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Re: AS29 details

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  • sandidgeneal
    Hi Mike: Of course I ve read the world-famous Walkure blog! I m surprised someone hasn t snapped her up by now. If only it was sitting here in the
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 22, 2012
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      Hi Mike:

      Of course I've read the world-famous Walkure blog! I'm surprised someone hasn't snapped her up by now. If only it was sitting here in the Philippines...

      Neal



      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "harrystone.24755" <ph687079@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I concur, spend a lot more money, couple thousand of your hours when
      > you
      > > could go right now.
      > >
      > > HJ
      > >
      > > On 3/22/2012 12:30 PM, Paul Esterle wrote:
      > > > Neal,
      > > >
      > > > Unless your hobby is boat building vs. sailing, you'd be crazy not
      > to
      > > > seriously think about buying Captain Mike's boat.
      > > >
      > > > Capt'n Pauley (Paul Esterle)
      >
      >
      > Great advice given there.
      > There is no way to build that boat for the asking price.
      > That boat is a bargain!
      >
      > If the build process is the most important thing for you , by all means
      > build a new boat , ...
      > but seriously consider if the extra time and money you are about to
      > sacrifice are the more important than a good boat.
      >
      > Good luck with what ever you decide.
      >
    • patricia hong
      ... I hear you ! I`m in Australia , so its out of reach for me too.....a lucky ( smart ) someone will get that bargain boat.
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 22, 2012
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        On 23/03/2012 08:56, sandidgeneal wrote:
         

        Hi Mike:

        Of course I've read the world-famous Walkure blog! I'm surprised someone hasn't snapped her up by now. If only it was sitting here in the Philippines...

        Neal




            I hear you !
            I`m in Australia , so its out of reach for me too.....a lucky ( smart ) someone will get that bargain boat.
      • Rod Symington
        Many thanks for the tips -- very useful! I will start building the bilgeboards in about a month. When you say enclose the aluminum core , do you mean
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 23, 2012
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          Many thanks for the tips -- very useful! I will start building the bilgeboards in about a month. When you say "enclose the aluminum core", do you mean "enclose the core in the plywood and fiberglass the plywood in order to seal the bilgeboards totally"?
           
          Rod

          From: Michael Wagner <willers32@...>
          To: "bolger@yahoogroups.com" <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 2:44 AM
          Subject: Re: [bolger] AS29 details

           
          Ahh...so many questions...

          I have built an AS-29 and lived aboard full time and cruised for four and a half years. See our blog: http://walkurevoyages.blogspot.com/

          When you look at the blog, be sure to look at "Older Posts" all the way back to 2005. You will also see that she is for sale. There is a Craigslist listing. http://keys.craigslist.org/boa/2868167356.html

          This listing gives a list of all the equipment that goes with the boat.

          As for building one yourself, it is a great project but be prepared to invest some time and money. As a pure amateur, I made many mistakes along the way, corrected most of them before moving on. I probably spent more than I should have due to error correction.

          I built mine to the original plan with the internal ballast, so I can't help with the external ballast questions. As for a list of materials, the plans include a detailed building key which will give you a pretty good idea of the materials needed. For me, the most difficult thing to find was good wood for the spars. I found a lumber yard in White Plains, NY that custom milled the Douglas Fir for the main mast and the Sitka for all the other spars. I would not skimp on the wood for the main. The main sail is 311 sq ft and very powerful, the mast is unstayed - it better be strong. The mizzen sail is 54 sq ft. All sails, including the reacher, are available as kits from sailrite. I met with Phil Bolger a few years ago and showed him photos of our boat and he complemented us on the cut of our sails, so I guess Sailrite does a good job of following Phil's design.

          As for time, our boat took 4 years of part time work. Every weekend, every holiday and vacation for 4 straight years. I could have spent another year doing finish work to "Bristol" standards, but I decided life was too short, gave her a coat of latex house paint and went sailing. Oddly, the paint held up very well and 7 years later she's only had touch-ups.

          One caution: the bilgeboards. Do not leave the aluminum core of the boards protruding from the plywood (as the plans show.) This will delaminate very quickly. Bury the core completely and add a bit more weight to make them sink. You could skip the aluminum core altogether and bury a few pounds of lead in each board and it will work fine. We had a welder build us a steel rudder and post assembly as one piece. It was galvanized then painted with two-part epoxy primer. It presently shows no sign of rust or corrosion. We were very thankful for that bullet proof rudder when we dragged anchor in a storm and ended up stern-to in the mangroves. As the tide went out, the boat sat on the rudder for several hours. No damage!

          We put a Suzuki 9.9 HT engine with power tilt on the boat and love it. The Yamaha 9.9 HT will work great also, but be sure you can get a power tilt model. Climbing down into that narrow  well to raise and lower the engine is a pain in the...you know. Yamaha insists on doing the install themselves, but Suzuki will ship anywhere. The high-thrust (HT) feature is critical. A standard engine will not give sufficient performance.

