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Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

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  • Douglas Pollard
    I agree when you are building very small square sharpies. Still at some point many will get up into the bigger 20 ft and bigger boats with fairly fine lines.
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 21, 2012
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        I agree when you are building very small square sharpies.  Still at some point many will get up into the bigger 20 ft and bigger boats with fairly fine lines. I gave my Elver as an example. Those boats are selling for several thousand dollars used.  Mine has cheap plywood in her and I will have to tell a buy that, if I sell her.  No I likely would not get the price of the wood out of her but I would likely get a better price.  She has really fine dacron sails  a really good galvanized trailer.  So the truth is the sails and trailor are the only things worth selling and I have had the pleasure of building a boat that has very little value.  I could have bought some plywood and slapped a boat together. Somebody would buy it at some point and user her a little and let her rot because she is not worth anything.  If thats the case why did I build her?  I could have bought an old Megregor 21 for probably less money and sailed the heck out of her. A good boat built out of good wood might well with a little care might well last me 40 or 50 years.           Doug  
       



      On 12/21/2012 05:01 PM, Bill Howard wrote:
       

      AMEN!


      Boat building cost $$$$$$$
      Marine Plywood Cost $$$$$$
      Projected resale value:  $zero
      Having built a first-class boat:  PRICELESS


      On Dec 21, 2012, at 4:11 PM, christiancrandall wrote:

      The reasons are non-economic.



      -- 
                       Doug Pollard, 
            Sailor, Machinst, writer,artist 
                      Visit me at:
           
           http://sailboatsfairandfine.blogspot.com/
           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DObsRslyJJo
           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F5DiZASKPs
    • welshman@ptialaska.net
      Resale value would never occur to me in plywood choice. The difference in quality of wood and ease of use sure would. Modern AC plywood is just too crappy to
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 21, 2012
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        Resale value would never occur to me in plywood choice. The difference in quality
        of wood and ease of use sure would. Modern AC plywood is just too crappy to use on
        a boat that I am going to put in over 40 50 hrs of building. I have two gulls in
        the back yard, one built out of AC and one with marine oukume. That was the project
        that convinced me that cheap plywood cost too much. If I am going to invest all
        that time then I want a plywood I can trust not to come apart in 1-5 years.

        HJ
        >
        >
        > Oops, I was looking at half-sheet prices. The okoume would be about $90 a sheet, so
        > instead of $35/sheet total cost, it's $122.75/sheet total cost.
        >
        > It's a lot of money--enough to make the difference between building it at all. The
        > difference for, say, a Bolger Micro at 12 sheets would be $1,053.00 (in excess of
        > the cheaper plywood), and for a Michalak Frolic 2 (13 sheets), it would be an added
        > $1,140.00.
        >
        > Does anyone think that using a better quality plywood for these boats will increase
        > the resale value by over $1,000?
        >
        > There are reasons for choosing the best plywood for building these boats. The
        > reasons are non-economic.
        >
        > -Chris
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Now, ask me to pay three times the list price of nice plywood, when
        >> shipping is included. So a reasonable plywood sheet might cost me $35,
        >> and okoume might cost me $60, and so the difference seems small. But one
        >> of the cheaper shipping options is clcboats.com, they want $123 for
        >> shipping under 100 lbs. Since that's only 4 sheets of 6mm (1/4"), **each
        >> sheet** costs me $25 more for the wood, and $32.75 more for the
        >> shipping. So I'm paying close to $100 a sheet.
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
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      • Michael Seitz
        I suspect I wasn t clear in my original post.... The question is if the Roseburg Marine Plywood is any good (no voids, rot resistance etc). Yes, I don t want
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 22, 2012
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          I suspect I wasn't clear in my original post....

          The question is if the Roseburg "Marine Plywood" is any good (no voids,
          rot resistance etc).

          Yes, I don't want to gold plate a build if I don't have to. Are BS1088
          (or whatever) sheets the nicest? Sure, but they certainly can't be the
          only game in town. Much as we'd like to think that buying the most
          expensive sheet is the "best", I've heard horror stories of inferior
          sheets getting that vaunted production stamp. So, the question
          begs--what sheets (aside from the stamped ones) work? I know a lot of
          boats are built with other plywood sheets--I'm just asking about one
          brand (Roseburg).

          Thanks again.

