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Catfish Beach Cruiser build.

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  • harrystone.24755
    I don`t know if this has been posted here before , but this is a nice Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 4, 2012
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      I don`t know if this  has been posted here before ,

       but this is a nice Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
    • kingerikxiv
      Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
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        Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.
      • John Trussell
        My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
        • 0 Attachment

          My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).  

           

          Have fun.

           

          JohnT

           


          From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
          Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.

           

           

          Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.

        • phil.bolger
          Good morning all. Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
          • 0 Attachment
            Good morning all.
                
            Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four. 
            The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safety 
            The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
            Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
            Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.

            However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
            On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !!  Reef early and often...
            This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
            When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice...
            BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...

            One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power ! 
            Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
            With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.

            Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
            Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
            Affordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on. 

            IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
            Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
            The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’  
                

            The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)

            Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
            Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AM
            Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
             
             

            My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne). 

            Have fun.

            JohnT


            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
            Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.

             

            Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.

          • Bill Howard
            Hello Susanne and others: Upstairs rests a partly built one-eighth scale BeachCat, from plans purchased from Instant Boats. Now I may have to finish the damn
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
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              Hello Susanne and others:

              Upstairs rests a partly built one-eighth scale BeachCat, from plans purchased from Instant Boats.  Now I may have to finish the damn thing, just to understand better this conversation.  Phil’s building key is rather succinct — and somewhat cryptic to this tyro — as are the instructions in Build the New Instant Boats by Dynamite Payson.

              What is “Sandbagger” rig-geometry?

              Bill Howard
              Nellysford, VA


              On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:29 AM, philbolger@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


              Good morning all.
                   
              Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.  
              The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safety  
              The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
              Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
              Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.

              However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
              On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !!  Reef early and often...
              This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
              When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice... 
              BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...

              One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !  
              Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
              With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.

              Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
              Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
              Affordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.  

              IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
              Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
              The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’   
                   

              The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)

              Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
              Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AM
              Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
               
               

              My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).  

              Have fun.

              JohnT


              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com ] 
              Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.

                

              Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.



            • phil.bolger
              Fairly normal mast-height but scary bow-sprits, long booms and lofty gaffs.
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
              • 0 Attachment
                Fairly normal mast-height but scary bow-sprits, long booms and lofty gaffs.

                https://www.google.com/search?q=sandbagger+sloop&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WdQKVbyAFZXLsAT93YGABA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&dpr=1

                Good shot here as well, i.e. smooth water and a fine bow-wave... http://www.schoonerman.com/sailingterms/sandbag.htm
                And : http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=related&kv=3763

                On BEACH CAT we may want to fixate on 300 sq. ft across ‘Sandbagger’-style main and jib vs. the ‘normal’ 139 ft.

                Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                 
                Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:50 AM
                Subject: Re: [bolger] Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                 
                 

                Hello Susanne and others:

                 
                Upstairs rests a partly built one-eighth scale BeachCat, from plans purchased from Instant Boats.  Now I may have to finish the damn thing, just to understand better this conversation.  Phil’s building key is rather succinct — and somewhat cryptic to this tyro — as are the instructions in Build the New Instant Boats by Dynamite Payson.
                 
                What is “Sandbagger” rig-geometry?
                 
                Bill Howard
                Nellysford, VA
                 
                 
                On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:29 AM, philbolger@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                 
                 
                Good morning all.
                     
                Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.  
                The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safety  
                The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
                Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
                Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.

                However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
                On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !!  Reef early and often...
                This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
                When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice... 
                BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...

                One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !  
                Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
                With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.

                Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
                Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
                Affordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.  

                IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
                Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
                The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’   
                     

                The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)

                Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AM
                Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                 
                 
                 

                My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).  

                Have fun.

                JohnT


                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com ] 
                Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.

                  

                Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.

                 
                 
              • Bill Howard
                Whoa! If I were 50 years younger such a rig would scare me to death! Now the pictures do! Thanks, Susanne, for the pics. Bill Howard Nellysford ... Whoa! If I
                Message 7 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
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                  Whoa!

                  If I were 50 years younger such a rig would scare me to death!

                  Now the pictures do!

                  Thanks, Susanne, for the pics.

