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[bolger] Topaz update.

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  • sailormon@torchlake.com
    For those who have shown an interest in this vessel I would reply to more specific questions. Let it be said that like the rest of you builders, this project
    Message 1 of 28 , Nov 3, 1999
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      For those who have shown an interest in this vessel I would reply to
      more specific questions. Let it be said that like the rest of you
      builders, this project is not without it's glitches. The side panels
      as designed run about four inches short etc. etc. There really is a
      lot of creative work and hard labor but it is paying off. The cabin is
      glassed on as well as the foreward and aft cockpit. The foreward
      cockpit is a wonderful space to be used. I am changing internal design
      and inlarging the galley at the expense of the head. The head is
      downsized with folding walls that come down to double as counter space
      for the galley. I live on a boat during the winter and really
      understand that keeping my wife happy goes a long way to keeping her
      aboard. In fact without her help on the boat I would not be so far
      along. We work a few long days fitted in between other jobs.
      The cost is much higher than I anticipated. The cost of wood is the
      problem. I am about to go over to the city to buy mahagany for
      trimming and the sheer etc. She is a big vessel and the amount is
      considerable. More money.
      In summary, I can only say she really is turning out to be a really
      classy boat. Those who have seen her are to a person, excited about
      the design. Who said Bolger only designs boxes? Brad
    • Sam Glasscock
      Despite the miserable spring weather on the mid-Atlantic coast, I have been able to get in a number of cruises on my Bolger Topaz, Spat. Spat is powered by
      Message 2 of 28 , May 28, 2003
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        Despite the miserable spring weather on the
        mid-Atlantic coast, I have been able to get in a
        number of cruises on my Bolger Topaz, Spat. Spat is
        powered by the motor Bolger called for, the 50hp
        four-stroke Yamaha with the "high-thrust" lower unit.
        I was getting a top speed of around 18 kts (actually,
        20 statute mph based on the Ymaha speedomter which
        came with the motor) with this unit at 6100 rpm (just
        above the recomended top rpm) with the prop that came
        with the boat, 14" x 18". Bolger recommended I go up
        to 14 x 20, but I was reluctant to do so because,
        let's face it, I'm cheap. Luckily, I managed to find
        the only hard piece of bottom for miles around with my
        prop, and it had to be remanufactured. It is now 14 X
        20. This is definately the right size prop. I now
        top out at 5600 rpm at 22 kts, measured by gps. This
        is a remarkable speed, I think, from 50 hp on a
        thirty-one foot hull. The boat also manuvers better
        with the bigger prop. For those interested in the
        Topaz, I would recommend not going above the 50hp
        motor. Gas milage is excelent, and it gives an easy
        cruise in the 12-15 knt. range. Sam


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      • jakeman19652002
        Topas seemlike a nice boaat. What kind of sea conditions can she handle Jake.
        Message 3 of 28 , May 28, 2003
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          Topas seemlike a nice boaat. What kind of sea conditions can she
          handle Jake.

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
          wrote:
          > Despite the miserable spring weather on the
          > mid-Atlantic coast, I have been able to get in a
          > number of cruises on my Bolger Topaz, Spat. Spat is
          > powered by the motor Bolger called for, the 50hp
          > four-stroke Yamaha with the "high-thrust" lower unit.
          > I was getting a top speed of around 18 kts (actually,
          > 20 statute mph based on the Ymaha speedomter which
          > came with the motor) with this unit at 6100 rpm (just
          > above the recomended top rpm) with the prop that came
          > with the boat, 14" x 18". Bolger recommended I go up
          > to 14 x 20, but I was reluctant to do so because,
          > let's face it, I'm cheap. Luckily, I managed to find
          > the only hard piece of bottom for miles around with my
          > prop, and it had to be remanufactured. It is now 14 X
          > 20. This is definately the right size prop. I now
          > top out at 5600 rpm at 22 kts, measured by gps. This
          > is a remarkable speed, I think, from 50 hp on a
          > thirty-one foot hull. The boat also manuvers better
          > with the bigger prop. For those interested in the
          > Topaz, I would recommend not going above the 50hp
          > motor. Gas milage is excelent, and it gives an easy
          > cruise in the 12-15 knt. range. Sam
          >
          >
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        • Sam Glasscock
          Topaz was designed for Long Island Sound. More than half the bottom is flat, so that running in to a big chop she will tend to pound. I have found her well
          Message 4 of 28 , May 28, 2003
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            Topaz was designed for Long Island Sound. More than
            half the bottom is flat, so that running in to a big
            chop she will tend to pound. I have found her well
            suited to Delaware Bay conditions. She is very
            stable, and her variable-deadrise forward sections
            make her quiet in a moderate chop.
            --- jakeman19652002 <jakeman19652002@...> wrote:
            > Topas seemlike a nice boaat. What kind of sea
            > conditions can she
            > handle Jake.
            >