          Another tip: when building the external moldings along the hull, use synthetic lumber - Trex, Veranda, etc. These moldings act as rub rails and take a beating when docking, etc. The synthetic materials will never rot even when beat up.

          OR...if you'd rather just go sailing...Walkure is for sale...hint, hint...

          Good luck
          Mike Wagner


          From: sandidgeneal <nsandidge@...>
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:32 AM
          Subject: [bolger] AS29 details

           
          I have ordered AS29 plans, but I expect it will be 4-6 weeks before I receive them. In the meantime, I would like to ask if anyone has built the boat or analyzed the plans and can give me a materials list. Also, what is the area of the main? Mizzen? I understand that in the latest plans, the ballast is in the form of a 1/2" steel external shoe. Has anyone built this? How does one manhandle that into place? Must you roll the steel into a curve? Is special tooling required?

          Thanks,

          Neal





        • BruceHallman
          On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Harry James wrote: ... Except, of course, that building boats from scratch is fun!
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 23, 2012
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            On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:>
            >
            > I concur, spend a lot more money, couple thousand of your hours when you
            > could go right now.
            >
            > HJ


            Except, of course, that building boats from scratch is fun!
          • sandidgeneal
            Hi Bruce: You re just the person I was looking for. 3 years ago, you detailed a labor schedule for building a 29. I saved it and have been over it many
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 23, 2012
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              Hi Bruce:

              You're just the person I was looking for. 3 years ago, you detailed a labor schedule for building a 29. I saved it and have been over it many times. Did you make up a similar materiel and equipment list? (I'm betting you did!).

              Neal
              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:>
              > >
              > > I concur, spend a lot more money, couple thousand of your hours when you
              > > could go right now.
              > >
              > > HJ
              >
              >
              > Except, of course, that building boats from scratch is fun!
              >
            • Paul Esterle
              So is sailing... Capt n Pauley (Paul Esterle) Freelance Boating Writer www.thevirtualboatyard.com www.youtube.com/user/captnpauley
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 23, 2012
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                So is sailing...

                Capt'n Pauley (Paul Esterle)
                Freelance Boating Writer
                www.thevirtualboatyard.com
                www.youtube.com/user/captnpauley
                www.lulu.com/spotlight/pesterle


                On 3/23/2012 10:20 AM, BruceHallman wrote:
                >
                > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Harry James <welshman@...
                > <mailto:welshman%40ptialaska.net>> wrote:>
                > >
                > > I concur, spend a lot more money, couple thousand of your hours when you
                > > could go right now.
                > >
                > > HJ
                >
                > Except, of course, that building boats from scratch is fun!
                >
                >
              • BruceHallman
                I can t remember three years ago! Depending on what you want from your AS29 experience, of course, but I strongly recommend building a scale model out of
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 23, 2012
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                  I can't remember three years ago!  

                  Depending on what you want from your AS29 experience, of course, but I strongly recommend building a scale model out of cardboard, glue and tape.  Say, 1 inch to the foot.  That way you could make your mistakes on-the-cheap, and put together a sensible materials list in the process.  I would bet the time spent on the model would save you time on the full size by a factor of ten.

                  Personally, I would be very seriously tempted to build the boat using 'workboat' level of "quick and dirty" quality, as the gold-plating detail is tempting but can eat up sooooo much time and cost that it can be a project killer before you get to the finish line. Stick to the plans, don't try to improve it.

                  On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 8:14 AM, sandidgeneal <nsandidge@...> wrote:
                   


                  Hi Bruce:

                  You're just the person I was looking for. 3 years ago, you detailed a labor schedule for building a 29. I saved it and have been over it many times. Did you make up a similar materiel and equipment list? (I'm betting you did!).

                  Neal
                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:


                  >
                  > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:>
                  > >
                  > > I concur, spend a lot more money, couple thousand of your hours when you
                  > > could go right now.
                  > >
                  > > HJ
                  >
                  >
                  > Except, of course, that building boats from scratch is fun!
                  >


                • sandidgeneal
                  My plan, Bruce, is just as you say: quick and dirty. I ll keep you advised how the progress is coming. Will probably receive the plans in late April, study
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 23, 2012
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                    My plan, Bruce, is just as you say: quick and dirty. I'll keep you advised how the progress is coming. Will probably receive the plans in late April, study them for a month or so, and begin in June.

