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Re: Clear Coating alternatives

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  • sirdarnell
    Apply two coats of epoxy and then cover in varnish as per directions to protect the epoxy from sun.
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 1, 2012
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      Apply two coats of epoxy and then cover in varnish as per directions to protect the epoxy from sun.

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
      >
      > My boatbuilding has slowed since Christmas due to lack to time, but I am almost at the point of turning the hull of my Chebacco 25 over. Maybe in March sometime.
      >
      > I decided that it would stiffen the sides a bit more if I fitted rubbing strakes to the top plank before I turned over. So I have sourced some nice strips of "Spotted Gum" from a timber decking supplier. I've ripped them down and shaped the profile on my router table. I'll screw them on with 1 1/2" bronze screws placed every foot. It should look nice, and spotted gum is going to be able to take the knocks.
      >
      > I always said I wouldn't have any timber finished bright - to save work. But the rubbing strips in spotted gum look too good to paint over. So if I do decide to have a fancy looking rubbing strip, what should I coat it with? Spar varnish? Linear Poly Urethane (LPU)? Oil of some sort? Epoxy and PU?
      >
      > I am concerned that if a bump damages the coating then water entering will quickly create an ugly mark and more coating will come off. I am also afraid that boat maintenance is not my strong point.
      >
      > What opinions/experience/recommendations is out there on hard wearing clear finishes?
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Andrew
      >
      > https://sites.google.com/site/warrandytewoodenboat/
      >
    • Douglas Pollard
      ... I am still using captains varnish. I have tried poly this and that, epoxy laid over with varnish and found them to hard to get off and if scraped they
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 1, 2012
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        On 03/01/2012 09:48 AM, sirdarnell wrote:
         

        Apply two coats of epoxy and then cover in varnish as per directions to protect the epoxy from sun.

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
        >
        > My boatbuilding has slowed since Christmas due to lack to time, but I am almost at the point of turning the hull of my Chebacco 25 over. Maybe in March sometime.
        >
        > I decided that it would stiffen the sides a bit more if I fitted rubbing strakes to the top plank before I turned over. So I have sourced some nice strips of "Spotted Gum" from a timber decking supplier. I've ripped them down and shaped the profile on my router table. I'll screw them on with 1 1/2" bronze screws placed every foot. It should look nice, and spotted gum is going to be able to take the knocks.
        >
        > I always said I wouldn't have any timber finished bright - to save work. But the rubbing strips in spotted gum look too good to paint over. So if I do decide to have a fancy looking rubbing strip, what should I coat it with? Spar varnish? Linear Poly Urethane (LPU)? Oil of some sort? Epoxy and PU?
        >
        > I am concerned that if a bump damages the coating then water entering will quickly create an ugly mark and more coating will come off. I am also afraid that boat maintenance is not my strong point.
        >
        > What opinions/experience/recommendations is out there on hard wearing clear finishes?
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Andrew
        >
        > https://sites.google.com/site/warrandytewoodenboat/
        >

        I am still using captains varnish.  I have tried poly this and that, epoxy laid over with varnish and found them to hard to get off and if scraped they pull the soft wood out of the grain when scraping..  When Living aboard I used to only use tung oil which does not last long but you can wipe over it with a rage with the oil in it and found I never had to remove to refinish as it lasted for ever when wiped over one a week. It's about a half hour once a week on a 36ft boat with a lot of treak. I also found that after about 15 years of living aboard I had more teak left on the boat because during those years I never had to strip the teak down.  I also never replaced any teak. Now that I live far from n my boat I can't use that so it's Captains varnish and it mostly because it's easy to remove without doing g damage to the bright wood.                                 Doug
      • KK7B
        I wish I could. I made this batch a while ago, and when it s gone I ll have to do some experiments again. It s got some polymerized tung oil in it and some
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 1, 2012
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          I wish I could. I made this batch a while ago, and when it's gone I'll have to do some experiments again. It's got some polymerized tung oil in it and some urathane that my dad had used over the years on salad bowls and kitchen counter tops with a lot of water exposure. I had talked with some musical instrument maker friends and got up the courage to just mess around for a while until I found something that is easy to apply with an old T-shirt, dries fast enough that if I put it on during the morning of a warm, dry day it won't be affected by dew the next morning, is water resistant and can be touched up quickly with a quick wipe of the rag. It's about the consistency of thin motor oil. I cut it with mineral spirits for the first coat on bare wood so it will soak in.