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          • Peter Lenihan
            Great report Sam and thanks for the engine endorsement! Now,all you have to do is post some BIG COLOR PICTURES of your TOPAZ.You know the type we like,inside
            Message 5 of 28 , May 28, 2003
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              Great report Sam and thanks for the engine endorsement! Now,all you
              have to do is post some BIG COLOR PICTURES of your TOPAZ.You know the
              type we like,inside shots,details,with a crowd on board,at anchor,at
              the dock etc......
              Sincerely,
              Peter Lenihan,Windermere builder............
            • Sam Glasscock
              Peter, I knew somebody was going to ask me that. I think I can borrow a digital camera, but I don t know how to post the photos (or digital pixal arrays, or
              Message 6 of 28 , May 28, 2003
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                Peter, I knew somebody was going to ask me that. I
                think I can borrow a digital camera, but I don't know
                how to post the photos (or digital pixal arrays, or
                whatever you call a computer picture). Can somebody
                explain it to me via e-mail? I mean 'splain it
                r-e-a-l s-l-o-w, like you would to, say, a drunk who
                didn't speak english well, or like a doctor would to a
                fellow lifeboat passenger who knows nothing about
                medicine but who is going to have to take out the
                doctor's appendix with a steak knife? I promise to
                try to get some pictures up, if somebody takes pity on
                me and walks me through it. Sam
                --- Peter Lenihan <ellengaest@...> wrote:
                > Great report Sam and thanks for the engine
                > endorsement! Now,all you
                > have to do is post some BIG COLOR PICTURES of your
                > TOPAZ.You know the
                > type we like,inside shots,details,with a crowd on
                > board,at anchor,at
                > the dock etc......
                >
                > Sincerely,
                > Peter Lenihan,Windermere builder............
                >
                >


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              • Bruce Hector
                Pictures be danged, what we NEED to hear is that you re bringing her up the Hudson River to the Erie Canal, following it to Oswego, New York, crossing Lake
                Message 7 of 28 , May 28, 2003
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                  Pictures be danged, what we NEED to hear is that you're bringing her
                  up the Hudson River to the Erie Canal, following it to Oswego, New
                  York, crossing Lake Ontario (wait for a good day!) to Kingston so
                  that your Topaz will be at the September Kingston Messabout.

                  THAT's what we NEED to hear. Can you make it? The Bolger World WANTS
                  to know!

                  Bruce Hector
                  http://www.brucesboats.com
                  For full details, Including Peter Lenihan's Bras'Dor (Francais for
                  Golden Arm) "Chug-A-Lug" (just joking) Contest of the Kingston
                  Messabout. Be there or miss the greatest Messabout ever!
                • Peter Lenihan
                  ... Sam, Any old camera will do, it just takes a bit longer to see the finished product. Then you might get someone to scan the glossy 4X6 photos for you,like
                  Message 8 of 28 , May 28, 2003
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Peter, I knew somebody was going to ask me that. I
                    > think I can borrow a digital camera,

                    Sam,
                    Any old camera will do, it just takes a bit longer to see the
                    finished product. Then you might get someone to scan the glossy 4X6
                    photos for you,like I do since I am such a ten thumbed idiot.
                    However, I must warn you that once your photos are scanned to a
                    diskette, it is really really easy to post photos to the Bolger group
                    (s) and you will no longer have any excuses :-).
                    If I could just figure out the chat function(or find me a 12 year
                    old as Bruce suggests) then I would be firing on all two pistons and
                    consider myself "experienced" ...ha!

                    Sincerely,
                    Peter Lenihan,eager to see some nice photos,eventually,along the
                    shores of the St.Lawrence.......
                  • Bruce Hector
                    I can t explain it, and Peter has no scanner, so he s out. BUT, if you take some pics, and develop them at you favorite cheap photo outlet (ask for gloss
                    Message 9 of 28 , May 28, 2003
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                      I can't explain it, and Peter has no scanner, so he's out. BUT, if
                      you take some pics, and develop them at you favorite cheap photo
                      outlet (ask for gloss withut border, if you get a choice) AND snail
                      mail them to me , I'll scan them and post them.

                      Cause I'm as curious as Peter.

