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RE: [bolger] slotted screws verses Philips head.

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  • John Trussell
    Amen on the hollow ground screw drivers. I ve had good luck with a Yankee screw driver and a hollow ground blade. New ones are available, but mine came from
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 22, 2012
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      Amen on the hollow ground screw drivers. I’ve had good luck with a Yankee screw driver and a hollow ground blade. New ones are available, but mine came from yard sales. I find a brace and bit screw driver is particular useful when removing screws as you can keep pressure on the head and control torque very precisely.

       

      JohnT

       


      From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Douglas Pollard
      Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:12 PM
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [bolger] slotted screws verses Philips head.

       

       

      Here is a post I made on the South Bend lathe group, where one one the
      guys was complaining about slotted screws not being any good.
      There is an amazing secret about slotted screws. They used to
      work fine up until WW2 when the military needed millions of cheap
      screwdrivers. Flats on screw drivers for many years were hollow ground
      rather than the flats just being tapered. The hollow ground screwdriver
      tended to pull itself into the slot while the straight tapered ones
      wanting to climb up out of the slot because of the tapered sides. I
      made some screw drivers about 20 years ago and the difference is like
      night and day. They are all gone now so I guess I need to make some
      more. Slotted screws are far better than Phillips head screws If the
      screw driver is right. You don't even have to push down on the screw
      driver and you never ruin a slot unless you put a wrench on the screw
      driver and literally break the screw head. Sometimes it amazes me what
      a price we pay in usability for cheaper tools.
      When I started to work in the Machine shop my older brother
      bought me a set of Grace drivers as a way of encouragement. They got
      away from me over the years. I will order a set today. I build a
      wooden sailboat now and then and I have a brace and bit for driving
      screws. The bit is hollow ground. The screw driver bit is all that is
      left of a set of ships carpenter tools my first wife's grandfather gave
      me on his death. A guy stole my car in the early 1960's and the toolbox
      was in the trunk. The brace and bit was in a bag under the seat so he
      missed that. The brace was made from lignum vitae on a steel frame. I
      recently gave it to my son to hang on the wall. He said the hell with
      that he is going to build a boat.:-)
      I just found out that you can buy Gun smithing screw drivers on
      line. The make is Grace and the are hardened and hollow ground. I
      googled and found it. Doug

    • Wayne Gilham
      I had heard an urban legend that Henry Ford invented/adopted the Phillips screw specifically because the screw could not be over-tightened by his un-trained
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 22, 2012
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        I had heard an 'urban legend" that Henry Ford invented/adopted the Phillips screw specifically because the screw could not be over-tightened by his un-trained assembly-line workers... not quite true, but close, according this post:  http://www.marfas.com/phillips.shtml

         

        Only the history's wrong: according that article, the concept that only a specific amount of torque, not more, can be transmitted thru that crossed-tip tool, apparently IS correct -- so NO WONDER we curse the type when trying to back-out such screws that have been installed long-enough to get "stuck"...

         

        Regards,

        Wayne Gilham

        who loves, and seeks out, the Robertson square-drive screws -- we see a lot of 'em in Canadian boats up here in the Pacific NW.  Have yet to see a damaged Robertson square-drive "hole" in any screw, even bronze ones...

         

        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Pollard
        Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 9:12 AM
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [bolger] slotted screws verses Philips head.

         

         

        Here is a post I made on the South Bend lathe group, where one one the
        guys was complaining about slotted screws not being any good.
        There is an amazing secret about slotted screws. They used to
        work fine up until WW2 when the military needed millions of cheap
        screwdrivers. Flats on screw drivers for many years were hollow ground
        rather than the flats just being tapered. The hollow ground screwdriver
        tended to pull itself into the slot while the straight tapered ones
        wanting to climb up out of the slot because of the tapered sides. I
        made some screw drivers about 20 years ago and the difference is like
        night and day. They are all gone now so I guess I need to make some
        more. Slotted screws are far better than Phillips head screws If the
        screw driver is right. You don't even have to push down on the screw
        driver and you never ruin a slot unless you put a wrench on the screw
        driver and literally break the screw head. Sometimes it amazes me what
        a price we pay in usability for cheaper tools.
        When I started to work in the Machine shop my older brother
        bought me a set of Grace drivers as a way of encouragement. They got
        away from me over the years. I will order a set today. I build a
        wooden sailboat now and then and I have a brace and bit for driving
        screws. The bit is hollow ground. The screw driver bit is all that is
        left of a set of ships carpenter tools my first wife's grandfather gave
        me on his death. A guy stole my car in the early 1960's and the toolbox
        was in the trunk. The brace and bit was in a bag under the seat so he
        missed that. The brace was made from lignum vitae on a steel frame. I
        recently gave it to my son to hang on the wall. He said the hell with
        that he is going to build a boat.:-)
        I just found out that you can buy Gun smithing screw drivers on
        line. The make is Grace and the are hardened and hollow ground. I
        googled and found it. Doug

      • Jeffery Measamer
        Agreed, I ve been using hollow ground screwdrivers for years working on firearms and don t understand why they aren t used everywhere.   Jeff
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 22, 2012
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          Agreed, I've been using hollow ground screwdrivers for years working on firearms and don't understand why they aren't used everywhere.
           
