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Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

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  • ozarknjrat
    Your JRTA GUAM was one of the inspirations for my River Rat mockup (see photo section). A few questions if you would be so kind: Am I correct that you used
    Message 1 of 28 , Jan 18, 2013
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      Your JRTA GUAM was one of the inspirations for my River Rat mockup (see photo section). A few questions if you would be so kind:

      Am I correct that you used glue & screw construction, or was there epoxy involved?

      What type and thickness of plywood did you use for the sides and bottom?

      Any fiberglass/epoxy coating on the hull?

      Seems you trimmed away the rear enclosure (head?) at some point, can you explain why?

      The roof seems transparent in some of the photos. Can you describe it's construction?

      John

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gravelyrider" wrote:
      >
      >
      > I modified Tennessee and proportionately shorted it to 24' keeping the beam at 6'.
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1198015615/pic/list
      >
      > We love the boat. Roomy, comfortable very light weight for easy trailering. 8 hp Yamaha gives an easy cruise of 7.5 mph and full throttle 9.8 mph. Self draining floors fore and aft keep you in the boat when tinkering at the ends . We lock thru while standing at the wheel, no scurrying across a deck for lock lines.
      >
      > It may not be what you have in mind, but it sure works for this old fart with bad back-knees-you name it.
      >
      > Bee sure to see pic 21 to get an idea of the comfort level.
      >
      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Kandul" wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Is anyone aware of any Bolger designs that mimic the rough size and style of
      > > the Elco 26 power boat? I am an aging fat guy with bad legs and I like the
      > > standing head room, fore hatch to stand in when handling anchor, big hatch
      > > to get on/off deck/cockpit, and wide open cockpit for folding deck chair and
      > > wine cooler with overhead cover. Regards, SSK
      > >
      >
    • Peter
      ... I ve looked them up. One is Liboo, Chapter 20 in 30 Odd Boats. It doesn t look anything like the Elco, but the design was meant to address some of the OPs
      Message 2 of 28 , Jan 19, 2013
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        > There are a couple in the early books that I don't see there.
        > One is a rough water boat designed for an 80-year-old customer,
        > and the other is a cruising boat about 26' drawn for a design contest.

        I've looked them up.

        One is Liboo, Chapter 20 in 30 Odd Boats. It doesn't look anything like the Elco, but the design was meant to address some of the OPs concerns.

        The other is the Economy Motorsailer in Folding Schooner. You can forget the motorsailer part; that was an add-on. The basic boat is pretty nice-looking semi-displacement cruiser with a nice interior. It would be a bigger building job than one of the plywood boats, and perhaps a simpler boat like Tennessee would serve better anyway.

        Just incidentally, one of the drawings for the EM, design 282 was published in the book in the preceding chapter on Moccasin.

        Peter
      • John Boy
        You know the original plans are available. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/wf/elco/index.htm John Boy   I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
        Message 3 of 28 , Jan 19, 2013
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          You know the original plans are available.
          http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/wf/elco/index.htm
          John Boy
           



          “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 
          Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island


          From: Peter <pvanderwaart@...>
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 8:43 AM
          Subject: [bolger] Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

           
          > There are a couple in the early books that I don't see there.
          > One is a rough water boat designed for an 80-year-old customer,
          > and the other is a cruising boat about 26' drawn for a design contest.

          I've looked them up.

          One is Liboo, Chapter 20 in 30 Odd Boats. It doesn't look anything like the Elco, but the design was meant to address some of the OPs concerns.

          The other is the Economy Motorsailer in Folding Schooner. You can forget the motorsailer part; that was an add-on. The basic boat is pretty nice-looking semi-displacement cruiser with a nice interior. It would be a bigger building job than one of the plywood boats, and perhaps a simpler boat like Tennessee would serve better anyway.

          Just incidentally, one of the drawings for the EM, design 282 was published in the book in the preceding chapter on Moccasin.

