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Re: [bolger] Introduction and 23.5 ft light schooner

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  • B. R. DeKeyser
    I have a 23.5 Light Schooner on a trailer parked in my back yard. Boat and trailer are free to anyone wanting it. I built it 20+ years ago. It is a great boat
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 13, 2011
      I have a 23.5' Light Schooner on a trailer parked in my back yard.  Boat and trailer are free to anyone wanting it.  I built it 20+ years ago.  It is a great boat and is FAST.  It would be a great project.  The hull is probably beyond repair (rot from accumulated rain in hull),  but spars & sails have been stored inside and are in very good condition.  Trailer is dirty but only needs new/used tires to be roadworthy.  If you have any questions or would like more info, feel free to contact me.

      Cheers,
      Deke
      ph 512-258-9798


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Scot Mc Pherson
      Sent: Oct 13, 2011 12:56 PM
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [bolger] Introduction and 23.5 ft light schooner

       

      Hey Bruce,
      Well we have a family of 5, My wife and I plus three boys, 13, 10 and 6. We are all excellent swimmers, and I make the kids wear life vests whether they like it or not. I won't wear mine, but I'll have it at the ready. I know the danger of not wearing it when capsizing, I have almost knocked myself out when I capsized my racing canoe that I rebuilt. The paddle in hand hit bottom, and my jaw hit it on the way down. So I know the decision I am making for myself. When the kids are adults with children of their own is when they get to chose also.
       
      I don't plan on racing the boat, just cruising with it, so we won't be trimming the sails so tightly. Will probably be sailing with jib and reefed mainsail for the first couple times until everyone is comfortable and understands their roles better. I am a fan of holding on to the sheets or having them only one turn around the cleats with hands on to let the sheets out at a moments notice. Winds are also fairly steady here, even if they are a little more turbulent when reaching down into the river valley, but gusts are fairly rare except on days one wouldn't choose to sail on anyway. That's one of the nice things about living deep in the continent. No competing shoreline updrafts to cause frequent seemingly random pressure changes. A steady 8-10 knots is most common.
       
      However that is not to say we won't enter races, just that's not her purpose....racing would just be a for fun thing in addition to just getting out and messing about.
       
      On my stretch of the mississippi, we have 30 miles between the two lock and dams here, so that's plenty of room for nice day trips.

      Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
      McPherson Family Farms
      Le Claire, IA, USA



      On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
       

      On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
      <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
      > This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
      > the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
      > same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
      I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
      others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
      because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
      'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
      'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?


    • B. R. DeKeyser
      I have a 23.5 Light Schooner on a trailer parked in my back yard. Boat and trailer are free to anyone wanting it. I built it 20+ years ago. It is a great boat
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 13, 2011
        I have a 23.5' Light Schooner on a trailer parked in my back yard.  Boat and trailer are free to anyone wanting it.  I built it 20+ years ago.  It is a great boat and is FAST.  It would be a great project.  The hull is probably beyond repair (rot from accumulated rain in hull),  but spars & sails have been stored inside and are in very good condition.  Trailer is dirty but only needs new/used tires to be roadworthy.  If you have any questions or would like more info, feel free to contact me.

        Cheers,
        Deke
        ph 512-258-9798

        -----Original Message-----
        From: BruceHallman
        Sent: Oct 13, 2011 11:48 AM
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Introduction and 23.5 ft light schooner

         

        On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
        <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
        > This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
        > the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
        > same time, and take it camping for the weekends.

        I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
        others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
        because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
        'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
        'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?

      • BruceHallman
        ... I recall at the top of this thread was the wish list for a Light Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking about fun for a group
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 14, 2011
        > I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...

        I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
        Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
        about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
        is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
        that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
        overpowered and exciting...

        http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/
      • Scot Mc Pherson
        That does look like a fun boat, but I don t have a slip. :) Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA McPherson Family Farms Le Claire, IA, USA
        Message 4 of 25 , Oct 14, 2011
          That does look like a fun boat, but I don't have a slip. :)
           

          Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
          McPherson Family Farms
          Le Claire, IA, USA



          On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:22 AM, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
           
          [Attachment(s) from BruceHallman included below]

          > I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...