                      Bruce Hector
                      Hopeing, dreaming, and wishing that there'll be a Topaz at his
                      Messabout.
                    • Peter Lenihan
                      ... her ... WANTS ... See what happens when you don t post photos Sam? Yup,the stakes have just been raised and it looks like the only way to save face now is
                      Message 10 of 28 , May 28, 2003
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...>
                        wrote:
                        > Pictures be danged, what we NEED to hear is that you're bringing
                        her
                        > up the Hudson River to the Erie Canal, following it to Oswego, New
                        > York, crossing Lake Ontario (wait for a good day!) to Kingston so
                        > that your Topaz will be at the September Kingston Messabout.
                        >
                        > THAT's what we NEED to hear. Can you make it? The Bolger World
                        WANTS
                        > to know!
                        >
                        > Bruce Hector
                        > http://www.brucesboats.com
                        > For full details, Including Peter Lenihan's Bras'Dor (Francais for
                        > Golden Arm) "Chug-A-Lug" (just joking) Contest of the Kingston
                        > Messabout. Be there or miss the greatest Messabout ever!


                        See what happens when you don't post photos Sam? Yup,the stakes have
                        just been raised and it looks like the only way to save face now is
                        to come on up to Kingston.But to show that neither Bruce nor I wish
                        to put too much pressure on you,you will have a choice! Either take
                        the romantic route suggested by Bruce or,if time is tight,haul her up
                        on your trailer and spend several hours enjoying your fair country's
                        landscape as you travel north to Pinko Land,where the beer is
                        good,the beer is cold,the beer is cheap,the beer comes in many shapes
                        and sizes....oh the stories I could tell!!

                        Peter Lenihan,worried that the Kingston International Chug-a-Lug may
                        turn into a Lug-a-Chuck or Lug-a-Jeff and now perhaps a Lug-a-Sam....
                      • stephensonhw@aol.com
                        Find a photo lab that will develop the film and scan it onto a Kodak Picture CD. It should only cost a couple of dollars extra. You can even ask them not to
                        Message 11 of 28 , May 28, 2003
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                          Find a photo lab that will develop the film and scan it onto a Kodak Picture CD. It should only cost a couple of dollars extra. You can even ask them not to give you prints and you will save money. Once you see the pictures full-screen on your computer, you won't bother with crummy machine-made prints again.

                          Howard

                          >Any old camera will do, it just takes a bit longer to see the
                          >finished product. Then you might get someone to scan the >glossy 4X6
                          >photos for you,like I do since I am such a ten thumbed idiot.
                        • Sam Glasscock
                          Wow fellows! Could Spat go international? Across Delaware Bay, then through the Jersey marshes, past quaint colonial towns with their open-air lawnmower
                          Message 12 of 28 , May 29, 2003
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                            Wow fellows! Could Spat go international? Across
                            Delaware Bay, then through the Jersey marshes, past
                            quaint colonial towns with their open-air lawnmower
                            markets. Through the Meadowlands brilliant with the
                            light of a dozen landfill fires. Up the Hudson, the
                            Erie, and across the lake. Out with the q flag, clear
                            customs, then hoist the Maple Leaf and off to
                            Kingston. I have wanted to sail away to Kingston ever
                            since I was a kid and heard Harry Belafonte sing about
                            "Kingston Town." Palm trees, rum punch, native girls,
                            innocent yet knowing. Cracked conch and crawfish on
                            Spat in the soft tropic twilight. Heaven! Amd your
                            local customs, like this thing you call "beer." I
                            know of it, by reputation. Sort of like soda pop, I
                            am told, but with a pleasantly narcotic effect. Said
                            to make men more virile and women more attractive.
                            Sounds wonderful.
                            I would love to come to the messabout. I
                            suspect, as things look, that it ain't going to
                            happen, but I'm not going to say no, 'cause its too
                            much fun to dream about. I will take you up on the
                            picture posting, as soon as I get some good shots.
                            Thanks. Sam
                            --- Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@...> wrote:
                            > Pictures be danged, what we NEED to hear is that
                            > you're bringing her
                            > up the Hudson River to the Erie Canal, following it
                            > to Oswego, New
                            > York, crossing Lake Ontario (wait for a good day!)
                            > to Kingston so
                            > that your Topaz will be at the September Kingston
                            > Messabout.
                            >
                            > THAT's what we NEED to hear. Can you make it? The
                            > Bolger World WANTS
                            > to know!
                            >
                            > Bruce Hector
                            > http://www.brucesboats.com
                            > For full details, Including Peter Lenihan's Bras'Dor
                            > (Francais for
                            > Golden Arm) "Chug-A-Lug" (just joking) Contest of
                            > the Kingston
                            > Messabout. Be there or miss the greatest Messabout
                            > ever!
                            >
                            >