                  Bill Howard
                  Nellysford
                  On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:59 AM, philbolger@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                  Fairly normal mast-height but scary bow-sprits, long booms and lofty gaffs.

                  https://www.google.com/search?q=sandbagger+sloop&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WdQKVbyAFZXLsAT93YGABA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&dpr=1

                  Good shot here as well, i.e. smooth water and a fine bow-wave... http://www.schoonerman.com/sailingterms/sandbag.htm
                  And : http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=related&kv=3763

                  On BEACH CAT we may want to fixate on 300 sq. ft across ‘Sandbagger’-style main and jib vs. the ‘normal’ 139 ft.

                  Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                   
                  Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:50 AM
                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                   
                   

                  Hello Susanne and others: 

                   
                  Upstairs rests a partly built one-eighth scale BeachCat, from plans purchased from Instant Boats.  Now I may have to finish the damn thing, just to understand better this conversation.  Phil’s building key is rather succinct — and somewhat cryptic to this tyro — as are the instructions in Build the New Instant Boats by Dynamite Payson. 
                   
                  What is “Sandbagger” rig-geometry?
                   
                  Bill Howard
                  Nellysford, VA
                   
                   
                  On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:29 AM, philbolger@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                   
                   
                  Good morning all.
                       
                  Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.  
                  The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safety  
                  The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
                  Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
                  Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.

                  However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
                  On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !!  Reef early and often...
                  This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
                  When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice... 
                  BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...

                  One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !  
                  Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
                  With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.

                  Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
                  Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
                  Affordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.  

                  IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
                  Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
                  The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’   
                       

                  The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)

                  Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                  Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AM
                  Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                   
                   
                   

                  My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).  

                  Have fun.

                  JohnT


                  From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com ] 
                  Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.

                    

                  Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.

                   
                   


                • Scot
                  Looks like great fun to me. Those rigs look like the dredging sailboats from Chesapeake and Delaware, what were they called? Sharpies, I guess this would make
                  Message 8 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Looks like great fun to me. Those rigs look like the dredging sailboats from Chesapeake and Delaware, what were they called? Sharpies, I guess this would make this one like a skipjack.

                    Oh wait, that's one of the styles PB&F specialized in. :) 

                    Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
                    Shoreline, CT
                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On Mar 19, 2015, at 10:31 AM, Bill Howard billh39@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Whoa!

                    If I were 50 years younger such a rig would scare me to death!

                    Now the pictures do!

                    Thanks, Susanne, for the pics.

                    Bill Howard
                    Nellysford
                    On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:59 AM, philbolger@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                    Fairly normal mast-height but scary bow-sprits, long booms and lofty gaffs.

                    https://www.google.com/search?q=sandbagger+sloop&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WdQKVbyAFZXLsAT93YGABA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&dpr=1

                    Good shot here as well, i.e. smooth water and a fine bow-wave... http://www.schoonerman.com/sailingterms/sandbag.htm
                    And : http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=related&kv=3763

                    On BEACH CAT we may want to fixate on 300 sq. ft across ‘Sandbagger’-style main and jib vs. the ‘normal’ 139 ft.

                    Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                     
                    Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:50 AM
                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                     
                     

                    Hello Susanne and others: 

                     
                    Upstairs rests a partly built one-eighth scale BeachCat, from plans purchased from Instant Boats.  Now I may have to finish the damn thing, just to understand better this conversation.  Phil’s building key is rather succinct — and somewhat cryptic to this tyro — as are the instructions in Build the New Instant Boats by Dynamite Payson. 
                     
                    What is “Sandbagger” rig-geometry?
                     
                    Bill Howard
                    Nellysford, VA
                     
                     
                    On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:29 AM, philbolger@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                     
                     
                    Good morning all.
                         
                    Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.  
                    The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safety  
                    The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
                    Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
                    Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.

                    However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
                    On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !!  Reef early and often...
                    This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
                    When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice... 
                    BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...

                    One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !  
                    Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
                    With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.

                    Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
                    Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
                    Affordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.  

                    IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
                    Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
                    The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’   
                         

                    The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)

                    Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                    Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AM
                    Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                     
                     
                     

                    My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).  

                    Have fun.

                    JohnT


                    From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com ] 
                    Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.

                      

                    Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.

