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Re: [bolger] Re: Schooner on ebay

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  • Susanne@comcast.net
    Your question confirms what I thought might be the case... Phil did advocate shallow-draft but also... And that is what a lot of folks have talked about in
    Message 1 of 40 , Feb 23, 2012
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      Your question confirms what I thought might be the case...
      Phil did advocate shallow-draft but also...

      And that is what a lot of folks have talked about in this forum - however 'uninspiring' to some - , reflecting Phil's highly-evolved definition of shallow-draft-at-sea.  'Leopard' at least once came to Gloucester and she is what she is.

      The reason why these 'period'-derived flavors get designed by a few is because Phil explicitly chose not to - after some early experimenting and much subsequent thought.  That shallow-draft 'market-segment' is apparently being filled now...

      Worthwhile studying:  South-West Pacific Inter-Island Motor-sailing Trader SIR JOSEPH BANKS, drawn to 90'+ length and still under 4' of hull-draft.  But she is high-sided enough to allow taking super-shallow draft to sea, as confirmed by an Australian 'Second Opinion' on her decades ago.

      A full-scale Mid-Atlantic Coast Schooner Replica came to town last summer, tall rig, low sides, shallow, and (painfully) obvious why new-built 1:1-scale 'Pride-of-Baltimore' was lost 'suddenly', albeit tragically predictably so.  That visiting vessel last summer will never be exposable to the average East-Coast range of conditions without a weary eye on the weather, early-on reducing sail, and starting the engines....   Even with full-time seasoned crews, these geometries proved 'challenging', incl. 'sisterships' attempted for fishing out of Gloucester, with some built, owned, sailed, lost by one branch of Phil's ancestors.  Too low-sided! 

      Scaling them down does not inherently improve the breed.

      Enough folks in this forum have examined the underlying premises.  Even Bruce Kirby came to agree...

      Susanne Altenburger, PB&F


        

       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 8:52 PM
      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Schooner on ebay

       

      Susanne,"
       
      I'm not sure what you are getting at here with that comment?
       
      " I wonder whether Parker's scaled-down 'Pilot-Schooner'-derivative reflects Phil's conclusions on low and shallow sailing-craft ?"""
       
      Is it positive or negative? I know Phil was a very keen advocate for shallow draft and fair enough..so is Reuel Parker...his own Schooner "Leopard"at 60' LOD only had 4'draft with the C.B up!
       
      I respect Reuel's judgement because, like Phil , he's basically self-taught (Boat designig)...But..has studied engineering...has built many boats  and has extesively cruised and lived aboard boats for many years



      From: "Susanne@..." <philbolger@...>
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 12:36 PM
      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Schooner on ebay

       
      
      Mr. Tyson,
           about your remarks about the group, if you wonder for instance whether Mr. Hallman actually builds boats you may want to go back in this forum and examine his single-handed output in the shop, on the PC and online.  There is a wide range between folks relative 'productivity' and their online profile happily sharing in the discussion.  For instance, Mr.Lenihan's WoodenBoat-postings are extensive, with the modified Windermere-project taking around, say, near a decade (?).

      Having tried my hand at such a project over the last year I can see how things slow down and speed up, and how at times for some of us talking and digressing on to other designs and projects is part of the deal.

      I hope the new project will help balance your 'books' again...
      Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

      P.S. I wonder whether Parker's scaled-down 'Pilot-Schooner'-derivative reflects Phil's conclusions on low and shallow sailing-craft ?

            
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 7:59 PM
      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Schooner on ebay [1 Attachment]

       
      It seems to me that the majority of subscribers to this website aren't interested in quality boats..just slap together...cheap and nasty throw-aways..Bolger was an innovator for this type of craft...but his best designs( In my biased opinion) are always the round bottomed traditionally built..either power or sail. I know this will offend ..but I'm tired of the Bolger group and will be un-subscribing soon. Bruce Hallmans postings of his rough interpretations of Bolger's designs are interesting...but does he actually build boats? Has he launched his "Topaz"yet...
       
      I miss the witty and sometime irreverant postings of Peter Lenihan  and Le Mouton Noir de la Kingston!..Bruce Hector..: since those two erudite  fellow have given up on this group its really become quite boring..trivial S***. !
       
      As I posted ...Reuel Parker has done me a design for a 42'Schooner...based on the Virginia Pilot Boats of the 1800's...at a very reasonable price..and in about 12 weeks not 5  years with no result!
       
      At the moment I'm looking forwadrs to the 21' Handy Bill (Harry Bryan design) about to be launched soon!
       
      Bye Bye Bolgerados!
       
      PS. Dad sold Beluga(Too) for $39000 so the asking price of $69000 for a used boat (even given inflation) is absurd

      From: etap28 <dave.irland@...>
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 2:22 AM
      Subject: [bolger] Re: Schooner on ebay

       
      Kills me. I'd be all over that boat if it were only on the correct coast.

