Re: [bolger] Re: Epoxy over polyester?
- I've seen this method up close.That's the Vaitses Method, first invented and proven by the boatbuilder of the same name. BTW, copper ringnailing secured the polyester to the wooden hull in every successful boat rebuild Vaitses described.In this day and age carvel planking is a death knell for any boat owner who ain't a millionaire or his own boatwright. The cost of maintenance, repair, INSURANCE, good wood, copper fasteners et al means carvel's socioeconomic time is past and done.The Vaitses Method, though crude, is massively solid and successful. While the wooden hull is strong they become double-hulled tanks that sit even higher in the water. Then a boat's whole wooden interior could rot away and you're none the worse for it.El sep 3, 2011, a las 11:58 am, Douglas Pollard escribió:
As to epoxy over polyester I suspect it is not a good Idea. I don't know from experience but it has been the opinion of many boat builders that polyester has an oily or waxy surface that epoxy won't stick too well. I was told that if you scrub polyester with a strong solvent that it works better.
From 1970 to about 1992 Hulls Unlimited In Deltaville Va., besides building fine glass boats also covered old wooden boats with glass. They did some early racing yawls and a few power boats and it was very successful. They took out the caulking and sanded all the paint off into the wood surface. They never put less than a quarter of an inch of glass on any of the boats and sometimes one half inch, and insisted that was minamal. Of course they were only working with boats over 30ft. There idea was the glass was strong enough that even though the boat was in a weakened condition due to old age and rot the glass would strengthen her. The glass made the boat heavier but it increased the boats size and so it floated higher in the water. There claimed she was no longer a wooden boat with glass on it, but was instead a glass boat with a wooden interior.
I guess this process was a kind of death-knell of those old boats as the wooden hulls were no longer maintained and probably slowly rotted under the glass over time to the point of being unrepairable. Still it likely extended their lives thirty years or more. Many of the boats were built in the 1920's and 30's. Most had at some point been sold to people who had not the money to have them professionally maintained. Most of those boats, Alden, Crocker and Herrshoff had been built for Railroad magnets and other wealthy families and were very expensive with the very best in materials.
Recently the Kennedy family sailboat was rebuilt at a boatyard in Deltaville. She having been owned and maintained by such a wealthy family had never been subjected to glassing to cover up a life of poor maintenance. I wonder if this generation of Kennedys will take care of her? I hope so as she is a beautiful yacht. Doug
On 09/03/2011 10:08 AM, mkriley48 wrote:
I was refering to boats the were sheathed over wood like HUCKINS
--- In email@example.com, Pierce Nichols <rocketgeek@...> wrote:
> My family has a 1950s era Dyer Glamour Girl launch... the hull is still in
> great shape. It needs an engine rebuild or perhaps just a new engine, so it
> hasn't been on the water in a few years.
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:28 PM, mkriley48 <mkriley48@...> wrote:
> > there are lots of boats that are going on 50 years old with polyester
> > coverings from new that are still going strong.
> > problem arise with bad application and substandard resin.
> > I have built several large deck and cabin assemblies and have done
> > testing on cutouts trying to remove the polyester with a hammer and chisel.
> > It always split the wood before it delaminated.
> > BTW polyester resists high temps better than epoxy. Epoxy will soften and
> > creep at the temps obtained under dark colors in florida, polyester resin
> > does not creep
> > lots of resins today are diluted with too much styrene.
> > mike
> > ------------------------------------
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- In his book he did restore sailing yachts with it - his stories include one being indestructable until it got cut in half by a steamer off shore.El sep 17, 2011, a las 5:06 pm, John Kohnen escribió:Vaitses's method was intended to get some more years of working out of
fishing boats and other workboats. I don't think I ever read of him
touting it for yachts.
A fellow I knew got ahold of a nice-looking British built double-ended
sailboat that had been cold-molded over. The work had been done in Port
Townsend, wooden boat capital of the west. That doesn't mean that
_everyone_ in Port Townsend knows what they're doing. <g> One day he cut
or drilled into the hull to mount something, and after he got through the
cold-molded outer shell he ran into -- compost! :o( From the outside the
boat looked great, from the inside it looked OK, in between was a layer of
very rotten wood, sandwiched between the cold-molded shell and a thin
layer of good wood on the inside of the planks. <sigh> He ground off the
cold-molded shell and discovered that just about every plank needed to be
replaced. He never got very far into the project before he lost heart, and
the boat was eventually broken up by the boatyard. If he'd never cut
through the outer shell maybe he'd have gone voyaging, and maybe the boat
would have brought him back. <shrug> After he knew that there wasn't much
of anything holding that outer shell to the rest of the boat he didn't
dare take her to sea.
The example many people give of a boat that was cold-molded over
successfully is a British cutter that spends most of its time around South
Georgia -- where it's _cold_ and the rot spores are probably in
hibernation. <g> I'd be very suspicious of any traditionally built wooden
boat that had been covered with glass, using polyester or epoxy, or had
been shelled with cold-molding.
On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:27:44 -0700, dave wrote:
The vaitses method always makes me cringe when I hear about it. I guess
in the case of a boat with a really terminal hull, great interior and
great rig.... it might,just might, pay to do that, but if you're going
to build a new hull over the old one, why not cold mold? The part
nobody's talking about is fairing the new polyester hull. That's a huge
labor investment, unless you just don't care and decide to paint the raw
polyester, in which case you've built yourself a totally unsaleable
hulk. Either way, you've built yourself a totally unsaleable boat, so
you better love it for the 15 or so years it'll last before that
well-sheathed rot finishes its business; but if you fair it, at least
it'll look like a boat.
A fool and his money are soon elected. (Will Rogers)
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