Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: wider as 29

Expand Messages
  • Eric
    Doug, It was fun to give some thought to your situation. I think you have reached a good conclusion. Someone posted a link on the Junk Rig group to a Craigs
    Message 1 of 123 , Jun 21, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Doug,

      It was fun to give some thought to your situation. I think you have reached a good conclusion. Someone posted a link on the Junk Rig group to a Craigs List add for a wooden Colvin designed 36' junk. The boat, now just a hull and diesel in pretty good shape, was selling for half the cost of the cushions I'm having built for my boat. It took me a decade and a lot of money to build as much a boat (and smaller by far) as someone can buy for less than $2000. Buying used or keeping the boat one has is a much better idea than building unless building is the point, or building gets special qualities that are just too important to compromise on.

      Happy sailing. Its been fun talking boats with you. And I'm really glad our conversation lead me to the wisdom contained in some of your earlier posts.

      Eric



      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Eric I lost a couple of your posts so replied to this older one. I
      > spent a week on My Albin Vega sailing and doing a little work while at
      > Anchor. Had a great time. The marina I am in has lost about half of the
      > boats that have been kept there and many of them are up for sale and are
      > selling for nothing. To build a new boat I would have to sell mine and
      > If I needed to sell the new boat it would have to go really cheap. I
      > came to the conclusion that this is just not the time to be building and
      > selling boats.
      > There is just to much that is up in the air to make such a change.
      > We have decided to keep our house maybe rent it out some but let our
      > kids worry about what the heck to do with it later.
      > The boat we have has enough space to live aboard in the winters
      > down in Florida and the Bahamas and stay here in the house in Virginia
      > during the summer. The Vega is a bit cramped and draws more water than
      > I would like but is easy to sail and won't take a year to build another
      > year to get ready to go cruising. At my age those two years are
      > valuable ones for cruising and sailing.
      > So we had a long talk, an that is the decision we have made. and
      > believe it or not we are feeling much relieved that we don't have to
      > tackle the big job of building a boat.
      > I am sorry I worried you with my problem but in truth I guess old
      > age conservatism has won out over youthful adventure. Thanks much, Doug
      >
      >
      > On 06/02/2012 09:18 PM, Eric wrote:
      > >
      > > Wolf Trap's cat yawl rig is handsome, but the schooner rig is so
      > > beautifully married to the hull form that you would just have to go
      > > slower in order to give people more time to admire Wolf Trap. (Picture
      > > and line drawings here
      > > http://sailboatsfairandfine.blogspot.com/search/label/Wolftrap ) I
      > > took notice of the bagged flat spinnaker and other large sail bag that
      > > I assume carried a staysail to fly off the main mast. Your demonic
      > > desire for ever more canvas brought a smile of appreciation to my face.
      > >
      > > Wolf Trap is a hard act to follow. Perhaps there is a possibility for
      > > your last boat to be one you could love as much as you loved Wolf
      > > Trap. I have a possibility to suggest which might interest others on
      > > this list.
      > >
      > > In most cases making a good design wider on the same length spoils the
      > > good of a design, but lengthening a good design on the same width
      > > often produces an even better boat. It is a safer bet, in any case.
      > >
      > > Doug, from what you have said, I gather Wolf Trap had standing
      > > headroom in the head under the hatch. The hatch being only a few
