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Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

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  • Mike Graf
    Great info from John(as usual) Douglas fir is the original marine ply before we started shipping in from all over the world. Roseburg would be foolish tell
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
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      Great info from John(as usual)   Douglas fir is the original marine ply before we started shipping in from all over the world. Roseburg would be foolish  tell you to buy a product with lower profit margin. Marine today means "charge me more" doesn't it? DG not only rot resistant but pretty light. The yellow pine ply on the east coast is rot resistant(and real tough) but heavy
      All company's do what they call multi marketing....sell the same product(under different labels) to different markets
      High quality marine ply's provide a perfect finish...........and then most people cover it w/epoxy and glass???

      On 12/23/2012 03:01 PM, Tim Jennings wrote:
       
      This topic has been discussed many times on other forums, with no clear answer, as it seems to depend on one's situation.  I've asked Roseburg via e-mail what is the difference bewteen thier sanded exterior grade panels and their marine plys, but have never gotten an answer.  The web site specs for both are indentical, though the price for the marine is double the cost of the sanded exterior.  Maybe the only difference is that one is stamped "marine?" 
       
      If a plywood is made with waterprool glue and has no voids or repairs, and one is going to thoroughly coat the ply with several coats of resin and glass, why not use it? 
       
      Tim Jennings
      Enfield, NH 
       
      On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Dennis Mcfadden <dennis-mcfadden@...> wrote:
       

      I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
       
      Dennis
       
      > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      > From: jhkohnen@...
      > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
      > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
      >
      > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
      > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
      > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
      > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
      > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
      > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
      > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
      > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
      > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
      > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
      > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
      > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
      > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
      > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
      > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
      > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
      > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
      > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
      > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
      > probably be plenty durable enough.
      >
      > http://www.roseburg.com/
      >
      > The Coots group:
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
      >
      > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
      >
      > --
      > John (jkohnen@...)
      > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
      > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Bolger rules!!!
      > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
      > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
      > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
      > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
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      --
      Tim Jennings
      Director of Facilities
      Cardigan Mountain School
      62 Alumni Drive
      Canaan, NH 03741
      Phone: (603)523-3536
      Cell:     (603)443-0279
      Fax:     (603)523-3550
      Home:  (603)632-
      Email:   tjennings@...
      WWW: http://www.cardigan.org

    • Wayne Gilham
      Checking of plywood is not necessarily a recent phenom... my Black Skimmer, built in Maine way back in the 70 s as far as I can determine, had some panels
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
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        Checking of plywood is not necessarily a "recent" phenom...  my Black Skimmer, built in Maine way back in the '70's as far as I can determine, had some panels that were checking vigorously, some not so much by this century.  (subsequently have sold the BS, hope the next owner really DOES put cloth and resin over the checking panels...)  Sorry, do not know if this was built of FIR or east-coast plywood.

         

        Another little runabout I built back in the '60's (here in Pacific NW) used MDO = fir ply, virtually void-less, with a paper-coating applied by the factory, stuck-on with same (or similar) phenol glues, I believe... THAT surface, without epoxy, without glass-sheathing except at joints, "held" the marine-enamel without ANY checking for as long as I kept track of that boat, some 6-8 years...  MDO would be my choice to this day (only wish the mills would make 1/4" MDO, but no call for it from sign-makers (the product's biggest market) as 1/4" is too "floppy" for free-standing highway signs, etc -- 3/8" is the thinnest I've ever found....)

         

        Wayne Gilham

         

        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Mcfadden
        Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:21 PM
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

         

         

        I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
         
        Dennis
         

        > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com

        > From: jhkohnen@...
        > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
        > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
        >
        > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
        > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
        > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
        > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
        > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
        > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
        > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
        > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
        > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
        > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
        > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
        > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
        > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
        > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
        > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
        > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
        > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
        > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
        > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
        > probably be plenty durable enough.
        >
        > http://www.roseburg.com/
        >
        > The Coots group:
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
        >
        > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
        >
        > --
        > John (jkohnen@...)
        > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
        > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
        >
        > <*> Your email settings:
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        >
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        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/join
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        >
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        > bolger-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
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        >
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        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >

      • philbolger@comcast.net
        Just about all (recent) Doug.Fir seems prone to checking, and misbehaves most likely around footballs , present even on most A -surfaces I ve run across.
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
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          Just about all (recent) Doug.Fir seems prone to checking, and misbehaves most likely around 'footballs', present even on most 'A'-surfaces I've run across.  Ergo always glass-cloth set in epoxy on all outside Doug Fir surfaces - which in this project meant rebuilding all pieces on a table, if at possible, all the way to first layers of paint.  On working-type SACPAS-3 we went with two layers of 10oz cloth on the hull proper and single layer on house and roof and everywhere 'outside', including the really tedious areas and corners.  Doing most of the finishing work on tables allows decent finish faster without 'hanging upside-down' heart-breaking exertions.  Seams require rigorous policy to not have things 'move' over time.

