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a little food for thought

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  • Douglas Pollard
    I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as most now are. One problem
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 11, 2012
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      I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
      sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as
      most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with the wood
      in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in a way
      you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an AS 29
      or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I might
      paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they join
      the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
      attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any buyer and
      myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
      This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or there but a
      piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
      I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
      wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
      painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
      condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her with a
      mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting like in
      the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I belive
      the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't be sure
      either.
      If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
      was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
      her. She would have been well worth the money.
      So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
      work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her over the
      years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
      not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily know do a
      few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
      possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older. Certainly
      surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden boat.
      Doug
    • philbolger@comcast.net
      One could argue that relative moisture-levels and spore-presence might offer an indication of relative age of such structures. I would think that carefully
      Message 2 of 28 , Sep 11, 2012
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        One could argue that relative moisture-levels and spore-presence might offer an indication of relative 'age' of such structures.

        I would think that carefully chosen 'test-sites' in the painted and even insulated hull-structure could be drilled into from the inside to a clearly-defined depth in order to insert a moisture-meter and/or take wood-dust samples for basic assessment of that area - all without violating the outside water-tight integrity.  Taking actual core-drillings is another more radical option. 

        Such a procedure with both parties present and video-documented would reveal vital realities for both seller and potential buyer; hire a surveyor as the 3rd set of eyes and have thus certified on their letterhead what these tests revealed.   Both approaches assume that you then carefully re-seal the test-holes again, and reinsert/re-epoxy that 'plug' (with a backing-piece over the plug if need be).  We're talking carefully chosen de facto biopsy-sites...

        The more you consider these options, the less mysterious the epoxied, glassed, insulated, and painted-over hull-structure might be.  You use these in addition to tapping, grinding off selected patches of paint, and whatever other indicators seem sensible.

        Susanne Altenburger, PB&F 
          
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:37 AM
        Subject: [bolger] a little food for thought

         

        I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
        sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as
        most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with the wood
        in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in a way
        you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an AS 29
        or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I might
        paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they join
        the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
        attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any buyer and
        myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
        This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or there but a
        piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
        I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
        wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
        painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
        condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her with a
        mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting like in
        the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I belive
        the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't be sure
        either.
        If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
        was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
        her. She would have been well worth the money.
        So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
        work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her over the
        years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
        not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily know do a
        few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
        possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older. Certainly
        surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden boat.
        Doug

      • tom s
        I bought a 1967 grand banks to live on 7 years ago. plank on frame, but still a bit of a chance. I figured for the extra 35k it would have taken to get the
        Message 3 of 28 , Sep 11, 2012
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          I bought a 1967 grand banks to live on 7 years ago.  plank on frame, but still a bit of a chance.  I figured for the extra 35k it would have taken to get the same boat in glass I could fix quite a bit of hidden rot.  still carefully inspected, but took some of the fear out.  Now I have the warmer, quieter wood structure and all of the rot I've found has been in the plywood house and a bit in the bulwarks.

          Point is, compare the cost to new and figure your "budget" for repair, then make the decision.

          Tom

          Sent from my iPad

          On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:29 AM, <philbolger@...> wrote:

           

          One could argue that relative moisture-levels and spore-presence might offer an indication of relative 'age' of such structures.

          I would think that carefully chosen 'test-sites' in the painted and even insulated hull-structure could be drilled into from the inside to a clearly-defined depth in order to insert a moisture-meter and/or take wood-dust samples for basic assessment of that area - all without violating the outside water-tight integrity.  Taking actual core-drillings is another more radical option. 

          Such a procedure with both parties present and video-documented would reveal vital realities for both seller and potential buyer; hire a surveyor as the 3rd set of eyes and have thus certified on their letterhead what these tests revealed.   Both approaches assume that you then carefully re-seal the test-holes again, and reinsert/re-epoxy that 'plug' (with a backing-piece over the plug if need be).  We're talking carefully chosen de facto biopsy-sites...

          The more you consider these options, the less mysterious the epoxied, glassed, insulated, and painted-over hull-structure might be.  You use these in addition to tapping, grinding off selected patches of paint, and whatever other indicators seem sensible.

          Susanne Altenburger, PB&F 
            
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:37 AM
          Subject: [bolger] a little food for thought

           

          I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
          sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as
          most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with the wood
          in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in a way
          you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an AS 29
          or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I might
          paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they join
          the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
          attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any buyer and
          myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
          This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or there but a
          piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
          I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
          wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
          painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
          condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her with a
          mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting like in
          the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I belive
          the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't be sure
          either.
          If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
          was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
          her. She would have been well worth the money.
          So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
          work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her over the
          years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
          not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily know do a
          few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
          possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older. Certainly
          surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden boat.
          Doug

          =
        • Dan Burrill
          I am a marine surveyor, and I have a moisture meter that will find moisture in wood or GRP (or a combination of the two) up to an inch or so deep, without
          Message 4 of 28 , Sep 11, 2012
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            I am a marine surveyor, and I have a moisture meter that will find moisture in wood or GRP (or a combination of the two) up to an inch or so deep, without making any sort of mark, let alone drilling into the structure (it's a Tramex Skipper, made in Ireland, and they're not cheap, the new version (Skipper Plus) costs about £350 new). There are other similar meters out there, and I'd guess most if not all surveyors use them. Whilst high moisture readings are significantly more indicative of a problem in a plywood and glass boat than they are in a GRP boat (where to be quite honest I put them in the report because clients expect me to and to cover my own backside, not because they're particularly relevant), they don't necessarily indicate current rot, but certainly indicate areas that need attention if rot isn't to become a problem in the future.

            Dan

            On 11/09/2012 17:29, tom s wrote:
             
            I bought a 1967 grand banks to live on 7 years ago.  plank on frame, but still a bit of a chance.  I figured for the extra 35k it would have taken to get the same boat in glass I could fix quite a bit of hidden rot.  still carefully inspected, but took some of the fear out.  Now I have the warmer, quieter wood structure and all of the rot I've found has been in the plywood house and a bit in the bulwarks.

            Point is, compare the cost to new and figure your "budget" for repair, then make the decision.

            Tom

            Sent from my iPad

            On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:29 AM, <philbolger@...> wrote:

             

            One could argue that relative moisture-levels and spore-presence might offer an indication of relative 'age' of such structures.

            I would think that carefully chosen 'test-sites' in the painted and even insulated hull-structure could be drilled into from the inside to a clearly-defined depth in order to insert a moisture-meter and/or take wood-dust samples for basic assessment of that area - all without violating the outside water-tight integrity.  Taking actual core-drillings is another more radical option. 

            Such a procedure with both parties present and video-documented would reveal vital realities for both seller and potential buyer; hire a surveyor as the 3rd set of eyes and have thus certified on their letterhead what these tests revealed.   Both approaches assume that you then carefully re-seal the test-holes again, and reinsert/re-epoxy that 'plug' (with a backing-piece over the plug if need be).  We're talking carefully chosen de facto biopsy-sites...

            The more you consider these options, the less mysterious the epoxied, glassed, insulated, and painted-over hull-structure might be.  You use these in addition to tapping, grinding off selected patches of paint, and whatever other indicators seem sensible.

