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Re: [bolger] Sustainability (world-wide forest die-off now) (was Re: Lightweight marineply)

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  • GNHBus@aol.com
    Good morning Electric Hybrid System - www.electricseas.org www.electricyacht.com The EY 360ibl System will provide 18kW of power Hopefully it will be many
    Message 1 of 64 , Apr 28, 2012
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      Good morning 
      Electric Hybrid System - www.electricseas.org  www.electricyacht.com 
      The EY 360ibl System will provide 18kW of power
      "Hopefully it will be many years before you give feedback about system reliability and longevity."
      Can you add more to what is meant by your comment above? 

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Eric <eric14850@...>
      To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sat, Apr 28, 2012 5:53 am
      Subject: [bolger] Sustainability (world-wide forest die-off now) (was Re: Lightweight marineply)

       
      Please post your experiences with this electric hybred system you have created, including cost of installation, electric HP and how it performs, battery bank amperage, hours of performance and what rate of draw you use while doing the work you do. Hopefully it will be many years before you give feedback about system reliability and longevity.

      Eric

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, GNHBus@... wrote:
      >
      > Good morning
      >
      >
      > We are installing an Electric Yacht System 360ib into a 1948 38' Novi Lobster Lobster Boat out of Quincy MA.
      > This vessel has a WWII Detroit Diesel Landing Craft Propulsion System that costs $100 day to fuel and bellows
      > pollutants like crazy while hauling traps at idle.
      >
      >
      > She will go from 6-8 hrs diesel idle per day, to 6-8 hrs electric and 45 min diesel out,45 min In.
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: philbolger <philbolger@...>
      > To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 8:50 am
      > Subject: Re: [bolger] Sustainability (world-wide forest die-off now) (was Re: Lightweight marineply)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Serious stuff indeed.
      >
      > Still, climate-change deniers abound. Good thing that serious people are waking up - albeit possibly too late ?!
      >
      > As you know, we've pushed hard and I continue to raise the issue of sustainable fishing-fleets for starters, but resistance to burning less fuel and thus money is astonishingly high and stubborn, typically wrapped in some sort of tortured internally-incoherent justification, often fading out with nebulous references to 'evil forces' beyond the horizon. Childish, ignorant, clearly dangerous all around in its consequences if allowed to govern policy.
      >
      > I wished WOODENBOAT would see and leverage its potentially quite potent political role beyond a lot of varnish and 'period-pieces'. There's always hope...
      >
      > Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
      > From: c.ruzer
      >
      > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 8:38 AM
      >
      > Subject: [bolger] Sustainability (world-wide forest die-off now) (was Re: Lightweight marineply)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, james fry <hunter02_2002@> wrote:
      > > a study was done in New Jersey a while back that showed the Pine
      > > Barrens put more hydrocarbons into the air every week than all the
      > > trucks on the NJ Turnpike put out in a year.
      >
      > It's by far the amount of truck CO2 emitted that ought be compared, not HCs (trucks shouldn't be emitting methane or much other nasty CO2 equivalent in any quantity - carcinogenic particulates etc being another thing). As for CO2, just how much CO2 did those trucks absorb from the air every week? Any?
      >
      > A study done a while back?
      >
      > Well then, SEEN LAST NIGHT - coincidental to this topic, on a televised science programme segment concerning climate related tree death numbers now massively increasing globally. The greenhouse planet could now be on the edge of "wholesale mortality of the world's forests". Those forests have much to do with producing and regulating climate, of course... So, one more example of accelerated nasty climate change via runaway positive feedback in the greenhouse and resulting in a nastier climate and possibly a timberless world... (side note: this is about a spreading drying and dying, but, wetlanders, don't smile too soon, you may also have seen sometime that overwatered plants often show similar signs of stress to those deprived of water... gaseous exchange, water psi, physiology, pathogens, parasites, pests: a balancing act.)
      >
      > CATALYST
      > Thursday, 26 April 2012 [snipped...]
      > video and transcript here: http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3488105.htm
      >
      > TREE DEATHS
      >
      > "NARRATION
      > The Rocky Mountains of North America - home to some of the most beautiful, pristine forests in the world. But the shades of burnt golden reds aren't the changing tones of Autumn; they're dead and dying trees.
      >
      > Dr Craig Allen
      > We're looking at tree mortality over a scale of tens of millions of hectares in the last decade alone.
      >
      > NARRATION
      > In fact, right across the globe, there are reports of trees dying in mass numbers.
      >
      > Dr Craig Allen
      > We see all around the world in places where there have been droughts, that drought - particularly droughts and heatwaves - trigger mass waves of mortality. No major forest type is immune.
      >
      > NARRATION
      > Across the western US, tree death rate have more than doubled in the past few decades.
      >
      > Dr Craig Allen
      > So what we're seeing in these forest die-off events around the world are trees passing the tipping point of stress - the thresholds of mortality. Unfortunately we don't know very much about these thresholds at this point.
      >
      > Dr Craig Allen
      > There may be insects and fungal pests that emerge at that point in time, but underlying it is the physiological stress on the trees that compromises their defences. You could think of it actually sort of like HIV in humans. HIV doesn't directly kill people, but by compromising our immune systems, it makes us vulnerable to secondary ah, you know, viruses and other things that can kill us. It's similar in trees.
      >
      > NARRATION
      > The effect climate change may have on our forests is a huge concern. But an even greater worry - how will dying trees affect the climate? In 2005, the heart of the world's biggest rainforest suffered a drought so hot and severe it turned the Amazon jungle from a carbon sink to a carbon source. A second once-in-a-century drought happened five years later.