                    Neal

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I can't remember three years ago!
                    >
                    > Depending on what you want from your AS29 experience, of course, but I
                    > strongly recommend building a scale model out of cardboard, glue and tape.
                    > Say, 1 inch to the foot. That way you could make your mistakes
                    > on-the-cheap, and put together a sensible materials list in the process. I
                    > would bet the time spent on the model would save you time on the full size
                    > by a factor of ten.
                    >
                    > Personally, I would be very seriously tempted to build the boat using
                    > 'workboat' level of "quick and dirty" quality, as the gold-plating detail
                    > is tempting but can eat up sooooo much time and cost that it can be a
                    > project killer before you get to the finish line. Stick to the plans, don't
                    > try to improve it.
                    >
                    > On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 8:14 AM, sandidgeneal <nsandidge@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi Bruce:
                    > >
                    > > You're just the person I was looking for. 3 years ago, you detailed a
                    > > labor schedule for building a 29. I saved it and have been over it many
                    > > times. Did you make up a similar materiel and equipment list? (I'm betting
                    > > you did!).
                    > >
                    > > Neal
                    > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Harry James <welshman@> wrote:>
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I concur, spend a lot more money, couple thousand of your hours when
                    > > you
                    > > > > could go right now.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > HJ
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Except, of course, that building boats from scratch is fun!
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Peter
                    ... I m speculating.... Bolger used steel plate for ballast going back to Black Skimmer. For Skimmer, the plate was cut into narrow widths and was not bent. I
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 23, 2012
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                      > I understand that in the latest plans, the ballast is in the
                      > form of a 1/2" steel external shoe. Has anyone built this?
                      > How does one manhandle that into place?
                      > Must you roll the steel into a curve?

                      I'm speculating....

                      Bolger used steel plate for ballast going back to Black Skimmer. For Skimmer, the plate was cut into narrow widths and was not bent.

                      I think the steel will have to be bent to the right curve. If you buy the steel from a steel fabrication shop, they will have the equipment to bend it. They might or might not take your demand for accuracy seriously. As for doing it yourself, there are people who know how to do such things, but I'm not one of them. If you aren't either, then make a friend of someone who is. I think a misguided attempt could leave you with plate bent to the wrong shape, e.g. twisted.

                      A friend who built a Folding Schooner found that prices for metal fabrication varied enormously.
                    • Susanne@comcast.net
                      Good issue to be clear about. We first put this into the LM2 (#576) re-do with 1/2 plate. You d take templates of the hull as is for each approx. 4 x4
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 23, 2012
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                        Good issue to be clear about.  We first put this into the LM2 (#576) re-do with 1/2" plate. 
                        You'd take templates of the hull 'as is' for each approx. 4'x4' piece and let them use it to get it to match exactly your needs.  Then you'd either install them with lower LM-s hull upside-down and have to lift it all when rolling it over, or you'd slide each piece under the 'right-side-up' hull - at least 20" up for you to be under her on a 'creeper' - using a rolling floor-jack and two folks, one to shove the bolts in from below, and one to set up washers and nuts inside/overhead.  I'd fashion a nice wide 'carrier-head' for the jack to make sure nothing slides off and pinches yer pinky-finger... 

                        I did similar work just installing composite/plastic decking as skeg/keel-shoes and did indeed need to put the hull at least 20" above floor level - a few single-handed hours of carefully adding blocking one layer at a time... 

                        Galvanized or painted, if you use shallow-draft to advantage, you'll scrape any coating off sooner or later, thus initiating corrosion creeping under the remaining coating.  But 1/2" steel takes a good while to 'lose weight' due to corrosion.  Any belly-inspection while painting her will keep you posted.  Think decade-plus before getting concerned about her losing too much of her ballast.  Then adding interior pieces perhaps before fighting 5200 to get the most dubious bottom-plate(s) off ?...

                        Bronze or copper would resolve the matter for your living days, particularly 'sweet' if pulling up to say 6" above waterline to become an ice-belt...  Investing in copper that way might not be a bad bet.
                        Susanne , PB&F
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Peter
                        Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 12:35 PM
                        Subject: [bolger] Re: AS29 details

                         

                        > I understand that in the latest plans, the ballast is in the
                        > form of a 1/2" steel external shoe. Has anyone built this?
                        > How does one manhandle that into place?
                        > Must you roll the steel into a curve?

                        I'm speculating....

                        Bolger used steel plate for ballast going back to Black Skimmer. For Skimmer, the plate was cut into narrow widths and was not bent.

                        I think the steel will have to be bent to the right curve. If you buy the steel from a steel fabrication shop, they will have the equipment to bend it. They might or might not take your demand for accuracy seriously. As for doing it yourself, there are people who know how to do such things, but I'm not one of them. If you aren't either, then make a friend of someone who is. I think a misguided attempt could leave you with plate bent to the wrong shape, e.g. twisted.

                        A friend who built a Folding Schooner found that prices for metal fabrication varied enormously.

                      • Harry James
                        It is and I get a lot of satisfaction out of it. Right now I have reached a stage of my live where I have to schedule the time I figure I have left. No big
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 23, 2012
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                          It is and I get a lot of satisfaction out of it. Right now I have
                          reached a stage of my live where I have to schedule the time I figure I
                          have left. No big boats, just small ones, no building May to Sept,
                          that's time on the water. Plus I am thinking about cooking school in
                          Italy this fall.

                          HJ

                          On 3/23/2012 6:20 AM, BruceHallman wrote:
                          > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Harry James<welshman@...> wrote:>
                          >> I concur, spend a lot more money, couple thousand of your hours when you
                          >> could go right now.
                          >>
                          >> HJ
                          >
                          > Except, of course, that building boats from scratch is fun!
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
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