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Which boat next?

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  • Rod
    I am nearly finished my Bolger Micro and and considering starting another project. I would like something with a bigger cabin but smaller cockpit. Nothing too
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 4, 2011
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      I am nearly finished my Bolger Micro and and considering starting another project. I would like something with a bigger cabin but smaller cockpit. Nothing too big, about 20 foot or so. still capable of being towed on a single axle trailer. I like the look of the Chebacco but the cabin is too small. Something capable of coastal cruising and able to get back should things turn sour. Maybe a junk rigged boat. Any ideas?
    • Harry
      ... Michalak Jewelbox ? Jim Michalak: JEWELBOX, BEACHBOAT, 19 X 6 , 800 POUNDS EMPTY Here is a boat that is supposed to be self righting to a great degree
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 4, 2011
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Rod" <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am nearly finished my Bolger Micro and and considering starting another project. I would like something with a bigger cabin but smaller cockpit. Nothing too big, about 20 foot or so. still capable of being towed on a single axle trailer. I like the look of the Chebacco but the cabin is too small. Something capable of coastal cruising and able to get back should things turn sour. Maybe a junk rigged boat. Any ideas?
        >
        Michalak Jewelbox ?
        Jim Michalak:
        JEWELBOX, BEACHBOAT, 19' X 6', 800 POUNDS EMPTY

        Here is a boat that is supposed to be self righting to a great degree without ballast! Jewelbox has the combination proven by Bolger's Birdwatcher of high sides with a thick bottom and low down crew weight to act as ballast. Karl James told me his boat has righted from having its windows totally submerged.... His Jewelbox has been all over the country, including the Mexican trip...
      • John Huft
        I d look at some of Paul Fisher s designs.  You can view them at Duckworks http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/index.htm or Paul Fisher s
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 4, 2011
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          I'd look at some of Paul Fisher's designs.  You can view them at Duckworks http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/index.htm or Paul Fisher's site http://www.selway-fisher.com/

          Here's the link to the 16-20 ft trailer sailors http://www.selway-fisher.com/PC1620.htm

          Take a look at his Galway 18.  Just might be what you're looking for.
          John Boy
           


          You can trust me, I have a degree in science...





        • Christopher C. Wetherill
          In keeping with the fundamental theme of this group, i.e. Bolger, I would look at Seabird 86. There is even a recent variant with junk rig. V/R Chris
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 4, 2011
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            In keeping with the fundamental theme of this group, i.e. Bolger, I would look at Seabird '86.  There is even a recent variant with junk rig.

            V/R
            Chris

            On 10/4/2011 7:46 PM, Rod wrote:
            I am nearly finished my Bolger Micro and and considering starting another project. I would like something with a bigger cabin but smaller cockpit. Nothing too big, about 20 foot or so. still capable of being towed on a single axle trailer. I like the look of the Chebacco but the cabin is too small. Something capable of coastal cruising and able to get back should things turn sour. Maybe a junk rigged boat. Any ideas? 
          • Connor, Patrick
            Long micro? ... Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ________________________________ From: bolger@yahoogroups.com To:
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 5, 2011
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              Long micro?
              --------------------------
              Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld


              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tue Oct 04 21:26:15 2011
              Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?

               

              In keeping with the fundamental theme of this group, i.e. Bolger, I would look at Seabird '86.  There is even a recent variant with junk rig.

              V/R
              Chris

              On 10/4/2011 7:46 PM, Rod wrote:
              I am nearly finished my Bolger Micro and and considering starting another project. I would like something with a bigger cabin but smaller cockpit. Nothing too big, about 20 foot or so. still capable of being towed on a single axle trailer. I like the look of the Chebacco but the cabin is too small. Something capable of coastal cruising and able to get back should things turn sour. Maybe a junk rigged boat. Any ideas? 

            • Rex White
              Will you share pictures ? What will you do with this beauty ? ... From: Connor, Patrick Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 5, 2011
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                Will you share pictures ? What will you do with this beauty ?

                --- On Wed, 10/5/11, Connor, Patrick <pconnor@...> wrote:

                From: Connor, Patrick <pconnor@...>
                Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 8:19 AM

                 

                Long micro?
                --------------------------
                Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld


                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tue Oct 04 21:26:15 2011
                Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?