          Michael Seitz
          Missoula MT
          ____________________________________________________________
          Woman is 53 But Looks 25
          Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
          http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50d5dd93edbce5d927913st03duc
        • Roger Padvorac
          Michael, There was a delayed reaction to my mind waking up. You might try asking the: The Oregon Coots Chapter of the Traditional Small Craft Association at
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 22, 2012
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            Michael,
            There was a delayed reaction to my mind waking up. You might try asking the:
            The Oregon Coots Chapter of the Traditional Small Craft Association
            Probably the best way to ask them is to join their discussion group. Its kind of funny that their discussion group (being centered in a valley with a mountain range between them and the sea) is far more active than the discussion group for the Puget Sound Chapter of TSCA.
             
            I make this suggestion because the Coots are located about 60 miles north of Roseburg and their local stores are more likely to be stocking plywood made near them. They are also likely to be aware of the challenges facing people who build small boats at home.
             
            Sincerely,
            Roger
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Michael Seitz" <mikefrommontana@...>
            Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 8:19 AM
            Subject: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

            >I suspect I wasn't clear in my original post....
            >
            >
            The question is if the Roseburg "Marine Plywood" is any good (no voids,
            >
            rot resistance etc).
            > ...  I know a lot of
            > boats are
            built with other plywood sheets--I'm just asking about one
            > brand
            (Roseburg).
            >
            > Thanks again.
            >
            > Michael
            Seitz
            > Missoula MT
            >
            ____________________________________________________________
            > Woman is 53
            But Looks 25
            > Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered
            doctors...
            >
            href="http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50d5dd93edbce5d927913st03duc">http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50d5dd93edbce5d927913st03duc
            >
            >
            >
            ------------------------------------
            >
            > Bolger rules!!!
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          • tom s
            My 1967 Grand Banks Woodie trawler is still going strong. built out of mahogany, oak and teak without any fiberglass except where I ve puttied the house and
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 22, 2012
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              My 1967 Grand Banks Woodie trawler is still going strong.  built out of mahogany, oak and teak without any fiberglass except where I've puttied the house and bulwarks.

              Well built wood boats will long outlast poorly built glass boats.

              Tom 

              Sent from my iPad

              On Dec 21, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:

               

                I agree when you are building very small square sharpies.  Still at some point many will get up into the bigger 20 ft and bigger boats with fairly fine lines. I gave my Elver as an example. Those boats are selling for several thousand dollars used.  Mine has cheap plywood in her and I will have to tell a buy that, if I sell her.  No I likely would not get the price of the wood out of her but I would likely get a better price.  She has really fine dacron sails  a really good galvanized trailer.  So the truth is the sails and trailor are the only things worth selling and I have had the pleasure of building a boat that has very little value.  I could have bought some plywood and slapped a boat together. Somebody would buy it at some point and user her a little and let her rot because she is not worth anything.  If thats the case why did I build her?  I could have bought an old Megregor 21 for probably less money and sailed the heck out of her. A good boat built out of good wood might well with a little care might well last me 40 or 50 years.           Doug  
               



              On 12/21/2012 05:01 PM, Bill Howard wrote:
               

              AMEN!


              Boat building cost $$$$$$$
              Marine Plywood Cost $$$$$$
              Projected resale value:  $zero
              Having built a first-class boat:  PRICELESS


              On Dec 21, 2012, at 4:11 PM, christiancrandall wrote:

              The reasons are non-economic.



              -- 
                               Doug Pollard, 
                    Sailor, Machinst, writer,artist 
                              Visit me at:
                   
                   http://sailboatsfairandfine.blogspot.com/
                   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DObsRslyJJo
                   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F5DiZASKPs

            • John Kohnen
              Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior plywood and it
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 22, 2012
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                Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                probably be plenty durable enough.

                http://www.roseburg.com/

                The Coots group:

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/

                My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)

                --
                John (jkohnen@...)
                Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
              • Dennis Mcfadden
                I m with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric,
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 22, 2012
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                  I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
                   
                  Dennis
                   
                  > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: jhkohnen@...
                  > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
                  > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                  >
                  > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                  > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                  > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                  > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                  > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                  > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                  > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                  > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                  > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                  > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                  > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                  > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                  > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                  > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                  > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                  > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                  > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                  > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                  > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                  > probably be plenty durable enough.
                  >
                  > http://www.roseburg.com/
                  >
                  > The Coots group:
                  >
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
                  >
                  > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
                  >
                  > --
                  > John (jkohnen@...)
                  > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                  > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Bolger rules!!!
                  > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                  > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                  > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
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                • Tim Jennings
                  This topic has been discussed many times on other forums, with no clear answer, as it seems to depend on one s situation. I ve asked Roseburg via e-mail what
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 23, 2012
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                    This topic has been discussed many times on other forums, with no clear answer, as it seems to depend on one's situation.  I've asked Roseburg via e-mail what is the difference bewteen thier sanded exterior grade panels and their marine plys, but have never gotten an answer.  The web site specs for both are indentical, though the price for the marine is double the cost of the sanded exterior.  Maybe the only difference is that one is stamped "marine?" 
                     