            Susanne Altenburger, PB&F 
              
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:37 AM
            Subject: [bolger] a little food for thought

             

            I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
            sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as
            most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with the wood
            in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in a way
            you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an AS 29
            or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I might
            paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they join
            the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
            attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any buyer and
            myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
            This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or there but a
            piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
            I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
            wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
            painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
            condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her with a
            mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting like in
            the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I belive
            the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't be sure
            either.
            If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
            was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
            her. She would have been well worth the money.
            So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
            work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her over the
            years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
            not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily know do a
            few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
            possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older. Certainly
            surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden boat.
            Doug

            =

          • Douglas Pollard
            What you say is true but your Grandbanks is not epoxied inside. Paint on wood bubbles up and loosens if moisture is underit. A keen eye will spot most rot
            Message 5 of 28 , Sep 11, 2012
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              What you say is true but your Grandbanks is not epoxied inside.
              Paint on wood bubbles up and loosens if moisture is underit. A keen eye
              will spot most rot pretty quickly. Paint on epoxy will not blister to
              the same extent so that is why I am saying with no paint over epoxy it
              is easier to spot moisture.
              Surveyors are reluctant to do any hole drilling and some will not
              anymore for what ever reason. Of course many don't know anything about
              wooden boats anyway. This of course would not keep me from buying but I
              do expect to get paid for any risk I am taking so that comes off the
              price I will pay. If the seller can eliminate my risk I may very well
              pay his price?? I don't mind spending some money and doing some work
              but I would like to know fairly easily how much, if I can.
              Doug

              On 09/11/2012 12:29 PM, tom s wrote:
              > I bought a 1967 grand banks to live on 7 years ago. plank on frame, but
              > still a bit of a chance. I figured for the extra 35k it would have
              > taken to get the same boat in glass I could fix quite a bit of hidden
              > rot. still carefully inspected, but took some of the fear out. Now I
              > have the warmer, quieter wood structure and all of the rot I've found
              > has been in the plywood house and a bit in the bulwarks.
              >
              > Point is, compare the cost to new and figure your "budget" for repair,
              > then make the decision.
              >
              > Tom
              >
              > Sent from my iPad
              >
              > On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:29 AM, <philbolger@...
              > <mailto:philbolger@...>> wrote:
              >
              >> One could argue that relative moisture-levels and spore-presence might
              >> offer an indication of relative 'age' of such structures.
              >>
              >> I would think that carefully chosen 'test-sites' in the painted and
              >> even insulated hull-structure could be drilled into from the inside to
              >> a clearly-defined depth in order to insert a moisture-meter and/or
              >> take wood-dust samples for basic assessment of that area - all without
              >> violating the outside water-tight integrity. Taking actual
              >> core-drillings is another more radical option.
              >>
              >> Such a procedure with both parties present and video-documented would
              >> reveal vital realities for both seller and potential buyer; hire a
              >> surveyor as the 3rd set of eyes and have thus certified on their
              >> letterhead what these tests revealed. Both approaches assume that
              >> you then carefully re-seal the test-holes again, and reinsert/re-epoxy
              >> that 'plug' (with a backing-piece over the plug if need be). We're
              >> talking carefully chosen de facto biopsy-sites...
              >>
              >> The more you consider these options, the less mysterious the epoxied,
              >> glassed, insulated, and painted-over hull-structure might be. You use
              >> these in addition to tapping, grinding off selected patches of
              >> paint, and whatever other indicators seem sensible.
              >>
              >> Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
              >>
              >> ----- Original Message -----
              >> *From:* Douglas Pollard <mailto:dougpol1@...>
              >> *To:* bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>
              >> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:37 AM
              >> *Subject:* [bolger] a little food for thought
              >>
              >> I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
              >> sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as
              >> most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with
              >> the wood
              >> in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in
              >> a way
              >> you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an
              >> AS 29
              >> or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I
              >> might
              >> paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they join
              >> the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
              >> attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any buyer and
              >> myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
              >> This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or there
              >> but a
              >> piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
              >> I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
              >> wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
              >> painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
              >> condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her with a
              >> mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting
              >> like in
              >> the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I
              >> belive
              >> the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't be
              >> sure
              >> either.
              >> If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
              >> was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
              >> her. She would have been well worth the money.
              >> So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
              >> work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her
              >> over the
              >> years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
              >> not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily know
              >> do a
              >> few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
              >> possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older. Certainly
              >> surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden boat.
              >> Doug
              >>
              > =
              >
              >
            • tom s
              Absolutely true Doug. This is one reason I m of the epoxy only on the outside school. give one surface where the moisture can escape. I ve head arguments
              Message 6 of 28 , Sep 11, 2012
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                Absolutely true Doug.

                This is one reason I'm of the "epoxy only on the outside" school. give one surface where the moisture can escape. I've head arguments as to the glue line in the plys being vapor barriers though, so I'm still not 100% certain.

                Sent from my iPad

                On Sep 11, 2012, at 10:44 AM, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:

                > What you say is true but your Grandbanks is not epoxied inside.
                > Paint on wood bubbles up and loosens if moisture is underit. A keen eye
                > will spot most rot pretty quickly. Paint on epoxy will not blister to
                > the same extent so that is why I am saying with no paint over epoxy it
                > is easier to spot moisture.
                > Surveyors are reluctant to do any hole drilling and some will not
                > anymore for what ever reason. Of course many don't know anything about
                > wooden boats anyway. This of course would not keep me from buying but I
                > do expect to get paid for any risk I am taking so that comes off the
                > price I will pay. If the seller can eliminate my risk I may very well
                > pay his price?? I don't mind spending some money and doing some work
                > but I would like to know fairly easily how much, if I can.
                > Doug
                >
                > On 09/11/2012 12:29 PM, tom s wrote:
                >> I bought a 1967 grand banks to live on 7 years ago. plank on frame, but
                >> still a bit of a chance. I figured for the extra 35k it would have
                >> taken to get the same boat in glass I could fix quite a bit of hidden
                >> rot. still carefully inspected, but took some of the fear out. Now I
                >> have the warmer, quieter wood structure and all of the rot I've found
                >> has been in the plywood house and a bit in the bulwarks.
                >>
                >> Point is, compare the cost to new and figure your "budget" for repair,
                >> then make the decision.
                >>
                >> Tom
                >>
                >> Sent from my iPad
                >>
                >> On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:29 AM, <philbolger@...
                >> <mailto:philbolger@...>> wrote:
                >>
                >>> One could argue that relative moisture-levels and spore-presence might
                >>> offer an indication of relative 'age' of such structures.
                >>>
                >>> I would think that carefully chosen 'test-sites' in the painted and
                >>> even insulated hull-structure could be drilled into from the inside to
                >>> a clearly-defined depth in order to insert a moisture-meter and/or
                >>> take wood-dust samples for basic assessment of that area - all without
                >>> violating the outside water-tight integrity. Taking actual
                >>> core-drillings is another more radical option.
                >>>
                >>> Such a procedure with both parties present and video-documented would
                >>> reveal vital realities for both seller and potential buyer; hire a
                >>> surveyor as the 3rd set of eyes and have thus certified on their
                >>> letterhead what these tests revealed. Both approaches assume that
                >>> you then carefully re-seal the test-holes again, and reinsert/re-epoxy
                >>> that 'plug' (with a backing-piece over the plug if need be). We're
                >>> talking carefully chosen de facto biopsy-sites...
                >>>
                >>> The more you consider these options, the less mysterious the epoxied,
                >>> glassed, insulated, and painted-over hull-structure might be. You use
                >>> these in addition to tapping, grinding off selected patches of
                >>> paint, and whatever other indicators seem sensible.
                >>>
                >>> Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                >>>
                >>> ----- Original Message -----
                >>> *From:* Douglas Pollard <mailto:dougpol1@...>
                >>> *To:* bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:37 AM
                >>> *Subject:* [bolger] a little food for thought
                >>>
                >>> I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
                >>> sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as
                >>> most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with
                >>> the wood
                >>> in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in
                >>> a way
                >>> you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an
                >>> AS 29
                >>> or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I
                >>> might
                >>> paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they join
                >>> the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
                >>> attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any buyer and
                >>> myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
                >>> This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or there
                >>> but a
                >>> piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
                >>> I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
                >>> wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
                >>> painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
                >>> condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her with a
                >>> mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting
                >>> like in
                >>> the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I
                >>> belive
                >>> the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't be
                >>> sure
                >>> either.
                >>> If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
                >>> was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
                >>> her. She would have been well worth the money.
                >>> So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
                >>> work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her
                >>> over the
                >>> years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
                >>> not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily know
                >>> do a
                >>> few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
                >>> possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older. Certainly
                >>> surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden boat.
                >>> Doug
                >>>
                >> =
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
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                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • sirdarnell
                Epoxy that will be exposed to sunlight needs to be painted. Sunlight causes it to break down.
                Message 7 of 28 , Sep 12, 2012
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                  Epoxy that will be exposed to sunlight needs to be painted. Sunlight causes it to break down.