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                          • Sam Glasscock
                            ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com
                            Message 13 of 28 , May 29, 2003
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                              --- Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
                              > Wow fellows! Could Spat go international? Across
                              > Delaware Bay, then through the Jersey marshes, past
                              > quaint colonial towns with their open-air lawnmower
                              > markets. Through the Meadowlands brilliant with the
                              > light of a dozen landfill fires. Up the Hudson, the
                              > Erie, and across the lake. Out with the q flag,
                              > clear
                              > customs, then hoist the Maple Leaf and off to
                              > Kingston. I have wanted to sail away to Kingston
                              > ever
                              > since I was a kid and heard Harry Belafonte sing
                              > about
                              > "Kingston Town." Palm trees, rum punch, native
                              > girls,
                              > innocent yet knowing. Cracked conch and crawfish on
                              > Spat in the soft tropic twilight. Heaven! Amd your
                              > local customs, like this thing you call "beer." I
                              > know of it, by reputation. Sort of like soda pop, I
                              > am told, but with a pleasantly narcotic effect.
                              > Said
                              > to make men more virile and women more attractive.
                              > Sounds wonderful.
                              > I would love to come to the messabout. I
                              > suspect, as things look, that it ain't going to
                              > happen, but I'm not going to say no, 'cause its too
                              > much fun to dream about. I will take you up on the
                              > picture posting, as soon as I get some good shots.
                              > Thanks. Sam
                              > --- Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@...> wrote:
                              > > Pictures be danged, what we NEED to hear is that
                              > > you're bringing her
                              > > up the Hudson River to the Erie Canal, following
                              > it
                              > > to Oswego, New
                              > > York, crossing Lake Ontario (wait for a good day!)
                              > > to Kingston so
                              > > that your Topaz will be at the September Kingston
                              > > Messabout.
                              > >
                              > > THAT's what we NEED to hear. Can you make it? The
                              > > Bolger World WANTS
                              > > to know!
                              > >
                              > > Bruce Hector
                              > > http://www.brucesboats.com
                              > > For full details, Including Peter Lenihan's
                              > Bras'Dor
                              > > (Francais for
                              > > Golden Arm) "Chug-A-Lug" (just joking) Contest of
                              > > the Kingston
                              > > Messabout. Be there or miss the greatest Messabout
                              > > ever!
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________
                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to
                              > Outlook(TM).
                              > http://calendar.yahoo.com
                              >


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                            • Sam Glasscock
                              I know Bolger has designed the Fishcat, and the Bantam tri. Does anyone know if he has any power multihull cruisers? Any built? Thanks. Sam
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 7, 2003
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                                I know Bolger has designed the Fishcat, and the Bantam
                                tri. Does anyone know if he has any power multihull
                                cruisers? Any built? Thanks. Sam

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                              • Sam Glasscock
                                As those of you who have seen the plans for Topaz (and Sitka Explorer, Tahiti, etc) are aware, the boat has a 1/4 skin over a false nose section, application
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 19, 2003
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                                  As those of you who have seen the plans for Topaz (and
                                  Sitka Explorer, Tahiti, etc) are aware, the boat has a
                                  1/4 skin over a false 'nose' section, application of
                                  which turns the boat from a sharpie into a deadrise
                                  hull, forward. I managed to drop the boat off the
                                  trailer (don't ask) last time I put her in, puncturing
                                  the skin into the otherwise sealed nose.
                                  Interestingly, although there is a lot of bouyancy in
                                  the nose, almost none of it is below the waterline,
                                  even with the nose puncuted, so I did not even notice
                                  the hole until I pulled her out--it had little or no
                                  effect on trim or performance.
                                  The hole is an easy patch, once the area has
                                  dried thouroughly, but because of the shape of the
                                  nose (not mine, Topazes)I will never be able to ensure
                                  that I have removed the last drop of water from this
                                  section. I am concerned about sealing this area back
                                  up with even a small amount of water in it, becasue of
                                  the posibility of rot. The nose (on my boat, at
                                  least) is not foam filled, just an empty chamber
                                  completely seatled off with epoxy-coated plywood. Any
                                  thoughts on what I could put up there prior to
                                  re-sealing to prevent rot? I could use glycol, I
                                  guess, but I'd rather not have liquid up there. Any
                                  dry chemicals that might work? Or is Peter's
                                  groundhog available for close-quarters sponge duty?
                                  Sam


