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Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

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  • nezih
    ... From: philbolger@comcast.net To: bolger@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER Nezih, I once had
    Message 1 of 42 , Nov 13, 2012
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      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:28 PM
      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER


         I once had the chance to visit Istanbul for just a few days and never forgot it, including a Sight-Seeing tour around the Golden Horn.  Very intense and distinct experience of indeed 'Orient' meeting 'Occident' in this old and important city.  
      Yes,Mrs.Altenburger,I am agree with you.Hence I want to spend the rest of my life by making tours with MT,during the summer time.In addition to Bosphore there is one another place called princes Islands(7 small islands).They are near to Bosphore.Especially in summer time.Beatiful place.
      How much does the annual tax on boats above    the 5sm mark really cost you ?
      MICROTRAWLER is designed for planing with at least light outboard 50HP - versus either much heavier inboard diesel-power for the same speed or no speed at the same weight incl. gearbox, prop, rudder etc.  I do not recollect the current through the Marmara Strait but the Black and Mediterranean connect there with likely things getting 'lively on occasion, if not every 6.3hrs.  So you'd need light-weight/OB speed ?
      Annual tax over 5 meters is approx.200-250 usd.If you compare with USA maybe it is small amount.But regret to inform you it is not a fixed rate.Government can increase it every year like annual car taxes.
      In addition to that there is insurance etc.Before,we were paying taxes according to the HP of Engine.If HP is 9.9 or less that there were no taxes.Now they are collecting taxes according to the lenght of Boat.It is not easy to find cheap marinas here.If you add marine expences inc.tax.,it is taking a remarkable  annual amount.
      For Engine,there are light Air Cooled engines made from Aliminium.Before I make my final decision I will compare the weight of Air cooled  Engine and Outboard.If there is slight difference no problem.Bcs the ply weight of sleeping area will compensate.
      Do they tax the boat-hull on the trailer ? 
      Is it trailer-/marina-length or overall length running ?
      And could you have a folding bow to make her longer once she is in the water.
      If Trailer weight is over 440 kgs,there is tax and has to be registered to traffic.Lenght is not probem.But I think,width will not be more than 2.40 meters.
      Authorities are measuring the lenght of the boat,during the registeration and giving official documents writing the details of the Boat.  

      Accepting the extra 1m of length in taxes, a simple powersharpie of say 20-feet and 5-6 feet of width with a 10hp outboard might still be cheaper overall than a short wide horsepower-hungry hull that has no seriously useable cabin - even to just take a nap - but saves some money on taxes.  Such a hull will not weigh more than a short wide dense MT.  And that hull would look as good/'cute' as MT....  But not quite as easy to park - unless we fold the bow up when she is on the trailer...

      Options, calculations, decision...
      Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: nezih
      Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:35 PM
      Subject: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER


      Thanks for your diesel engine confirmation.Bcs they are safe and cheap fuel facility and long run,even in hot weather.
      I am from Turkey,Istanbul and climate is stable,except 1 or 2 weeks stromy weather.During the summer time,temparature
      is approximately 28-35 celsius degree and we do not have big storms like USA.There is one inland sea(sea of Marmara)
      and MT is quite suitable.Off course,Bosphourus is a narrow strait(lenght 15 kilometers,width 600-800 meters).
      Kindly inform you that,your below comments has been dully noted.I will take care of them.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:33 PM
      Subject: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER


      Ah yes, inboard air cooled diesel! Much safer in enclosing a diesel versus a gasoline powered engine. Should be very economical to run compared to gas. I also understand your desire to use the smaller MT versus a larger Hawkeye design; here in the US, in my home state of NJ, boat registration fees are also set by the length of the boat. It sounds like you are going to have one interesting MT when she is done! At this time the only thing I may suggest is giving the engine good ventilation, with possible consideration in mounting the engine intake high (possibly via pipe as high as the cabin or thereabouts) to avoid any chance of water intrusion into the air intake of your engine. A good and sturdy, watertight engine box should be considered, too. I am not sure what the climate is like in your Med. area, here in the Northeast US, weather systems are constantly changing, bringing weather from absolute calm, to violent thunderstorms in the spring and summer, hurricanes in the fall and strong northwesteries in the winter. A nice, weather tight cabin is a definite plus along with proper enclosures for inboard boat engines.