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
                  > sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as
                  > most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with the wood
                  > in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in a way
                  > you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an AS 29
                  > or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I might
                  > paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they join
                  > the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
                  > attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any buyer and
                  > myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
                  > This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or there but a
                  > piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
                  > I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
                  > wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
                  > painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
                  > condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her with a
                  > mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting like in
                  > the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I belive
                  > the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't be sure
                  > either.
                  > If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
                  > was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
                  > her. She would have been well worth the money.
                  > So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
                  > work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her over the
                  > years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
                  > not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily know do a
                  > few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
                  > possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older. Certainly
                  > surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden boat.
                  > Doug
                  >
                • Douglas Pollard
                  Yes thats true and varnish does do that. Still the surfaces I am talking about are inside the boat so they are pretty well protected. No one should think I am
                  Message 8 of 28 , Sep 12, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yes thats true and varnish does do that. Still the surfaces I am
                    talking about are inside the boat so they are pretty well protected.
                    No one should think I am disapproving of wood and glass. It is my
                    material of choice. I also think wood has taken a bad rap and would be
                    better trusted by boat boat users in general if you could go aboard and
                    see if the boats is healthy or not. If a person doesn't know, he has to
                    do a contract on the boat in order to get her surveyed. To bother at all
                    he needs a little evidence that she is worth doing all that. I have
                    looked at a lot of boats, glass wood and metals most I reject out of
                    hand for one reason or another. All are boats that would possibly do
                    what I want to do. I never even go to the point of getting a survey
                    because of things I saw. But so if there was something about the boat
                    that encouraged me I might have gone farther with a deal. I have a boat
                    and will likely use it for a years or so but I will buy a boat to live
                    on and cruse. Anything that makes her easier to buy, will surely
                    encourage me. A few pictures of a naturally finished interior will
                    likely send me packing a thousand miles to go look at her if she suites
                    my purpose. If she is painted inside then all I have to go on is
                    whether she looks well cared for or not. Doug


                    On 09/12/2012 10:32 AM, sirdarnell wrote:
                    > Epoxy that will be exposed to sunlight needs to be painted. Sunlight
                    > causes it to break down.
                    >
                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, Douglas
                    > Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
                    > > sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as
                    > > most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with the wood
                    > > in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in a way
                    > > you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an AS 29
                    > > or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I might
                    > > paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they join
                    > > the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
                    > > attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any buyer and
                    > > myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
                    > > This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or there but a
                    > > piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
                    > > I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
                    > > wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
                    > > painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
                    > > condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her with a
                    > > mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting like in
                    > > the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I belive
                    > > the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't be sure
                    > > either.
                    > > If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
                    > > was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
                    > > her. She would have been well worth the money.
                    > > So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
                    > > work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her over the
                    > > years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
                    > > not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily know do a
                    > > few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
                    > > possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older. Certainly
                    > > surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden boat.
                    > > Doug
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                  • philbolger@comcast.net
                    Can you boil down your net requirements for your live-aboard ? Perhaps there are option in the archive or based on what we have. Susanne Altenburger, PB&F ...
                    Message 9 of 28 , Sep 12, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Can you boil down your net requirements for your live-aboard ?
                      Perhaps there are option in the archive or based on what we have.
                      Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Douglas Pollard" <dougpol1@...>
                      To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:14 AM
                      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: a little food for thought


                      >
                      >
                      > Yes thats true and varnish does do that. Still the surfaces I am
                      > talking about are inside the boat so they are pretty well protected.
                      > No one should think I am disapproving of wood and glass. It is my
                      > material of choice. I also think wood has taken a bad rap and would be
                      > better trusted by boat boat users in general if you could go aboard and
                      > see if the boats is healthy or not. If a person doesn't know, he has to
                      > do a contract on the boat in order to get her surveyed. To bother at all
                      > he needs a little evidence that she is worth doing all that. I have
                      > looked at a lot of boats, glass wood and metals most I reject out of
                      > hand for one reason or another. All are boats that would possibly do
                      > what I want to do. I never even go to the point of getting a survey
                      > because of things I saw. But so if there was something about the boat
                      > that encouraged me I might have gone farther with a deal. I have a boat
                      > and will likely use it for a years or so but I will buy a boat to live
                      > on and cruse. Anything that makes her easier to buy, will surely
                      > encourage me. A few pictures of a naturally finished interior will
                      > likely send me packing a thousand miles to go look at her if she suites
                      > my purpose. If she is painted inside then all I have to go on is
                      > whether she looks well cared for or not. Doug
                      >
                      >
                      > On 09/12/2012 10:32 AM, sirdarnell wrote:
                      >> Epoxy that will be exposed to sunlight needs to be painted. Sunlight
                      >> causes it to break down.
                      >>
                      >> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, Douglas
                      >> Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> > I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
                      >> > sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as
                      >> > most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with the
                      >> wood
                      >> > in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in a
                      >> way
                      >> > you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an AS 29
                      >> > or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I
                      >> might
                      >> > paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they join
                      >> > the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
                      >> > attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any buyer and
                      >> > myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
                      >> > This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or there but
                      >> a
                      >> > piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
                      >> > I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
                      >> > wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
                      >> > painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
                      >> > condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her with a
                      >> > mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting like
                      >> in
                      >> > the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I
                      >> belive
                      >> > the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't be sure
                      >> > either.
                      >> > If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
                      >> > was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
                      >> > her. She would have been well worth the money.
                      >> > So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
                      >> > work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her over
                      >> the
                      >> > years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
                      >> > not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily know do a
                      >> > few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
                      >> > possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older. Certainly
                      >> > surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden boat.
                      >> > Doug
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Bolger rules!!!
                      > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
                      > horses
                      > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                      > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                      > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
                      > (978) 282-1349
                      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo!
                      > Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Douglas Pollard
                      I would like a little less than a blue water sharpie. Leeboards would be nice but centerboard would be OK. I like the sprite booms Mr. Bolger Favored. Still
                      Message 10 of 28 , Sep 12, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I would like a little less than a blue water sharpie. Leeboards would
                        be nice but centerboard would be OK. I like the sprite booms Mr. Bolger
                        Favored. Still I am getting old so maybe a junk rig would be easy to
                        Reef and easy for my wife if she has to come home alone. I like a ketch
                        or schooner but a yawl will work. Free standing masts are essential to
                        the rigs I like. Without stays, head sails are out. I want an inboard
                        engine with plenty of fuel and water. I want a hand operated anchor
                        windlass with enough bowsprit to hang Anchors on. I want standing
                        headroom through most of the cabin Galley and head. At least 4
                        bunks.Comfortable live aboard accommodations I don't think I can
                        convince my wife to camp on a boat for the next ten years. I would be
                        willing to consider stayed rigs in a ketch or schooner if the rest of
                        the boat suited me.. Shallow draft for me would be less than 3ft. I
                        would think a boat like I am describing would likely be in the 32 to
                        36ft range. A little on the wide side would be Ok as speed is no longer
                        necessary to us. I would like a wood core with glass outside marine or
                        equivalent plywood.. I want a cockpit long enough to stretch out in. I
                        am 5' 6" so that is a fairly short one head room 6ft would be great. I
                        would like masts that fold down. We will want pressurized hot and cold
                        water. We will not be camping aboard we will be living aboard for a long
                        time the the accommodations need to be in accordance with that life
                        style. I would like to not spend over $50,000 so she would not be a
                        newer boat. I can get most of what I want in a production glass boat
                        that has pretty much been redone recently, with fairly new or rebuilt
                        engine and in very nice condition. The trouble is it is not what I want.
                        Such a boat will primarily be used in inland waterways and rivers
                        with occasional trips to the Bahamas. We may pick our days and skip down
                        island a ways. Doug