          I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
          Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
          about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
          is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
          that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
          overpowered and exciting...

          http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/


        • BruceHallman
          On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Scot Mc Pherson ... Seth built one (actually two). Didn t get to launch the second one, (long story), but he did keep it and
          Message 5 of 25 , Oct 14, 2011
            On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
            <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > That does look like a fun boat, but I don't have a slip. :)
            >


            Seth built one (actually two). Didn't get to launch the second one,
            (long story), but he did keep it and trailer it for 1,000 miles before
            donating it to a good cause. That Naval Jelly Galley is a very light
            weight, quick to build Instant boat and could live on almost any
            trailer. Outrageously, (with teenage boys to help lift it) it could
            even be car-topped on an a vehicle. The sails are the biggest piece
            of work, (with each being a different shape), but they could be done
            prototype out of PolyTarp.
          • Scot Mc Pherson
            Well I have cartopped my boats before, but that one, no thank you....I don t think I could cartop my 23 light schooner either to be honest. Scot McPherson,
            Message 6 of 25 , Oct 14, 2011
              Well I have cartopped my boats before, but that one, no thank you....I don't think I could cartop my 23 light schooner either to be honest.
               

              Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
              McPherson Family Farms
              Le Claire, IA, USA



              On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 10:14 AM, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
               

              On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
              <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > That does look like a fun boat, but I don't have a slip. :)
              >

              Seth built one (actually two). Didn't get to launch the second one,
              (long story), but he did keep it and trailer it for 1,000 miles before
              donating it to a good cause. That Naval Jelly Galley is a very light
              weight, quick to build Instant boat and could live on almost any
              trailer. Outrageously, (with teenage boys to help lift it) it could
              even be car-topped on an a vehicle. The sails are the biggest piece
              of work, (with each being a different shape), but they could be done
              prototype out of PolyTarp.


            • Harry James
              Doesn t require one, trailerable. I believe it is carried down to the beach by the crew. HJ
              Message 7 of 25 , Oct 14, 2011
                Doesn't require one, trailerable. I believe it is carried down to the beach by the crew.

                HJ

                On 10/14/2011 6:31 AM, Scot Mc Pherson wrote:
                That does look like a fun boat, but I don't have a slip. :)
                 

                Scot McPherson, CISSP, MCSA
                McPherson Family Farms
                Le Claire, IA, USA



                On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:22 AM, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                 
                [Attachment(s) from BruceHallman included below]

                > I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...

                I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
                Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
                about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
                is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
                that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
                overpowered and exciting...

                http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/


              • Christopher Breaux
                Scott,   i sail a folding schooner, a lot of fun and a lot of room. with a family of five you should be able to paddle up or down stream like a war canoe!  
                Message 8 of 25 , Oct 14, 2011
                  Scott,
                   
                  i sail a folding schooner, a lot of fun and a lot of room. with a family of five you should be able to paddle up or down stream like a war canoe!
                   
                  The FS is designed for up to a 4HP motor by Mr. Bolger. I have a 5HP on mine and she really scoots at about half throttle (this includes towing a light schooner at the time). this family of sailboats is big on little resistance through the water, no problem for three boys and some paddles.
                   
                  i did not build any side decking as to not take away and cargo/crew room and have been quite satisfied with her performance over 600 miles cruising up the Texas coast.
                   
                  Best of luck with your build.
                   
                  Breaux


                  --- On Fri, 10/14/11, Scot McPherson <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:

                  From: Scot McPherson <scot.mcpherson@...>
                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Introduction and 23.5 ft light schooner
                  To: "bolger@yahoogroups.com" <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Friday, October 14, 2011, 12:58 AM

                   
                  Well, I won't be installing a motor any time soon, and perhaps I ought not to. We are a canoeing family after all, and canoe to and from our campsite anyway which is about 20 miles upriver. So....I think perhaps converting the motor well into hatched stern stowage as well as the bow and center console for lack of better word. I think that would provide the reduction of ballast from the motor and provide _quite_ a bit of added boyancy as well.

                  I have plenty of paddles, and could carve some designed for more comfortable paddling or rowing this particular vessel.

                  Thoughts?