                 

                In keeping with the fundamental theme of this group, i.e. Bolger, I would look at Seabird '86.  There is even a recent variant with junk rig.

                V/R
                Chris

                On 10/4/2011 7:46 PM, Rod wrote:

                I am nearly finished my Bolger Micro and and considering starting another project. I would like something with a bigger cabin but smaller cockpit. Nothing too big, about 20 foot or so. still capable of being towed on a single axle trailer. I like the look of the Chebacco but the cabin is too small. Something capable of coastal cruising and able to get back should things turn sour. Maybe a junk rigged boat. Any ideas? 

              • Rod Cahill
                Rex,  Only dreaming at the moment, getting some ideas.   Rod ________________________________ From: Rex White To:
                Message 7 of 22 , Oct 5, 2011
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                  Rex,  Only dreaming at the moment, getting some ideas.
                   
                  Rod

                  From: Rex White <rnwhitejr@...>
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, 5 October 2011 11:39 PM
                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?
                  Will you share pictures ? What will you do with this beauty ?

                  --- On Wed, 10/5/11, Connor, Patrick <pconnor@...> wrote:

                  From: Connor, Patrick <pconnor@...>
                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 8:19 AM

                   
                  Long micro?
                  --------------------------
                  Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
                  From: bolger@yahoogroups.com <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tue Oct 04 21:26:15 2011
                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?
                   
                  In keeping with the fundamental theme of this group, i.e. Bolger, I would look at Seabird '86.  There is even a recent variant with junk rig.

                  V/R
                  Chris

                  On 10/4/2011 7:46 PM, Rod wrote:
                  I am nearly finished my Bolger Micro and and considering starting another project. I would like something with a bigger cabin but smaller cockpit. Nothing too big, about 20 foot or so. still capable of being towed on a single axle trailer. I like the look of the Chebacco but the cabin is too small. Something capable of coastal cruising and able to get back should things turn sour. Maybe a junk rigged boat. Any ideas? 
                • Susanne@comcast.net
                  Or the CHEBACCO RD, particularly with a modest hard dodger... ... From: Christopher C. Wetherill To: bolger@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011
                  Message 8 of 22 , Oct 6, 2011
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                    Or the CHEBACCO RD, particularly with a modest hard dodger...
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:26 PM
                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?

                     

                    In keeping with the fundamental theme of this group, i.e. Bolger, I would look at Seabird '86.  There is even a recent variant with junk rig.

                    V/R
                    Chris

                    On 10/4/2011 7:46 PM, Rod wrote:

                    I am nearly finished my Bolger Micro and and considering starting another project. I would like something with a bigger cabin but smaller cockpit. Nothing too big, about 20 foot or so. still capable of being towed on a single axle trailer. I like the look of the Chebacco but the cabin is too small. Something capable of coastal cruising and able to get back should things turn sour. Maybe a junk rigged boat. Any ideas? 

                  • Bill Howard
                    Chebacco RD ???
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 6, 2011
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                      Chebacco "RD"???
                      On Oct 6, 2011, at 6:01 AM, Susanne@... wrote:

                       

                      Or the CHEBACCO RD, particularly with a modest hard dodger...
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:26 PM
                      Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?

                       

                      In keeping with the fundamental theme of this group, i.e. Bolger, I would look at Seabird '86.  There is even a recent variant with junk rig.

                      V/R
                      Chris

                      On 10/4/2011 7:46 PM, Rod wrote:

                      I am nearly finished my Bolger Micro and and considering starting another project. I would like something with a bigger cabin but smaller cockpit. Nothing too big, about 20 foot or so. still capable of being towed on a single axle trailer. I like the look of the Chebacco but the cabin is too small. Something capable of coastal cruising and able to get back should things turn sour. Maybe a junk rigged boat. Any ideas? 



                    • Susanne@comcast.net
                      Raised Deck for two feet longer cuddy, full-width headroom, reasonable cruising galley, etc. ... From: Bill Howard To: bolger@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday,
                      Message 10 of 22 , Oct 6, 2011
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                        'Raised Deck' for two feet longer cuddy, full-width headroom, reasonable cruising galley, etc.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:32 AM
                        Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?