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                                • Peter Lenihan
                                  Hi Sam, Interesting problem and sorry to hear about your mishap. Windermere also uses a similar device(fillet piece) to soften the harshness of a sharpie
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jun 20, 2003
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                                    Hi Sam,
                                    Interesting problem and sorry to hear about your mishap.
                                    Windermere also uses a similar device(fillet piece) to soften the
                                    harshness of a sharpie bottom.
                                    You say yours is not foam filled.Is this per plans or your own
                                    doing? On Windermere,they call for the use of a combination of
                                    expanding foam and foam peanuts to completely fill this enclosed
                                    cavity.
                                    How would I proceed if this was my boat? Incline the trailer
                                    such that any water which may be "stored" in the cavity gathers at
                                    one definite location.Take a drill and pierce a hole in the lowest
                                    part of this "location".Don't be shy about your hole size either.A
                                    one inch hole is easy enough to plug and seal up afterward........in
                                    fact,it should be a "piece of cake" for a builder :-) and gives you
                                    the chance to poke your finger in there to feel when it is dry.
                                    Once the area has been left to air itself out( a few days if it
                                    is really dry in your area),then a bit of epoxy well thickened and a
                                    small piece of wood ought to do it for plugging the hole.This big
                                    ugly blob can be easily sanded back into profile once the epoxy is
                                    cured.
                                    Perhaps,you may also wish to consider filling this cavity with
                                    foam. This can be accomplished through the installation of a couple
                                    of"inspection ports" through the hull bottom(underneath your forward
                                    cockpit) and installed near the centerline,each side of
                                    the "keel".Go slowly with the expanding foam. This is pretty much
                                    what is called for regarding Windermeres fillet piece cavity.
                                    Were the inside surfaces of your fillet pieces sealed with
                                    epoxy before installing them? Again, nice inspection ports might
                                    allow you to get in there with a brush-on-a-stick to seal those
                                    surfaces.
                                    Hope this makes sense and helps inspire you towards a happy
                                    solution. Also, do not forget to post pictures of your TOPAZ....we
                                    will not relent until you do so :-D

                                    Oh,and the groundhog? Forget that evil little bastard,he
                                    deserves much worse then being closed up inside your boat!


                                    Sincerely,
                                    Peter Lenihan, with less then an hour to go before the end of the
                                    grave yard shift,it is off to face the beast( it is sunny today!)
                                    and address some final details before tomorrows flipping fun,from
                                    along the shores of the St.Lawrence............
                                  • Bill Kreamer
                                    Punch another, or several other holes at the extremes of the cavity, then aim a hair dryer onto it for 4-5 hours? ... From: Sam Glasscock
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jun 20, 2003
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                                      Punch another, or several other holes at the extremes of the cavity,
                                      then aim a hair dryer onto it for 4-5 hours?

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Sam Glasscock [mailto:glasscocklanding@...]
                                      Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 6:17 PM
                                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [bolger] Rot prophylaxis

                                      As those of you who have seen the plans for Topaz (and
                                      Sitka Explorer, Tahiti, etc) are aware, the boat has a
                                      1/4 skin over a false 'nose' section, application of
                                      which turns the boat from a sharpie into a deadrise
                                      hull, forward. I managed to drop the boat off the
                                      trailer (don't ask) last time I put her in, puncturing
                                      the skin into the otherwise sealed nose.
                                      Interestingly, although there is a lot of bouyancy in
                                      the nose, almost none of it is below the waterline,
                                      even with the nose puncuted, so I did not even notice
                                      the hole until I pulled her out--it had little or no
                                      effect on trim or performance.
                                      The hole is an easy patch, once the area has
                                      dried thouroughly, but because of the shape of the
                                      nose (not mine, Topazes)I will never be able to ensure
                                      that I have removed the last drop of water from this
                                      section. I am concerned about sealing this area back
                                      up with even a small amount of water in it, becasue of
                                      the posibility of rot. The nose (on my boat, at
                                      least) is not foam filled, just an empty chamber
                                      completely seatled off with epoxy-coated plywood. Any
                                      thoughts on what I could put up there prior to
                                      re-sealing to prevent rot? I could use glycol, I
                                      guess, but I'd rather not have liquid up there. Any
                                      dry chemicals that might work? Or is Peter's
                                      groundhog available for close-quarters sponge duty?
                                      Sam


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                                    • Chuck Leinweber
                                      Personally, I like the idea of inspection ports between the cavity in question and the forward cockpit. You can open them periodically to dry out that
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 20, 2003
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                                        Personally, I like the idea of inspection ports between the cavity in question and the forward cockpit. You can open them periodically to dry out that otherwise sealed area. I have heard that foamed in areas tend to rot, and have seen rot in plastic boats where wood stringers were completely encased in fiberglass. However, if PCB recommends it, I would tend to accept that.