                  Scot McPherson
                  McPherson Family Farms
                  Le Claire, IA USA
                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Oct 13, 2011, at 4:36 PM, "pkortlucke" <pkortlucke@...> wrote:

                   

                  I'd second the comments about capsize and side decks-  my Folding Schooner had buoyancy tanks along both sides so she came up from a capsize with next to no water in it. Also for 5 crew the light schooner might be a little small.
                  Link to photos of my modified 30 ft Folding Schooner.
                  Interesting when my brother wrote to Phil Bolger a few years ago with photos and descriptions of modifications like the buoyancy tanks (which allow folding/unfolding in the water) he wrote back strongly endorsing them and stating that he would include them if he ever updated the plans, which sadly will now never happen. 
                  Cheers
                  Peter
                   --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Here is Jon's LS on Jon's web site
                  >
                  > http://www.kolbsadventures.com/light_schooner_1.htm
                  >
                  > HJ
                  >
                  > On 10/13/2011 11:40 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
                  > > If you box in the cockpits to make wide side decks, as I did on my cat-schooner version, the boat will not ship any water in a knockdown. I've only done that once, but because of the wide side decks, she popped right back up and none of us got wet. The decks also provide convenient, nearly dry stowage for camping gear. I built cockpit walls with cutouts for access hatches, but never got around to buying the expensive hatches. It all works quite well with just the framed openings. My cockpits are 25" wide, which is enough for someone to sleep on the floorboards and for a good size cooler to fit atwhartships.
                  > >
                  > > Jon
                  > >
                  > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallmanhallman@ wrote:
                  > >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scot Mc Pherson
                  > >> scot.mcpherson@ wrote:
                  > >>> This winter I am starting a new sailboat project. I am going to build
                  > >>> the 23.5 light schooner so my whole family can enjoy sailing at the
                  > >>> same time, and take it camping for the weekends.
                  > >>
                  > >> I haven't personally used a Light Schooner, but I recall reading from
                  > >> others who have done so that it is an exhilarating boat to sail (and
                  > >> because of this) is also is the kind of boat that you should expect to
                  > >> 'get wet' and/or capsize once in a while. Doesn't that work with your
                  > >> 'whole family-take it camping' desire? BTW, how big is your family?
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Bolger rules!!!
                  > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                  > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                  > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • sirdarnell
                  tacking that boat must be a lot of work.
                  Message 9 of 25 , Oct 15, 2011
                    tacking that boat must be a lot of work.

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...
                    >
                    > I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
                    > Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
                    > about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
                    > is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
                    > that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
                    > overpowered and exciting...
                    >
                    > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/
                    >
                  • Harry James
                    Designed for a large crew, you have to keep them busy. HJ
                    Message 10 of 25 , Oct 15, 2011
                      Designed for a large crew, you have to keep them busy.

                      HJ

                      On 10/15/2011 8:17 PM, sirdarnell wrote:
                      > tacking that boat must be a lot of work.
                      >
                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman<hallman@...> wrote:
                      >>> I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...
                      >> I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
                      >> Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
                      >> about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
                      >> is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
                      >> that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
                      >> overpowered and exciting...
                      >>
                      >> http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Bolger rules!!!
                      > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                      > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                      > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                      > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Scot McPherson
                      The ideal performance crew size for the light schooner is 5 people. 1 on the tiller, 1 one the mainsail, 1 on the jib, 1 one the mizzen, and finally 1 on the
                      Message 11 of 25 , Oct 16, 2011
                        The ideal performance crew size for the light schooner is 5 people. 1 on the tiller, 1 one the mainsail, 1 on the jib, 1 one the mizzen, and finally 1 on the staysail if you are using it. That's perfect for my family. I can put my 6 year old on the staysail which will only get used on long and lazy reaches.

                        No gaff schooner points very well, so that's just a given there. Just means more tacks, but it also means down wind and reaching is very efficient. As far as each tack being more work? Not really unless you are using the staysail which need to be taken in and hauled back up each tack, but then again, that's not what the staysail is for. It's for catching just a few more feet of wind on a reach when the wind is gentle.

                        Scot McPherson
                        McPherson Family Farms
                        Le Claire, IA USA
                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On Oct 16, 2011, at 12:55 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:

                         

                        Designed for a large crew, you have to keep them busy.