                         

                        Chebacco "RD"???

                        On Oct 6, 2011, at 6:01 AM, Susanne@... wrote:

                         

                        Or the CHEBACCO RD, particularly with a modest hard dodger...
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:26 PM
                        Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next?

                         

                        In keeping with the fundamental theme of this group, i.e. Bolger, I would look at Seabird '86.  There is even a recent variant with junk rig.

                        V/R
                        Chris

                        On 10/4/2011 7:46 PM, Rod wrote:

                        I am nearly finished my Bolger Micro and and considering starting another project. I would like something with a bigger cabin but smaller cockpit. Nothing too big, about 20 foot or so. still capable of being towed on a single axle trailer. I like the look of the Chebacco but the cabin is too small. Something capable of coastal cruising and able to get back should things turn sour. Maybe a junk rigged boat. Any ideas? 



                      • BruceHallman
                        On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Susanne@comcast.net ... I was just refreshing my awareness of design 540RD, Chebacco Raised Deck, and it is another PB&F gem.
                        Message 11 of 22 , Oct 6, 2011
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                        • 229 KB
                        On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Susanne@...
                        <philbolger@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 'Raised Deck' for two feet longer cuddy, full-width headroom, reasonable cruising galley, etc.
                        >


                        I was just refreshing my awareness of design 540RD, Chebacco Raised
                        Deck, and it is another PB&F gem. The writeup is in MAIB Vol.22
                        No.17. Essentially a cruising upgrade to the older Chebacco design.
                        Lots of thoughtful detailing, some highlights: 1) Slot top, (with hard
                        hatches) making the process of stepping the mast more sure. 2) More
                        headroom in the cabin (raised deck), with well thought out port-lites.
                        3) Ballasted centerboard, 100lbs of steel sandwiched in plywood. 4)
                        Mainmast moved forward to improve the helm balance problems of the
                        earlier Chebacco's 5) Serious built-in
                        tankage/storage/icebox/batteries-PVpanel(s)/ & toilet appropriate for
                        a cruiser.

                        As I typically do when contemplating boats, I was doodling the shape
                        in 3D. Here is a screengrab of the incomplete doodle.

                        http://hallman.org/bolger/iso540RD.jpg

                        One question of Susanne, (if she has the time and inclination to
                        answer): I see what looks curiously like a cutout for a propeller in
                        the fin keel. Could that be?
                      • Chester Young
                        Are the oval port-lites a standard chandlery item? EstherMae has two on each side of her cabin and they could stand replacement. My wife insists on keeping
                        Message 12 of 22 , Oct 6, 2011
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                          Are the oval port-lites a standard chandlery item?  EstherMae has two on each side of her cabin and they could stand replacement.  My wife insists on keeping the ovals as it certainly lends a lot of character.  Unfortunately any production ovals I have seen do not have the same style.  The current port-lites on EstherMae are wood, (picture frames perhaps?) the screens and glass that goes in them are flat pieces that slide behind the port-line from the inside with pieces of pie shaped wood to hold then against the interior cabin side.  Very seldom do I bother to put in the glass and even at that it almost never rains inside enough to matter, and that is here in south west Florida where we get our share of down-pours.

                           

                          Bruce, as always I enjoy your rendering of any boat power, sail, or row.  Have you had one run through a 3-d plotter?

                           

                          ~Caloosarat

                           

                          From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of BruceHallman
                          Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 4:57 PM
                          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [bolger] Which boat next? [1 Attachment]

                           

                           

                          [Attachment(s) from BruceHallman included below]

                          On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Susanne@...
                          <philbolger@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 'Raised Deck' for two feet longer cuddy, full-width headroom, reasonable cruising galley, etc.
                          >

                          I was just refreshing my awareness of design 540RD, Chebacco Raised
                          Deck, and it is another PB&F gem. The writeup is in MAIB Vol.22
                          No.17. Essentially a cruising upgrade to the older Chebacco design.
                          Lots of thoughtful detailing, some highlights: 1) Slot top, (with hard
                          hatches) making the process of stepping the mast more sure. 2) More
                          headroom in the cabin (raised deck), with well thought out port-lites.
                          3) Ballasted centerboard, 100lbs of steel sandwiched in plywood. 4)
                          Mainmast moved forward to improve the helm balance problems of the
                          earlier Chebacco's 5) Serious built-in
                          tankage/storage/icebox/batteries-PVpanel(s)/ & toilet appropriate for
                          a cruiser.

