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Re: Micro in Noosa

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  • Peter
    ... A lot of Micros have been painted bright colors. I think they look good that way.
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2011
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      > I used green for the topsides on my Oldshoe,
      > the little sister to Micro. See it in the photos section.

      A lot of Micros have been painted bright colors. I think they look good that way.
    • prairiedog2332
      I believe Bolger has mentioned that light colors are beneficial if one lives in a climate that is usually hot with a lot sun. He even mentioned aluminum paint
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2011
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        I believe Bolger has mentioned that light colors are beneficial if one
        lives in a climate that is usually hot with a lot sun. He even mentioned
        aluminum paint in one of his articles as being very "cool" and looked
        quite attractive from a distance.

        Nels


        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I used green for the topsides on my Oldshoe,
        > > the little sister to Micro. See it in the photos section.
        >
        > A lot of Micros have been painted bright colors. I think they look
        good that way.
        >
      • RSS
        I love hunter green, but fiberglass in the sun does not. I started to see some print through so switched to yellow and don t see this anymore. A lot of writing
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 2, 2011
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          I love hunter green, but fiberglass in the sun does not. I started to see some print through so switched to yellow and don't see this anymore. A lot of writing has been done about this. White would probably be best, but with almost all the factory plastic boats being white I wanted something different. Besides that there isn't anything natural out on the water that is yellow, so I am high visability giving careless drunken boaters the best chance of actually noticing me and not colliding :) As far as aluminum color goes stick that in the sun along side white and you will see a huge different in heat. I found this out decades ago when I had a propane bottle painted in aluminum next to one painted white. I couldn't hold my hand down on the aluminum one while the white one felt cool. That's why the flat surfaces, decks, cabin tops,etc. on all my boats are always white. Really helps keep things cooler down below.
          Bob

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I used green for the topsides on my Oldshoe,
          > > the little sister to Micro. See it in the photos section.
          >
          > A lot of Micros have been painted bright colors. I think they look good that way.
          >
        • Scot Mc Pherson
          ... you will see a huge different in heat The original color mentioned was aluminum white not aluminum color , but I think he meant Titanium White. Titanium
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 2, 2011
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            >  As far as aluminum color goes stick that in the sun along side white and you will see a huge different in heat
             
            The original color mentioned was "aluminum white" not "aluminum color", but I think he meant Titanium White. Titanium white has a significantly higher albedo than other white colors and across a great frequency range. In fact it also reflects ultraviolet, which is an additional source of solar heat. It would have as noticable a difference in heating between itself and regular whites as regular white does to light grey or aluminum color.
             
             
             

            Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
            McPherson Family Farms
            Le Claire, IA, USA

          • Chester Young
            I would have to concur. My wife quipped that the new top for the cockpit on EstherMae would look really good in silver that mimicked the Galvalume roof on our
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 2, 2011
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              I would have to concur.  My wife quipped that the new top for the cockpit on EstherMae would look really good in silver that mimicked the Galvalume roof on our house.  A friend of ours then produced an acrylic paint with silver pigment that looks really good.  Problem is that it absorbs heat to the point that you do not want to lay your bare hand on it when in the sun.  The divinycell core keeps the heat transmission limited so the interior is insulated and cool but the exterior is way hot.  Since we are here in Florida with a lot of sunshine it is possible that a color change is in the near future.  But that is very much the way things go, error then correction, error then correction, anything else and it just would not be the same.  Of course if this thread had come up three weeks ago there would have been discussion about the color and possible temperature consideration, I do know that the remainder of the top sides will not be silver.  ~Caloosarat  

               

              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scot Mc Pherson
              Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 2:53 PM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Micro in Noosa

               

               

              >  As far as aluminum color goes stick that in the sun along side white and you will see a huge different in heat

               

              The original color mentioned was "aluminum white" not "aluminum color", but I think he meant Titanium White. Titanium white has a significantly higher albedo than other white colors and across a great frequency range. In fact it also reflects ultraviolet, which is an additional source of solar heat. It would have as noticable a difference in heating between itself and regular whites as regular white does to light grey or aluminum color.

               

               

               


              Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
              McPherson Family Farms
              Le Claire, IA, USA

            • Peter
              ... Yeah, there is a phenomenon here that I don t understand. What you describe is also true of unpainted aluminum. You would think the highly reflective
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 3, 2011
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                > Problem is that it absorbs heat to the
                > point that you do not want to lay your bare hand on it
                > when in the sun.

                Yeah, there is a phenomenon here that I don't understand. What you describe is also true of unpainted aluminum. You would think the highly reflective surfaces would stay cool, but they don't.

                On maybe, the metal just transfers heat to your hand faster than a painted wood surface.