                     
                     


                  • Christopher C. Wetherill
                    Skipjacks and Bugeyes (1 mast or 2) ... Skipjacks and Bugeyes (1 mast or 2) On 03/19/2015 10:47 AM, Scot scot.mcpherson@gmail.com [bolger] wrote: Looks like
                    Message 9 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Skipjacks and Bugeyes (1 mast or 2)

                      On 03/19/2015 10:47 AM, Scot scot.mcpherson@... [bolger] wrote:
                      Looks like great fun to me. Those rigs look like the dredging sailboats from Chesapeake and Delaware, what were they called? Sharpies, I guess this would make this one like a skipjack.

                      Oh wait, that's one of the styles PB&F specialized in. :) 

                      Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
                      Shoreline, CT
                      Sent from my iPhone

                      On Mar 19, 2015, at 10:31 AM, Bill Howard billh39@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Whoa!

                      If I were 50 years younger such a rig would scare me to death!

                      Now the pictures do!

                      Thanks, Susanne, for the pics.

                      Bill Howard
                      Nellysford
                      On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:59 AM, philbolger@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                      Fairly normal mast-height but scary bow-sprits, long booms and lofty gaffs.

                      https://www.google.com/search?q=sandbagger+sloop&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WdQKVbyAFZXLsAT93YGABA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&dpr=1

                      Good shot here as well, i.e. smooth water and a fine bow-wave... http://www.schoonerman.com/sailingterms/sandbag.htm
                      And : http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=related&kv=3763

                      On BEACH CAT we may want to fixate on 300 sq. ft across ‘Sandbagger’-style main and jib vs. the ‘normal’ 139 ft.

                      Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                       
                      Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:50 AM
                      Subject: Re: [bolger] Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                       
                       

                      Hello Susanne and others: 

                       
                      Upstairs rests a partly built one-eighth scale BeachCat, from plans purchased from Instant Boats.  Now I may have to finish the damn thing, just to understand better this conversation.  Phil’s building key is rather succinct — and somewhat cryptic to this tyro — as are the instructions in Build the New Instant Boats by Dynamite Payson. 
                       
                      What is “Sandbagger” rig-geometry?
                       
                      Bill Howard
                      Nellysford, VA
                       
                       
                      On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:29 AM, philbolger@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                       
                       
                      Good morning all.
                           
                      Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.  
                      The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safety  
                      The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
                      Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
                      Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.

                      However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
                      On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !!  Reef early and often...
                      This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
                      When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice... 
                      BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...

                      One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !  
                      Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
                      With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.

                      Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
                      Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
                      Affordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.  

                      IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
                      Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
                      The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’   
                           

                      The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)

                      Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                      Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AM
                      Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                       
                       
                       

                      My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).  

                      Have fun.

                    • phil.bolger
                      We’d rephrase that, Bill: “ We are duly respectful sailing this racer. The potentialities are significant....” meaning anyone not mindful of this rig
                      Message 10 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
                      • 0 Attachment
                        We’d rephrase that, Bill: “  We are duly respectful sailing this racer.  The potentialities are significant....”  meaning anyone not mindful of this rig has no business sailing aboard her.
                        Just one condition of becoming a member of that rare club of ‘Sandbagger Sailors’.
                        Phil and I watched the Mystic Seaport Sandbagger do its thing, and it is indeed spectacular despite – or because of – the modest body of tidal waters at the Museum.

                        Susanne Altenburger

                        Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 10:31 AM
                        Subject: Re: [bolger] Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                         
                         

                        Whoa!

                         
                        If I were 50 years younger such a rig would scare me to death!
                         
                        Now the pictures do!
                         
                        Thanks, Susanne, for the pics.
                         
                        Bill Howard
                        Nellysford
                        On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:59 AM, philbolger@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                         
                         
                        Fairly normal mast-height but scary bow-sprits, long booms and lofty gaffs.

                        https://www.google.com/search?q=sandbagger+sloop&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WdQKVbyAFZXLsAT93YGABA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&dpr=1

                        Good shot here as well, i.e. smooth water and a fine bow-wave... http://www.schoonerman.com/sailingterms/sandbag.htm
                        And : http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=related&kv=3763

                        On BEACH CAT we may want to fixate on 300 sq. ft across ‘Sandbagger’-style main and jib vs. the ‘normal’ 139 ft.