                          As I typically do when contemplating boats, I was doodling the shape
                          in 3D. Here is a screengrab of the incomplete doodle.

                          http://hallman.org/bolger/iso540RD.jpg

                          One question of Susanne, (if she has the time and inclination to
                          answer): I see what looks curiously like a cutout for a propeller in
                          the fin keel. Could that be?

                        • Andrew
                          Bruce, The Chebacco RD has some other well thought out features that are not immediately apparent. The cut-out in the keel you noticed is not for a propeller,
                          Message 13 of 22 , Oct 6, 2011
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                            Bruce,

                            The Chebacco RD has some other well thought out features that are not immediately apparent.

                            The cut-out in the keel you noticed is not for a propeller, it is designed to allow the use of a balanced rudder at the end of a full keel. When you turn the balanced rudder the leading edge sticks out into the water flow creating an angled slot between the end of the keel and the rudder blade. Presumably, if this slot is too small, water won't be able to get to the high pressure side of the rudder blade and stalling will result. Phil and Sussanne's clever idea was to incorporate a 6" cut-out in the keel ahead of the rudder to alleviate this problem. Balanced rudders are normally only seen as spade rudders on fin keel boats - the RD extends the balanced rudder benefits to a full keel boat hull. Brilliant! I am using this idea on my Chebacco 25 build.

                            sites.google.com/site/warrandytewoodenboat/Warrandyte-Wooden-Boats/file-cabinet/foil-section-rudder

                            The other feature I really like in the Chebacco RD is the construction method. The boat is built around a keel/CB trunk/stem/horn spine. You literally hang the frames off the spine which is propped up vertically with a couple of sticks. The traditional ladder frame is eliminated. A pity I couldn't adapt this building method to my build.

                            Regards,

                            Andrew


                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I was just refreshing my awareness of design 540RD, Chebacco Raised
                            > Deck, and it is another PB&F gem. The writeup is in MAIB Vol.22
                            > No.17. Essentially a cruising upgrade to the older Chebacco design.
                            > Lots of thoughtful detailing, some highlights: 1) Slot top, (with hard
                            > hatches) making the process of stepping the mast more sure. 2) More
                            > headroom in the cabin (raised deck), with well thought out port-lites.
                            > 3) Ballasted centerboard, 100lbs of steel sandwiched in plywood. 4)
                            > Mainmast moved forward to improve the helm balance problems of the
                            > earlier Chebacco's 5) Serious built-in
                            > tankage/storage/icebox/batteries-PVpanel(s)/ & toilet appropriate for
                            > a cruiser.
                            >
                            > As I typically do when contemplating boats, I was doodling the shape
                            > in 3D. Here is a screengrab of the incomplete doodle.
                            >
                            > http://hallman.org/bolger/iso540RD.jpg
                            >
                            > One question of Susanne, (if she has the time and inclination to
                            > answer): I see what looks curiously like a cutout for a propeller in
                            > the fin keel. Could that be?
                            >
                          • BruceHallman
                            ... Wow.
                            Message 14 of 22 , Oct 6, 2011
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                              On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Andrew <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:

                              > Phil and Sussanne's clever idea was to incorporate a 6" cut-out in the keel ahead of the rudder to alleviate this problem.

                              Wow.
                            • m riley
                              bruce, can you just change the dimension of the inside headroom to give 6 feet and have all the others change as well? this design would look good as a full
                              Message 15 of 22 , Oct 7, 2011
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                                bruce,
                                can you just change the dimension of the inside headroom to give 6 feet and have all the others change as well?
                                this design would look good as a full size liveaboard along the lines of a thames barge.
                                mike
                              • BruceHallman
                                ... Well, you change the headroom to 6 feet, but it then would be a much different boat, with perhaps unforeseen repercussions. (For instance, with the higher
                                Message 16 of 22 , Oct 7, 2011
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                                  On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:25 AM, m riley <mkriley48@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > bruce,
                                  > can you just change the dimension of the inside headroom to give 6 feet and have all the others change as well?
                                  > this design would look good as a full size liveaboard along the lines of a thames barge.
                                  > mike
                                  >

                                  Well, you change the headroom to 6 feet, but it then would be a much
                                  different boat, with perhaps unforeseen repercussions. (For instance,
                                  with the higher cabin, could you still have vision lines looking
                                  forward from the cockpit while sailing?)