          Peter



        • Stephen Kandul
          John Boy, Yes, I know the original plans are still on the market. Two factors motivated me to ask the question to the group. One.I live in an area where
          Message 4 of 28 , Jan 19, 2013
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            John Boy,

             

            Yes, I know the original plans are still on the market.  Two factors motivated me to ask the question to the group.  One…I live in an area where there are no traditional wooden boat builders who would build an Elco to the standards of past decades.  And I am probably past the point where I could successfully do it myself.  Two….If there is a Bolger design (or other of more recent origin) it will probably be more easily constructed, one off, and more in tune with presently available materials and methods.  So my chances of having a more modern design built locally here in the Coastal Empire of Georgia would be better. 

             

            If I had about $100K to devote to the project I could have an Elco built in the NE and shipped to me.  I saw a rather nice job of similar size, but different design, that cost that much a couple years ago on the coast at Cresent.  The guy who ran the marina there told me it was built in Maine to order for a millionaire who would keep it in covered storage when he was not in the area to use it.  It was one of five or six boats he had built and pre-positioned around the world for vacations….  All I could say is that it must be nice…!

             

            Regards, SSK

             

            P.S. Thank you to all who responded with some interesting suggestions for me to consider in answer to my question.

             

             

            Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

            Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:15 am (PST) . Posted by:

            "John Boy" t1ro2003

            You know the original plans are available.
            http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/wf/elco/index.htm

            John Boy
             

            I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

            “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

            Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island

          • Matthew Long
            I d like to make a plug for a the stock Tennessee with a folding or fixed canvas top over the cockpit. It would not look at all like an Elco, but it s a
            Message 5 of 28 , Jan 19, 2013
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              I'd like to make a plug for a the stock Tennessee with a folding or fixed canvas top over the cockpit.  It would not look at all like an Elco, but it's a fantastic design for the kind of inland pleasure cruising you have in mind.  It's inexpensive and easy to build, a modest four-stroke outboard (9.9-15 hp) will push it quietly at 10 knots, you have room for a little galley, head and berths to seat four or sleep two and more could camp in the cockpit just by adding side panels to the canopy.  It's light enough to be pulled by an ordinary car, despite the long length.  A little attention to detail in the shape of the ports, a mix of painted and varnished surfaces, etc. will give it a nice period look.  Personally, it's one of my favorites.

              <http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/tenn4.jpg>
            • Wayne Gilham
              Idaho. great cabin , it s all-view. Forward and aft cockpit. Designed for Bernie Wolfard, who was wheelchair-bound, thus NO PROBLEM to move about. snipping
              Message 6 of 28 , Jan 19, 2013
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                Idaho.

                 

                great cabin , it's all-view.  Forward and aft cockpit.  Designed for Bernie Wolfard, who was wheelchair-bound, thus NO PROBLEM to move about.

                 

                "snipping" from prior posts of others here, about this boat:

                 

                here is what PCB writes:

                Tennessee is lighter, cheaper in materials, quicker to build, and more efficient with low power (ten horsepower is ample and as much as she can efficiently use).  Idaho is stronger, faster with more power, and has more useful space as designed.  They are about equally capable in rough water.  neither is  properly called seaworthy, defined as "having the ability to keep the sea in all weather with reasonable safety."  In either you should expect to exercize prudence as to weather in the Bay!

                 

                and from others: 

                 

                TN is a displacement hull, designed for low power and low speeds. 10-15 HP

                gives 10-12 mph max, cruise at 8  mph. Putting a bigger engine on TN won't

                make it go much faster, it would just make bigger waves.

                 

                ID is a planing hull, designed to operate at higher speeds given adequate

                horsepower. 25-35 HP gives 20+ mph. ID should cruise at a higher speed than

                TN, maybe 12 mph.

                 

                 

                For those who are incredulous about this boat's reported smoothness in a chop, see this YouTube video from one launched in Argentina -- go to minute 2:00 thru 2:54 for shots of her cruising so un-ruffled in a good chop... amazing!     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vox3gnHtAE4

                 

                Regards,

                Wayne Gilham

                who hasn't yet committed to building one of these, but sure is tempted....