                    If a plywood is made with waterprool glue and has no voids or repairs, and one is going to thoroughly coat the ply with several coats of resin and glass, why not use it? 
                     
                    Tim Jennings
                    Enfield, NH 
                     
                    On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Dennis Mcfadden <dennis-mcfadden@...> wrote:
                     

                    I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
                     
                    Dennis
                     
                    > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: jhkohnen@...
                    > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
                    > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                    >
                    > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                    > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                    > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                    > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                    > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                    > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                    > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                    > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                    > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                    > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                    > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                    > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                    > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                    > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                    > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                    > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                    > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                    > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                    > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                    > probably be plenty durable enough.
                    >
                    > http://www.roseburg.com/
                    >
                    > The Coots group:
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
                    >
                    > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
                    >
                    > --
                    > John (jkohnen@...)
                    > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                    > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Bolger rules!!!
                    > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                    > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                    > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                    > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                    > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                    > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
                    >
                    > <*> Your email settings:
                    > Individual Email | Traditional
                    >
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                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/join
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                    --
                    Tim Jennings
                    Director of Facilities
                    Cardigan Mountain School
                    62 Alumni Drive
                    Canaan, NH 03741
                    Phone: (603)523-3536
                    Cell:     (603)443-0279
                    Fax:     (603)523-3550
                    Home:  (603)632-
                    Email:   tjennings@...
                    WWW: http://www.cardigan.org
                  • Mike Graf
                    Great info from John(as usual) Douglas fir is the original marine ply before we started shipping in from all over the world. Roseburg would be foolish tell
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
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                      Great info from John(as usual)   Douglas fir is the original marine ply before we started shipping in from all over the world. Roseburg would be foolish  tell you to buy a product with lower profit margin. Marine today means "charge me more" doesn't it? DG not only rot resistant but pretty light. The yellow pine ply on the east coast is rot resistant(and real tough) but heavy
                      All company's do what they call multi marketing....sell the same product(under different labels) to different markets
                      High quality marine ply's provide a perfect finish...........and then most people cover it w/epoxy and glass???

                      On 12/23/2012 03:01 PM, Tim Jennings wrote:
                       
                      This topic has been discussed many times on other forums, with no clear answer, as it seems to depend on one's situation.  I've asked Roseburg via e-mail what is the difference bewteen thier sanded exterior grade panels and their marine plys, but have never gotten an answer.  The web site specs for both are indentical, though the price for the marine is double the cost of the sanded exterior.  Maybe the only difference is that one is stamped "marine?" 
                       
                      If a plywood is made with waterprool glue and has no voids or repairs, and one is going to thoroughly coat the ply with several coats of resin and glass, why not use it? 
                       
                      Tim Jennings
                      Enfield, NH 
                       
                      On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Dennis Mcfadden <dennis-mcfadden@...> wrote:
                       

                      I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
                       
                      Dennis
                       
                      > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: jhkohnen@...
                      > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
                      > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                      >
                      > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                      > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                      > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                      > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                      > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                      > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                      > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                      > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                      > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                      > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                      > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                      > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                      > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                      > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                      > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                      > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                      > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                      > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                      > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                      > probably be plenty durable enough.
                      >
                      > http://www.roseburg.com/
                      >
                      > The Coots group:
                      >
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
                      >
                      > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
                      >
                      > --
                      > John (jkohnen@...)
                      > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                      > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Bolger rules!!!
                      > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                      > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                      > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                      > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
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                      --
                      Tim Jennings
                      Director of Facilities
                      Cardigan Mountain School
                      62 Alumni Drive
                      Canaan, NH 03741
                      Phone: (603)523-3536
                      Cell:     (603)443-0279
                      Fax:     (603)523-3550
                      Home:  (603)632-
                      Email:   tjennings@...
                      WWW: http://www.cardigan.org

                    • Wayne Gilham
                      Checking of plywood is not necessarily a recent phenom... my Black Skimmer, built in Maine way back in the 70 s as far as I can determine, had some panels
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Checking of plywood is not necessarily a "recent" phenom...  my Black Skimmer, built in Maine way back in the '70's as far as I can determine, had some panels that were checking vigorously, some not so much by this century.  (subsequently have sold the BS, hope the next owner really DOES put cloth and resin over the checking panels...)  Sorry, do not know if this was built of FIR or east-coast plywood.