                        On 09/12/2012 11:47 AM, philbolger@... wrote:
                        > Can you boil down your net requirements for your live-aboard ?
                        > Perhaps there are option in the archive or based on what we have.
                        > Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Douglas Pollard" <dougpol1@...>
                        > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:14 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: a little food for thought
                        >
                        >
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Yes thats true and varnish does do that. Still the surfaces I am
                        >> talking about are inside the boat so they are pretty well protected.
                        >> No one should think I am disapproving of wood and glass. It is my
                        >> material of choice. I also think wood has taken a bad rap and would be
                        >> better trusted by boat boat users in general if you could go aboard and
                        >> see if the boats is healthy or not. If a person doesn't know, he has to
                        >> do a contract on the boat in order to get her surveyed. To bother at all
                        >> he needs a little evidence that she is worth doing all that. I have
                        >> looked at a lot of boats, glass wood and metals most I reject out of
                        >> hand for one reason or another. All are boats that would possibly do
                        >> what I want to do. I never even go to the point of getting a survey
                        >> because of things I saw. But so if there was something about the boat
                        >> that encouraged me I might have gone farther with a deal. I have a boat
                        >> and will likely use it for a years or so but I will buy a boat to live
                        >> on and cruse. Anything that makes her easier to buy, will surely
                        >> encourage me. A few pictures of a naturally finished interior will
                        >> likely send me packing a thousand miles to go look at her if she suites
                        >> my purpose. If she is painted inside then all I have to go on is
                        >> whether she looks well cared for or not. Doug
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> On 09/12/2012 10:32 AM, sirdarnell wrote:
                        >>> Epoxy that will be exposed to sunlight needs to be painted. Sunlight
                        >>> causes it to break down.
                        >>>
                        >>> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, Douglas
                        >>> Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                        >>> >
                        >>> > I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
                        >>> > sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over wood as
                        >>> > most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with the
                        >>> wood
                        >>> > in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in a
                        >>> way
                        >>> > you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an AS 29
                        >>> > or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I
                        >>> might
                        >>> > paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they join
                        >>> > the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
                        >>> > attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any buyer and
                        >>> > myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
                        >>> > This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or there but
                        >>> a
                        >>> > piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
                        >>> > I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
                        >>> > wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
                        >>> > painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
                        >>> > condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her with a
                        >>> > mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting like
                        >>> in
                        >>> > the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I
                        >>> belive
                        >>> > the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't be sure
                        >>> > either.
                        >>> > If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
                        >>> > was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
                        >>> > her. She would have been well worth the money.
                        >>> > So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
                        >>> > work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her over
                        >>> the
                        >>> > years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
                        >>> > not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily know do a
                        >>> > few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
                        >>> > possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older. Certainly
                        >>> > surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden boat.
                        >>> > Doug
                        >>> >
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> ------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> Bolger rules!!!
                        >> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                        >> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
                        >> horses
                        >> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                        >> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                        >> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
                        >> (978) 282-1349
                        >> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo!
                        >> Groups Links
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Bolger rules!!!
                        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Peter
                        ... The Bolger Scow Schooner?
                        Message 11 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > I would like a little less than a blue water sharpie.

                          The Bolger Scow Schooner?
                        • Douglas Pollard
                          Sorry I didn t get back. My spam assin put the post in Junk. I like her a lot and I bet she is a screamer off the wind with that stay sail set on the main.
                          Message 12 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Sorry I didn't get back. My spam assin put the post in Junk.
                            I like her a lot and I bet she is a screamer off the wind with that
                            stay sail set on the main. If there was one about thirty five feet with
                            a long cabin she would be wonderful. I don't think Bolgers scow has
                            been built and it's a shame as scows are nice roomy boats. That 28ft
                            boat likely has more room than the average 35 footer. Scows are great
                            boats and one heck of a lot faster than most people think and are
                            perfect foe inland and coastal cruising. Doug
                            On 09/13/2012 09:23 AM, Peter wrote:
                            > > I would like a little less than a blue water sharpie.
                            >
                            > The Bolger Scow Schooner?
                            >
                            >
                          • Douglas Pollard
                            One of the great things about a scow is that they were made to carry heavy loads. What could be better for a live aborder than a boat with it s width having so
                            Message 13 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              One of the great things about a scow is that they were made to carry
                              heavy loads. What could be better for a live aborder than a boat with
                              it's width having so much buoyancy and it's shallow draft allowing the
                              family to sneak up into the back end of a creek to be visited by Osprey
                              and eagle. Thanks to clean water people, people do not build on land
                              that is fronted by marshes. There is no place to tie up their boat. That
                              leaves the most beautiful places on the water to anchor and enjoy if
                              your boat is shallow draft.
                              A finely shaped narrowish kind of boat is wonderful when empty.
                              They are fast and responsive. Then you move aboard all the things you
                              need and all the things you can't part with onboard and she then goes
                              down in the water to become a slug. At this point Mr. BOlgers scow
                              loaded with all my junk begins to look pretty fast.
                              My last post said it would need to be longer but I am not so sure
                              that 28 ft is not long enough. I couldn't find her width in the sites I
                              looked at. Maybe if I were to do anything it might be to to widen her a
                              little?? It would make her shallower draft when loaded. With a long
                              cabin that is tall enough to give standing headroom and maybe raise her
                              bullwaks a little to hide the cabin hight if she looked top heavy.
                              Really if she is wide enough 28 ft might well be long enough if she is
                              fairly wide. I like her. Doug