                                  If you need a 'full size liveaboard' 6ft headrom in a 20 foot overall
                                  length, that gets into the 'pushing the envelope' realm. Not that it
                                  isn't inconceivable. The PB&F designs 'Col. HG Hassler', and
                                  Superbrick both do this already. And, believe it or not, the 15'4"
                                  Micro Navigator has about two square feet of standing space tall
                                  enough that my 6ft-0in body can stand up straight enough to pull up my
                                  pants with the cabin hatch closed.

                                  Another way to achieve this standing headroom desire is to use a
                                  tent/awning above the slot top cabin. I don't see any problem with
                                  rigging a simple tarp strung on a rope stretched between the main mast
                                  and mizzen mast of this Chebacco RD to give full length walking
                                  headroom from stem to stern with this design as is.

                                  And, plenty of 'old salts' have argued persuasively that standing
                                  headroom in a boat is much over rated. In all honesty, +99% of the
                                  time while a boat is being used you are voluntarily by choice either
                                  seated or lying down. For the other 1% of the time, the cost of the
                                  necessary compromises is questionable value.
                                • etap28
                                  Hey, congrats on the RD build, I m excited! I ve been interested in this one for while. Keep up the good documentation on the website, it s much appreciated!
                                  Message 17 of 22 , Oct 7, 2011
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                                    Hey, congrats on the RD build, I'm excited! I've been interested in this one for while. Keep up the good documentation on the website, it's much appreciated!
                                    Dave


                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Bruce,
                                    >
                                    > The Chebacco RD has some other well thought out features that are not immediately apparent.
                                    >
                                    > The cut-out in the keel you noticed is not for a propeller, it is designed to allow the use of a balanced rudder at the end of a full keel. When you turn the balanced rudder the leading edge sticks out into the water flow creating an angled slot between the end of the keel and the rudder blade. Presumably, if this slot is too small, water won't be able to get to the high pressure side of the rudder blade and stalling will result. Phil and Sussanne's clever idea was to incorporate a 6" cut-out in the keel ahead of the rudder to alleviate this problem. Balanced rudders are normally only seen as spade rudders on fin keel boats - the RD extends the balanced rudder benefits to a full keel boat hull. Brilliant! I am using this idea on my Chebacco 25 build.
                                    >
                                    > sites.google.com/site/warrandytewoodenboat/Warrandyte-Wooden-Boats/file-cabinet/foil-section-rudder
                                    >
                                    > The other feature I really like in the Chebacco RD is the construction method. The boat is built around a keel/CB trunk/stem/horn spine. You literally hang the frames off the spine which is propped up vertically with a couple of sticks. The traditional ladder frame is eliminated. A pity I couldn't adapt this building method to my build.
                                    >
                                    > Regards,
                                    >
                                    > Andrew
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I was just refreshing my awareness of design 540RD, Chebacco Raised
                                    > > Deck, and it is another PB&F gem. The writeup is in MAIB Vol.22
                                    > > No.17. Essentially a cruising upgrade to the older Chebacco design.
                                    > > Lots of thoughtful detailing, some highlights: 1) Slot top, (with hard
                                    > > hatches) making the process of stepping the mast more sure. 2) More
                                    > > headroom in the cabin (raised deck), with well thought out port-lites.
                                    > > 3) Ballasted centerboard, 100lbs of steel sandwiched in plywood. 4)
                                    > > Mainmast moved forward to improve the helm balance problems of the
                                    > > earlier Chebacco's 5) Serious built-in
                                    > > tankage/storage/icebox/batteries-PVpanel(s)/ & toilet appropriate for
                                    > > a cruiser.
                                    > >
                                    > > As I typically do when contemplating boats, I was doodling the shape
                                    > > in 3D. Here is a screengrab of the incomplete doodle.
                                    > >
                                    > > http://hallman.org/bolger/iso540RD.jpg
                                    > >
                                    > > One question of Susanne, (if she has the time and inclination to
                                    > > answer): I see what looks curiously like a cutout for a propeller in
                                    > > the fin keel. Could that be?
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Harry James
                                    I do like to stand in the galley, the rest doesn t matter. For some reason headroom is a really big deal to a lot of people. I typically spend several weeks at
                                    Message 18 of 22 , Oct 7, 2011
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                                      I do like to stand in the galley, the rest doesn't matter. For some
                                      reason headroom is a really big deal to a lot of people. I typically
                                      spend several weeks at a time on my Triton in the summer and the only
                                      time I am standing up and walking around is going forward on deck or
                                      after rowing ashore. The time spent moving around in the boat with my
                                      head bent is so small that it is statistically insignificant. If the
                                      boat is rigged so you can sit comfortably at the stove galley area and
                                      reach every thing then the standing head room in the galley becomes less
                                      important.