          Susanne Altenburger, PB&F 
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Mike Graf
          Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:42 AM
          Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

           

          Great info from John(as usual)   Douglas fir is the original marine ply before we started shipping in from all over the world. Roseburg would be foolish  tell you to buy a product with lower profit margin. Marine today means "charge me more" doesn't it? DG not only rot resistant but pretty light. The yellow pine ply on the east coast is rot resistant(and real tough) but heavy
          All company's do what they call multi marketing....sell the same product(under different labels) to different markets
          High quality marine ply's provide a perfect finish...........and then most people cover it w/epoxy and glass???

          On 12/23/2012 03:01 PM, Tim Jennings wrote:
           
          This topic has been discussed many times on other forums, with no clear answer, as it seems to depend on one's situation.  I've asked Roseburg via e-mail what is the difference bewteen thier sanded exterior grade panels and their marine plys, but have never gotten an answer.  The web site specs for both are indentical, though the price for the marine is double the cost of the sanded exterior.  Maybe the only difference is that one is stamped "marine?" 
           
          If a plywood is made with waterprool glue and has no voids or repairs, and one is going to thoroughly coat the ply with several coats of resin and glass, why not use it? 
           
          Tim Jennings
          Enfield, NH 
           
          On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Dennis Mcfadden <dennis-mcfadden@...> wrote:
           

          I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
           
          Dennis
           
          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          > From: jhkohnen@...
          > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
          > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
          >
          > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
          > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
          > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
          > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
          > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
          > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
          > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
          > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
          > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
          > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
          > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
          > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
          > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
          > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
          > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
          > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
          > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
          > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
          > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
          > probably be plenty durable enough.
          >
          > http://www.roseburg.com/
          >
          > The Coots group:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
          >
          > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
          >
          > --
          > John (jkohnen@...)
          > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
          > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
          > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
          > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
          > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
          >
          > <*> Your email settings:
          > Individual Email | Traditional
          >
          > <*> To change settings online go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/join
          > (Yahoo! ID required)
          >
          > <*> To change settings via email:
          > bolger-digest@yahoogroups.com
          > bolger-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >



          --
          Tim Jennings
          Director of Facilities
          Cardigan Mountain School
          62 Alumni Drive
          Canaan, NH 03741
          Phone: (603)523-3536
          Cell:     (603)443-0279
          Fax:     (603)523-3550
          Home:  (603)632-
          Email:   tjennings@...
          WWW: http://www.cardigan.org

      • philbolger@comcast.net
        That question re-crossed my mind just now. My concern is on all joints having paper between the wood - or will just machining it off in those limited areas do
        Message 4 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
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          That question re-crossed my mind just now.  My concern is on all joints having paper between the wood - or will just machining it off in those limited areas do the job ? 

          How does epoxy and glass-cloth over MDO-paper work long-term on a hull-surface (vs. house and interior) ?

          Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:49 PM
          Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"? (fir-ply checking - MDO as solution?)

           

          Checking of plywood is not necessarily a "recent" phenom...  my Black Skimmer, built in Maine way back in the '70's as far as I can determine, had some panels that were checking vigorously, some not so much by this century.  (subsequently have sold the BS, hope the next owner really DOES put cloth and resin over the checking panels...)  Sorry, do not know if this was built of FIR or east-coast plywood.

          Another little runabout I built back in the '60's (here in Pacific NW) used MDO = fir ply, virtually void-less, with a paper-coating applied by the factory, stuck-on with same (or similar) phenol glues, I believe... THAT surface, without epoxy, without glass-sheathing except at joints, "held" the marine-enamel without ANY checking for as long as I kept track of that boat, some 6-8 years...  MDO would be my choice to this day (only wish the mills would make 1/4" MDO, but no call for it from sign-makers (the product's biggest market) as 1/4" is too "floppy" for free-standing highway signs, etc -- 3/8" is the thinnest I've ever found....)

