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Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

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  • kateo
    Having tried to trolling motor a Birdwatcher with a disabled centerboard crosswind, I have learned that it needs a gripe ( shallow bow keel ) or a fore-dagger.
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 2, 2012
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      Having tried to trolling motor a Birdwatcher with a disabled centerboard crosswind, I have learned that it needs a gripe ( shallow bow keel ) or a fore-dagger.

      The foredagger would mirror what Dovekies had, I think.

      A gripe is a whole heckuva lot easier to retrofit.

      So the question is, how deep, and how long?

      I am also considering a broomstick mizzen to help keep head to wind. Interestingly enough Thames barges had steering mizzensails mounted on their rudders which turned with the rudder.
    • Connor, Patrick
      My Whalewatcher has a similar bow-board and I have found it a handy and useful device to aid low-speed maneuvering. From: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 2, 2012
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        My Whalewatcher has a similar bow-board and I have found it a handy and useful device to aid low-speed maneuvering.

         

        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kateo
        Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 10:48 AM
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [bolger] Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

         

         

        Having tried to trolling motor a Birdwatcher with a disabled centerboard crosswind, I have learned that it needs a gripe ( shallow bow keel ) or a fore-dagger.

        The foredagger would mirror what Dovekies had, I think.

        A gripe is a whole heckuva lot easier to retrofit.

        So the question is, how deep, and how long?

        I am also considering a broomstick mizzen to help keep head to wind. Interestingly enough Thames barges had steering mizzensails mounted on their rudders which turned with the rudder.

      • Connor, Patrick
        Mine is the same depth as the hull: 10.5 inches. From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Connor, Patrick Sent: Friday,
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 2, 2012
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          Mine is the same depth as the hull: 10.5 inches.

           

          From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Connor, Patrick
          Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 10:56 AM
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [bolger] Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

           

           

          My Whalewatcher has a similar bow-board and I have found it a handy and useful device to aid low-speed maneuvering.

           

          From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kateo
          Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 10:48 AM
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [bolger] Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

           

           

          Having tried to trolling motor a Birdwatcher with a disabled centerboard crosswind, I have learned that it needs a gripe ( shallow bow keel ) or a fore-dagger.

          The foredagger would mirror what Dovekies had, I think.

          A gripe is a whole heckuva lot easier to retrofit.

          So the question is, how deep, and how long?

          I am also considering a broomstick mizzen to help keep head to wind. Interestingly enough Thames barges had steering mizzensails mounted on their rudders which turned with the rudder.

        • Mason Smith
          I too tried to work up a mizzen on my Birdwatchers, if only to keep the boat from screaming around its anchor in a breeze. Whew! It would clip the head off a
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 2, 2012
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            I too tried to work up a mizzen on my Birdwatchers, if only to keep the boat from screaming around its anchor in a breeze. Whew! It would clip the head off a swimmer who ventured into its semicircle. The forward boars on my Dovekie was great but I never felt the need on the BWs. Running that trolling motor in a crosswind, I wonder if heeling the boat would do any good. Not really relevant, but last time I sailed my Micro (one of two) on Lake George, I tried trolling with a downrigger, under sail. That’s pretty good!

             

            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kateo
            Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 10:48 AM
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [bolger] Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

             

             

            Having tried to trolling motor a Birdwatcher with a disabled centerboard crosswind, I have learned that it needs a gripe ( shallow bow keel ) or a fore-dagger.

            The foredagger would mirror what Dovekies had, I think.

            A gripe is a whole heckuva lot easier to retrofit.

            So the question is, how deep, and how long?

            I am also considering a broomstick mizzen to help keep head to wind. Interestingly enough Thames barges had steering mizzensails mounted on their rudders which turned with the rudder.

          • Mason Smith
            Pat, your two images on your bow-board letter are blank, here. From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Connor, Patrick Sent:
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 2, 2012
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              Pat, your two images on your bow-board letter are blank, here.

               

              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Connor, Patrick
              Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 10:56 AM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [bolger] Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

               

               

              My Whalewatcher has a similar bow-board and I have found it a handy and useful device to aid low-speed maneuvering.

               

              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kateo
              Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 10:48 AM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [bolger] Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

               

               

              Having tried to trolling motor a Birdwatcher with a disabled centerboard crosswind, I have learned that it needs a gripe ( shallow bow keel ) or a fore-dagger.

              The foredagger would mirror what Dovekies had, I think.

              A gripe is a whole heckuva lot easier to retrofit.

              So the question is, how deep, and how long?

              I am also considering a broomstick mizzen to help keep head to wind. Interestingly enough Thames barges had steering mizzensails mounted on their rudders which turned with the rudder.