                         

                        Another little runabout I built back in the '60's (here in Pacific NW) used MDO = fir ply, virtually void-less, with a paper-coating applied by the factory, stuck-on with same (or similar) phenol glues, I believe... THAT surface, without epoxy, without glass-sheathing except at joints, "held" the marine-enamel without ANY checking for as long as I kept track of that boat, some 6-8 years...  MDO would be my choice to this day (only wish the mills would make 1/4" MDO, but no call for it from sign-makers (the product's biggest market) as 1/4" is too "floppy" for free-standing highway signs, etc -- 3/8" is the thinnest I've ever found....)

                         

                        Wayne Gilham

                         

                        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Mcfadden
                        Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:21 PM
                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

                         

                         

                        I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
                         
                        Dennis
                         

                        > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com

                        > From: jhkohnen@...
                        > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
                        > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                        >
                        > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                        > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                        > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                        > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                        > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                        > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                        > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                        > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                        > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                        > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                        > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                        > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                        > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                        > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                        > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                        > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                        > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                        > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                        > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                        > probably be plenty durable enough.
                        >
                        > http://www.roseburg.com/
                        >
                        > The Coots group:
                        >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
                        >
                        > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
                        >
                        > --
                        > John (jkohnen@...)
                        > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                        > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Bolger rules!!!
                        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
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                        >
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                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >

                      • philbolger@comcast.net
                        Just about all (recent) Doug.Fir seems prone to checking, and misbehaves most likely around footballs , present even on most A -surfaces I ve run across.
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Just about all (recent) Doug.Fir seems prone to checking, and misbehaves most likely around 'footballs', present even on most 'A'-surfaces I've run across.  Ergo always glass-cloth set in epoxy on all outside Doug Fir surfaces - which in this project meant rebuilding all pieces on a table, if at possible, all the way to first layers of paint.  On working-type SACPAS-3 we went with two layers of 10oz cloth on the hull proper and single layer on house and roof and everywhere 'outside', including the really tedious areas and corners.  Doing most of the finishing work on tables allows decent finish faster without 'hanging upside-down' heart-breaking exertions.  Seams require rigorous policy to not have things 'move' over time.

                          Susanne Altenburger, PB&F 
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Mike Graf
                          Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:42 AM
                          Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

                           

                          Great info from John(as usual)   Douglas fir is the original marine ply before we started shipping in from all over the world. Roseburg would be foolish  tell you to buy a product with lower profit margin. Marine today means "charge me more" doesn't it? DG not only rot resistant but pretty light. The yellow pine ply on the east coast is rot resistant(and real tough) but heavy
                          All company's do what they call multi marketing....sell the same product(under different labels) to different markets
                          High quality marine ply's provide a perfect finish...........and then most people cover it w/epoxy and glass???

                          On 12/23/2012 03:01 PM, Tim Jennings wrote:
                           
                          This topic has been discussed many times on other forums, with no clear answer, as it seems to depend on one's situation.  I've asked Roseburg via e-mail what is the difference bewteen thier sanded exterior grade panels and their marine plys, but have never gotten an answer.  The web site specs for both are indentical, though the price for the marine is double the cost of the sanded exterior.  Maybe the only difference is that one is stamped "marine?" 
                           
                          If a plywood is made with waterprool glue and has no voids or repairs, and one is going to thoroughly coat the ply with several coats of resin and glass, why not use it? 
                           