          Wayne Gilham

          From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Mcfadden
          Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:21 PM
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

           

          I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
           
          Dennis
           

          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          > From: jhkohnen@...
          > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
          > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
          >
          > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
          > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
          > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
          > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
          > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
          > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
          > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
          > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
          > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
          > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
          > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
          > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
          > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
          > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
          > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
          > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
          > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
          > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
          > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
          > probably be plenty durable enough.
          >
          > http://www.roseburg.com/
          >
          > The Coots group:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
          >
          > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
          >
          > --
          > John (jkohnen@...)
          > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
          > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
          > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
          > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
          > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
          >
          > <*> Your email settings:
          > Individual Email | Traditional
          >
          > <*> To change settings online go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/join
          > (Yahoo! ID required)
          >
          > <*> To change settings via email:
          > bolger-digest@yahoogroups.com
          > bolger-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >

        • philbolger@comcast.net
          Prebuilding that it - with a p - all to avoid Rebuilding anytime soon... Susanne Altenburger, PB&F ... From: philbolger@comcast.net To:
          Message 5 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            'Prebuilding' that it - with a p - all to avoid 'Rebuilding' anytime soon...

            Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:55 PM
            Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"? (fir-ply checking - MDO as solution?)

            That question re-crossed my mind just now.  My concern is on all joints having paper between the wood - or will just machining it off in those limited areas do the job ? 

            How does epoxy and glass-cloth over MDO-paper work long-term on a hull-surface (vs. house and interior) ?

            Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:49 PM
            Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"? (fir-ply checking - MDO as solution?)

             

            Checking of plywood is not necessarily a "recent" phenom...  my Black Skimmer, built in Maine way back in the '70's as far as I can determine, had some panels that were checking vigorously, some not so much by this century.  (subsequently have sold the BS, hope the next owner really DOES put cloth and resin over the checking panels...)  Sorry, do not know if this was built of FIR or east-coast plywood.

            Another little runabout I built back in the '60's (here in Pacific NW) used MDO = fir ply, virtually void-less, with a paper-coating applied by the factory, stuck-on with same (or similar) phenol glues, I believe... THAT surface, without epoxy, without glass-sheathing except at joints, "held" the marine-enamel without ANY checking for as long as I kept track of that boat, some 6-8 years...  MDO would be my choice to this day (only wish the mills would make 1/4" MDO, but no call for it from sign-makers (the product's biggest market) as 1/4" is too "floppy" for free-standing highway signs, etc -- 3/8" is the thinnest I've ever found....)

            Wayne Gilham

            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Mcfadden
            Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:21 PM
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

             

            I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
             
            Dennis
             

            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            > From: jhkohnen@...
            > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
            > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
            >
            > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
            > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
            > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
            > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
            > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
            > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
            > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
            > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
            > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
            > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
            > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
            > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
            > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
            > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
            > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
            > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
            > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
            > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
            > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
            > probably be plenty durable enough.
            >
            > http://www.roseburg.com/
            >
            > The Coots group:
            >
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
            >
            > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
            >
            > --
            > John (jkohnen@...)
            > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
            > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Bolger rules!!!
            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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            >

          • welshman@ptialaska.net
            Where are you getting MDO these days? And what brand ? HJ Checking of plywood is not necessarily a recent phenom... my Black Skimmer,
            Message 6 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
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              Where are you getting MDO these days? And what "brand"?