          I expect there is a rubbed-on salad bowl finish in a screw-top can at the woodworking supply store that would work as well. I like to use a finish that I wouldn't be afraid to eat off, out of respect for the marine environment. For the same reason I like to wipe it on with an old rag so there are no brushes, cleaning solvents, or cans to tip over and spill.

          I don't use many coats, and I don't achieve the deep finish of bright work on old yachts at Wooden Boat Festivals. It's a working finish, and over time I've come to appreciate the look more than that glossy bright stuff.

          If you decide to do some experiments, do them outdoors and don't breath the solvents. Keep in mind all the regional differences--a boat-builder has the option of doing something appropriate to his own climate and how his boat is used and stored. That glossy finish on store-bought boats is a compromise that works equally poorly in Alaska and Florida.

          Have fun,

          Rick

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamers@...> wrote:
          >
          > Please, if you remember, can you be a bit more specific on the components of
          > the "old oil-urethane mix?" Thanks. - Bill
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          > KK7B
          > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:52 AM
          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [bolger] Re: Clear Coating alternatives
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I agree with Jamie for rub rails (and pretty much everything else he's done
          > on that beautiful boat). Something soft, non-glossy and easily touched up
          > with no sanding or old finish removal. I have a can of old oil-urethane mix
          > that I apply to the rub rails with a rag a couple times a season or as
          > needed after a ding. It takes less time to do than write about, and leaves
          > the boat with that fresh "someone cares about me" look.
          >
          > I embrace the aesthetic of working rub rails--they don't really look right
          > to me until they've absorbed an assortment of dings. Soft, easily touched up
          > finish is perfect for that.
          >
          > Enjoy the boat turning--big day in the life of a boat...
          >
          > Best Regards,
          >
          > Rick
          >
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jamie"
          > <jas_orr@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I used Cetol on all the trim. It is more like an oil finish, although it
          > contains pigment - gives a somewhat mahogany-like look. It is not glossy
          > like varnish although there is a gloss version (that I haven't used). It is
          > softer than varnish but does not get age or lift the same way. It will wear
          > off in use but can be easily touched up with no sanding or removal of the
          > old finish (again, like an oil).
          > >
          > > I used the original version that some object to because of the pigment,
          > there is now a version with less pigment.
          > >
          > > Just last year I met a professional boatbuilder that he used Cetol on his
          > spars. I was about to refinish so i tried it, but I'm finding that the gaff
          > and boom jaws are leaving very visible marks on it so I may go back to
          > varnish on the spars. I like the look of varnish on the spruce spars better
          > in any case. However I am very satisfied with Cetol on the "brightwork".
          > >
          > > Jamie
          > >
          > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> , "Andrew"
          > <a.c.l.yen@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > My boatbuilding has slowed since Christmas due to lack to time, but I am
          > almost at the point of turning the hull of my Chebacco 25 over. Maybe in
          > March sometime.
          > > >
          > > > I decided that it would stiffen the sides a bit more if I fitted rubbing
          > strakes to the top plank before I turned over. So I have sourced some nice
          > strips of "Spotted Gum" from a timber decking supplier. I've ripped them
          > down and shaped the profile on my router table. I'll screw them on with 1
          > 1/2" bronze screws placed every foot. It should look nice, and spotted gum
          > is going to be able to take the knocks.
          > > >
          > > > I always said I wouldn't have any timber finished bright - to save work.
          > But the rubbing strips in spotted gum look too good to paint over. So if I
          > do decide to have a fancy looking rubbing strip, what should I coat it with?
          > Spar varnish? Linear Poly Urethane (LPU)? Oil of some sort? Epoxy and PU?
          > > >
          > > > I am concerned that if a bump damages the coating then water entering
          > will quickly create an ugly mark and more coating will come off. I am also
          > afraid that boat maintenance is not my strong point.
          > > >
          > > > What opinions/experience/recommendations is out there on hard wearing
          > clear finishes?
          > > >
          > > > Regards,
          > > >
          > > > Andrew
          > > >
          > > > https://sites.google.com/site/warrandytewoodenboat/
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Douglas Pollard
          Holly cow Mason, I thought I was about the only person in the world that used Tung oil any more. I like the looks off the finish above all other.
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 1, 2012
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            Holly cow Mason, I thought I was about the only person in the world that used Tung oil any more.  I like the looks off the finish above all other.             Doug   



            On 03/01/2012 09:27 AM, Mason Smith wrote:  

            I would vote against epoxy. Whatever you do, let moisture come and go with ambient conditions. Varnish will allow this. But if you want less maintenance, oil might be better. I don’t know spotted gum and will not pretend to say what oil. I have been using tung oil of late, both pure and thinned. I have long used and liked Deks Olje. Have not used, and don’t really like (what I’ve seen of it, on Drascombes) Cetol. ---Mason


          • John Weiss
            I ll second the Epoxy + Varnish idea. I did that on the cherry rails of my Adirondack Guideboat, and they look wonderful! The epoxy (System 3) provides a
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 1, 2012
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              I'll second the Epoxy + Varnish idea.