                                      HJ

                                      On 10/7/2011 6:43 AM, BruceHallman wrote:
                                      > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:25 AM, m riley<mkriley48@...> wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> bruce,
                                      >> can you just change the dimension of the inside headroom to give 6 feet and have all the others change as well?
                                      >> this design would look good as a full size liveaboard along the lines of a thames barge.
                                      >> mike
                                      >>
                                      > Well, you change the headroom to 6 feet, but it then would be a much
                                      > different boat, with perhaps unforeseen repercussions. (For instance,
                                      > with the higher cabin, could you still have vision lines looking
                                      > forward from the cockpit while sailing?)
                                      >
                                      > If you need a 'full size liveaboard' 6ft headrom in a 20 foot overall
                                      > length, that gets into the 'pushing the envelope' realm. Not that it
                                      > isn't inconceivable. The PB&F designs 'Col. HG Hassler', and
                                      > Superbrick both do this already. And, believe it or not, the 15'4"
                                      > Micro Navigator has about two square feet of standing space tall
                                      > enough that my 6ft-0in body can stand up straight enough to pull up my
                                      > pants with the cabin hatch closed.
                                      >
                                      > Another way to achieve this standing headroom desire is to use a
                                      > tent/awning above the slot top cabin. I don't see any problem with
                                      > rigging a simple tarp strung on a rope stretched between the main mast
                                      > and mizzen mast of this Chebacco RD to give full length walking
                                      > headroom from stem to stern with this design as is.
                                      >
                                      > And, plenty of 'old salts' have argued persuasively that standing
                                      > headroom in a boat is much over rated. In all honesty, +99% of the
                                      > time while a boat is being used you are voluntarily by choice either
                                      > seated or lying down. For the other 1% of the time, the cost of the
                                      > necessary compromises is questionable value.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Bolger rules!!!
                                      > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                                      > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                      > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                      > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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                                    • BruceHallman
                                      ... Agreed and well said. Though the way PB&F have ChebaccoRD designed, the galley is located outside in the cockpit. The boat is only a 20 ft. They do have
                                      Message 19 of 22 , Oct 7, 2011
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                                        On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I do like to stand in the galley, the rest doesn't matter....if
                                        > boat is rigged so you can sit comfortably at the stove galley area

                                        Agreed and well said. Though the way PB&F have ChebaccoRD designed,
                                        the galley is located outside in the cockpit. The boat is only a 20
                                        ft. They do have a built-in "don't look down" head inside the cuddy
                                        (up against the board trunk), but it achieves headroom through the
                                        cuddy hatch.
                                      • John Kohnen
                                        In in smallish boat it makes sense to do ones cooking in the cockpit. I think cooking inside the cabin is over rated. I d rather cook in the cockpit and keep
                                        Message 20 of 22 , Oct 8, 2011
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                                          In in smallish boat it makes sense to do ones cooking in the cockpit. I
                                          think cooking inside the cabin is over rated. I'd rather cook in the
                                          cockpit and keep all the steam and heat out of the cabin anyway. Jeff
                                          Stobbe built an Atkin Bamaling 21 1/2 foot motor cruiser and extended the
                                          hardtop aft over the cockpit. He built an actual galley in the forward
                                          part of the cockpit. A very sensible setup:

                                          http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Cruisers/Bamaling.html

                                          http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2003/Loon-3.jpg

                                          On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 11:16:45 -0700, Harry J wrote:

                                          > I do like to stand in the galley, the rest doesn't matter. For some
                                          > reason headroom is a really big deal to a lot of people. I typically
                                          > spend several weeks at a time on my Triton in the summer and the only
                                          > time I am standing up and walking around is going forward on deck or
                                          > after rowing ashore. The time spent moving around in the boat with my
                                          > head bent is so small that it is statistically insignificant....