      >
      > Dr Craig Allen
      > What's most alarming is that these die-off events may be just the tip of the iceberg. We know that warming, temperatures exacerbate tree mortality, and the climate predictions are that the world is going to get much warmer soon. Um, so we may be just at the very front edge of what could be wholesale mortality of the world's forests - the forests that we know and care about today."
      >
      > Related article:
      >
      > _What's Killing the Great Forests of the American West?_
      >
      > 15 Mar 2010: Report
      >
      > "Across western North America, huge tracts of forest are dying off at an extraordinary rate, mostly because of outbreaks of insects. Scientists are now seeing such forest die-offs around the world and are linking them to changes in climate." "In 2008, so much of British Columbia's forests had died they also went from being a net carbon sink to carbon source." "Russian researchers also are concerned that warmer, dryer conditions will lead to increased outbreaks of the Siberian moth, which can destroy large swaths of Russia's boreal forest." "Although western North America has been hardest hit by insect infestations, sizeable areas of forest in Australia, Russia, France, and other countries have experienced die-offs, most of which appears to have been caused by drought, high temperatures, or both." "In Africa where I work, suddenly whole hillsides are dropping dead," she said. "It's happening so fast people are in shock. It's a tragedy." "Trees across the world are stressed already from fragmentation, air pollution, and other problems... I don't know how much stress the forests of the world can take," said Allen." http://e360.yale.edu/feature/whats_killing_the_great_forests_of_the_american_west/2252/ Yale Environment 360 http://e360.yale.edu/
      >
      > _A global overview of drought and heat-induced tree mortality reveals emerging climate change risks for forests_
      >
      > (the paper cited in the above article. 20 co-authors)Forest Ecology and Management, Volume 259, Issue 4, 5 February 2010, Pages 660–684
      >
      > "Although episodic mortality occurs in the absence of climate change, studies compiled here suggest that at least some of the world's forested ecosystems already may be responding to climate change and raise concern that forests may become increasingly vulnerable to higher background tree mortality rates and die-off in response to future warming and drought, even in environments that are not normally considered water-limited... Overall, our review reveals the potential for amplified tree mortality due to drought and heat in forests worldwide." http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037811270900615X
      > http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/03781127/259/4
      > http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/03781127
      > related articles http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleListURL&_method=list&_ArticleListID=1972582475&_sort=v&_st=17&view=c&_origin=related_art&_acct=C000228598&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=85d8d9867f2ac47a6e556d619172a78d&searchtype=a
      >
      > THERE'S NO SOLACE FOR TREES FROM THE OCEANS EITHER. SEEN TODAY, JUST IN... are news reports of results from CSIRO in Hobart and Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California as published in the journal SCIENCE. Thousands of robotic ocean monitoring diving bouys now accurately confirm wet climates getting wetter and dry climates getting drier - but at much faster rates than predicted...
      >
      > http://theconversation.edu.au/dry-parts-of-the-planet-to-get-drier-wet-parts-wetter-6700 http://theconversation.edu.au/
      >
      > "They revealed a repeating pattern of change believed to be the result of climate change, Wijffels said. "And we see it in the north Atlantic, the south Atlantic, the north Pacific, the south Pacific, the Indian; it's repeated in every ocean basin independently," she said." http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gta4Ck8xze5I-sHAzazzvCB-4GBA?docId=CNG.30fcb51b66f59d429f40a78cff17d57e.3e1
      >
      > These facts came as news to me here today on yahoo (aap sourced):
      >
      > http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/mp/13533217/new-study-warns-of-tough-aussie-climate/ by David Beniuk, AAP, April 27, 2012, 6:19 am [snipped...]
      > "Scientists from the CSIRO in Hobart and the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California have used the most accurate study yet of ocean saltiness to show the world's dry areas, like Australia, are getting drier and its wet areas getting wetter.
      >
      > The scientific team says the rate at which the atmosphere moves water from dry spots to wet spots increased by four per cent between 1950-2000 - twice as fast as predicted by current climate models.
      >
      > They conservatively estimate it could triple by the end of the century, leaving dry land masses like Australia struggling to meet their need for fresh water.
      >
      > "We're pretty sure that this is clear evidence it's already happening, that the water cycle has accelerated and the rates at which it's accelerating per degree of warming are probably higher than our current models project," Dr Wijffels says.
      >
      > The study is considered one of the most accurate of its type because data was collected from ocean monitoring equipment, including the Argo fleet of 3,500 robotic floats deployed over the past decade.
      > Scientists have previously struggled to produce estimates of water cycle changes because land-based observations of rainfall and evaporation are sparse."
      >
      > http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/extremes-in-weather-more-likely--scientists-20120427-1xpq8.html
      > "The team's leader, Paul Durack, said the finding was important because reductions in the availability of fresh water posed more of a risk to human societies and natural ecosystems than a rise in temperature alone. "Changes to the global water cycle and the corresponding redistribution of rainfall will affect food availability, stability, access and utilisation," said Dr Durack, a former CSIRO researcher now at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California.
      >
      > Interesting audio file and transcript of recent interview with Dr Susan Wijffels, CSIRO oceanographer, who leads the Argo profiling program in Hobart, Tasmania. Pirates show an interest in Argo...
      > http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/ocean-data-feeds-into-weather-and-climate-forecasting/3963080
      >
      > "Pine Barrens" may sadly take on a different meaning in many places sometime soon...
      >