                 

                 

                 

                 

                 

                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Kandul
                Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 11:23 AM
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [bolger] Elco 26 Imitation??

                 

                 

                Is anyone aware of any Bolger designs that mimic the rough size and style of the Elco 26 power boat?  I am an aging fat guy with bad legs and I like the standing head room, fore hatch to stand in when handling anchor, big hatch to get on/off deck/cockpit, and wide open cockpit for folding deck chair and wine cooler with overhead cover.  Regards, SSK

              • daschultz8275@sbcglobal.net
                IMO Jim Michalak would be a good choice to commission to design something similar that would be an EZ plywood build. It would likely be based on the AF-4
                Message 7 of 28 , Jan 20, 2013
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                  IMO Jim Michalak would be a good choice to commission to design something similar that would be an EZ plywood build. It would likely be based on the AF-4 Casa, or AF-4G.

                  Don
                • phil.bolger
                  I doubt I ll ever get used to folks selling other folks design-services and designs in this particular forum... Yoh, Schultz, what do you think of the recent
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jan 20, 2013
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                    I doubt I'll ever get used to folks selling other folks' design-services and designs in this particular forum...

                    Yoh, Schultz, what do you think of the recent installments in MAIB ?
                     
                    Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:43 PM
                    Subject: [bolger] Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

                     


                    IMO Jim Michalak would be a good choice to commission to design something similar that would be an EZ plywood build. It would likely be based on the AF-4 Casa, or AF-4G.

                    Don

                  • Bill Kreamer
                    Susanne you may take it as an indication of just how popular, inclusive, indispensable and vital this forum has become. We look up to you. Hope that helps
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jan 20, 2013
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                      Susanne you may take it as an indication of just how popular, inclusive, indispensable and vital this forum has become. We look up to you. Hope that helps some...


                      From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philbolger@...
                      Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:48 PM
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

                       

                      I doubt I'll ever get used to folks selling other folks' design-services and designs in this particular forum...

                      Yoh, Schultz, what do you think of the recent installments in MAIB ?
                       
                      Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:43 PM
                      Subject: [bolger] Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

                       


                      IMO Jim Michalak would be a good choice to commission to design something similar that would be an EZ plywood build. It would likely be based on the AF-4 Casa, or AF-4G.

                      Don

                    • phil.bolger
                      That may be a more sensible response than mine... Susanne Altenburger, PB&F ... From: Bill Kreamer To: bolger@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jan 20, 2013
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                        That may be a more sensible response than mine...
                        Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:03 PM
                        Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

                         

                        Susanne you may take it as an indication of just how popular, inclusive, indispensable and vital this forum has become. We look up to you. Hope that helps some...


                        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philbolger@...
                        Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:48 PM
                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

                         

                        I doubt I'll ever get used to folks selling other folks' design-services and designs in this particular forum...

                        Yoh, Schultz, what do you think of the recent installments in MAIB ?
                         
                        Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:43 PM
                        Subject: [bolger] Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

                         


                        IMO Jim Michalak would be a good choice to commission to design something similar that would be an EZ plywood build. It would likely be based on the AF-4 Casa, or AF-4G.

                        Don

                      • Matthew Long
                        Honestly, Susanne, I would take it as form of flattery. Jim Michalak s designs have long been part of this discussion group--a quick search shows over 2,400
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jan 20, 2013
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                          Honestly, Susanne, I would take it as form of flattery. Jim Michalak's designs have long been part of this discussion group--a quick search shows over 2,400 messages mentioning "Michalak" going back to 1999.

                          Jim has taken on a few of Phil's many innovations--in this case the developed plywood sheet small boat, the Birdwatcher cabin and a fondness for lug sails--and continued to riff on those chords for quite a few years now, developing a stable of designs to fill a wide range of amateur builder needs. Jim would be the first to admit that he builds on the Bolger/Payson instant boat legacy and, I would add, with a touch of his own creativity.