      > > inches higher than the deck would mean that the flush deck would not
      > > have to be raised very much to get standing headroom throughout the
      > > cabin. Doing so would spoil Wolf Trap, but not if Wolf Trap was scaled
      > > up. Stability increases with length as well as width, so it might be
      > > possible to get a very nice boat by stretching the length and hight
      > > dimensions, and perhaps not even needing to expand the width
      > > dimension. Obviously aluminum would be ideal, but the same expansions
      > > that are good for building in aluminum are directly transferable to
      > > plywood. Phil Bolger was a master at drawing designs which wasted
      > > little material. An enlarged Wolf Trap might be much more wasteful of
      > > material, but some wasted MDO plywood might be easily tolerated. Mono
      > > coupe construction could be had by epoxy fiberglass coating interior
      > > and exterior and joining interior components one with the hull, as
      > > with the original Wolf Trap. A different design, but a design perhaps
      > > worth paying for. With schooner rig you would have an easy rig to
      > > handle that would not require that you set enough sail to beat forty
      > > footers.
      > >
      > > A significant advantage of a slightly enlarged plywood Wolf Trap over
      > > a Trillo would be resale value. This would be an advantage over an AS
      > > design as well. It would be a somewhat more difficult boat for an
      > > amateur to build, but not for a skilled boat builder. So the cost
      > > difference between a Trillo or AS design would simply be whatever
      > > differences there were of displacement, and differences in
      > > complication of interior, rig and auxilliary propulsion. It might not
      > > amount to much, or at least be an economical trade off.
      > >
      > > Eric
      > >
      > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Eric, Sorry I did not get back before now. Yes you are right about the
      > > > weight of Wolftrap. Had not really thought that much about it but she
      > > > weighed 5000 lbs as she was when we first sailed her with500 lbs of
      > > > ballast. Later we added more and finally as a schooner she must have
      > > > weighed maybe 6500 lbs. She was build very light with tubing for
      > > > stringers and almost no frames and using aluminum furniture that was
      > > > built into the hull. She was mono coupe construction. She was
      > > > intended for Chesapeake bay sailing and we added the ballast to get her
      > > > a little heavier. When we first began sailing her she didn't even have
      > > > a chine in the water. She was intended to carry a lot of sail for the
      > > > light air of the Bay here and so was reefed early. We sailed her off
      > > > the wind with main, mizzen, flat spinnaker and a Mizzen stay-sail. On
      > > > my Blog "Sailboats Fair and Fine' there are lots of pictures, story and
      > > > description. Click this link or copy and paste. I think I mentioned she
      > > > was slower with the schooner rig and additional Ballast. This will keep
      > > > you busy for a while.:-)
      > > >
      > > > Doug
      > > >
      > > >
      > > http://sailboatsfairandfine.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2006-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&updated-max=2007-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=9
      > > <http://sailboatsfairandfine.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2006-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&updated-max=2007-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=9>
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Eric
      Doug, It was fun to give some thought to your situation. I think you have reached a good conclusion. Someone posted a link on the Junk Rig group to a Craigs
      Message 123 of 123 , Jun 21, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Doug,