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mathew <surelyujest71@...> wrote:
      >
      > 4 1/2 hours to go.  She's a beauty, alright.  I can imagine living on that and doing some awesome travelling.
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: David <dir_cobb@...>
      > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:19 AM
      > Subject: [bolger] Re: Schooner on ebay
      >
      >
      >  
      > Very tempting. Just a bit too far for me...
      >
      > David
      > Santiago
      > Chile
      >
      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
      > >
      > > So true! See the copy of Wooden Boat Magazine on the galley counter in photo 5?
      > >
      > >
      > > 2012/2/21 Harry James <welshman@>
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Got one day to go, ever so tempting
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Classic-40-Gaff-Schooner-/200715862633?pt=Sailboats&hash=item2ebb990269
      > > >
      > > > HJ
      > > >
      > >
      >





    • Peter
      It arrived yesterday in my Messing About in Boats. The suggestion to move the light engine forward is a recurrent theme. Have any other designers done that?
      Message 40 of 40 , Sep 28, 2012
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        It arrived yesterday in my Messing About in Boats.

        The suggestion to move the light engine forward is a recurrent theme. Have any other designers done that?

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jimrudholm@...> wrote:
        >
        > Susanne,
        > I am interested in seeing the "Silverblase" concept study.
        > Thank you.
        > Jim Rudholm, 2600 Sierra St., Kingsburg, CA 93631
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, <philbolger@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Hugo,
        > > can you update me on your current address ?
        > > I am at long last in a position to send you a hard-copy of the lost concept study for the light runabout.
        > > Susanne
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Hugo Tyson
        > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:40 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Tyson on Schooner on ebay etc.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I'm sorry Susanne....no bad feelings.
        > >
        > > I never received any drawings..I did move address..but I did send you a letter..but I suppose in the hectic time when you were doing work for the goverment(Navy-Marines?) it may have been lost/overlooked?
        > >
        > > Phil was a real inspiration to me( and my father Bruce)...I've moved on....and things change...I'm not interested in powerboats any more...I hate the way the world is consuming its rescources and I love Phil's and your vision for "Greener"and more cost effective fishing vessels. We need them here in Tasmania! Fish once was realitivly cheap..now its a luxury!
        > >
        > > PS. Post the design in MAIB.....maybe with just a straight forward prop shaft...the retacting idea ...maybe was a bit unrealistic given the power required to give the boat reasonable performance?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > From: "Susanne@" <philbolger@>
        > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 12:23 PM
        > > Subject: [bolger] Re: Tyson on Schooner on ebay etc.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 
        > > Mr. Tyson,
        > > as you are leaving, I'll inform you that at long last I've retrieved an aged blue-line print of 'Silverblaze'. I was certain we had sent it with commentary. Since I've not been able to find the original, I assume that it was inadvertently sent, and to the wrong address at that, it seems... Once a master key was sent out.
        > >
        > > Beautiful shape, promising balances despite unusual shape, interesting drive-train, but dead-problematic idea of un-modified automotive power-plant too high in the hull since it would need to be self-draining... The improved marinized engine version will become part of the MAIB series like everything else so far across some 430-440 installments now.
        > >
        > > I'll put a copy of the study in the mail.
        > >
        > > Regards
        > > Susanne Altenburger
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Hugo Tyson
        > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 7:59 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Schooner on ebay [1 Attachment]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > It seems to me that the majority of subscribers to this website aren't interested in quality boats..just slap together...cheap and nasty throw-aways..Bolger was an innovator for this type of craft...but his best designs( In my biased opinion) are always the round bottomed traditionally built..either power or sail. I know this will offend ..but I'm tired of the Bolger group and will be un-subscribing soon. Bruce Hallmans postings of his rough interpretations of Bolger's designs are interesting...but does he actually build boats? Has he launched his "Topaz"yet...
        > >
        > > I miss the witty and sometime irreverant postings of Peter Lenihan and Le Mouton Noir de la Kingston!..Bruce Hector..: since those two erudite fellow have given up on this group its really become quite boring..trivial S***. !
        > >
        > > As I posted ...Reuel Parker has done me a design for a 42'Schooner...based on the Virginia Pilot Boats of the 1800's...at a very reasonable price..and in about 12 weeks not 5 years with no result!
        > >
        > > At the moment I'm looking forwadrs to the 21' Handy Bill (Harry Bryan design) about to be launched soon!
        > >
        > > Bye Bye Bolgerados!
        > >
        > > PS. Dad sold Beluga(Too) for $39000 so the asking price of $69000 for a used boat (even given inflation) is absurd
        > >
        > >
        > > From: etap28 <dave.irland@>
        > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 2:22 AM
        > > Subject: [bolger] Re: Schooner on ebay
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Kills me. I'd be all over that boat if it were only on the correct coast.
        > >
        > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mathew <surelyujest71@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > 4 1/2 hours to go. She's a beauty, alright. I can imagine living on that and doing some awesome travelling.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ________________________________
        > > > From: David <dir_cobb@>
        > > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:19 AM
        > > > Subject: [bolger] Re: Schooner on ebay
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Â
        > > > Very tempting. Just a bit too far for me...
        > > >
        > > > David
        > > > Santiago
        > > > Chile
        > > >
        > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > So true! See the copy of Wooden Boat Magazine on the galley counter in photo 5?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > 2012/2/21 Harry James <welshman@>
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Got one day to go, ever so tempting
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Classic-40-Gaff-Schooner-/200715862633?pt=Sailboats&hash=item2ebb990269
        > > > > >
        > > > > > HJ
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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