                          I think that most of us consider Jim to be a Bolger "disciple," a tribute to Phil's lasting influence on amateur building and small boat design.

                          Cheers from Nairobi,

                          Matthew

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
                          >
                          > I doubt I'll ever get used to folks selling other folks' design-services and designs in this particular forum...
                          >
                          > Yoh, Schultz, what do you think of the recent installments in MAIB ?
                          >
                          > Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                        • Peter
                          ... I m not Schultz, but while I was looking up a couple of the older designs to suggest, I did wonder if an adaptation of the Robin Jean model would fit the
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jan 21, 2013
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                            > Yoh, Schultz, what do you think of the recent installments in MAIB ?

                            I'm not Schultz, but while I was looking up a couple of the older designs to suggest, I did wonder if an adaptation of the Robin Jean model would fit the bill. It seems to be about the same size, and would be more stable platform than the Elco.

                            I remember seeing a boat of the Elco type in Long Island Sound a few year ago. It was a breezy day with significant chop, though I don't remember how much. I was struck by how much the boat rolled and although she looked great, she also looked uncomfortable.

                            Peter
                          • captainrocky99
                            Would you recommend Ford on the Chevy site or try to tout Coke on the Pepsi site ? Nothing against an imitator but this IS a Bolger site. Sues response was a
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jan 21, 2013
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                              Would you recommend Ford on the Chevy site or try to tout Coke on the Pepsi site ? Nothing against an imitator but this IS a Bolger site. Sues response was a lot milder than mine would have been. Nice restraint Sue! Capt. Rocky

                              From: "Matthew Long" <owlnmole@gmail.com>
                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:47:30 AM
                              Subject: [bolger] Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

                               

                              Honestly, Susanne, I would take it as form of flattery. Jim Michalak's designs have long been part of this discussion group--a quick search shows over 2,400 messages mentioning "Michalak" going back to 1999.

                              Jim has taken on a few of Phil's many innovations--in this case the developed plywood sheet small boat, the Birdwatcher cabin and a fondness for lug sails--and continued to riff on those chords for quite a few years now, developing a stable of designs to fill a wide range of amateur builder needs. Jim would be the first to admit that he builds on the Bolger/Payson instant boat legacy and, I would add, with a touch of his own creativity.

                              I think that most of us consider Jim to be a Bolger "disciple," a tribute to Phil's lasting influence on amateur building and small boat design.

                              Cheers from Nairobi,

                              Matthew

                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
                              >
                              > I doubt I'll ever get used to folks selling other folks' design-services and designs in this particular forum...
                              >
                              > Yoh, Schultz, what do you think of the recent installments in MAIB ?
                              >
                              > Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

                            • phil.bolger
                              I appreciate the diplomatic angle , Matthew. Continuing the MAIB design-column is in part intended to let it be known to those who did not notice my work
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jan 21, 2013
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                                I appreciate the 'diplomatic angle', Matthew.

                                Continuing the MAIB design-column is in part intended to let it be known to those who did not notice my work during Phil's and my collaboration across 15 years that this office is gradually easing back into design-work again.  Lot's to be done.  Including many 'left-overs' from the more tragic times. 

                                Susanne Altenburger, PB&F 
                                   
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:47 AM
                                Subject: [bolger] Re: Elco 26 Imitation??

                                 

                                Honestly, Susanne, I would take it as form of flattery. Jim Michalak's designs have long been part of this discussion group--a quick search shows over 2,400 messages mentioning "Michalak" going back to 1999.

                                Jim has taken on a few of Phil's many innovations--in this case the developed plywood sheet small boat, the Birdwatcher cabin and a fondness for lug sails--and continued to riff on those chords for quite a few years now, developing a stable of designs to fill a wide range of amateur builder needs. Jim would be the first to admit that he builds on the Bolger/Payson instant boat legacy and, I would add, with a touch of his own creativity.