        It was fun to give some thought to your situation. I think you have reached a good conclusion. Someone posted a link on the Junk Rig group to a Craigs List add for a wooden Colvin designed 36' junk. The boat, now just a hull and diesel in pretty good shape, was selling for half the cost of the cushions I'm having built for my boat. It took me a decade and a lot of money to build as much a boat (and smaller by far) as someone can buy for less than $2000. Buying used or keeping the boat one has is a much better idea than building unless building is the point, or building gets special qualities that are just too important to compromise on.

        Happy sailing. Its been fun talking boats with you. And I'm really glad our conversation lead me to the wisdom contained in some of your earlier posts.

        Eric



        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Eric I lost a couple of your posts so replied to this older one. I
        > spent a week on My Albin Vega sailing and doing a little work while at
        > Anchor. Had a great time. The marina I am in has lost about half of the
        > boats that have been kept there and many of them are up for sale and are
        > selling for nothing. To build a new boat I would have to sell mine and
        > If I needed to sell the new boat it would have to go really cheap. I
        > came to the conclusion that this is just not the time to be building and
        > selling boats.
        > There is just to much that is up in the air to make such a change.
        > We have decided to keep our house maybe rent it out some but let our
        > kids worry about what the heck to do with it later.
        > The boat we have has enough space to live aboard in the winters
        > down in Florida and the Bahamas and stay here in the house in Virginia
        > during the summer. The Vega is a bit cramped and draws more water than
        > I would like but is easy to sail and won't take a year to build another
        > year to get ready to go cruising. At my age those two years are
        > valuable ones for cruising and sailing.
        > So we had a long talk, an that is the decision we have made. and
        > believe it or not we are feeling much relieved that we don't have to
        > tackle the big job of building a boat.
        > I am sorry I worried you with my problem but in truth I guess old
        > age conservatism has won out over youthful adventure. Thanks much, Doug
        >
        >
        > On 06/02/2012 09:18 PM, Eric wrote:
        > >
        > > Wolf Trap's cat yawl rig is handsome, but the schooner rig is so
        > > beautifully married to the hull form that you would just have to go
        > > slower in order to give people more time to admire Wolf Trap. (Picture
        > > and line drawings here
        > > http://sailboatsfairandfine.blogspot.com/search/label/Wolftrap ) I
        > > took notice of the bagged flat spinnaker and other large sail bag that
        > > I assume carried a staysail to fly off the main mast. Your demonic
        > > desire for ever more canvas brought a smile of appreciation to my face.
        > >
        > > Wolf Trap is a hard act to follow. Perhaps there is a possibility for
        > > your last boat to be one you could love as much as you loved Wolf
        > > Trap. I have a possibility to suggest which might interest others on
        > > this list.
        > >
        > > In most cases making a good design wider on the same length spoils the
        > > good of a design, but lengthening a good design on the same width
        > > often produces an even better boat. It is a safer bet, in any case.
        > >
        > > Doug, from what you have said, I gather Wolf Trap had standing
        > > headroom in the head under the hatch. The hatch being only a few
        > > inches higher than the deck would mean that the flush deck would not
        > > have to be raised very much to get standing headroom throughout the
        > > cabin. Doing so would spoil Wolf Trap, but not if Wolf Trap was scaled
        > > up. Stability increases with length as well as width, so it might be
        > > possible to get a very nice boat by stretching the length and hight
        > > dimensions, and perhaps not even needing to expand the width
        > > dimension. Obviously aluminum would be ideal, but the same expansions
        > > that are good for building in aluminum are directly transferable to
        > > plywood. Phil Bolger was a master at drawing designs which wasted
        > > little material. An enlarged Wolf Trap might be much more wasteful of
        > > material, but some wasted MDO plywood might be easily tolerated. Mono
        > > coupe construction could be had by epoxy fiberglass coating interior
        > > and exterior and joining interior components one with the hull, as
        > > with the original Wolf Trap. A different design, but a design perhaps
        > > worth paying for. With schooner rig you would have an easy rig to
        > > handle that would not require that you set enough sail to beat forty
        > > footers.
        > >
        > > A significant advantage of a slightly enlarged plywood Wolf Trap over
        > > a Trillo would be resale value. This would be an advantage over an AS
        > > design as well. It would be a somewhat more difficult boat for an
        > > amateur to build, but not for a skilled boat builder. So the cost
        > > difference between a Trillo or AS design would simply be whatever
        > > differences there were of displacement, and differences in
        > > complication of interior, rig and auxilliary propulsion. It might not
        > > amount to much, or at least be an economical trade off.
        > >
        > > Eric
        > >
        > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Eric, Sorry I did not get back before now. Yes you are right about the
        > > > weight of Wolftrap. Had not really thought that much about it but she
        > > > weighed 5000 lbs as she was when we first sailed her with500 lbs of
        > > > ballast. Later we added more and finally as a schooner she must have
        > > > weighed maybe 6500 lbs. She was build very light with tubing for
        > > > stringers and almost no frames and using aluminum furniture that was
        > > > built into the hull. She was mono coupe construction. She was
        > > > intended for Chesapeake bay sailing and we added the ballast to get her
        > > > a little heavier. When we first began sailing her she didn't even have
        > > > a chine in the water. She was intended to carry a lot of sail for the
        > > > light air of the Bay here and so was reefed early. We sailed her off
        > > > the wind with main, mizzen, flat spinnaker and a Mizzen stay-sail. On
        > > > my Blog "Sailboats Fair and Fine' there are lots of pictures, story and
        > > > description. Click this link or copy and paste. I think I mentioned she
        > > > was slower with the schooner rig and additional Ballast. This will keep
        > > > you busy for a while.:-)
        > > >
        > > > Doug
        > > >
        > > >
        > > http://sailboatsfairandfine.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2006-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&updated-max=2007-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=9
        > > <http://sailboatsfairandfine.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2006-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&updated-max=2007-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=9>
        > >
        > >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.