                        Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                         
                        Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:50 AM
                        Subject: Re: [bolger] Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                         
                         

                        Hello Susanne and others: 

                         
                        Upstairs rests a partly built one-eighth scale BeachCat, from plans purchased from Instant Boats.  Now I may have to finish the damn thing, just to understand better this conversation.  Phil’s building key is rather succinct — and somewhat cryptic to this tyro — as are the instructions in Build the New Instant Boats by Dynamite Payson. 
                         
                        What is “Sandbagger” rig-geometry?
                         
                        Bill Howard
                        Nellysford, VA
                         
                         
                        On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:29 AM, philbolger@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                         
                         
                        Good morning all.
                             
                        Catfish/Beach Cat Design #589 has been added to with an option to build just such a conventional catboat layout, adding 3 plans-sheets to the original four.  
                        The update now offers a centerboard between 6’8” long benches, with lockable locker-volumes ahead and behind for additional safety  
                        The under-slung rudder was retained to allow a centerline outboard-location further aft.
                        Of course, a traditional barn-door type rudder as on BOBCAT would be doable.
                        Otherwise, the same hull and same sail-plan.

                        However (!) I’ve thought for a while, especially after the ‘manic’ study based on BOBCAT and featured in MAIB Vol.31, #7 Nov.’13, that a ‘Sandbagger’-style oversized rig would be a fine challenge for a bunch of folks to try to control in light summer winds.
                        On BOBCAT, sail-area went from 110 to 250 sq. ft. !!  Reef early and often...
                        This wild rig would be a modular option to plant in a more or less standard hull.
                        When you’re about to sail her solo, then likely the regular rig would seem a prudent choice... 
                        BEACH CAT (#589) would actually be even better suited for this ‘mega-caffination’ of a mild-mannered Catboat, since she’d be able to carry 3-4 folks well-centered fore-&-aft, with one perhaps hanging in a trapeze...

                        One major point to make is that you’d never make these shapes plane with this power !  
                        Instead, a very light summer-breeze becomes the occasion to do full boiling hull-speed – a great visual spectacle.
                        With a ‘Sandbagger’ rig-geometry, the barn-door rudder would seem indeed called for.

                        Picture 2 to 3 to 5 of these showing off close to shore on a modest lake with onlookers exposed to quite a display.
                        Trees messing up the wind would add further spice to the proceedings.
                        Affordable thrills that might even challenge higher-end LASER-freaks since different reflexes would need drawing on.  

                        IF enough folks chip in, I’ll add to BEACH CAT a ‘Sand-Bagger’ Option.
                        Then you’d have to have several built to put on a great show – all without nano-tubes, carbon-drama or any dosages of Unobtainium involved.
                        The original ‘Sandbagger of Greater New York City were indeed ‘working stiffs racers’   
                             

                        The package for the updated #589 is US $150.- (but no ‘SANDBAGGER’-Option yet !)

                        Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                        Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:46 AM
                        Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                         
                         
                         

                        My recollection is that Catfish was originally designed as a cross between a scaled up Tinycat and a birdwatcher. One was built to the plans and was not apparently successful. as the Interior was not comfortable and it was difficult to see and trim the sail. Phil talked about redrawing the plans to show a narrower deck and more conventional interior. I don’t know if he ever did this. I think that traditional Cape Cod Cats have great form stability and they are very resistant to capsize. Therefore, the need for the recovery provided by a Birdwatcher type cabin is not very great. If I were building one today, I would cut down the sheer line a little, install narrow side decks, a more conventional cuddy, and fore and aft thwarts. I would also put in a centerboard rather than the shallow fixed keel. Having said all that, I would also note that naval architects in general and phil in particular are all a lot smarter than I am, And before making ant significant changes in any design, I would consult with the designer (in this case, Suzanne).  

                        Have fun.

                        JohnT


                        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com ] 
                        Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 7:32 AM
                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.

                          

                        Does anyone know of any other photos or websites showing the Catfish? This is the only one I can find.

                         
                         
                         
                         
                      • kingerikxiv
                        Susanne, is the centerboard actually in the center (i.e. through the keel) or is it off-center? Is a dagger board an option rather than a swinging board?
                        Message 11 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Susanne, is the "centerboard" actually in the center (i.e. through the keel) or is it off-center? Is a dagger board an option rather than a swinging board? Also, do the plans include a cuddy cabin option?