                                          --
                                          John (jkohnen@...)
                                          It's hard to be religious when certain people are never
                                          incinerated by bolts of lightning. (Bill Watterson)
                                        • John Kohnen
                                          Oops! wrong photo of Jeff Stobbe s Bamaling, Loon. Here s the one showing the galley: http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2003/Loon-1.jpg ... -- John
                                          Message 21 of 22 , Oct 8, 2011
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                                            Oops! wrong photo of Jeff Stobbe's Bamaling, Loon. Here's the one showing
                                            the galley:

                                            http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2003/Loon-1.jpg

                                            On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:58:04 -0700, I wrote:

                                            > In in smallish boat it makes sense to do ones cooking in the cockpit. I
                                            > think cooking inside the cabin is over rated. I'd rather cook in the
                                            > cockpit and keep all the steam and heat out of the cabin anyway. Jeff
                                            > Stobbe built an Atkin Bamaling 21 1/2 foot motor cruiser and extended the
                                            > hardtop aft over the cockpit. He built an actual galley in the forward
                                            > part of the cockpit. A very sensible setup:
                                            >
                                            > http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Cruisers/Bamaling.html
                                            >
                                            > http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2003/Loon-3.jpg

                                            --
                                            John (jkohnen@...)
                                            "Necessity is the mother of invention" is a silly proverb.
                                            "Necessity is the mother of futile dodges" is much nearer the
                                            truth. (Alfred North Whitehead)
                                          • m riley
                                            bruce, if you read my first line I want to expand all dimensions in proportion stopping when the headroom reached 6 feet, nowhere did I say that I wanted to
                                            Message 22 of 22 , Oct 8, 2011
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                                              bruce,

                                              if you read my first line I want to expand all dimensions in proportion stopping when the headroom reached 6 feet,
                                              nowhere did I say that I wanted to keep the 20' loa.
                                              As to the headroom requirement,having lived in a sailboat 4" shy of full headroom for 6 years fulltime caused back problems.
                                              "headroom is deemed unnecessary by  those that have it"
                                              mike






                                              On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:25 AM, m riley <mkriley48@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > bruce,
                                              > can you just change the dimension of the inside headroom to give 6 feet and have all the others change as well?
                                              > this design would look good as a full size liveaboard along the lines of a thames barge.
                                              > mike
                                              >

                                              Well, you change the headroom to 6 feet, but it then would be a much
                                              different boat, with perhaps unforeseen repercussions. (For instance,
                                              with the higher cabin, could you still have vision lines looking
                                              forward from the cockpit while sailing?)

                                              If you need a 'full size liveaboard' 6ft headrom in a 20 foot overall
                                              length, that gets into the 'pushing the envelope' realm. Not that it
                                              isn't inconceivable. The PB&F designs 'Col. HG Hassler', and
                                              Superbrick both do this already. And, believe it or not, the 15'4"
                                              Micro Navigator has about two square feet of standing space tall
                                              enough that my 6ft-0in body can stand up straight enough to pull up my
                                              pants with the cabin hatch closed.

                                              Another way to achieve this standing headroom desire is to use a
                                              tent/awning above the slot top cabin. I don't see any problem with
                                              rigging a simple tarp strung on a rope stretched between the main mast
                                              and mizzen mast of this Chebacco RD to give full length walking
                                              headroom from stem to stern with this design as is.

                                              And, plenty of 'old salts' have argued persuasively that standing
                                              headroom in a boat is much over rated. In all honesty, +99% of the
                                              time while a boat is being used you are voluntarily by choice either
                                              seated or lying down. For the other 1% of the time, the cost of the
                                              necessary compromises is questionable value.
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