                                I think that most of us consider Jim to be a Bolger "disciple," a tribute to Phil's lasting influence on amateur building and small boat design.

                                Cheers from Nairobi,

                                Matthew

                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
                                >
                                > I doubt I'll ever get used to folks selling other folks' design-services and designs in this particular forum...
                                >
                                > Yoh, Schultz, what do you think of the recent installments in MAIB ?
                                >
                                > Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

                              • Matthew Long
                                I guess we ll have to agree to disagree there, Rocky. PCB was never afraid to acknowledge the influence of other designers or even point a potential client to
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jan 22, 2013
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                                  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there, Rocky. PCB was never afraid to acknowledge the influence of other designers or even point a potential client to another designer if that would be better match. He often acknowledged other designers in his work. IIRC, he mentioned Jim Michalak in BWAOM as the consulting engineer on the mast of his big steel leeboard sharpie motorsailer for Pacific island commerce. Like I said, this group has long included Jim's work in it's discussions. Cheers, Matthew

                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, captainrocky@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Would you recommend Ford on the Chevy site or try to tout Coke on the Pepsi site ? Nothing against an imitator but this IS a Bolger site. Sues response was a lot milder than mine would have been. Nice restraint Sue! Capt. Rocky
                                • Gregory
                                  The Bolger group is in fact all inclusive for boating and boatbuilding - especially Bolger and Bolger-inspired. Any on-topic within that range is fair game.
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jan 23, 2013
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                                    The Bolger group is in fact all inclusive for boating and boatbuilding - especially Bolger and Bolger-inspired. Any "on-topic" within that range is fair game. The goal is to build more boats and promote and propagate PCB's and SA's boats, plans, and ideas or even extrapolations.

                                    Here's the group home page at http://groups.yahoo.com/group

                                    }Description
                                    }Discussing and building Philip C. Bolger's (1927-2009) boat designs }and similar.
                                    }
                                    }This is a spam-free, on topic group - pretty much anything boating, }design, or boat-building related is fair game. Please don't repost }Spam. Spammers and flamers will be bounced off.

                                    BTW, who here still dates back to Chris Noto's listserver from the 90's? Anyone?

                                    Anyone wishing to discuss list mechanics/politics are welcome to email me off-list. Otherwise, everyone's welcome here.

                                    Gregg Carlson/Moderator


                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Long" wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there, Rocky. PCB was never afraid to acknowledge the influence of other designers or even point a potential client to another designer if that would be better match. He often acknowledged other designers in his work. IIRC, he mentioned Jim Michalak in BWAOM as the consulting engineer on the mast of his big steel leeboard sharpie motorsailer for Pacific island commerce. Like I said, this group has long included Jim's work in it's discussions. Cheers, Matthew
                                    >
                                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, captainrocky@ wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Would you recommend Ford on the Chevy site or try to tout Coke on the Pepsi site ? Nothing against an imitator but this IS a Bolger site. Sues response was a lot milder than mine would have been. Nice restraint Sue! Capt. Rocky
                                    >
                                  • John Kohnen
                                    Me! I ve been here just about forever... ... -- John (jkohnen@boat-links.com) His heart was bound in oak and triple brass who first committed a fragile bark to
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jan 23, 2013
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                                      Me! I've been here just about forever...

                                      On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:26:31 -0800, Gregg wrote:

                                      > The Bolger group is in fact all inclusive for boating and boatbuilding -
                                      > especially Bolger and Bolger-inspired. Any "on-topic" within that range
                                      > is fair game. The goal is to build more boats and promote and propagate
                                      > PCB's and SA's boats, plans, and ideas or even extrapolations.
                                      > ...
                                      > BTW, who here still dates back to Chris Noto's listserver from the 90's?
                                      > Anyone?
                                      > ...

                                      --
                                      John (jkohnen@...)
                                      His heart was bound in oak and triple brass who first committed
                                      a fragile bark to the raging sea... (Horace)
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