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Lead keel shaping

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  • rod_cahill
    I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mould. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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      I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mould. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what is the easiest way to shave the lead. One side is perfectly flat as it was the bottom of the mould whereas the open top has some irregularities that need to be evened out.
    • John and Kathy Trussell
      First, be aware that lead dust is nasty stuff and you a) need to wear a mask and b) wash thoroughly when you get done. Chappelle claims you can plane it with a
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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        First, be aware that lead dust is nasty stuff and you a) need to wear a mask and b) wash thoroughly when you get done.

         

        Chappelle claims you can plane it with a hand plane. I haven’t had much success. I have found that a Shinto rasp works pretty well. Files clog quickly and I have never tried power tools like a side grinder. I don’t claim any expertise and likely someone else has a better approach…

         

        JohnT

         


        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of rod_cahill
        Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 7:47 AM
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [bolger] Lead keel shaping

         

         

        I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mould. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what is the easiest way to shave the lead. One side is perfectly flat as it was the bottom of the mould whereas the open top has some irregularities that need to be evened out.

      • David
        I think it was on Welsfords Yahoo group that I heard someone, John maybe, talking about using a power planer. If hand tools (files) load up try coating them
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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          I think it was on Welsfords Yahoo group that I heard someone, John maybe, talking about using a power planer. If hand tools (files) load up try coating them with a layer of chalk before using them. They also make a file that had coarse curved teeth cut that was made for use with lead when it was used in auto body work.

          Dave


          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
          >
          > First, be aware that lead dust is nasty stuff and you a) need to wear a mask
          > and b) wash thoroughly when you get done.
          >
          >
          >
          > Chappelle claims you can plane it with a hand plane. I haven't had much
          > success. I have found that a Shinto rasp works pretty well. Files clog
          > quickly and I have never tried power tools like a side grinder. I don't
          > claim any expertise and likely someone else has a better approach.
          >
          >
          >
          > JohnT
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          > rod_cahill
          > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 7:47 AM
          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [bolger] Lead keel shaping
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an
          > open mould. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a
          > perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what
          > is the easiest way to shave the lead. One side is perfectly flat as it was
          > the bottom of the mould whereas the open top has some irregularities that
          > need to be evened out.
          >
        • BruceHallman
          ... Congratulations on the Micro build! I don t think the plans call for epoxy. If I recall correctly, the plans call that the lead ingot gets sandwiched
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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            On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 4:46 AM, rod_cahill <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mold. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing.

            Congratulations on the Micro build!

            I don't think the plans call for epoxy. If I recall correctly, the
            plans call that the lead ingot gets sandwiched between two pieces of
            1/4" plywood and nailed in place. (I found that the stubby fat nails
            that they market with "Simpson Brand" framing hardware worked great.)
            This ply-nail sandwich method has been tested many times and it does
            work good enough. It is up to you to decide if good enough isn't good
            enough for you and your option can include "belt and suspenders".

            Also, there is no need for "perfectly flat" in my opinion. When I did
            my Micro lead casting I needed to trim some edges, and for that I used
            a Skilsaw. Small bumps can be leveled with a hammer as lead is
            malleable, or cut with a hammer and chisel .

            I understand the concern about lead toxicity, don't eat or breath the
            dust. (Many of our parents exposed themselves to much higher amounts
            of lead shooting guns at the firing range, and look how they turned
            out!) To me the biggest safety hazard was handling and moving an
            awkward 400 lbs hunk of metal. It took some ingenuity to achieve this
            without dropping it and smashing a toe or finger.
          • meier.denis
            This is pretty close to next for me too. Did you pour it in one piece? You did say sections . Seems like 2 or 3 smaller pieces would be easier to handle than
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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              This is pretty close to next for me too. Did you pour it in one piece? You did say "sections". Seems like 2 or 3 smaller pieces would be easier to handle than one 400 pounder. I saw somewhere in the photos section where someone poured the keel in 3 sections and it looked much easier to deal with.
              How did you heat the lead? I don't have that part figured out yet.
              Right now I am sanding, sanding and sanding in preparation for painting above the waterline. I will wait until I have the lead installed before I finish below. Will order the sails from Duckworks this week and should be in the water in July.
              I checked the computer where I buy my supplies here in Edmonton and find that I am now 5 years into my 18 month build. On the other hand, the idea was to have it complete by the time I am old enough to retire so that puts me over a year ahead of schedule. Glass half full stuff.
              I am getting pretty excited about the prospect of finishing.