                We need some science here.

                Peter
              • Scot Mc Pherson
                ... describe is also true of unpainted aluminum. You would think the highly reflective surfaces would stay cool, but they don t. ... wood surface. ... Let me
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 3, 2011
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                  >> Problem is that it absorbs heat to the
                  >> point that you do not want to lay your bare hand on it
                  >> when in the sun.

                  >Yeah, there is a phenomenon here that I don't understand. What you describe is also true of unpainted aluminum. You >would think the highly reflective surfaces would stay cool, but they don't.

                  >On maybe, the metal just transfers heat to your hand faster than a painted wood surface.

                  >We need some science here.
                  Let me try to help and keep it as plain english as possible....
                   
                   
                  You can make black all nice and super shiny too, but it's still going to trap tons of photons and get extraordinarily hot. It's not just how shiny it is, the color represents which frequencies are absorbed or reflected. Shades of grey trap all colors of light photons (frequency), just to varying degrees...black traps more photons more effectively. Titanium white has extraordinarily high albedo. It traps the least number of photons, and therefore stays the coolest.
                   
                  The reason why metal get so damn hot is because not only is the surface trapping photons, but the heat that is generated travels through the conductive material. Since the surface get's cooler because of this heat sink, it means it can absorb even more heat energy from the sun, and transfer more of it through the metal....i.e. the metal stores the heat. An insulator gets just as hot on the surface, but instead of sinking the heat down into the material, the heat radiates out into the air, so the cooler background behind the surface of the insulated material means it appears very cool. The hot layer is so very thin that as soon as you touch it, your skin cools it down and not enough heat is transfered through your skin to your nerve endings to register the hotness as HOT, though it may feel initially warm for a few moments if the energy heat was enough to reach nerve endings before being completely disappated off through your skin.
                   
                  If you painted styrofoam with a thin layer of black, you can test this yourself...Experiment, use spray paint to make a very thin layer of black paint, a brush to make a thicker one, and even a few coats on a third stripe to make a nice thick covering. Lay it out in the sun, the paint will get hot really fast, but when you touch it, it will cool very quickly....The thicker layers will cool slower and will feel hot for a few seconds more.....
                   
                  Do the same with a metal rod...paint it black, thin with spray paint and thick with brush as before....You will not notice any difference between the paint jobs...they'll all get very hot because the metal is the heat sink and it's storing the heat energy.
                   
                  Do the same experiment with white....oboviously sytrofoam is usually white to begin with....
                   
                  The metal rod paint white with different thicknesses of white....it'll still get hot....not as hot as the black and it will take longer, but it will still get hot because the metal sinks the heat and stores it allowing the surface to capture more photons and covert it to heat. The styrofoam will get warm too, but it will cool so quickly when you touch it, it may not register because the stryofoam is an insulator not a conductor..the heat stays on the surface and radiates away.
                   
                  I hope this helps explain how color and materials can interact to either augment or reduce heat from solar gain.
                   

                  Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
                  McPherson Family Farms
                  Le Claire, IA, USA



                  On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Peter <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
                   


                  Peter


                • Chester Young
                  If I understand this correctly the silver color atop the ¾ oz mat with a layer of 1708 in polyester resin transfers enough heat that absorption into the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 3, 2011
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                    If I understand this correctly the silver color atop the ¾ oz mat with a layer of 1708 in polyester resin transfers enough heat that absorption into the fiberglass occurs.  When you place your hand on the top it does not cool very quickly.  Since the foam does not absorb the heat that leaves it up to the fiberglass which has enough mass to radiate for a longer period of time than I want to keep my hand on it.

                     

                    The top was built so that two or three people can stand on it, it is 6’ wide and 8’ in length with four corner posts and 1”x4” frame 3” inset from the edge.  There is no other framing under the top and there is no noticeable deflection when a person stands on it.  There is a traverse camber to the top such that there is a midpoint “E” of about 1½”.  Aside from the color’s heat absorbing property I am extremely pleased with the outcome.  The top is right at 100 lbs with frame, the prior top was plywood with a thin layer of cloth and weighed 85 lbs at the time it was removed.  It was not even sufficient for a person to crawl on at that point in time.  It also has a tilt towards the stern when sitting in the water and ribs along the sides and two ribs down the middle.  Now the rain runs to the stern instead of off of the top along the sides.

                     

                    ~Caloosarat

                     

                    From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scot Mc Pherson
                    Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 11:00 AM
                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Micro in Noosa

                     

                     

                    >> Problem is that it absorbs heat to the

                    >> point that you do not want to lay your bare hand on it
                    >> when in the sun.

                    >Yeah, there is a phenomenon here that I don't understand. What you describe is also true of unpainted aluminum. You >would think the highly reflective surfaces would stay cool, but they don't.