                          David

                          Adelaide

                        • phil.bolger
                          David, this is a ‘Catboat’-typical regular centerboard on (indeed !) the centerline. No daggerboard offered on her. One could be thought of, but I’d
                          Message 12 of 20 , Mar 19, 2015
                          • 0 Attachment
                            David,
                                 this is a ‘Catboat’-typical regular centerboard on (indeed !) the centerline. 
                            No daggerboard offered on her. 
                            One could be thought of, but I’d rather have the board come up by itself when it touches bottom, sailing in the catboat’s typical habitat – shallow coastal waters, estuaries, salt-marsh creeks.
                            Just a bigger BOBCAT.

                            No explicit cuddy-option on the plans, but obviously one could be figured out.
                            That would likely mean going with a barn-door rudder, thus moving the tiller further aft, along with the cockpit benches, which should open up a cuddy one might be able to huddle in/sleep one person in.

                            I’ll put this on my (endless !) list of ‘should-dos’, right after the ‘need-to-dos’, and well before the ‘like-to-dos’....
                            Of course, sometime the must- and like-to-dos are the same !
                            So make that 
                            - barn-door rudder,
                            - optional cuddy,
                            - and ‘Sandbagger Rig’.

                            At least after those 108+” of snow this winter, there may be no more shoveling-duties to be scheduled instead of design and archival work...

                            Susanne
                             
                             
                            Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 3:26 PM
                            Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.
                             
                             

                            Susanne, is the "centerboard" actually in the center (i.e. through the keel) or is it off-center? Is a dagger board an option rather than a swinging board? Also, do the plans include a cuddy cabin option?

                            David

                            Adelaide

                          • kingerikxiv
                            Thanks for your reply. In relation to the cuddy, I was thinking of not much more than what I have seen drawn for a canvas wind shield held up by a support,
                            Message 13 of 20 , Mar 20, 2015
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                              Thanks for your reply.

                              In relation to the cuddy, I was thinking of not much more than what I have seen drawn for a canvas wind shield held up by a support, easy enough to do something more permanent out of ply or even removeable when not needed, but to maintain looks something akin to the Cherbacco. Enough room to shelter from the wind, but slightly more than something like the SCAMP for example.

                              RE the board, I was just thinking that it's great not having the intrusion of a centreboard case in the middle of the cabin/cockpit. A daggerboard or even a pivot board offset to the edge of the bunk/seat would leave all of that wonderful legroom. Again, similar to the SCAMP. (Sorry I have mentioned SCAMP a couple of times now, it's a nice little boat, but I don't want one). I wasn't thinking about anything different at the back end at all.

                              I would be very interested to speak to anyonyone who has built and sailed a Catfish just to see how well they go with just the keel alone.

                              I'll keep thinking about this one. I have just restored a Hartley TS18 and have enjoyed it so far, but am considering if it is too big for my needs. A smaller boat with an unstayed mast and enough room for up to 4 people, the Catfish actually looks like a possibility.


                              Take care, and keep shovelling

                              David

                            • cluttonfred
                              Hello, all, from East Africa. I kicked around the idea of tackling Catfish years ago, but in the end I bought a set of Mouser plans, one of PCB s early
                              Message 14 of 20 , Mar 20, 2015
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                                Hello, all, from East Africa.  I kicked around the idea of tackling Catfish years ago, but in the end I bought a set of Mouser plans, one of PCB's early designs inspired by a catboat he sailed himself in his youth.

                                Mouser
                                Sail - 1,220lbs displ.
                                #11-55- 16' x6'6"
                                SmallBoats Ch#17, BDQ#13
                                Trailer-Sailer, chine catboat

                              • John Trussell
                                If it matters to anyone, Mike O Brien wrote up Mouser in Boat Design Quarterly #13. Mike owned and sailed a Mouser for 5 years and speaks highly of the design.
                                Message 15 of 20 , Mar 21, 2015
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                                  If it matters to anyone, Mike O’Brien wrote up Mouser in Boat Design Quarterly #13. Mike owned and sailed a Mouser for 5 years and speaks highly of the design. He does note that PCB designed this boat a long time ago (probably in th 60’s) and that the v-bottom is not “developable” and, therefore, not suitable for plywood.