                              On 09/13/2012 09:55 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:
                              > Sorry I didn't get back. My spam assin put the post in Junk.
                              > I like her a lot and I bet she is a screamer off the wind with that
                              > stay sail set on the main. If there was one about thirty five feet with
                              > a long cabin she would be wonderful. I don't think Bolgers scow has
                              > been built and it's a shame as scows are nice roomy boats. That 28ft
                              > boat likely has more room than the average 35 footer. Scows are great
                              > boats and one heck of a lot faster than most people think and are
                              > perfect foe inland and coastal cruising. Doug
                              > On 09/13/2012 09:23 AM, Peter wrote:
                              >> > I would like a little less than a blue water sharpie.
                              >>
                              >> The Bolger Scow Schooner?
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Bolger rules!!!
                              > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                              > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                              > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                              > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                              > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • philbolger@comcast.net
                              Actual expected weight of the proposed craft might be more useful to zero-in on, particularly the actual amount of weights you refer to as adding up beyond the
                              Message 14 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Actual expected weight of the proposed craft might be more useful to zero-in on, particularly the actual amount of weights you refer to as adding up beyond the capacities of longer&leaner sharpies for instance.

                                Length is much less indicative since no one knows on what hull-draft, beam, weight, etc.  Wide-spread presumed to be an indicator of a boat's size it only gives you the length, but not her mass or any other indication.  Now, if you did length x displacement on a monohull we'd be talking understandable and thus comparable realities.  And hull-weight - not length - would be a reasonable indicator of likely hull-materials cost.

                                There are plenty of repo'd boats out there that are wide for their length, perhaps full of liabilities - such as single-season habitability - and other 'optimistic' assumptions about systems, but likely 'turn-key' for your quoted budget or less.

                                Your challenge may be basic decisions about proportions and expected weights you'd bring aboard.  As broadly illustrated throughout our archive, a long lean sharpie can carry the same weight but likely way faster and with an easier motion than a short wide type of same final loaded displacement and thus likely cost.

                                Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:46 AM
                                Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Douglas Pollard's 'Dream'

                                 

                                One of the great things about a scow is that they were made to carry
                                heavy loads. What could be better for a live aborder than a boat with
                                it's width having so much buoyancy and it's shallow draft allowing the
                                family to sneak up into the back end of a creek to be visited by Osprey
                                and eagle. Thanks to clean water people, people do not build on land
                                that is fronted by marshes. There is no place to tie up their boat. That
                                leaves the most beautiful places on the water to anchor and enjoy if
                                your boat is shallow draft.
                                A finely shaped narrowish kind of boat is wonderful when empty.
                                They are fast and responsive. Then you move aboard all the things you
                                need and all the things you can't part with onboard and she then goes
                                down in the water to become a slug. At this point Mr. BOlgers scow
                                loaded with all my junk begins to look pretty fast.
                                My last post said it would need to be longer but I am not so sure
                                that 28 ft is not long enough. I couldn't find her width in the sites I
                                looked at. Maybe if I were to do anything it might be to to widen her a
                                little?? It would make her shallower draft when loaded. With a long
                                cabin that is tall enough to give standing headroom and maybe raise her
                                bullwaks a little to hide the cabin hight if she looked top heavy.
                                Really if she is wide enough 28 ft might well be long enough if she is
                                fairly wide. I like her. Doug

                                On 09/13/2012 09:55 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:
                                > Sorry I didn't get back. My spam assin put the post in Junk.
                                > I like her a lot and I bet she is a screamer off the wind with that
                                > stay sail set on the main. If there was one about thirty five feet with
                                > a long cabin she would be wonderful. I don't think Bolgers scow has
                                > been built and it's a shame as scows are nice roomy boats. That 28ft
                                > boat likely has more room than the average 35 footer. Scows are great
                                > boats and one heck of a lot faster than most people think and are
                                > perfect foe inland and coastal cruising. Doug
                                > On 09/13/2012 09:23 AM, Peter wrote:
                                >> > I would like a little less than a blue water sharpie.
                                >>
                                >> The Bolger Scow Schooner?
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Bolger rules!!!
                                > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >

                              • Douglas Pollard
                                Just talked to my son on the telephone. He, says. Dad go on off on your little boat for a year or so. Leave the plans here with a pile of lumber and all us
                                Message 15 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Just talked to my son on the telephone. He, says. Dad go on off on
                                  your little boat for a year or so. Leave the plans here with a pile of
                                  lumber and all us house builders will build her for you.
                                  I have a half a dozen that are good construction workers ( sons and
                                  Grandsons) with a couple books on boat building I am sure they could
                                  build her. IF I buy some beer they really would do it, they can't even
                                  build a house without it, so I know they would need some to build a boat.
                                  Does anyone know what her dimensions are, beam draft mast hight. I
                                  may order a set of study drawings? Doug



                                  On 09/13/2012 10:46 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:
                                  > One of the great things about a scow is that they were made to carry
                                  > heavy loads. What could be better for a live aborder than a boat with
                                  > it's width having so much buoyancy and it's shallow draft allowing the
                                  > family to sneak up into the back end of a creek to be visited by Osprey
                                  > and eagle. Thanks to clean water people, people do not build on land
                                  > that is fronted by marshes. There is no place to tie up their boat. That
                                  > leaves the most beautiful places on the water to anchor and enjoy if
                                  > your boat is shallow draft.
                                  > A finely shaped narrowish kind of boat is wonderful when empty.
                                  > They are fast and responsive. Then you move aboard all the things you
                                  > need and all the things you can't part with onboard and she then goes
                                  > down in the water to become a slug. At this point Mr. BOlgers scow
                                  > loaded with all my junk begins to look pretty fast.
                                  > My last post said it would need to be longer but I am not so sure
                                  > that 28 ft is not long enough. I couldn't find her width in the sites I
                                  > looked at. Maybe if I were to do anything it might be to to widen her a
                                  > little?? It would make her shallower draft when loaded. With a long
                                  > cabin that is tall enough to give standing headroom and maybe raise her
                                  > bullwaks a little to hide the cabin hight if she looked top heavy.
                                  > Really if she is wide enough 28 ft might well be long enough if she is
                                  > fairly wide. I like her. Doug
                                  >
                                  > On 09/13/2012 09:55 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:
                                  > > Sorry I didn't get back. My spam assin put the post in Junk.
                                  > > I like her a lot and I bet she is a screamer off the wind with that
                                  > > stay sail set on the main. If there was one about thirty five feet with
                                  > > a long cabin she would be wonderful. I don't think Bolgers scow has
                                  > > been built and it's a shame as scows are nice roomy boats. That 28ft
                                  > > boat likely has more room than the average 35 footer. Scows are great
                                  > > boats and one heck of a lot faster than most people think and are
                                  > > perfect foe inland and coastal cruising. Doug
                                  > > On 09/13/2012 09:23 AM, Peter wrote:
                                  > >> > I would like a little less than a blue water sharpie.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> The Bolger Scow Schooner?
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > Bolger rules!!!
                                  > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                  > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
                                  > dead horses
                                  > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                  > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                  > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                                  > Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                  > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com> Yahoo! Groups
                                  > Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Peter
                                  I think the scow is 35 LOD. Sparred length would be 40 at least. You can furnish the interior from Home Depot and Ikea. In my amateur design efforts, I
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
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                                    I think the scow is 35' LOD. Sparred length would be 40' at least. You can furnish the interior from Home Depot and Ikea.