              HJ

              Checking of plywood is not necessarily a "recent" phenom... my Black Skimmer,
              > built in Maine way
              > back in the '70's as far as I can determine, had some panels that were checking
              > vigorously, some not
              > so much by this century. (subsequently have sold the BS, hope the next owner
              > really DOES put cloth
              > and resin over the checking panels...) Sorry, do not know if this was built of FIR
              > or east-coast
              > plywood.
              >
              >
              >
              > Another little runabout I built back in the '60's (here in Pacific NW) used MDO =
              > fir ply, virtually
              > void-less, with a paper-coating applied by the factory, stuck-on with same (or
              > similar) phenol
              > glues, I believe... THAT surface, without epoxy, without glass-sheathing except at
              > joints, "held"
              > the marine-enamel without ANY checking for as long as I kept track of that boat,
              > some 6-8 years...
              > MDO would be my choice to this day (only wish the mills would make 1/4" MDO, but no
              > call for it from
              > sign-makers (the product's biggest market) as 1/4" is too "floppy" for
              > free-standing highway signs,
              > etc -- 3/8" is the thinnest I've ever found....)
              >
              >
              >
              > Wayne Gilham
              >
              >
              >
              > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
              > Mcfadden
              > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:21 PM
              > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown,
              > purchased in
              > Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a
              > polyurethane (I think).
              > The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the
              > black glue between
              > layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully
              > prevent further
              > checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
              >
              > Dennis
              >
              >
              >> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              >> From: jhkohnen@...
              >> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
              >> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
              >>
              >> Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
              >> Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
              >> plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
              >> remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
              >> road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
              >> putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
              >> seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
              >> marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
              >> the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
              >> about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
              >> "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
              >> few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
              >> face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
              >> you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
              >> than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
              >> peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
              >> life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
              >> there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
              >> fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
              >> probably be plenty durable enough.
              >>
              >> http://www.roseburg.com/
              >>
              >> The Coots group:
              >>
              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
              >>
              >> My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
              >>
              >> --
              >> John (jkohnen@...)
              >> Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
              >> tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> Bolger rules!!!
              >> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
              >> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
              >> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
              >> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
              >> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
              >> 282-1349
              >> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups
              >> Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • John Kohnen
              If you worry about the paper overlay of MDO you should worry about the veneers coming apart too. ;o) The overlay is impregnated with the same goo that holds
              Message 7 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                If you worry about the "paper" overlay of MDO you should worry about the
                veneers coming apart too. ;o) The overlay is impregnated with the same goo
                that holds the plywood together. It soaks up epoxy, and joints to it are
                as strong as joints to bare plywood.

                Sheathing MDO with fiberglass is a waste, though it'll work fine. You can
                get MDO that's only got the overlay on one side, and then put the bare
                side out where you need sheathing. MDO is usually just painted.

                MDO is just the name of a type of plywood, there are different grades of
                it, and the quality can differ between manufacturers. Oly Panel (formerly
                Simpson) in Shelton, Wash. makes a couple of good MDOs, their Signal and
                Crezon. A friend of mine built a Kayleigh out of Crezon MDO and it's
                holding up well:

                http://www.olypanel.com/

                Some of the last makers of lapstrake runabouts use(d?) MDO for the planks.

                On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 09:55:25 -0800, Susanne wrote:

                > That question re-crossed my mind just now. My concern is on all joints
                > having paper between the wood - or will just machining it off in those
                > limited areas do the job ?
                >
                > How does epoxy and glass-cloth over MDO-paper work long-term on a
                > hull-surface (vs. house and interior) ?
                > ...

                --
                John (jkohnen@...)
                Nothing is really work unless you would rather be doing
                something else. (Sir James Barrie)
              • RSS
                On my first plywood boat I fell for the myth that simply coating it with epoxy would keep it from checking. Huh! After that I glass everything. Hull,
                Message 8 of 21 , Dec 25, 2012
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                  On my first plywood boat I fell for the myth that simply coating it with epoxy would keep it from checking. Huh! After that I glass everything. Hull, superstructure, everything. No more problems. It may cost more to start with, but the reduced maintenance is worth it to me as I am not one of those people who love working on the boat more than being out using it! I love building, but the maintenance after,not! At this point in life I am wishing I had an all aluminum boat so I could totally ignore everything.
                  Bob


                  >
                  >
                  > I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in
                  > Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think).
                  > The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between
                  > layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further
                  > checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
                  >
                  > Dennis
                  >
                  >
                  > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  > > From: jhkohnen@...
                  > > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
                  > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                  > >
                  > > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                  > > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                  > > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                  > > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                  > > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                  > > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                  > > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                  > > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                  > > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                  > > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                  > > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                  > > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                  > > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                  > > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                  > > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                  > > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                  > > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                  > > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                  > > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                  > > probably be plenty durable enough.
                  > >
                  > > http://www.roseburg.com/
                  > >
                  > > The Coots group:
                  > >
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
                  > >
                  > > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > John (jkohnen@...)
                  > > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                  > > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Bolger rules!!!
                  > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                  > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                  > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
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