              I did that on the cherry rails of my Adirondack Guideboat, and they look
              wonderful! The epoxy (System 3) provides a great base for the varnish
              (Z-Spar Captain), so the varnish will not flake off as easily. If you
              want a low-gloss finish, put a coat or 2 of satin varnish over the gloss
              varnish. I did that on my floorboards, and they're holding up nicely.


              On 3/1/2012 6:48 AM, sirdarnell wrote:
              > Apply two coats of epoxy and then cover in varnish as per directions to
              > protect the epoxy from sun.

              > "Andrew" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I always said I wouldn't have any timber finished bright - to save
              > work. But the rubbing strips in spotted gum look too good to paint over.
              > So if I do decide to have a fancy looking rubbing strip, what should I
              > coat it with? Spar varnish? Linear Poly Urethane (LPU)? Oil of some
              > sort? Epoxy and PU?
              > >
              > > I am concerned that if a bump damages the coating then water entering
              > will quickly create an ugly mark and more coating will come off. I am
              > also afraid that boat maintenance is not my strong point.
              > >
              > > What opinions/experience/recommendations is out there on hard wearing
              > clear finishes?
            • prairiedog2332
              My understanding is that if using epoxy to enscapsulate the wood it has to be done completely on all sides. So if screwing a rub or spray rail in place, the
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 1, 2012
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                My understanding is that if using epoxy to "enscapsulate" the wood it
                has to be done completely on all sides. So if screwing a rub or spray
                rail in place, the inside has to be attached with thickened epoxy and
                even the screw holes should be pre-drilled and filled. Then only the
                outer area varnished to protect agains UV damage.

                This was written up by Jagels in an older WB article.

                Nels


                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, John Weiss <jrweiss98020@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'll second the Epoxy + Varnish idea.
              • Mason Smith
                Mason here again, to advise against coating with epoxy and then varnish. I have done this quite a lot, on my Goodboats and on spars, because epoxy makes such a
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 2, 2012
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                  Mason here again, to advise against coating with epoxy and then varnish. I have done this quite a lot, on my Goodboats and on spars, because epoxy makes such a great sealant under varnish. But I have sometimes regretted it, and do it no more, because if you do not revarnish soon enough and often enough, you will be sorry you ever epoxied under the varnish. You will have to take that sun-damaged epoxy off and start over. Better varnish and let the wood breathe through the film. Or oil.

                • mkriley48
                  I have tried everything in the years I was a professional boater. Captians varnish comes out on top in terms of the least work. lasts, touches up well. Varnish
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 2, 2012
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                    I have tried everything in the years I was a professional boater.
                    Captians varnish comes out on top in terms of the least work.
                    lasts, touches up well. Varnish lasts best if wiped down with a rag once in a while. For a non varnish substitute oil based PENITROL
                    is very good and cheap. The trick to varnish is to put it on full strength.
                    mike

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Holly cow Mason, I thought I was about the only person in the world that
                    > used Tung oil any more. I like the looks off the finish above all
                    > other. Doug
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On 03/01/2012 09:27 AM, Mason Smith wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I would vote against epoxy. Whatever you do, let moisture come and go
                    > > with ambient conditions. Varnish will allow this. But if you want less
                    > > maintenance, oil might be better. I don't know spotted gum and will
                    > > not pretend to say what oil. I have been using tung oil of late, both
                    > > pure and thinned. I have long used and liked Deks Olje. Have not used,
                    > > and don't really like (what I've seen of it, on Drascombes) Cetol.
                    > > ---Mason
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Douglas Pollard
                    Penitrol is good stuff. My wife and I used to redo the cockpit seats and upholstery on powerboats. The plywood armatures under the upolstery on most of them go
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 2, 2012
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                      Penitrol is good stuff. My wife and I used to redo the cockpit seats and upholstery on powerboats. The plywood armatures under the upolstery on most of them go bad in maybe 4 or 5 years. I rebult them and coated them liberally with Penatrol and when we replaced the foam and coverings maybe 7 years later the wood was still in good condition.  I have a stong belief  in it as a wood preservative.     Doug
                       Also It was a good buisness to go down to Florida and buy a couple stingray boats, bring them back to Virginia Have the engines rebult and reinstall and replace the cockpit upholster. We could buy them in pretty nice shape with the upholstery burnt up by sunlight and the engines worn out for about $2,000 after redoing we could usually sell for $20,000.  Many of the engines only needed a top end job, rings and valve job with maybe a riser replacement.  We would net about $30,000 and with some canvas work on sailboats we would wind up  with about $60,00 a year and living on a boat that was a lot of money back then.  Doug