              Blessings,
              Denis Meier
              Onoway, Alberta, Canada
              #435 Duck (PDRacer)
              MicroWave (Micro with a cabin for camping)



              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rod_cahill" <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mould. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what is the easiest way to shave the lead. One side is perfectly flat as it was the bottom of the mould whereas the open top has some irregularities that need to be evened out.
              >
            • William
              Rod, I would either try pounding the high-spots with a hammer, or a hammer and chisel (or maybe a block plane). I assembled my Long Micro keel with 50 lb.
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                Rod,
                I would either try pounding the high-spots with a hammer, or a hammer and chisel (or maybe a block plane). I assembled my Long Micro keel with 50 lb. lead bricks, which I cut to length with a brick chisel and a hammer. I found that it worked better than cutting with a hacksaw (and I was too frightened to approach the lead with a circular saw or chain saw, although I've heard it works).

                I slathered each brick in thickened epoxy, slid the brick into the keel, then drilled pilot holes with a well lubricated drill bit, and screwed in place with silicone-bronze screws. Belt, suspenders, and epoxy.

                Bill in Texas

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 4:46 AM, rod_cahill <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mold. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing.
                >
                > Congratulations on the Micro build!
                >
                > I don't think the plans call for epoxy. If I recall correctly, the
                > plans call that the lead ingot gets sandwiched between two pieces of
                > 1/4" plywood and nailed in place. (I found that the stubby fat nails
                > that they market with "Simpson Brand" framing hardware worked great.)
                > This ply-nail sandwich method has been tested many times and it does
                > work good enough. It is up to you to decide if good enough isn't good
                > enough for you and your option can include "belt and suspenders".
                >
                > Also, there is no need for "perfectly flat" in my opinion. When I did
                > my Micro lead casting I needed to trim some edges, and for that I used
                > a Skilsaw. Small bumps can be leveled with a hammer as lead is
                > malleable, or cut with a hammer and chisel .
                >
                > I understand the concern about lead toxicity, don't eat or breath the
                > dust. (Many of our parents exposed themselves to much higher amounts
                > of lead shooting guns at the firing range, and look how they turned
                > out!) To me the biggest safety hazard was handling and moving an
                > awkward 400 lbs hunk of metal. It took some ingenuity to achieve this
                > without dropping it and smashing a toe or finger.
                >
              • BruceHallman
                ... I did one piece, per the plans, and I recommend it. Though, my pour was in three batches, filling the ingot mold about 1/2 inch each time. ... For the
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                  On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:30 AM, meier.denis <meier.denis@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > This is pretty close to next for me too. Did you pour it in one piece?

                  I did one piece, per the plans, and I recommend it. Though, my pour
                  was in three batches, filling the ingot mold about 1/2 inch each time.

                  > How did you heat the lead?

                  For the melt, I used a 5 gallon steel paint bucket setting on bricks.
                  Fired up with 75 lbs of BBQ briquettes, and I used my electric leaf
                  blower to hot it up with air. In hindsight I would have pre-melted
                  the wheel weights to remove the steel clips first, making a stack of
                  40 each 10 pound bricks, which I would then remelt for the 400 pour.
                • Myles J. Swift
                  Rod, I made mine in one piece. I test fit it to get off the high spots. I didn t have much to do, a draw knife worked well. I made a thick epoxy slurry to fill
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                    Rod,

                     

                    I made mine in one piece. I test fit it to get off the high spots. I didn’t have much to do, a draw knife worked well. I made a thick epoxy slurry to fill the low spots. When it was time to mount permanently I again made a thickened epoxy, coated the slot and lead, jacked it up into the slot and hammered home a couple hundred bronze ring shank nails. Once that was all set and sanded I covered the keel and about a foot on either side of the keel root with 6 layers of glass.

                     

                    MylesJ

                  • BruceHallman
                    One other thing...I transferred the molten lead from the melt pot to the ingot using an improvised steel ladle, scooping it like some VERY hot soup. Molten
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                      One other thing...I transferred the molten lead from the melt pot to
                      the ingot using an improvised steel ladle, scooping it like some VERY
                      hot soup. Molten lead has a viscosity like water.
                    • dennislancaster36
                      I made a wood plug and took it to a local foundry..... Dennis (oldshoe) Pearl Bellingham, WA
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                        I made a wood plug and took it to a local foundry.....