                                    In my amateur design efforts, I looked into a 4/5 size. That lowers the headroom under the deck, but I guess you could work in a house. One thing I learned was the truth of PCB's comment about designing a scow schooner with a full-length house not being easy. It's hard to make the jib work, so one of the rigs you prefer might work out better.

                                    While doodling scows, I also tried a 3X blowup of the Elegant Punt. He didn't put it this way, but PCB didn't like the idea of a full width flat bottom. He mentioned that heel would reduce pounding but he probably liked the idea that boat would give more warning before a capsize.

                                    If this was back in the halcyon days of Small Boat Journal, you could have written in and asked him to design a simplified junk. That would have been fun.

                                    Peter
                                  • Douglas Pollard
                                    I built his design Wolftrap in 1979 and one of the great things were the letters I received from him. I also have the Small boat journal with the boat in it.
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
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                                      I built his design Wolftrap in 1979 and one of the great things were
                                      the letters I received from him. I also have the Small boat journal with
                                      the boat in it. I still have them. That was all great fun. It wasn't
                                      so long ago that I pulled them out and read them. I thought them
                                      reminiscent of Joshua Slocum and Mark Twain combined.
                                      The boat I was looking at was called a 28 was that a waterline
                                      length??
                                      Doug

                                      On 09/13/2012 12:08 PM, Peter wrote:
                                      > I think the scow is 35' LOD. Sparred length would be 40' at least. You
                                      > can furnish the interior from Home Depot and Ikea.
                                      >
                                      > In my amateur design efforts, I looked into a 4/5 size. That lowers the
                                      > headroom under the deck, but I guess you could work in a house. One
                                      > thing I learned was the truth of PCB's comment about designing a scow
                                      > schooner with a full-length house not being easy. It's hard to make the
                                      > jib work, so one of the rigs you prefer might work out better.
                                      >
                                      > While doodling scows, I also tried a 3X blowup of the Elegant Punt. He
                                      > didn't put it this way, but PCB didn't like the idea of a full width
                                      > flat bottom. He mentioned that heel would reduce pounding but he
                                      > probably liked the idea that boat would give more warning before a capsize.
                                      >
                                      > If this was back in the halcyon days of Small Boat Journal, you could
                                      > have written in and asked him to design a simplified junk. That would
                                      > have been fun.
                                      >
                                      > Peter
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Mark Albanese
                                      Doug, The SBJ Scow Schooner you may mean is reprinted in BWAOM, chapter 41. While wonderful for some purposes, I doubt you d want to live in it for very long.
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
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                                        Doug,

                                        The SBJ Scow Schooner you may mean is reprinted in BWAOM, chapter 41.
                                        While wonderful for some purposes, I doubt you'd want to live in it
                                        for very long. It is 28 x 9'10"x15".The upright waterline is just
                                        19'. Could sleep two, daysail six, but the cabin is very small and
                                        the hold 8'x8'x3'.


                                        On Sep 13, 2012, at 9:34 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

                                        > I built his design Wolftrap in 1979 and one of the great things were
                                        > the letters I received from him. I also have the Small boat journal
                                        > with
                                        > the boat in it. I still have them. That was all great fun. It wasn't
                                        > so long ago that I pulled them out and read them. I thought them
                                        > reminiscent of Joshua Slocum and Mark Twain combined.
                                        > The boat I was looking at was called a 28 was that a waterline
                                        > length??
                                        > Doug
                                        >
                                        > On 09/13/2012 12:08 PM, Peter wrote:
                                        >> I think the scow is 35' LOD. Sparred length would be 40' at least.
                                        >> You
                                        >> can furnish the interior from Home Depot and Ikea.
                                        >>
                                        >> In my amateur design efforts, I looked into a 4/5 size. That
                                        >> lowers the
                                        >> headroom under the deck, but I guess you could work in a house. One
                                        >> thing I learned was the truth of PCB's comment about designing a scow
                                        >> schooner with a full-length house not being easy. It's hard to
                                        >> make the
                                        >> jib work, so one of the rigs you prefer might work out better.
                                        >>
                                        >> While doodling scows, I also tried a 3X blowup of the Elegant
                                        >> Punt. He
                                        >> didn't put it this way, but PCB didn't like the idea of a full width
                                        >> flat bottom. He mentioned that heel would reduce pounding but he
                                        >> probably liked the idea that boat would give more warning before a
                                        >> capsize.
                                        >>
                                        >> If this was back in the halcyon days of Small Boat Journal, you could
                                        >> have written in and asked him to design a simplified junk. That would
                                        >> have been fun.
                                        >>
                                        >> Peter
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Bolger rules!!!
                                        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
                                        > dead horses
                                        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
                                        > posts
                                        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                                        > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • harrystone.24755
                                        ... That 8 x 8 hold , if thought out , could make for fine accommodation ......No reason that boat could not be built slightly larger either ...it`s a scow
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
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                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Doug,
                                          >
                                          > The SBJ Scow Schooner you may mean is reprinted in BWAOM, chapter 41.
                                          > While wonderful for some purposes, I doubt you'd want to live in it
                                          > for very long. It is 28 x 9'10"x15".The upright waterline is just
                                          > 19'. Could sleep two, daysail six, but the cabin is very small and
                                          > the hold 8'x8'x3'.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >

                                          That 8 x 8 " hold " , if thought out , could make for fine accommodation ......No reason that boat could not be built slightly larger either ...it`s a scow ...not hard to do.
                                        • Peter
                                          The MAIB article on the Liveaboard Scow Schooner is in Files here: http://tinyurl.com/8cbr8vo
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
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                                            The MAIB article on the Liveaboard Scow Schooner is in Files here:
                                            http://tinyurl.com/8cbr8vo

                                            >
                                            > Doug,
                                            >
                                            > The SBJ Scow Schooner you may mean is reprinted in BWAOM, chapter 41.
                                            > While wonderful for some purposes, I doubt you'd want to live in it
                                            > for very long. It is 28 x 9'10"x15".The upright waterline is just
                                            > 19'. Could sleep two, daysail six, but the cabin is very small and
                                            > the hold 8'x8'x3'.
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Ed Drapela
                                            Might want to look Ruel Parkers designs - he has a couple of scow schooners. From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
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                                              Might want to look Ruel Parkers designs – he has a couple of scow schooners.

                                               

                                              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
                                              Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:09 PM
                                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [bolger] Re: Douglas Pollard's 'Dream'

                                               

                                               

                                              I think the scow is 35' LOD. Sparred length would be 40' at least. You can furnish the interior from Home Depot and Ikea.

                                              In my amateur design efforts, I looked into a 4/5 size. That lowers the headroom under the deck, but I guess you could work in a house. One thing I learned was the truth of PCB's comment about designing a scow schooner with a full-length house not being easy. It's hard to make the jib work, so one of the rigs you prefer might work out better.

                                              While doodling scows, I also tried a 3X blowup of the Elegant Punt. He didn't put it this way, but PCB didn't like the idea of a full width flat bottom. He mentioned that heel would reduce pounding but he probably liked the idea that boat would give more warning before a capsize.

                                              If this was back in the halcyon days of Small Boat Journal, you could have written in and asked him to design a simplified junk. That would have been fun.