                      On 03/02/2012 02:36 PM, mkriley48 wrote:
                       

                      I have tried everything in the years I was a professional boater.
                      Captians varnish comes out on top in terms of the least work.
                      lasts, touches up well. Varnish lasts best if wiped down with a rag once in a while. For a non varnish substitute oil based PENITROL
                      is very good and cheap. The trick to varnish is to put it on full strength.
                      mike

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Holly cow Mason, I thought I was about the only person in the world that
                      > used Tung oil any more. I like the looks off the finish above all
                      > other. Doug
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On 03/01/2012 09:27 AM, Mason Smith wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I would vote against epoxy. Whatever you do, let moisture come and go
                      > > with ambient conditions. Varnish will allow this. But if you want less
                      > > maintenance, oil might be better. I don't know spotted gum and will
                      > > not pretend to say what oil. I have been using tung oil of late, both
                      > > pure and thinned. I have long used and liked Deks Olje. Have not used,
                      > > and don't really like (what I've seen of it, on Drascombes) Cetol.
                      > > ---Mason
                      > >
                      > >
                      >


                    • Tom Sorensen
                      My experience with Penitrol is mixing it in with oil base enamel to paint my old grand banks.  makes the paint almost greasy in the way it goes on.  brush
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 2, 2012
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                        My experience with Penitrol is mixing it in with oil base enamel to paint my old grand banks.  makes the paint almost "greasy" in the way it goes on.  brush strokes lay down much nicer.  It's recommended as a "primer" coat for oil base paint.  Good stuff.

                        Tom

                        From: Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...>
                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 12:09 PM
                        Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Clear Coating alternatives

                         
                        Penitrol is good stuff. My wife and I used to redo the cockpit seats and upholstery on powerboats. The plywood armatures under the upolstery on most of them go bad in maybe 4 or 5 years. I rebult them and coated them liberally with Penatrol and when we replaced the foam and coverings maybe 7 years later the wood was still in good condition.  I have a stong belief  in it as a wood preservative.     Doug
                         Also It was a good buisness to go down to Florida and buy a couple stingray boats, bring them back to Virginia Have the engines rebult and reinstall and replace the cockpit upholster. We could buy them in pretty nice shape with the upholstery burnt up by sunlight and the engines worn out for about $2,000 after redoing we could usually sell for $20,000.  Many of the engines only needed a top end job, rings and valve job with maybe a riser replacement.  We would net about $30,000 and with some canvas work on sailboats we would wind up  with about $60,00 a year and living on a boat that was a lot of money back then.  Doug


                        On 03/02/2012 02:36 PM, mkriley48 wrote:
                         
                        I have tried everything in the years I was a professional boater.
                        Captians varnish comes out on top in terms of the least work.
                        lasts, touches up well. Varnish lasts best if wiped down with a rag once in a while. For a non varnish substitute oil based PENITROL
                        is very good and cheap. The trick to varnish is to put it on full strength.
                        mike

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Holly cow Mason, I thought I was about the only person in the world that
                        > used Tung oil any more. I like the looks off the finish above all
                        > other. Doug
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On 03/01/2012 09:27 AM, Mason Smith wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I would vote against epoxy. Whatever you do, let moisture come and go
                        > > with ambient conditions. Varnish will allow this. But if you want less
                        > > maintenance, oil might be better. I don't know spotted gum and will
                        > > not pretend to say what oil. I have been using tung oil of late, both
                        > > pure and thinned. I have long used and liked Deks Olje. Have not used,
                        > > and don't really like (what I've seen of it, on Drascombes) Cetol.
                        > > ---Mason
                        > >
                        > >
                        >




                      • Eric
                        How do you apply and maintain Deks Olie? I have clear toe rails on risers that can also be used to tie off to, plus they get foot wear when people use them
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 2, 2012
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                          How do you apply and maintain Deks Olie? I have clear toe rails on risers that can also be used to tie off to, plus they get foot wear when people use them for their intended purpose. I've also tried Cetol and not been satisfied with it. Penetrol may be the answer as some have suggested. I hadn't thought of using Tongue Oil because I didn't think it withstood wet. Anyway, I'm interested in ideas about what to use where there is wear and tear. Epoxi and hard varnish are not a good idea, though a willingness to carry and apply varnish immediately to damaged areas will get you past the problem. I'm just not that conscientious.