                                        Chuck
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Peter Lenihan
                                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 6:03 AM
                                        Subject: [bolger] Re: Rot prophylaxis


                                        Hi Sam,
                                        Interesting problem and sorry to hear about your mishap.
                                        Windermere also uses a similar device(fillet piece) to soften the
                                        harshness of a sharpie bottom.
                                        You say yours is not foam filled.Is this per plans or your own
                                        doing? On Windermere,they call for the use of a combination of
                                        expanding foam and foam peanuts to completely fill this enclosed
                                        cavity.
                                        How would I proceed if this was my boat? Incline the trailer
                                        such that any water which may be "stored" in the cavity gathers at
                                        one definite location.Take a drill and pierce a hole in the lowest
                                        part of this "location".Don't be shy about your hole size either.A
                                        one inch hole is easy enough to plug and seal up afterward........in
                                        fact,it should be a "piece of cake" for a builder :-) and gives you
                                        the chance to poke your finger in there to feel when it is dry.
                                        Once the area has been left to air itself out( a few days if it
                                        is really dry in your area),then a bit of epoxy well thickened and a
                                        small piece of wood ought to do it for plugging the hole.This big
                                        ugly blob can be easily sanded back into profile once the epoxy is
                                        cured.
                                        Perhaps,you may also wish to consider filling this cavity with
                                        foam. This can be accomplished through the installation of a couple
                                        of"inspection ports" through the hull bottom(underneath your forward
                                        cockpit) and installed near the centerline,each side of
                                        the "keel".Go slowly with the expanding foam. This is pretty much
                                        what is called for regarding Windermeres fillet piece cavity.
                                        Were the inside surfaces of your fillet pieces sealed with
                                        epoxy before installing them? Again, nice inspection ports might
                                        allow you to get in there with a brush-on-a-stick to seal those
                                        surfaces.
                                        Hope this makes sense and helps inspire you towards a happy
                                        solution. Also, do not forget to post pictures of your TOPAZ....we
                                        will not relent until you do so :-D

                                        Oh,and the groundhog? Forget that evil little bastard,he
                                        deserves much worse then being closed up inside your boat!


                                        Sincerely,
                                        Peter Lenihan, with less then an hour to go before the end of the
                                        grave yard shift,it is off to face the beast( it is sunny today!)
                                        and address some final details before tomorrows flipping fun,from
                                        along the shores of the St.Lawrence............


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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Sam Glasscock
                                        Thanks to everyone for suggestions. ... Peter, the plans were silent about this, and I was too stupid to think of it myself. I talked to Bolger about my
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 20, 2003
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                                          Thanks to everyone for suggestions.
                                          --- Peter Lenihan <ellengaest@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > You say yours is not foam filled.Is this per
                                          > plans or your own
                                          > doing? On Windermere,they call for the use of a
                                          > combination of
                                          > expanding foam and foam peanuts to completely fill
                                          > this enclosed
                                          > cavity.
                                          Peter, the plans were silent about this, and I
                                          was too stupid to think of it myself. I talked to
                                          Bolger about my concerns about this area, and he
                                          recommended the method you describe on Windemere.
                                          Unfortunately, I contacted PB AFTER I had sealed up
                                          the area. I was a little timid to use 100% expanding
                                          foam--it is so easy to overdo--and there are realy 6
                                          semisealed areas of the nose which would have reqired
                                          separate foaming. I was really concerned about rot.
                                          I bugged PB&F again and SA called me and told me (I'm
                                          condensing a little here) "Don't sweat it."
                                          Everything inside is sealed up with epoxy on all
                                          surfaces. I also talked to a West System tech who
                                          said that the main problem with these sealed area was
                                          changing outside air pressure, which caused the air in
                                          the closed volume to try to expand or contract, making
                                          hairline cracks which allow weepage, and thus rot. I
                                          took his advice, and epoxied in a piece of copper
                                          tubing through the bottom, and up to near the top of
                                          the covered sections under the bow. The tubing has a
                                          couple of pig-tail turns so that water can't find its
                                          way down into the nose, but pressure is eqaulized.
                                          While I don't like having an area I can't access, I
                                          got the strong impression from PB&F that they do not
                                          like inspection ports into this area; as most will be
                                          aware PB has a strong disiclination from through-hulls
                                          of any type. The nose skin is only 1/4", and that
                                          makes me a little chary of ports as well.
                                          I guess holes and hairdryers it is. Now if we
                                          could just get a dry day or two on the East Coast. . .
                                          .
                                          Sam

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                                        • Bruce Hallman
                                          ... Although Micro doesn t have a cutwater, it does have hollow voids in the fin keel that are underwater. PCB calls for drain holes and air holes in these
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 20, 2003
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                                            --- Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
                                            > I got the strong impression from PB&F
                                            > that they do not like inspection ports
                                            > into this area;

                                            Although Micro doesn't have a cutwater,
                                            it does have 'hollow' voids in the
                                            fin 'keel' that are underwater.

                                            PCB calls for drain holes and air holes
                                            in these voids, so the space can flood
                                            and drain, with Micro.

                                            Seems like a rot spot, but apparently not
                                            a big enough worry to bother PCB.