                        HJ

                        On 10/15/2011 8:17 PM, sirdarnell wrote:
                        > tacking that boat must be a lot of work.
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman<hallman@...> wrote:
                        >>> I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered ...
                        >> I recall at the top of this thread was the "wish list" for a Light
                        >> Schooner for weekend fun for a family of 5. That gets me thinking
                        >> about fun for a group with ten hands, and the top of that list for me
                        >> is Seth's Macinko's Naval Jelly Galley! I really would love to see
                        >> that boat in action, as that is one Bolger boat that very much looks
                        >> overpowered and exciting...
                        >>
                        >> http://www.hallman.org/bolger/NJG/
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Bolger rules!!!
                        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                      • frank raisin
                        hi peter - i m an ozzie too - with a skiff (16 - bit of a handful singlehanded!) - anyway the only time i had problems with its (minimal) bouyancy arrangements
                        Message 12 of 25 , Oct 17, 2011
                          hi peter - i'm an ozzie too - with a skiff (16 - bit of a handful singlehanded!) - anyway the only time i had problems with its (minimal) bouyancy arrangements was on Shepparton lake which wasn't big enough to sail it dry before we had to tack, and the water flowed back over the gunnale .....
                           
                          in other classes (like moth, gwen, IC) i remember vowing that the one thing i'd hang onto to the last would be the mainsheet (about the only chance really - tiller, boat etc offerred no grip like it) - and that would collapse the sail if one haD rolled in to w/ward and the whole affair was taking off downwind like a portugese man o' war in a gale.   its a real sinking feeling watching that!   i defy any swimmer (short of kieran perkins) to catch a capsized boat floating high on its side in a good breeze and with its rig to windward .
                           
                          incidentally , i am particularly concerned about boats like the Scamp in this regard.  the saving grace there being that the boat is unlikely to capsize to windward (except broaching to leeward in breaking seas) and the crew is probably not sitting out but ensconsed in the cockpit anyway.
                           
                          ah well,  life's rich tapestry ....
                           
                          cheers,
                          frank
                           

                          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          From: pkortlucke@...
                          Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 01:03:18 +0000
                          Subject: [bolger] Re: side-tank bouyancy



                          None of these things were ever a problem the times we did capsize it. The buoyant masts and resistance of the sails largely prevented turtling giving plenty of time to reach the board, the centerboard was in easy reach and as we only ever sailed it in conditions less than 35 knots we never experienced conditions that could pick up 250 kg of boat and blow it away like a balloon. With respect to getting back into the righted boat we used one person on the centreboard to right it while another crew member crawled into the capsized cockpit and came up with the boat. We did also have a line amidships with a loop that allowed fairly easy access.
                          I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered Aussie Skiffs in the 70's stood us in good stead:))  The schooner with side tanks was an easy proposition.
                          Cheers
                          Peter
                           

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, frank raisin <pfrankr@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > re side-tank bouyancy ...
                          >
                          > nice to come up nearly dry IF .......
                          >
                          > - if you can get back into the righted boat (needs good agility and/or upper body strength)
                          > - if you can reach the centreboard to right the boat
                          > - if the boat hasn't turtled and become impossible to right (it could be likened to an inverted catamaran)
                          > - if you didn't lose contact with the boat and have it blow away like a baloon
                          >
                          > good luck,
                          >
                          > frank {half a century in (and out of!) small boats cruising and racing}
                          >
                          > ps. the side decks don't have to be enclosed as tanks for some of the above disadvantages to apply
                          >
                          > pps. you could fit a screw hatch in the side deck to allow flooding whilst sailing - merely have it on to fold and unfold the boat
                          >
                          >
                          >


                        • pkortlucke
                          Hi Frank I, too, have seen boats being cartwheeled downwind in an uncontrolled manner and far out of reach of the crew. Mostly these have been catamarans when
                          Message 13 of 25 , Oct 17, 2011
                            Hi Frank

                            I, too, have seen boats being cartwheeled downwind in an uncontrolled
                            manner and far out of reach of the crew. Mostly these have been
                            catamarans when the trampoline was enough sail area to launch them into
                            the air, but a light weight beamy skiff could also behave like that in
                            enough breeze. The times I have observed this is with a violent front
                            with gusts well over 40 knots- luckily I was on a much larger boat at
                            the time. I think the point needs to be made though about lightweight
                            and beamy boats like cats and skiffs which are much more likely to
                            behave like this. The schooner is narrow and long - a sharpie - so has
                            much more in the water and relatively less windage. Such a boat needs
                            much greater force to lift it out of the water. Furthermore our schooner
                            (and the Scamp) have ballast.. in our case a 45 kg steel centreplate...
                            which reduces the risk again.