                                   

                                  I note that Doug Hylan has tackled the non-developable bow sections on his Point Comfort Skiff by cold molding or double planking the forward third of the bottom. With epoxy and fiberglass sheathing, this is certainly a forgiving process.

                                   

                                  JohnT

                                   


                                  From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
                                  Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 2:22 AM
                                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build.

                                   

                                   

                                  Hello, all, from East Africa .  I kicked around the idea of tackling Catfish years ago, but in the end I bought a set of Mouser plans, one of PCB's early designs inspired by a catboat he sailed himself in his youth.

                                   

                                  Mouser

                                  Sail - 1,220lbs displ.

                                  #11-55- 16' x6'6"

                                  SmallBoats Ch#17, BDQ#13

                                  Trailer-Sailer, chine catboat

                                   

                                • cluttonfred
                                  That link isn t working, so I am attaching the Mouser pic from https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bolger/files/Mouser/
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Mar 21, 2015
                                  • 1 Attachment
                                  • 59 KB
                                  That link isn't working, so I am attaching the Mouser pic from https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bolger/files/Mouser/.


                                   

                                • phil.bolger
                                  “Thanks for sending that ‘Owl’, Moley...” No arguing with Phil nor Mike on this. Of course the much-later centerboard CATFISH/BEACHCAT of course would
                                  Message 17 of 20 , Mar 21, 2015
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    “Thanks for sending that ‘Owl’, Moley...”
                                    No arguing with Phil nor Mike on this.

                                    Of course the much-later centerboard CATFISH/BEACHCAT of course would follow the only slightly-less ‘much-later’ BOBCAT example of reasonably swift plywood construction, light-ish weight, and perfect trailer-ability...
                                    I mean from the local-, to the regional-, to the national Sand-Bagger Mania !

                                    Some of you may remember when during Phil later years several QUEEN MAB Catboats met in Boston at the M.I.T. Boathouse, with one arriving carried on the shoulder down from the apartment, down the road, into the Charles River, two inside a MiniVan, some on roof-racks...
                                    Get-togethers are part of the building-&sailing-your-own approach – in delightful contrast to the social life sterile factory-baked hulls.

                                    Did I mention that a BEACHCAT ‘Sandbagger’ really should be built, mastered under sail, and then video’d for widespread messing with hard-core LASER/420/505/etc.sailors’ self-respect ??
                                    Just in case I was too subtle on this ...

                                    If someone commits to one, there would be the modifications on separate sheet ( s).

                                    Susanne Altenburger, PB&F 
                                     

                                     

                                     
                                     
                                    Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 9:15 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beach Cruiser build. [1 Attachment]
                                     
                                     

                                    That link isn't working, so I am attaching the Mouser pic from https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bolger/files/Mouser/.

                                     

                                     

                                  • cluttonfred
                                    Thanks, John, that is interesting and I see that they offer digital downloads of back issues so I will get that one. In the meantime, here is the cover of BDQ
                                    Message 18 of 20 , Mar 21, 2015
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                                      Thanks, John, that is interesting and I see that they offer digital downloads of back issues so I will get that one.  In the meantime, here is the cover of BDQ #13 to provide a clearer idea of Mouser.



                                    • Chief Redelk
                                      She is a beauty...That mast is way forward..Gives me some ideas on my next design..Thanks, chief
                                      Message 19 of 20 , Mar 21, 2015
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                                        She is a beauty...That mast is way forward..Gives me some ideas on my
                                        next design..Thanks, chief

                                        On 3/21/15, owlnmole@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                        > That link isn't working, so I am attaching the Mouser pic from
                                        > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bolger/files/Mouser/
                                        > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bolger/files/Mouser/.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • kingerikxiv
                                        Thanks for those pics - I hadn t seen that design before and I would be very interested in seeing more. Here is a link to a sandbagger rig on a small 15
                                        Message 20 of 20 , Mar 21, 2015
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                                          Thanks for those pics - I hadn't seen that design before and I would be very interested in seeing more.


                                          Here is a link to a sandbagger rig on a  small 15' boat: Sandbagger rig option


                                          Perhaps a bit too radical for me and my family, but if anyone is looking for a crew then call me :)

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