                          Tim Jennings
                          Enfield, NH 
                           
                          On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Dennis Mcfadden <dennis-mcfadden@...> wrote:
                           

                          I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
                           
                          Dennis
                           
                          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          > From: jhkohnen@...
                          > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
                          > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                          >
                          > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                          > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                          > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                          > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                          > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                          > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                          > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                          > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                          > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                          > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                          > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                          > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                          > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                          > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                          > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                          > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                          > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                          > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                          > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                          > probably be plenty durable enough.
                          >
                          > http://www.roseburg.com/
                          >
                          > The Coots group:
                          >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
                          >
                          > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
                          >
                          > --
                          > John (jkohnen@...)
                          > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                          > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Bolger rules!!!
                          > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                          > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                          > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                          > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
                          >
                          > <*> Your email settings:
                          > Individual Email | Traditional
                          >
                          > <*> To change settings online go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/join
                          > (Yahoo! ID required)
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                          >
                          > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >



                          --
                          Tim Jennings
                          Director of Facilities
                          Cardigan Mountain School
                          62 Alumni Drive
                          Canaan, NH 03741
                          Phone: (603)523-3536
                          Cell:     (603)443-0279
                          Fax:     (603)523-3550
                          Home:  (603)632-
                          Email:   tjennings@...
                          WWW: http://www.cardigan.org

                      • philbolger@comcast.net
                        That question re-crossed my mind just now. My concern is on all joints having paper between the wood - or will just machining it off in those limited areas do
                        Message 12 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          That question re-crossed my mind just now.  My concern is on all joints having paper between the wood - or will just machining it off in those limited areas do the job ? 

                          How does epoxy and glass-cloth over MDO-paper work long-term on a hull-surface (vs. house and interior) ?

                          Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:49 PM
                          Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"? (fir-ply checking - MDO as solution?)

                           

                          Checking of plywood is not necessarily a "recent" phenom...  my Black Skimmer, built in Maine way back in the '70's as far as I can determine, had some panels that were checking vigorously, some not so much by this century.  (subsequently have sold the BS, hope the next owner really DOES put cloth and resin over the checking panels...)  Sorry, do not know if this was built of FIR or east-coast plywood.

                          Another little runabout I built back in the '60's (here in Pacific NW) used MDO = fir ply, virtually void-less, with a paper-coating applied by the factory, stuck-on with same (or similar) phenol glues, I believe... THAT surface, without epoxy, without glass-sheathing except at joints, "held" the marine-enamel without ANY checking for as long as I kept track of that boat, some 6-8 years...  MDO would be my choice to this day (only wish the mills would make 1/4" MDO, but no call for it from sign-makers (the product's biggest market) as 1/4" is too "floppy" for free-standing highway signs, etc -- 3/8" is the thinnest I've ever found....)

                          Wayne Gilham

                          From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Mcfadden
                          Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:21 PM
                          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

                           

                          I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
                           
                          Dennis
                           

                          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          > From: jhkohnen@...
                          > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
                          > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                          >
                          > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                          > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                          > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                          > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                          > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                          > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                          > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                          > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                          > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                          > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                          > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                          > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                          > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                          > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                          > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                          > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                          > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                          > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                          > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                          > probably be plenty durable enough.
                          >
                          > http://www.roseburg.com/
                          >
                          > The Coots group:
                          >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
                          >
                          > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
                          >
                          > --
                          > John (jkohnen@...)
                          > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                          > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Bolger rules!!!
                          > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                          > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                          > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                          > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
                          >
                          > <*> Your email settings:
                          > Individual Email | Traditional
                          >
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                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/join
                          > (Yahoo! ID required)
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                          > bolger-digest@yahoogroups.com
                          > bolger-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
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                          > bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >

                        • philbolger@comcast.net
                          Prebuilding that it - with a p - all to avoid Rebuilding anytime soon... Susanne Altenburger, PB&F ... From: philbolger@comcast.net To:
                          Message 13 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            'Prebuilding' that it - with a p - all to avoid 'Rebuilding' anytime soon...

                            Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:55 PM
                            Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"? (fir-ply checking - MDO as solution?)

                            That question re-crossed my mind just now.  My concern is on all joints having paper between the wood - or will just machining it off in those limited areas do the job ? 

                            How does epoxy and glass-cloth over MDO-paper work long-term on a hull-surface (vs. house and interior) ?

                            Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:49 PM
                            Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"? (fir-ply checking - MDO as solution?)

                             

                            Checking of plywood is not necessarily a "recent" phenom...  my Black Skimmer, built in Maine way back in the '70's as far as I can determine, had some panels that were checking vigorously, some not so much by this century.  (subsequently have sold the BS, hope the next owner really DOES put cloth and resin over the checking panels...)  Sorry, do not know if this was built of FIR or east-coast plywood.