                            Of course if there are severe enough conditions then any boat will be
                            picked up and tossed about- I well remember the photos of trawlers a few
                            kilometeres inland after cyclone Tracy hit Darwin in 1974. There's
                            nothing you can do about that except not be there.

                            Cheers

                            Peter


                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, frank raisin <pfrankr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > hi peter - i'm an ozzie too - with a skiff (16 - bit of a handful
                            singlehanded!) - anyway the only time i had problems with its (minimal)
                            bouyancy arrangements was on Shepparton lake which wasn't big enough to
                            sail it dry before we had to tack, and the water flowed back over the
                            gunnale .....
                            >
                            > in other classes (like moth, gwen, IC) i remember vowing that the one
                            thing i'd hang onto to the last would be the mainsheet (about the only
                            chance really - tiller, boat etc offerred no grip like it) - and that
                            would collapse the sail if one haD rolled in to w/ward and the whole
                            affair was taking off downwind like a portugese man o' war in a gale.
                            its a real sinking feeling watching that! i defy any swimmer (short of
                            kieran perkins) to catch a capsized boat floating high on its side in a
                            good breeze and with its rig to windward .
                            >
                            > incidentally , i am particularly concerned about boats like the Scamp
                            in this regard. the saving grace there being that the boat is unlikely
                            to capsize to windward (except broaching to leeward in breaking seas)
                            and the crew is probably not sitting out but ensconsed in the cockpit
                            anyway.
                            >
                            > ah well, life's rich tapestry ....
                            >
                            > cheers,
                            > frank
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: pkortlucke@...
                            > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 01:03:18 +0000
                            > Subject: [bolger] Re: side-tank bouyancy
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > None of these things were ever a problem the times we did capsize it.
                            The buoyant masts and resistance of the sails largely prevented turtling
                            giving plenty of time to reach the board, the centerboard was in easy
                            reach and as we only ever sailed it in conditions less than 35 knots we
                            never experienced conditions that could pick up 250 kg of boat and blow
                            it away like a balloon. With respect to getting back into the righted
                            boat we used one person on the centreboard to right it while another
                            crew member crawled into the capsized cockpit and came up with the boat.
                            We did also have a line amidships with a loop that allowed fairly easy
                            access.
                            > I suppose all the experience we had repeatedly capsizing overpowered
                            Aussie Skiffs in the 70's stood us in good stead The schooner with side
                            tanks was an easy proposition.
                            > Cheers
                            > Peter
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, frank raisin pfrankr@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > re side-tank bouyancy ...
                            > >
                            > > nice to come up nearly dry IF .......
                            > >
                            > > - if you can get back into the righted boat (needs good agility
                            and/or upper body strength)
                            > > - if you can reach the centreboard to right the boat
                            > > - if the boat hasn't turtled and become impossible to right (it
                            could be likened to an inverted catamaran)
                            > > - if you didn't lose contact with the boat and have it blow away
                            like a baloon
                            > >
                            > > good luck,
                            > >
                            > > frank {half a century in (and out of!) small boats cruising and
                            racing}
                            > >
                            > > ps. the side decks don't have to be enclosed as tanks for some of
                            the above disadvantages to apply
                            > >
                            > > pps. you could fit a screw hatch in the side deck to allow flooding
                            whilst sailing - merely have it on to fold and unfold the boat
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • prairiedog2332
                            Holy cow! A suit of sails for the LS from Payson are $1400! Then add the cost of spars and all the strings AND a trailer to carry it all in! Located in Austin
                            Message 14 of 25 , Oct 29, 2011
                              Holy cow!

                              A suit of sails for the LS from Payson are $1400! Then add the cost of
                              spars and all the strings AND a trailer to carry it all in!

                              Located in Austin TX I assume. Too far away for me.

                              Nels
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