                    >On maybe, the metal just transfers heat to your hand faster than a painted wood surface.

                    >We need some science here.

                    Let me try to help and keep it as plain english as possible....

                     

                     

                    You can make black all nice and super shiny too, but it's still going to trap tons of photons and get extraordinarily hot. It's not just how shiny it is, the color represents which frequencies are absorbed or reflected. Shades of grey trap all colors of light photons (frequency), just to varying degrees...black traps more photons more effectively. Titanium white has extraordinarily high albedo. It traps the least number of photons, and therefore stays the coolest.

                     

                    The reason why metal get so damn hot is because not only is the surface trapping photons, but the heat that is generated travels through the conductive material. Since the surface get's cooler because of this heat sink, it means it can absorb even more heat energy from the sun, and transfer more of it through the metal....i.e. the metal stores the heat. An insulator gets just as hot on the surface, but instead of sinking the heat down into the material, the heat radiates out into the air, so the cooler background behind the surface of the insulated material means it appears very cool. The hot layer is so very thin that as soon as you touch it, your skin cools it down and not enough heat is transfered through your skin to your nerve endings to register the hotness as HOT, though it may feel initially warm for a few moments if the energy heat was enough to reach nerve endings before being completely disappated off through your skin.

                     

                    If you painted styrofoam with a thin layer of black, you can test this yourself...Experiment, use spray paint to make a very thin layer of black paint, a brush to make a thicker one, and even a few coats on a third stripe to make a nice thick covering. Lay it out in the sun, the paint will get hot really fast, but when you touch it, it will cool very quickly....The thicker layers will cool slower and will feel hot for a few seconds more.....

                     

                    Do the same with a metal rod...paint it black, thin with spray paint and thick with brush as before....You will not notice any difference between the paint jobs...they'll all get very hot because the metal is the heat sink and it's storing the heat energy.

                     

                    Do the same experiment with white....oboviously sytrofoam is usually white to begin with....

                     

                    The metal rod paint white with different thicknesses of white....it'll still get hot....not as hot as the black and it will take longer, but it will still get hot because the metal sinks the heat and stores it allowing the surface to capture more photons and covert it to heat. The styrofoam will get warm too, but it will cool so quickly when you touch it, it may not register because the stryofoam is an insulator not a conductor..the heat stays on the surface and radiates away.

                     

                    I hope this helps explain how color and materials can interact to either augment or reduce heat from solar gain.

                     


                    Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
                    McPherson Family Farms
                    Le Claire, IA, USA


                    On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Peter <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:

                     


                    Peter

                     

                  • RSS
                    Hi Chester! Right! We keep on making mistakes; just, hopefully, different ones and not the same mistakes over and over LOL! We leave it to the government to
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 3, 2011
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                      Hi Chester!
                      Right! We keep on making mistakes; just, hopefully, different ones and not the same mistakes over and over LOL! We leave it to the government to make the same ones over and over :) It's what they do best!
                      Did you ever post how your changes in Esther Mae turned out? If so I missed it, which is possible since I don't have time to read the post throughly every day.
                      Bob

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chester Young" <chester@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I would have to concur. My wife quipped that the new top for the cockpit on
                      > EstherMae would look really good in silver that mimicked the Galvalume roof
                      > on our house. A friend of ours then produced an acrylic paint with silver
                      > pigment that looks really good. Problem is that it absorbs heat to the
                      > point that you do not want to lay your bare hand on it when in the sun. The
                      > divinycell core keeps the heat transmission limited so the interior is
                      > insulated and cool but the exterior is way hot. Since we are here in
                      > Florida with a lot of sunshine it is possible that a color change is in the
                      > near future. But that is very much the way things go, error then
                      > correction, error then correction, anything else and it just would not be
                      > the same. Of course if this thread had come up three weeks ago there would
                      > have been discussion about the color and possible temperature consideration,
                      > I do know that the remainder of the top sides will not be silver.
                      > ~Caloosarat
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      > Scot Mc Pherson
                      > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 2:53 PM
                      > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Micro in Noosa
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > > As far as aluminum color goes stick that in the sun along side white and
                      > you will see a huge different in heat
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The original color mentioned was "aluminum white" not "aluminum color", but
                      > I think he meant Titanium White. Titanium white has a significantly higher
                      > albedo than other white colors and across a great frequency range. In fact
                      > it also reflects ultraviolet, which is an additional source of solar heat.
                      > It would have as noticable a difference in heating between itself and
                      > regular whites as regular white does to light grey or aluminum color.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
                      > McPherson Family Farms
                      > Le Claire, IA, USA
                      >
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