      True Doug, Ford FE gas truck engines had larger diameter crankshafts and cam profiles designed more for low RPM torque, compared to the equivalent car engines.
      Message 42 of 42 , Nov 16, 2012
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        True Doug, Ford FE gas truck engines had larger diameter crankshafts and cam profiles designed more for low RPM torque, compared to the equivalent car engines. Some GMC truck gassers even had exhaust valve rotators and stellite valve seats, anticipating heavier engine load demands. 

        Your Isuzu may have had oil starvation issues if the oilpan capacity was not increased and the pickup lowered. I have a marinized 1956 Packard V8 with the oilpan capacity increased from 5 quarts to 4 gallons and an integral oil cooler built in. Most working boats of 25-30 feet and up have gone diesel but that may not be a practical option for the MT being discussed. 4 cycle outboards have been around for several years now and have a good track record even in small commercial fishboats that get hard use.

        From: Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...>
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, November 16, 2012 12:33:28 PM
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER


        Yes this is all true. Back in the 1960's we used to marinize v8 gasoline engines for Chesapeake Bay work boats. WE always looked for a truck engine because they had four bolt main bearings and I think maybe an extra main though I am not sure about that. Most Of the small diesel boat engine are industrial stationary engine that the manufacturer has marinized. There is not much difference between an engine running a boat and one running a water pump 24-7.   I think that the Volkswagen 4 cylinder automobile diesel engine did not hold up well.  I had a 3cylinder Izuzu diesel in a boat and it was a marinized industrial engine.  I had trouble with the #1 cylinder and again after rebuilding. I figured it was designed to set flat when running and the incline may have been a problem??   My experience with outboard engines is that they don't last long in my experience. This may be due to running wide open all the time??   I can't speak for the 4 cycle high torque engines with propellers intended for slower none plaining boats. They may be great?           Doug

        On 11/16/2012 12:29 PM, JOHN WALLIS wrote:
        Good points Susanne. Also consider that automobile engines typically only run @ about 20% of rated max HP around 80% of the time (coasting, idling at the stop light, flat terrain cruising etc). 

        On the other hand, when you consider hull drag, prop thrust and friction, marine engines are constantly going uphill towing a trailer and are designed accordingly. My recommendation is a 4 stroke outboard until you get into larger boats where a diesel inboard makes more sense. 

        From: "philbolger@..." <philbolger@...>
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, November 16, 2012 4:57:13 AM
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER


        Every SUBARU engine is a flat -4 or -6 - and always water-cooled.

        Ultimately for the horsepower to get MT up on a plane no power plant will as light for the power as an outboard by the time you add up gearbox, shafting, propeller, pivoting of prop etc.

        Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: nezih
        Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:35 AM
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER


        Any picture of the Engine,you saw in Fort Lauderdale in a Dunebuggy shop.
        Highly appreciated
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 4:24 AM
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER


        I read someplace that the engine designer was an airplane designer. It sure looks like and airplane engine. Back in the 1980's somebody built a water cooled aluminum block to bolt on to the crank case in place of the air cooled jugs.  They also had water cooled heads for it. I saw one of the engines in a Dunebuggy shop In Fort Lauderdale. That engine might well make a nice boat engine.  

        On 11/15/2012 09:00 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:

        Yeh, it was great to have it and the transaxle balanced atop a rolling jack. The heat is what burned the valves out. I expect in a boat one may also seem pretty loud.

        On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

        What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well... ...I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation.  

        On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:

        Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
        as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
        Inboard Engines
        Awaiting comments.

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