            • Connor, Patrick
              I do not know what those are as I did not attach anything to my email to the group. From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 2, 2012
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                I do not know what those are as I did not attach anything to my email to the group.

                 

                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mason Smith
                Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 1:13 PM
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Bolger] Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

                 

                 

                Pat, your two images on your bow-board letter are blank, here.

                 

                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Connor, Patrick
                Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 10:56 AM
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [bolger] Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

                 

                 

                My Whalewatcher has a similar bow-board and I have found it a handy and useful device to aid low-speed maneuvering.

                 

                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kateo
                Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 10:48 AM
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [bolger] Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

                 

                 

                Having tried to trolling motor a Birdwatcher with a disabled centerboard crosswind, I have learned that it needs a gripe ( shallow bow keel ) or a fore-dagger.

                The foredagger would mirror what Dovekies had, I think.

                A gripe is a whole heckuva lot easier to retrofit.

                So the question is, how deep, and how long?

                I am also considering a broomstick mizzen to help keep head to wind. Interestingly enough Thames barges had steering mizzensails mounted on their rudders which turned with the rudder.

              • Cod
                Interesting. I tried heeling to a certain extent. With the standard old BW helm, you re standing fairly far aft and you re not in a good place to affect the
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 3, 2012
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                  Interesting. I tried heeling to a certain extent. With the standard old BW helm, you're standing fairly far aft and you're not in a good place to affect the heeling.

                  I probably should have run a line thru the CB hole and let it hang to get some area down there.
                  I won't go down in the annals of clever skippers.

                  The upshot of this and another windy day experience is also to use a sweep oar in conjunction with a troller. Have sort of decided to convert to a push pull tiller somehow to allow standing or sitting further forward.

                  Whack-boing! It's dub!
                  www.thecheappages.com
                • Gene Berry
                  i wont go down in the annals of clever skippers yea you and me both, i tell everyone that i am a self taught sailor, a lousy teacher and a worse student.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 3, 2012
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                    "i wont go down in the annals of clever skippers" yea you and me both, i tell everyone that i am a self taught sailor, a lousy teacher and a worse student. (you can use that if you want) ain't it fun learning though : )

                    Gene Berry


                    From: Cod <dadadata@...>
                    To: "bolger@yahoogroups.com" <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 3:10 PM
                    Subject: [bolger] Re: Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

                     
                    Interesting. I tried heeling to a certain extent. With the standard old BW helm, you're standing fairly far aft and you're not in a good place to affect the heeling.

                    I probably should have run a line thru the CB hole and let it hang to get some area down there.
                    I won't go down in the annals of clever skippers.

                    The upshot of this and another windy day experience is also to use a sweep oar in conjunction with a troller. Have sort of decided to convert to a push pull tiller somehow to allow standing or sitting further forward.

                    Whack-boing! It's dub!
                    www.thecheappages.com



                  • Wayne Gilham
                    Another approach to a second tiller station, (or moving the existing tiller station) is to rig a loop of line as far forward as desired, running off existing
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 3, 2012
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                      Another approach to a second tiller station, (or moving the existing tiller station) is to rig a loop of line as far forward as desired, running off existing tiller (say maybe a foot forward of pivot-point, or further forward on tiller for more mechanical advantage..), then thru blocks along hullside (or in the case of Birdwatcher. maybe just below the stbd and port edges of the centerline opening), to turning blocks forward... one long loop reasonably taut -- then you can grab that line anywhere and push-pull to control the tiller back there.  Could even put a push-pull "stick" hooked to that line (pivot at the base of the stick, below the line) to give a sort-of "tiller" -- many old-time power-launches controlled their rudder that way, even if stick was mounted against gunwale (thus push fore/aft to turn) as it's  easier than having line loop around a wheel-sprocket pulley.

                       

                      Wayne Gilham

                      who set up his 22' open whaleboat with such a push-puller tiller-rope, especially for when powering with outboard, so I could get far away from that noisy, smelly (but VERY torquey) 1934 4hp Evinrude opposed-twin..and better balance the boat, avoiding seating way back in the stern quarters.

                       

                      From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cod
                      Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 1:10 PM
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [bolger] Re: Birdwatcher: how deep a gripe?

                       

                       

                      Interesting. I tried heeling to a certain extent. With the standard old BW helm, you're standing fairly far aft and you're not in a good place to affect the heeling.

                      I probably should have run a line thru the CB hole and let it hang to get some area down there.
                      I won't go down in the annals of clever skippers.

                      The upshot of this and another windy day experience is also to use a sweep oar in conjunction with a troller. Have sort of decided to convert to a push pull tiller somehow to allow standing or sitting further forward.

                      Whack-boing! It's dub!
                      www.thecheappages.com

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