    • c.ruzer
      I ve placed a scan of water resistance of epoxy coatings a test results article, in Jan/Feb/Mar 2012 Australian Amateur Boatbuilder #76, pp7&8, by Dr Bruce
      Message 64 of 64 , May 1, 2012
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        I've placed a scan of "water resistance of epoxy coatings" a
        test results article, in Jan/Feb/Mar 2012 Australian Amateur Boatbuilder #76, pp7&8, by Dr Bruce McConkey, Boatcraft Pacific, in the BOATBUILDING folder in group Files:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/BOATBUILDING/ (Seems similar to the tests Dr Dave Carnell conducted.)

        Dr McConkey's article authoritatively advises on what type of epoxy coating, thinners & etc. Does it mean ENCAPSULATION or just one side though?

        Sheathing counteracts checking and or abraision if that's a likely issue with the material or location... A good paint system alone is often advised for unwetted, low wear areas... or all over for light, dry-sailed boats.

        my 2cents...


        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "sandidgeneal" <nsandidge@...> wrote:
        >
        > I suspect what you are saying is correct. Epoxy coating is not the be-all-end-all. However, monkey see monkey do, so I will sheathe and coat my AS29. But I will use a local epoxy that costs 40% of WEST. Is this false economy? I don't know. What does everyone else think?
        >
        > Neal
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