                                              Peter

                                            • Douglas Pollard
                                              Yes I like his sharpies but most are way out of my price range. I did see one for sale in Florida a few years ago. I had a Friend to go look ate her. He
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
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                                                Yes I like his sharpies but most are way out of my price range. I did
                                                see one for sale in Florida a few years ago. I had a Friend to go look
                                                ate her. He thought she was not worth fooling with and she didn't meet
                                                the headroom I want. The price was really cheap $13.000 and if someone
                                                really wanted a project she would have eben a good on. They bring enough
                                                that $ 30.000 could have been spent on hear and still not get hurt to bad.



                                                On 09/13/2012 04:52 PM, Ed Drapela wrote:
                                                > Might want to look Ruel Parkers designs – he has a couple of scow schooners.
                                                >
                                                > *From:*bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf
                                                > Of *Peter
                                                > *Sent:* Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:09 PM
                                                > *To:* bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                > *Subject:* [bolger] Re: Douglas Pollard's 'Dream'
                                                >
                                                > I think the scow is 35' LOD. Sparred length would be 40' at least. You
                                                > can furnish the interior from Home Depot and Ikea.
                                                >
                                                > In my amateur design efforts, I looked into a 4/5 size. That lowers the
                                                > headroom under the deck, but I guess you could work in a house. One
                                                > thing I learned was the truth of PCB's comment about designing a scow
                                                > schooner with a full-length house not being easy. It's hard to make the
                                                > jib work, so one of the rigs you prefer might work out better.
                                                >
                                                > While doodling scows, I also tried a 3X blowup of the Elegant Punt. He
                                                > didn't put it this way, but PCB didn't like the idea of a full width
                                                > flat bottom. He mentioned that heel would reduce pounding but he
                                                > probably liked the idea that boat would give more warning before a capsize.
                                                >
                                                > If this was back in the halcyon days of Small Boat Journal, you could
                                                > have written in and asked him to design a simplified junk. That would
                                                > have been fun.
                                                >
                                                > Peter
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Mark Albanese
                                                Would this be too small? Too spartan? Fit your budget? Fast enough building to get you out there soon?  ... Would this be too small? Too spartan? Fit your
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
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                                                • 162 KB
                                                Would this be too small? Too spartan? Fit your budget? Fast enough building to get you out there soon?
                                              • Joe T
                                                Any mention of scows brings to mind the Periauger Scow in Pete Culler s Boats by John Burke. LOA 32ft, WL 27ft 8in, Beam 10ft, Draft 2ft, Sail, cat ketch,
                                                Message 24 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
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                                                  Any mention of scows brings to mind the Periauger Scow in "Pete Culler's Boats" by John Burke. LOA 32ft, WL 27ft 8in, Beam 10ft, Draft 2ft, Sail, cat ketch, 527sf. I lust for this design though I could never build it. Likely takes an experienced traditional boat-wright. V bottom with chines swept high at the bow. Culler designed this for himself, never built. His widow withheld the plans from sale when published in 1984. Could be available now? This it at the top of my list of beautiful boats, along with Gilmer's Blue Moon.