                                            I am leaning towards coating the inside of
                                            the Micro 'keel' voids with epoxy just to be
                                            conservative.
                                          • Sam Glasscock
                                            I would epoxy coat them, too, but at least they can drain and dry, unlike the Topaz-type nose. I was amazed at how little difference to trim flooding of the
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jun 20, 2003
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                                              I would epoxy coat them, too, but at least they can
                                              drain and dry, unlike the Topaz-type nose. I was
                                              amazed at how little difference to trim flooding of
                                              the nose makes--This curwater area could also be made
                                              to drain and flood without much affecting perfomance.

                                              How do Miconauts handle marine growth in the voids?
                                              Sam
                                              > Although Micro doesn't have a cutwater,
                                              > it does have 'hollow' voids in the
                                              > fin 'keel' that are underwater.
                                              >
                                              > PCB calls for drain holes and air holes
                                              > in these voids, so the space can flood
                                              > and drain, with Micro.
                                              >
                                              > Seems like a rot spot, but apparently not
                                              > a big enough worry to bother PCB.
                                              >
                                              > I am leaning towards coating the inside of
                                              > the Micro 'keel' voids with epoxy just to be
                                              > conservative.
                                              >
                                              >


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                                            • Peter Lenihan
                                              ... Go with solid 2X2 mahogany laminated into the same profile with appropriate notches to recieve the lead ballast.No flooding,no draining,no chipping of
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jun 20, 2003
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                                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
                                                wrote:
                                                > How do Miconauts handle marine growth in the voids?
                                                > Sam

                                                Go with solid 2X2 mahogany laminated into the same profile with
                                                appropriate notches to recieve the lead ballast.No flooding,no
                                                draining,no chipping of exposed plywood edges,no fear of rocky
                                                bottoms or misunderstandings with trailers and no bleeding zebra
                                                mussels to start a rapidly expanding zebra farm.........and that is
                                                just the beginning :-)

                                                Peter Lenihan, builder of LESTAT, a Bolger Micro and Queen of the
                                                small boat fleet..........
                                              • chodges31711
                                                With Piper Cub struts there is a procedure to fill the strut with linseed oil, pour out the excess and seal it to prevent rust on the inside. A little
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jun 20, 2003
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                                                  With Piper Cub struts there is a procedure to fill the strut with
                                                  linseed oil, pour out the excess and seal it to prevent rust on the
                                                  inside. A little antifreeze would be insurance against future rot.
                                                  It would seekout and travel to the same places that a little liquid
                                                  water would go to. If the water had a few ounces of antifreeze
                                                  waiting when it got there, future rot might be held at bay while the
                                                  crack was small and unnoticed.

                                                  Just a theory.

                                                  Charles
                                                • Hal Lynch
                                                  ... Sounds good but... What is the long term effect of antifreeze on plywood? hal
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jun 20, 2003
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                                                    On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 03:02 PM, chodges31711 wrote:

                                                    > A little antifreeze would be insurance against future rot.
                                                    > It would seekout and travel to the same places that a little liquid
                                                    > water would go to. If the water had a few ounces of antifreeze
                                                    > waiting when it got there, future rot might be held at bay while the
                                                    > crack was small and unnoticed.
                                                    >
                                                    > Just a theory.
                                                    >
                                                    > Charles

                                                    Sounds good but... What is the long term effect of antifreeze
                                                    on plywood?

                                                    hal
                                                  • Sam Glasscock
                                                    I had this same interesting suggestion made to me when I was building Topaz, by Dave Carnell, who, in addition to bing a boatbuider and hell of a nice guy, is
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jun 20, 2003
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                                                      I had this same interesting suggestion made to me when
                                                      I was building Topaz, by Dave Carnell, who, in
                                                      addition to bing a boatbuider and hell of a nice guy,
                                                      is also a chemical engineer. I suggested it to Phil
                                                      Bolger, and he replied "With respect to Dave Carnell,
                                                      we would not recommend glycol on plywood." He gave no
                                                      explanation. Like Hal, I would like to know--does
                                                      anyone have long-term experience with the effects of
                                                      glycol or either plywood or epoxy? Sam
                                                      > On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 03:02 PM, chodges31711
                                                      > wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > A little antifreeze would be insurance against
                                                      > future rot.
                                                      > > It would seekout and travel to the same places
                                                      > that a little liquid
                                                      > Sounds good but... What is the long term effect of
                                                      > antifreeze
                                                      > on plywood?
                                                      >
                                                      > hal
                                                      >
                                                      >


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                                                    • Bruce Hallman
                                                      ... The following website seems credible and is consistent with PCB: http://www.durable-wood.com/treated/index.php quoting: ... mixtures of borate and glycols
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jun 21, 2003
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                                                        --- Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > I suggested it to Phil Bolger, and he replied
                                                        > we would not recommend glycol on plywood."