                            Another little runabout I built back in the '60's (here in Pacific NW) used MDO = fir ply, virtually void-less, with a paper-coating applied by the factory, stuck-on with same (or similar) phenol glues, I believe... THAT surface, without epoxy, without glass-sheathing except at joints, "held" the marine-enamel without ANY checking for as long as I kept track of that boat, some 6-8 years...  MDO would be my choice to this day (only wish the mills would make 1/4" MDO, but no call for it from sign-makers (the product's biggest market) as 1/4" is too "floppy" for free-standing highway signs, etc -- 3/8" is the thinnest I've ever found....)

                            Wayne Gilham

                            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Mcfadden
                            Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:21 PM
                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?

                             

                            I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think). The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
                             
                            Dennis
                             

                            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: jhkohnen@...
                            > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
                            > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                            >
                            > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                            > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                            > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                            > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                            > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                            > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                            > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                            > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                            > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                            > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                            > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                            > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                            > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                            > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                            > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                            > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                            > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                            > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                            > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                            > probably be plenty durable enough.
                            >
                            > http://www.roseburg.com/
                            >
                            > The Coots group:
                            >
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
                            >
                            > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
                            >
                            > --
                            > John (jkohnen@...)
                            > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                            > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Bolger rules!!!
                            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
                            >
                            > <*> Your email settings:
                            > Individual Email | Traditional
                            >
                            > <*> To change settings online go to:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/join
                            > (Yahoo! ID required)
                            >
                            > <*> To change settings via email:
                            > bolger-digest@yahoogroups.com
                            > bolger-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
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                          • welshman@ptialaska.net
                            Where are you getting MDO these days? And what brand ? HJ Checking of plywood is not necessarily a recent phenom... my Black Skimmer,
                            Message 14 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
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                              Where are you getting MDO these days? And what "brand"?

                              HJ

                              Checking of plywood is not necessarily a "recent" phenom... my Black Skimmer,
                              > built in Maine way
                              > back in the '70's as far as I can determine, had some panels that were checking
                              > vigorously, some not
                              > so much by this century. (subsequently have sold the BS, hope the next owner
                              > really DOES put cloth
                              > and resin over the checking panels...) Sorry, do not know if this was built of FIR
                              > or east-coast
                              > plywood.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Another little runabout I built back in the '60's (here in Pacific NW) used MDO =
                              > fir ply, virtually
                              > void-less, with a paper-coating applied by the factory, stuck-on with same (or
                              > similar) phenol
                              > glues, I believe... THAT surface, without epoxy, without glass-sheathing except at
                              > joints, "held"
                              > the marine-enamel without ANY checking for as long as I kept track of that boat,
                              > some 6-8 years...
                              > MDO would be my choice to this day (only wish the mills would make 1/4" MDO, but no
                              > call for it from
                              > sign-makers (the product's biggest market) as 1/4" is too "floppy" for
                              > free-standing highway signs,
                              > etc -- 3/8" is the thinnest I've ever found....)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Wayne Gilham
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
                              > Mcfadden
                              > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:21 PM
                              > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown,
                              > purchased in
                              > Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a
                              > polyurethane (I think).
                              > The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the
                              > black glue between
                              > layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully
                              > prevent further
                              > checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
                              >
                              > Dennis
                              >
                              >
                              >> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              >> From: jhkohnen@...
                              >> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
                              >> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                              >>
                              >> Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                              >> Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                              >> plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                              >> remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                              >> road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                              >> putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                              >> seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                              >> marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                              >> the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                              >> about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                              >> "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                              >> few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                              >> face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                              >> you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                              >> than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                              >> peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                              >> life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                              >> there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                              >> fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                              >> probably be plenty durable enough.
                              >>
                              >> http://www.roseburg.com/
                              >>
                              >> The Coots group:
                              >>
                              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
                              >>
                              >> My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
                              >>
                              >> --
                              >> John (jkohnen@...)
                              >> Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                              >> tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> ------------------------------------
                              >>
                              >> Bolger rules!!!
                              >> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                              >> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                              >> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                              >> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                              >> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
                              >> 282-1349
                              >> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups
                              >> Links
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • John Kohnen
                              If you worry about the paper overlay of MDO you should worry about the veneers coming apart too. ;o) The overlay is impregnated with the same goo that holds
                              Message 15 of 21 , Dec 24, 2012
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                                If you worry about the "paper" overlay of MDO you should worry about the
                                veneers coming apart too. ;o) The overlay is impregnated with the same goo
                                that holds the plywood together. It soaks up epoxy, and joints to it are
                                as strong as joints to bare plywood.