                          As for epoxi under varnish, It works very well when maintained. ROGUE's transom is cherry finished bright with one or two ounce fiberglass laid in epoxy of I forget how many layers. At least five layers of captains varnish over that, sanded lightly and recoated each year. Damage is attended to immediately. I am willing to do this amount of maintenance (minimal).

                          I concur that unless epoxy under varnish is well maintained it is a disaster. That is why I did not finish rub rails, spars, or toe rails with epoxy under varnish.

                          Eric



                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Mason Smith" <masonsmith@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I would vote against epoxy. Whatever you
                          > do, let moisture come and go with
                          > ambient conditions. Varnish will allow
                          > this. But if you want less maintenance,
                          > oil might be better. I don't know
                          > spotted gum and will not pretend to say
                          > what oil. I have been using tung oil of
                          > late, both pure and thinned. I have long
                          > used and liked Deks Olje. Have not used,
                          > and don't really like (what I've seen of
                          > it, on Drascombes) Cetol. ---Mason
                          >
                        • John and Kathy Trussell
                          I used Deks Olje with great success about 20 years ago, but I can t seem to find it now. Anyone know a source? JohnT _____ From: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 2, 2012
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                            I used Deks Olje with great success about 20 years ago, but I can’t seem to find it now. Anyone know a source?

                             

                            JohnT

                             


                            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Eric
                            Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 6:58 PM
                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [bolger] Re: Clear Coating alternatives

                             

                             

                            How do you apply and maintain Deks Olie? I have clear toe rails on risers that can also be used to tie off to, plus they get foot wear when people use them for their intended purpose. I've also tried Cetol and not been satisfied with it. Penetrol may be the answer as some have suggested. I hadn't thought of using Tongue Oil because I didn't think it withstood wet. Anyway, I'm interested in ideas about what to use where there is wear and tear. Epoxi and hard varnish are not a good idea, though a willingness to carry and apply varnish immediately to damaged areas will get you past the problem. I'm just not that conscientious.

                            As for epoxi under varnish, It works very well when maintained. ROGUE's transom is cherry finished bright with one or two ounce fiberglass laid in epoxy of I forget how many layers. At least five layers of captains varnish over that, sanded lightly and recoated each year. Damage is attended to immediately. I am willing to do this amount of maintenance (minimal).

                            I concur that unless epoxy under varnish is well maintained it is a disaster. That is why I did not finish rub rails, spars, or toe rails with epoxy under varnish.

                            Eric

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Mason Smith" <masonsmith@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I would vote against epoxy. Whatever you
                            > do, let moisture come and go with
                            > ambient conditions. Varnish will allow
                            > this. But if you want less maintenance,
                            > oil might be better. I don't know
                            > spotted gum and will not pretend to say
                            > what oil. I have been using tung oil of
                            > late, both pure and thinned. I have long
                            > used and liked Deks Olje. Have not used,
                            > and don't really like (what I've seen of
                            > it, on Drascombes) Cetol. ---Mason
                            >

                          • RSS
                            That was my experience too; and a lot of work to get the peeling epoxy off. Then it was varnish, but that had to be done every year in northern latitudes.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Mar 3, 2012
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                              That was my experience too; and a lot of work to get the peeling epoxy off. Then it was varnish, but that had to be done every year in northern latitudes. When getting ready to head to south I kept reading how in the tropics you could find yourself varnishing every three to four months. I had thought of trying some of those new (then) expensive varnishes with UV protectors in them, but by then I was getting to be a practical sailor so painted all wood surfaces, including the mast. I really hated varnishing that while hanging in a bosens chair! I followed the advice of "Do you want to be at anchor varnishing, or having fun?" I chose fun :) While I enjoy building, I have never enjoyed sanding, varnishing or painting and want to do as little of that as possible.
                              Will always take function over useless beauty when it means work for me. Also, remember that "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"; whether it be boats or women or art we all don't have to think alike LOL!
                              Bob