                                                        The following website seems credible
                                                        and is consistent with PCB:

                                                        http://www.durable-wood.com/treated/index.php

                                                        quoting:

                                                        "... mixtures of borate and glycols are used to treat sound wood left
                                                        in place during repair of decay problems. The glycol helps the borate
                                                        to penetrate dry wood, arresting the activity of any fungus which
                                                        contacts it."

                                                        Glycol is used to help transport the poison [in this case, borate] to
                                                        the wood fibers.
                                                      • sanmi
                                                        Sorry to come in on this late, but I read the whole thread with interest, since I own an older (1994) AS-29. I ve spent some time working on areas that are
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Jun 28, 2003
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                                                          Sorry to come in on this late, but I read the whole thread with
                                                          interest, since I own an older (1994) AS-29. I've spent some time
                                                          working on areas that are constantly submerged during the season, and
                                                          at least on my boat, the epoxy and 9 oz sheathing isn't completely
                                                          waterproof, even where it has astonishing adhesion. The wood gets
                                                          damp, yet the only place that I've found rot in the plywood was in
                                                          one or two areas where the wood was crushed from impact, and there
                                                          only very little. All surfaces are thoroughly coated with epoxy.
                                                          I'm in the middle of widening the slots for the bilgeboards and the
                                                          pieces I cut out had some dampness, but they were off-the-shelf
                                                          clean. As Peter L noted last year, I have found some discoloration
                                                          around the stainless steel fasteners on the sides of the hull, but
                                                          believe there is another name for that.

                                                          I've seen some plywood skiffs with rot problems (I grew up in South
                                                          Louisiana), but those were usually in the chine interfaces. My
                                                          theory is the chines have plenty stress and the panels can flex to
                                                          let air in. On Alisa, I have spent a lot of time on the chines but
                                                          haven't seen that kind of problem.

                                                          Anyway, I know there is some disagreement about this, but I'm with
                                                          Dave Carnell when he says that there is something about epoxy coating
                                                          that stops rot.

                                                          Sam, I'd say empty it, patch it up and go boating. :-)

                                                          Frank San Miguel
                                                          Wilmington, DE


                                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          > As those of you who have seen the plans for Topaz (and
                                                          > Sitka Explorer, Tahiti, etc) are aware, the boat has a
                                                          > 1/4 skin over a false 'nose' section, application of
                                                          > which turns the boat from a sharpie into a deadrise
                                                          > hull, forward. I managed to drop the boat off the
                                                          > trailer (don't ask) last time I put her in, puncturing
                                                          > the skin into the otherwise sealed nose.
                                                          > Interestingly, although there is a lot of bouyancy in
                                                          > the nose, almost none of it is below the waterline,
                                                          > even with the nose puncuted, so I did not even notice
                                                          > the hole until I pulled her out--it had little or no
                                                          > effect on trim or performance.
                                                          > The hole is an easy patch, once the area has
                                                          > dried thouroughly, but because of the shape of the
                                                          > nose (not mine, Topazes)I will never be able to ensure
                                                          > that I have removed the last drop of water from this
                                                          > section. I am concerned about sealing this area back
                                                          > up with even a small amount of water in it, becasue of
                                                          > the posibility of rot. The nose (on my boat, at
                                                          > least) is not foam filled, just an empty chamber
                                                          > completely seatled off with epoxy-coated plywood. Any
                                                          > thoughts on what I could put up there prior to
                                                          > re-sealing to prevent rot? I could use glycol, I
                                                          > guess, but I'd rather not have liquid up there. Any
                                                          > dry chemicals that might work? Or is Peter's
                                                          > groundhog available for close-quarters sponge duty?
                                                          > Sam
                                                          >
                                                          >
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                                                        • Sam Glasscock
                                                          Thanks, Frank. That s encouraging. I put in a bunch of holes to drain out the water, dried it out with a shop vac, patched the hole in the bottom (plus all
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Jun 28, 2003
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                                                            Thanks, Frank. That's encouraging. I put in a bunch
                                                            of holes to drain out the water, dried it out with a
                                                            shop vac, patched the hole in the bottom (plus all the
                                                            drain holes). I have two holes through the sole from
                                                            above to close. I am going to put in some borax, then
                                                            do as you suggest. Sam
                                                            --- sanmi <sanmi@...> wrote:
                                                            > Anyway, I know there is some disagreement about
                                                            > this, but I'm with
                                                            > Dave Carnell when he says that there is something
                                                            > about epoxy coating
                                                            > that stops rot.
                                                            >
                                                            > Sam, I'd say empty it, patch it up and go boating.
                                                            > :-)
                                                            >

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