          Jeff


          From: John Trussell <jtrussell2@...>
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 11:23 AM
          Subject: RE: [bolger] slotted screws verses Philips head.
           
          Amen on the hollow ground screw drivers. I’ve had good luck with a Yankee screw driver and a hollow ground blade. New ones are available, but mine came from yard sales. I find a brace and bit screw driver is particular useful when removing screws as you can keep pressure on the head and control torque very precisely.
           
          JohnT
           
          From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Douglas Pollard
          Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:12 PM
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [bolger] slotted screws verses Philips head.
           
           
          Here is a post I made on the South Bend lathe group, where one one the
          guys was complaining about slotted screws not being any good.
          There is an amazing secret about slotted screws. They used to
          work fine up until WW2 when the military needed millions of cheap
          screwdrivers. Flats on screw drivers for many years were hollow ground
          rather than the flats just being tapered. The hollow ground screwdriver
          tended to pull itself into the slot while the straight tapered ones
          wanting to climb up out of the slot because of the tapered sides. I
          made some screw drivers about 20 years ago and the difference is like
          night and day. They are all gone now so I guess I need to make some
          more. Slotted screws are far better than Phillips head screws If the
          screw driver is right. You don't even have to push down on the screw
          driver and you never ruin a slot unless you put a wrench on the screw
          driver and literally break the screw head. Sometimes it amazes me what
          a price we pay in usability for cheaper tools.
          When I started to work in the Machine shop my older brother
          bought me a set of Grace drivers as a way of encouragement. They got
          away from me over the years. I will order a set today. I build a
          wooden sailboat now and then and I have a brace and bit for driving
          screws. The bit is hollow ground. The screw driver bit is all that is
          left of a set of ships carpenter tools my first wife's grandfather gave
          me on his death. A guy stole my car in the early 1960's and the toolbox
          was in the trunk. The brace and bit was in a bag under the seat so he
          missed that. The brace was made from lignum vitae on a steel frame. I
          recently gave it to my son to hang on the wall. He said the hell with
          that he is going to build a boat.:-)
          I just found out that you can buy Gun smithing screw drivers on
          line. The make is Grace and the are hardened and hollow ground. I
          googled and found it. Doug
        • bayfield bayfield
          Best overall screws are Robertson head or square. Driver will not slip out of slot an damage wood.
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 22, 2012
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            Best overall screws are Robertson head or square. Driver will not slip out of slot an damage wood.

          • Paul
            Robertson is the way to go in my opinion. just match the driver with the screw Paul Happy Adventure
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 22, 2012
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              Robertson is the way to go in my opinion. just match the driver with the screw Paul Happy Adventure
            • David Baughman
              I agree with the Robertson enthusiasm. When I married a lovely Canadian girl 37 years ago I was delighted and amazed to discover these simple, useful screws.
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 22, 2012
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                I agree with the Robertson enthusiasm.
                When I married a lovely Canadian girl 37 years ago
                I was delighted and amazed to discover
                these simple, useful screws.
                Even the tiniest brass screws can be installed with confidence,
                and the screw clings to the driver,
                simplifying work in one-hand-only areas.
                And they are manufactured in standardised sizes
                and colour-coded (yellow green and red cover sizes 3 to 10),
                making it easy to match screws with appropriate drivers.
                I assumed these screws would take over the market
                in all of North America,
                but the USA seems reluctant to adopt them.
                They can be ordered through most any Canadian woodworking outlet.
                If you haven't tried them you're in for a treat.
                Just be sure to order the drivers or bits as well
                or you'll have great screws and no way to use them!

                --
                "We can easily forgive a child
                who is afraid of the dark;
                the real tragedy of life
                is when men are afraid of the light."
                -- Plato
              • Andrew Wallace
                I first came across the Robertson-head woodscrews when working in Canada some 40 years ago. They have been available here in New Zealand for at least 25 years
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 22, 2012
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                  I first came across the Robertson-head woodscrews when working in Canada some 40 years ago. They have been available here in New Zealand for at least 25 years - I would simply never use any other type, given the choice. They are brilliant. Must be some kind of fancy marketing of Phillips head or slotted screws that has limited the availability of Robertsons in the U.S.
                  Andrew.
                  New Zealand.


                  From: David Baughman <shascho@...>
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2012 8:25 AM
                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: slotted screws verses Philips head.

                   
                  I agree with the Robertson enthusiasm.
                  When I married a lovely Canadian girl 37 years ago
                  I was delighted and amazed to discover
                  these simple, useful screws.
                  Even the tiniest brass screws can be installed with confidence,
                  and the screw clings to the driver,
                  simplifying work in one-hand-only areas.
                  And they are manufactured in standardised sizes
                  and colour-coded (yellow green and red cover sizes 3 to 10),
                  making it easy to match screws with appropriate drivers.
                  I assumed these screws would take over the market
                  in all of North America,
                  but the USA seems reluctant to adopt them.
                  They can be ordered through most any Canadian woodworking outlet.
                  If you haven't tried them you're in for a treat.
                  Just be sure to order the drivers or bits as well
                  or you'll have great screws and no way to use them!

                  --
                  "We can easily forgive a child
                  who is afraid of the dark;
                  the real tragedy of life
                  is when men are afraid of the light."
                  -- Plato


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