                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <eric14850@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > How do you apply and maintain Deks Olie? I have clear toe rails on risers that can also be used to tie off to, plus they get foot wear when people use them for their intended purpose. I've also tried Cetol and not been satisfied with it. Penetrol may be the answer as some have suggested. I hadn't thought of using Tongue Oil because I didn't think it withstood wet. Anyway, I'm interested in ideas about what to use where there is wear and tear. Epoxi and hard varnish are not a good idea, though a willingness to carry and apply varnish immediately to damaged areas will get you past the problem. I'm just not that conscientious.
                              >
                              > As for epoxi under varnish, It works very well when maintained. ROGUE's transom is cherry finished bright with one or two ounce fiberglass laid in epoxy of I forget how many layers. At least five layers of captains varnish over that, sanded lightly and recoated each year. Damage is attended to immediately. I am willing to do this amount of maintenance (minimal).
                              >
                              > I concur that unless epoxy under varnish is well maintained it is a disaster. That is why I did not finish rub rails, spars, or toe rails with epoxy under varnish.
                              >
                              > Eric
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Mason Smith" <masonsmith@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > I would vote against epoxy. Whatever you
                              > > do, let moisture come and go with
                              > > ambient conditions. Varnish will allow
                              > > this. But if you want less maintenance,
                              > > oil might be better. I don't know
                              > > spotted gum and will not pretend to say
                              > > what oil. I have been using tung oil of
                              > > late, both pure and thinned. I have long
                              > > used and liked Deks Olje. Have not used,
                              > > and don't really like (what I've seen of
                              > > it, on Drascombes) Cetol. ---Mason
                              > >
                              >
                            • Mason Smith
                              More on clear coatings, since Penetrol s been mentioned. I have heard that it is one of the ingredients of Deks Olje - for what that s worth, not much. I have
                              Message 14 of 29 , Mar 3, 2012
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                                More on clear coatings, since Penetrol’s been mentioned. I have heard that it is one of the ingredients of Deks Olje – for what that’s worth, not much. I have friends who never liked Deks Olje (and I never liked that you could not find out what was in it) and preferred other marine penetrating finishes, which indeed seem to work fine, too. I have use the one-two punch of Deks I and II. It’s been especially good on a very old and still very hard-used Rushton Florida model Pleasure Rowboat. Minimum maintenance and easy maintenance, and awfully good for the wood.

                                If anybody still wants a recommendation on clear coating with epoxy, I am sure there are other great products but I did, while I used it, admire System Three’s Clear Coat, all solids but penetrating and as brushable as varnish. And I’ll second the recommendation of Captain’s Varnish for general use. Epifanes on great antique boats and showboats. Also Interlux Schooner and its variants, which we’ve been using on the brightwork of the Sound Inter Club restorations (watch for the WB article). Over epoxy, if you must, use the best filter package you can get, i.e. Flagship over Captain’s. and still, revarnish early and often or rue the day.

                              • Douglas Pollard
                                ... I have used shellac instead of epoxy for clear coating. Shellac is less porous than epoxy. A couple of coats seals the wood well. Then a few coats of
                                Message 15 of 29 , Mar 3, 2012
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                                  On 03/03/2012 11:37 AM, Mason Smith wrote:  

                                  More on clear coatings, since Penetrol’s been mentioned. I have heard that it is one of the ingredients of Deks Olje – for what that’s worth, not much. I have friends who never liked Deks Olje (and I never liked that you could not find out what was in it) and preferred other marine penetrating finishes, which indeed seem to work fine, too. I have use the one-two punch of Deks I and II. It’s been especially good on a very old and still very hard-used Rushton Florida model Pleasure Rowboat. Minimum maintenance and easy maintenance, and awfully good for the wood.

                                  If anybody still wants a recommendation on clear coating with epoxy, I am sure there are other great products but I did, while I used it, admire System Three’s Clear Coat, all solids but penetrating and as brushable as varnish. And I’ll second the recommendation of Captain’s Varnish for general use. Epifanes on great antique boats and showboats. Also Interlux Schooner and its variants, which we’ve been using on the brightwork of the Sound Inter Club restorations (watch for the WB article). Over epoxy, if you must, use the best filter package you can get, i.e. Flagship over Captain’s. and still, revarnish early and often or rue the day.

                                  I have used shellac instead of epoxy for clear coating. Shellac is less porous than epoxy.  A couple of coats seals the wood well. Then a few coats of varnish over top gives it the UV protection it and epoxy require. So the wood is well protected and the Shellac is easy to remove when the time comes.  I have all the yellow pine bright work on my Elver canoe yawl fished with this process and though yellow pine is hard to keep varnish on this combination holds up well and is easy to redo.  On this pine I use orange shellac and it really brings out the beauty of the pine.  Clear is best for teak and Mahogany.        Doug
                                • Andrew
                                  I have a can of Penetrol (made by Flood) but it doesn t mention anything about it being a treatment in it s own right. The can talks about mixing it with oil
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 5, 2012
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                                    I have a can of Penetrol (made by Flood) but it doesn't mention anything about it being a treatment in it's own right. The can talks about mixing it with oil based paint to make it stick to anything, or about painting it on rusty steel to make paint stick. Is this the same stuff?