                                Sheathing MDO with fiberglass is a waste, though it'll work fine. You can
                                get MDO that's only got the overlay on one side, and then put the bare
                                side out where you need sheathing. MDO is usually just painted.

                                MDO is just the name of a type of plywood, there are different grades of
                                it, and the quality can differ between manufacturers. Oly Panel (formerly
                                Simpson) in Shelton, Wash. makes a couple of good MDOs, their Signal and
                                Crezon. A friend of mine built a Kayleigh out of Crezon MDO and it's
                                holding up well:

                                http://www.olypanel.com/

                                Some of the last makers of lapstrake runabouts use(d?) MDO for the planks.

                                On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 09:55:25 -0800, Susanne wrote:

                                > That question re-crossed my mind just now. My concern is on all joints
                                > having paper between the wood - or will just machining it off in those
                                > limited areas do the job ?
                                >
                                > How does epoxy and glass-cloth over MDO-paper work long-term on a
                                > hull-surface (vs. house and interior) ?
                                > ...

                                --
                                John (jkohnen@...)
                                Nothing is really work unless you would rather be doing
                                something else. (Sir James Barrie)
                              • RSS
                                On my first plywood boat I fell for the myth that simply coating it with epoxy would keep it from checking. Huh! After that I glass everything. Hull,
                                Message 16 of 21 , Dec 25, 2012
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                                  On my first plywood boat I fell for the myth that simply coating it with epoxy would keep it from checking. Huh! After that I glass everything. Hull, superstructure, everything. No more problems. It may cost more to start with, but the reduced maintenance is worth it to me as I am not one of those people who love working on the boat more than being out using it! I love building, but the maintenance after,not! At this point in life I am wishing I had an all aluminum boat so I could totally ignore everything.
                                  Bob


                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I'm with John on this in that I used marine grade fir ply ( maunufacturer unknown, purchased in
                                  > Vancouver, Canada) . I coated it with epoxy but no fabric, followed with a polyurethane (I think).
                                  > The checking set in shortly thereafter. I have sanded down to the point where the black glue between
                                  > layers is discoloring the deck. A new coat of epoxy plus f/g fabric will hopefully prevent further
                                  > checking. Varnish to follow when the weather warms up. The checking is a pain...
                                  >
                                  > Dennis
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > From: jhkohnen@...
                                  > > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:13:22 -0800
                                  > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Anybody use Roseburg "Marine Plywood"?
                                  > >
                                  > > Roseburg Forest Products is a pretty good manufacturer of plywood. The
                                  > > Toledo Boathouse just built a Michalak skiff using their AC exterior
                                  > > plywood and it looked good, even seemed to have Doug fir for the core (I
                                  > > remember when the workers from the plywood mill (now defunct) down the
                                  > > road from a biker bar I hung out in got all scandalized when they started
                                  > > putting cottonwood core plies in their fir plywood! <g>). I don't recall
                                  > > seeing any Roseburg marine plywood, but it's probably as good as any fir
                                  > > marine plywood these days. Doug fir is more rot resistant than okoume and
                                  > > the glue used in marine and exterior fir plywood is phenol formaldehyde,
                                  > > about as waterproof as you can get, but the standards for American
                                  > > "marine" plywood have been watered way down. :o( There will probably be a
                                  > > few interior voids in each sheet, and several "football" patches in the
                                  > > face plies. But the biggest problem with fir plywood is that it checks if
                                  > > you don't sheathe it with fiberglass. The checking seems worse nowadays
                                  > > than it used to be, probably because of stresses in the veneers from being
                                  > > peeled from smaller trees. <shrug> Checking doesn't seem to affect the
                                  > > life of a boat, but is unsightly, and _looks_ like it oughta be bad. But
                                  > > there are plenty of old plywood boats around that were never sheathed with
                                  > > fiberglass. <shrug> A boat built with Roseburg marine plywood will
                                  > > probably be plenty durable enough.
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.roseburg.com/
                                  > >
                                  > > The Coots group:
                                  > >
                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/
                                  > >
                                  > > My nephew is chef d'cuisine at The Pearl in Missoula. :o)
                                  > >
                                  > > --
                                  > > John (jkohnen@...)
                                  > > Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit
                                  > > tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > Bolger rules!!!
                                  > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                  > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                                  > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                  > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                  > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                  > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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