                                                  > The Bolger Scow Schooner?
                                                  >
                                                • Joe T
                                                  Culler s Periauger Scow --- Plans at Mystic Seaport: http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=objects&type=browse&f=maker&s=Robert+&record=1010 Lots of
                                                  Message 25 of 28 , Sep 13, 2012
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                                                  • Douglas Pollard
                                                    Message 26 of 28 , Sep 14, 2012
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                                                      On 09/14/2012 01:49 AM, Mark Albanese wrote:
                                                      > Would this be too small? Too spartan? Fit your budget? Fast enough
                                                      > building to get you out there soon?
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > On Sep 12, 2012, at 1:02 PM, Douglas Pollard wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >> I would like a little less than a blue water sharpie. Leeboards would
                                                      >> be nice but centerboard would be OK. I like the sprite booms Mr. Bolger
                                                      >> Favored. Still I am getting old so maybe a junk rig would be easy to
                                                      >> Reef and easy for my wife if she has to come home alone. I like a ketch
                                                      >> or schooner but a yawl will work. Free standing masts are essential to
                                                      >> the rigs I like. Without stays, head sails are out. I want an inboard
                                                      >> engine with plenty of fuel and water. I want a hand operated anchor
                                                      >> windlass with enough bowsprit to hang Anchors on. I want standing
                                                      >> headroom through most of the cabin Galley and head. At least 4
                                                      >> bunks.Comfortable live aboard accommodations I don't think I can
                                                      >> convince my wife to camp on a boat for the next ten years. I would be
                                                      >> willing to consider stayed rigs in a ketch or schooner if the rest of
                                                      >> the boat suited me.. Shallow draft for me would be less than 3ft. I
                                                      >> would think a boat like I am describing would likely be in the 32 to
                                                      >> 36ft range. A little on the wide side would be Ok as speed is no longer
                                                      >> necessary to us. I would like a wood core with glass outside marine or
                                                      >> equivalent plywood.. I want a cockpit long enough to stretch out in. I
                                                      >> am 5' 6" so that is a fairly short one head room 6ft would be great. I
                                                      >> would like masts that fold down. We will want pressurized hot and cold
                                                      >> water. We will not be camping aboard we will be living aboard for a long
                                                      >> time the the accommodations need to be in accordance with that life
                                                      >> style. I would like to not spend over $50,000 so she would not be a
                                                      >> newer boat. I can get most of what I want in a production glass boat
                                                      >> that has pretty much been redone recently, with fairly new or rebuilt
                                                      >> engine and in very nice condition. The trouble is it is not what I want.
                                                      >> Such a boat will primarily be used in inland waterways and rivers
                                                      >> with occasional trips to the Bahamas. We may pick our days and skip down
                                                      >> island a ways. Doug
                                                      >>
                                                      >> On 09/12/2012 11:47 AM, philbolger@...
                                                      >> <mailto:philbolger%40comcast.net> wrote:
                                                      >> > Can you boil down your net requirements for your live-aboard ?
                                                      >> > Perhaps there are option in the archive or based on what we have.
                                                      >> > Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      >> > From: "Douglas Pollard" <dougpol1@...
                                                      >> <mailto:dougpol1%40verizon.net>>
                                                      >> > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                                      >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:14 AM
                                                      >> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: a little food for thought
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >> Yes thats true and varnish does do that. Still the surfaces I am
                                                      >> >> talking about are inside the boat so they are pretty well protected.
                                                      >> >> No one should think I am disapproving of wood and glass. It is my
                                                      >> >> material of choice. I also think wood has taken a bad rap and would be
                                                      >> >> better trusted by boat boat users in general if you could go aboard and
                                                      >> >> see if the boats is healthy or not. If a person doesn't know, he has to
                                                      >> >> do a contract on the boat in order to get her surveyed. To bother
                                                      >> at all
                                                      >> >> he needs a little evidence that she is worth doing all that. I have
                                                      >> >> looked at a lot of boats, glass wood and metals most I reject out of
                                                      >> >> hand for one reason or another. All are boats that would possibly do
                                                      >> >> what I want to do. I never even go to the point of getting a survey
                                                      >> >> because of things I saw. But so if there was something about the boat
                                                      >> >> that encouraged me I might have gone farther with a deal. I have a boat
                                                      >> >> and will likely use it for a years or so but I will buy a boat to live
                                                      >> >> on and cruse. Anything that makes her easier to buy, will surely
                                                      >> >> encourage me. A few pictures of a naturally finished interior will
                                                      >> >> likely send me packing a thousand miles to go look at her if she suites
                                                      >> >> my purpose. If she is painted inside then all I have to go on is
                                                      >> >> whether she looks well cared for or not. Doug
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >> On 09/12/2012 10:32 AM, sirdarnell wrote:
                                                      >> >>> Epoxy that will be exposed to sunlight needs to be painted. Sunlight
                                                      >> >>> causes it to break down.
                                                      >> >>>
                                                      >> >>> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      >> <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, Douglas
                                                      >> >>> Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                                                      >> >>> >
                                                      >> >>> > I am wanting to buy a boat to live on. I would like to have a
                                                      >> >>> > sharpie big enough to live on. She would likely be glass over
                                                      >> wood as
                                                      >> >>> > most now are. One problem is you can't tell whats going on with the
                                                      >> >>> wood
                                                      >> >>> > in the construction if it's epoxied inside and then painted. So in a
                                                      >> >>> way
                                                      >> >>> > you could be buying a pig in a poke. IF I were going to build an
                                                      >> AS 29
                                                      >> >>> > or 39 I would epoxy her on the inside but I would not paint her. I
                                                      >> >>> might
                                                      >> >>> > paint non structural parts but not bulkheads at least where they
                                                      >> join
                                                      >> >>> > the hull and I would not paint the hull along the areas where it is
                                                      >> >>> > attached to frames and I would not paint the over head. Any
                                                      >> buyer and
                                                      >> >>> > myself as well could see any darkening wood that might be a problem.
                                                      >> >>> > This likely would tell me there is a little problem here or
                                                      >> there but
                                                      >> >>> a
                                                      >> >>> > piece or two of lumber a little work and I will have a new boat.
                                                      >> >>> > I looked at a really nice 36ft boat a few years ago. The fellow
                                                      >> >>> > wanted $30,000 and I offered $20,000 she was beautiful inside all
                                                      >> >>> > painted white but she was 40 years old but I think in excellent
                                                      >> >>> > condition. But how could I know. I could go around and tap her
                                                      >> with a
                                                      >> >>> > mallet in all the places where she was not likely to be rotting like
                                                      >> >>> in
                                                      >> >>> > the panels. But right next to stringers and frames not so easy. I
                                                      >> >>> belive
                                                      >> >>> > the owner did his best to maintain her except that he couldn't
                                                      >> be sure
                                                      >> >>> > either.
                                                      >> >>> > If I could looked all inside her and determined that everything
                                                      >> >>> > was OK I might have argued him down on general principles and bought
                                                      >> >>> > her. She would have been well worth the money.
                                                      >> >>> > So if I built such a boat I would attempt to take all the guess
                                                      >> >>> > work out for the potential buyer and for myself when using her over
                                                      >> >>> the
                                                      >> >>> > years. I think many boats are sold by the builders because they are
                                                      >> >>> > not sure things are not weakening in them. They could easily
                                                      >> know do a
                                                      >> >>> > few repares and continue sailing her for 30 or 40 years. It's even
                                                      >> >>> > possible the boat might get more valuable as it gets older.
                                                      >> Certainly
                                                      >> >>> > surviers would be less reluctant to give a thumbs up on a wooden
                                                      >> boat.
                                                      >> >>> > Doug
                                                      >> >>> >
                                                      >> >>>
                                                      >> >>>
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >> ------------------------------------
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >> Bolger rules!!!
                                                      >> >> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                                      >> >> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
                                                      >> >> horses
                                                      >> >> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                                      >> >> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                                      >> >> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                                                      >> 01930, Fax:
                                                      >> >> (978) 282-1349
                                                      >> >> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      >> >> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >> <mailto:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com> Yahoo!
                                                      >> >> Groups Links
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >>
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > ------------------------------------
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > Bolger rules!!!
                                                      >> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                                      >> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
                                                      >> dead horses
                                                      >> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                                      >> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                                      >> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                                                      >> Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                                      >> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      >> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >> <mailto:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com> Yahoo!
                                                      >> Groups Links
                                                      >> >
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                                                      >> >
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                                                    • Douglas Pollard
                                                      Joe she is a good looking boat actually kind of a yachtey looking boat. My wife is and I have been up since earlier in the morning talking about boats. She
                                                      Message 27 of 28 , Sep 14, 2012
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                                                        Joe she is a good looking boat actually kind of a yachtey looking boat.
                                                        My wife is and I have been up since earlier in the morning talking
                                                        about boats. She says, "Doug, you are not thinking. After those boys
                                                        build a boat. You will have all the real work left to do. Things like
                                                        spars rigging plumbing engine installation, steering and trimming out
                                                        the furniture so she looks at least respectable. We will need a
                                                        windlass, winches and on and on." I have to admit she is right. I am at
                                                        this moment thinking I will drive up and look at "Hogfish". I have no
                                                        idea what the asking price is or whether or not she is suitable to live
                                                        aboard or not. They are k living on her now with children so she may
                                                        well be just fine. I remember seeing her in the Bahamas and I remember
                                                        her as being a nice boat. The good news is I can sail and live aboard
                                                        my little boat a year or two and in that time just the right boat will
                                                        likely turn up. I might change my mind next week?? Doug

                                                        On 09/14/2012 02:46 AM, Joe T wrote:
                                                        > Culler's Periauger Scow --- Plans at Mystic Seaport:
                                                        > http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=objects&type=browse&f=maker&s=Robert+&record=1010
                                                        >
                                                        > Lots of hits on Google:
                                                        > https://www.google.com/search?q=Culler+Periaguer+Scow&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                      • Eric
                                                        Doug, you and your wife might want to check out this link. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/message/19452 The boat is larger than you have
                                                        Message 28 of 28 , Sep 19, 2012
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                                                          Doug, you and your wife might want to check out this link. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/message/19452 The boat is larger than you have envisioned, but it is a steel replica of China Cloud, a boat the ninety+ year old designer sails single handedly (If I remember his age correctly). It goes on sale this Fall. Perhaps worth your while to check out. You'll have to decide whether the original designer or the owner of this replica are more in line with your abilities to handle a vessel. Best wishes. And thanks for continuing to share your wisdom about boats and boat maintenance.

                                                          Eric

                                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Joe she is a good looking boat actually kind of a yachtey looking boat.
                                                          > My wife is and I have been up since earlier in the morning talking
                                                          > about boats. She says, "Doug, you are not thinking. After those boys
                                                          > build a boat. You will have all the real work left to do. Things like
                                                          > spars rigging plumbing engine installation, steering and trimming out
                                                          > the furniture so she looks at least respectable. We will need a
                                                          > windlass, winches and on and on." I have to admit she is right. I am at
                                                          > this moment thinking I will drive up and look at "Hogfish". I have no
                                                          > idea what the asking price is or whether or not she is suitable to live
                                                          > aboard or not. They are k living on her now with children so she may
                                                          > well be just fine. I remember seeing her in the Bahamas and I remember
                                                          > her as being a nice boat. The good news is I can sail and live aboard
                                                          > my little boat a year or two and in that time just the right boat will
                                                          > likely turn up. I might change my mind next week?? Doug
                                                          >
                                                          > On 09/14/2012 02:46 AM, Joe T wrote:
                                                          > > Culler's Periauger Scow --- Plans at Mystic Seaport:
                                                          > > http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=objects&type=browse&f=maker&s=Robert+&record=1010
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Lots of hits on Google:
                                                          > > https://www.google.com/search?q=Culler+Periaguer+Scow&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
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