                                    Andrew

                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Penitrol is good stuff. <snip>
                                  • mkriley48
                                    yes
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 5, 2012
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                                      yes

                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I have a can of Penetrol (made by Flood) but it doesn't mention anything about it being a treatment in it's own right. The can talks about mixing it with oil based paint to make it stick to anything, or about painting it on rusty steel to make paint stick. Is this the same stuff?
                                      >
                                      > Andrew
                                      >
                                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Penitrol is good stuff. <snip>
                                      >
                                    • Douglas Pollard
                                      I have part of a five gallon can of it that I bought years ago. I don t think I have ever read the label. All I know is most of us with old wooden boats have
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Mar 5, 2012
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                                        I have part of a five gallon can of it that I bought years ago.  I don't think I have ever read the label. All I know is most of us with old wooden boats have been using it as far back as I can remember. My father used it.  It's been used as a finish with sometimes varnish added ,tung oil ,linseed oil. We used to mix pine tar with it to preseve wood.  Many Work boats had their spars finished with pine tar and linseed oil mixed and others used Penetrol. I have always used it in paint. WE used to buy cheap oilbased house paint and mix Penatrol with it and it worked and held up as good as the best marine finished for little money.  I guess I use it out of habbit now.
                                            I likely have enough left to last my lifetime so I guess I will continue to use it. With the hazmat laws being what they are, it may be too expensive now days?                       Doug

                                        On 03/05/2012 09:27 AM, mkriley48 wrote:
                                         

                                        yes

                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I have a can of Penetrol (made by Flood) but it doesn't mention anything about it being a treatment in it's own right. The can talks about mixing it with oil based paint to make it stick to anything, or about painting it on rusty steel to make paint stick. Is this the same stuff?
                                        >
                                        > Andrew
                                        >
                                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Penitrol is good stuff. <snip>
                                        >


                                      • Douglas Pollard
                                        They may no longer promote it for the same reasons they don t promote lead paint on houses. I think it is hazardous and of course that,s the reason it prevents
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Mar 5, 2012
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                                          They may no longer promote it for the same reasons they don't promote lead paint on houses. I think it is hazardous and of course that,s the reason it prevents rot.            Doug


                                          On 03/05/2012 09:27 AM, mkriley48 wrote:
                                           

                                          yes

                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I have a can of Penetrol (made by Flood) but it doesn't mention anything about it being a treatment in it's own right. The can talks about mixing it with oil based paint to make it stick to anything, or about painting it on rusty steel to make paint stick. Is this the same stuff?
                                          >
                                          > Andrew
                                          >
                                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Penitrol is good stuff. <snip>
                                          >


                                        • Tom Sorensen
                                          The last time I bought Penetrol, I cant remember what the price was, but it didnt freak me out.  I use it with Miller marine spar enamel at @ 40% of the cost
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Mar 5, 2012
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                                            The last time I bought Penetrol, I cant remember what the price was, but it didnt freak me out.  I use it with Miller marine spar enamel at @ 40% of the cost of interlux, and as far as i can tell Im giving up nothing in terms of finish or durability.  Buddy of mine is a professional paint contractor,, says he'd never pay the premium for "marine" paint.


                                            From: Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...>
                                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 6:47 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Clear Coating alternatives

                                             
                                            I have part of a five gallon can of it that I bought years ago.  I don't think I have ever read the label. All I know is most of us with old wooden boats have been using it as far back as I can remember. My father used it.  It's been used as a finish with sometimes varnish added ,tung oil ,linseed oil. We used to mix pine tar with it to preseve wood.  Many Work boats had their spars finished with pine tar and linseed oil mixed and others used Penetrol. I have always used it in paint. WE used to buy cheap oilbased house paint and mix Penatrol with it and it worked and held up as good as the best marine finished for little money.  I guess I use it out of habbit now.
                                                I likely have enough left to last my lifetime so I guess I will continue to use it. With the hazmat laws being what they are, it may be too expensive now days?                       Doug

                                            On 03/05/2012 09:27 AM, mkriley48 wrote:
                                             
                                            yes

                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I have a can of Penetrol (made by Flood) but it doesn't mention anything about it being a treatment in it's own right. The can talks about mixing it with oil based paint to make it stick to anything, or about painting it on rusty steel to make paint stick. Is this the same stuff?
                                            >
                                            > Andrew
                                            >
                                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Penitrol is good stuff. <snip>
                                            >




                                          • John Kohnen
                                            Deks Olje disappeared for a while when the parent company got bought up by someone not interested in making it. But an outfit in Florida got ahold of
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Mar 5, 2012
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                                              Deks Olje disappeared for a while when the parent company got bought up by
                                              someone not interested in making it. <shrug> But an outfit in Florida got
                                              ahold of the rights to it, and Deks Olje is again being made:

                                              http://www.deksolje.com/

                                              On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:09:53 -0800, John T wrote:

                                              > I used Deks Olje with great success about 20 years ago, but I can't seem
                                              > to
                                              > find it now. Anyone know a source?

                                              --
                                              John (jkohnen@...)
                                              A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on.
                                              (William Burroughs)
                                            • John and Kathy Trussell
                                              Thanks so much. Ain t the internet wonderful! John ... From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Kohnen Sent: Monday,
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Mar 5, 2012
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                                                Thanks so much. Ain't the internet wonderful!

                                                John

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                                John Kohnen
                                                Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 5:54 PM
                                                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Clear Coating alternatives

                                                Deks Olje disappeared for a while when the parent company got bought up by
                                                someone not interested in making it. <shrug> But an outfit in Florida got
                                                ahold of the rights to it, and Deks Olje is again being made:

                                                http://www.deksolje.com/

                                                On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:09:53 -0800, John T wrote:

                                                > I used Deks Olje with great success about 20 years ago, but I can't seem
                                                > to
                                                > find it now. Anyone know a source?

                                                --
                                                John (jkohnen@...)
                                                A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on.
                                                (William Burroughs)


                                                ------------------------------------

                                                Bolger rules!!!
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                                                horses
                                                - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                                - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                                - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
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                                              • Ford Walton
                                                Deks Olje is also available from Jamestown Distributors in Rhode Island, www.JamestownDistributors.com ,800-423-0030. Ford Walton ... From: John Kohnen
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Mar 6, 2012
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                                                  Deks Olje is also available from Jamestown Distributors in Rhode Island, www.JamestownDistributors.com ,800-423-0030.

                                                  Ford Walton

                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: John Kohnen <jhkohnen@...>
                                                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:53:55 -0500 (EST)
                                                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Clear Coating alternatives

                                                  Deks Olje disappeared for a while when the parent company got bought up by
                                                  someone not interested in making it. <shrug> But an outfit in Florida got
                                                  ahold of the rights to it, and Deks Olje is again being made:

                                                  http://www.deksolje.com/

                                                  On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:09:53 -0800, John T wrote:

                                                  > I used Deks Olje with great success about 20 years ago, but I can't seem
                                                  > to
                                                  > find it now. Anyone know a source?

                                                  --
                                                  John (jkohnen@...)
                                                  A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on.
                                                  (William Burroughs)


                                                  ------------------------------------

                                                  Bolger rules!!!
                                                  - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                                  - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                                                  - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                                  - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                                  - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                                  - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                  - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                • Eric
                                                  I ll second the lack of satisfaction with Cetol. It has an ugly orange ting, even over black walnut, doesn t preserve itself or the wood against fungus, and
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , May 22 6:19 AM
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                                                    I'll second the lack of satisfaction with Cetol. It has an ugly orange ting, even over black walnut, doesn't preserve itself or the wood against fungus, and does not hold up well. Cetol was the last thing I tried coating my toe rails and wooden cleats with. I started with Deks Ole and I may return. I am currently going through past posts looking for inspiration. At this point I am leaning toward Penetrol and Tung Oil. At least I won't have to sand it off. Thanks to all who posted their experiences.

                                                    Eric



                                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Holly cow Mason, I thought I was about the only person in the world that
                                                    > used Tung oil any more. I like the looks off the finish above all
                                                    > other. Doug
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > On 03/01/2012 09:27 AM, Mason Smith wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I would vote against epoxy. Whatever you do, let moisture come and go
                                                    > > with ambient conditions. Varnish will allow this. But if you want less
                                                    > > maintenance, oil might be better. I don't know spotted gum and will
                                                    > > not pretend to say what oil. I have been using tung oil of late, both
                                                    > > pure and thinned. I have long used and liked Deks Olje. Have not used,
                                                    > > and don't really like (what I've seen of it, on Drascombes) Cetol.
                                                    > > ---Mason
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
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