                        Dennis (oldshoe) Pearl
                        Bellingham, WA

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > One other thing...I transferred the molten lead from the melt pot to
                        > the ingot using an improvised steel ladle, scooping it like some VERY
                        > hot soup. Molten lead has a viscosity like water.
                        >
                      • Douglas Pollard
                        I poared a lead keel for a friend. I made the mould from 1/2 plywood fiber glassed the inside and buried it into the ground. Worked great except that the dirt
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                          I poared a lead keel for a friend. I made the mould from 1/2" plywood fiber glassed the inside and buried it into the ground. Worked great except that the dirt was not packed tight enough around the mould and the sides bowed out a little. I took my electric wood plane and planed the sides down some. Did the job but I had to stop after about 15 minuets and take the plane apart to clean the lead out that had packed into it. The plane threw most of the lead out I finished the job an cleaned the plane again It did no harm to the plane and I have used it a dozen times since. It didn't even dull the blades.                Doug
                           
                          On 04/12/2011 02:59 PM, dennislancaster36 wrote:
                           

                          I made a wood plug and took it to a local foundry.....

                          Dennis (oldshoe) Pearl
                          Bellingham, WA

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > One other thing...I transferred the molten lead from the melt pot to
                          > the ingot using an improvised steel ladle, scooping it like some VERY
                          > hot soup. Molten lead has a viscosity like water.
                          >


                        • alefoot
                          ... An electric handplane works well. It produces shavings rather than dust, so no ingestion/inhalation risk. The build guide which came with my plans called
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rod_cahill" <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I have now made sections of my Micro keel... When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what is the easiest way to shave the lead.

                            An electric handplane works well. It produces shavings rather than dust, so no ingestion/inhalation risk. The build guide which came with my plans called for epoxying in addition to bronze nailing. I would recommend pre-drilling for the nails, and having a few extra drill bits since it's fairly easy to break a bit in the 'grabby' lead.
                          • Rod Cahill
                            Denis,    I have made a ladder type of template from 40mm flat steel, sectioned into about 5 pieces, reason being so I wouldn;t need to pour in one sitting.
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                              Denis,
                                 I have made a ladder type of template from 40mm flat steel, sectioned into about 5 pieces, reason being so I wouldn;t need to pour in one sitting. I got my lead from an old printing works, most of it is in ingots about 6 inches long. I have filled the appropriate section with ingots then melted some lead in a kitchen saucepan to fill the gaps. Look in "Rods Micro", I will try to get a few photos today. The drama of handling one 190kg chunk is not something I now have to worry about. I am yet to do the sanding, sanding, sanding. I am not the most patient person and this job will probably be last.


                              From: meier.denis <meier.denis@...>
                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wed, 13 April, 2011 2:30:29 AM
                              Subject: [bolger] Re: Lead keel shaping

                              This is pretty close to next for me too. Did you pour it in one piece? You did say "sections". Seems like 2 or 3 smaller pieces would be easier to handle than one 400 pounder. I saw somewhere in the photos section where someone poured the keel in 3 sections and it looked much easier to deal with.
                              How did you heat the lead? I don't have that part figured out yet.
                              Right now I am sanding, sanding and sanding in preparation for painting above the waterline. I will wait until I have the lead installed before I finish below. Will order the sails from Duckworks this week and should be in the water in July.
                              I checked the computer where I buy my supplies here in Edmonton and find that I am now 5 years into my 18 month build. On the other hand, the idea was to have it complete by the time I am old enough to retire so that puts me over a year ahead of schedule. Glass half full stuff.
                              I am getting pretty excited about the prospect of finishing.

                              Blessings,
                              Denis Meier
                              Onoway, Alberta, Canada
                              #435 Duck  (PDRacer)
                              MicroWave  (Micro with a cabin for camping)



                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rod_cahill" <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I have now made sections of my Micro keel by pouring the hot lead into an open mould. When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what is the easiest way to shave the lead. One side is perfectly flat as it was the bottom of the mould whereas the open top has some irregularities that need to be evened out.
                              >




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                            • rod_cahill
                              Thankyou to all who have given advise on the shaping of lead keel. For those who may be interested I will give a brief description of how I have done things so
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                                Thankyou to all who have given advise on the shaping of lead keel. For those who may be interested I will give a brief description of how I have done things so far. I am yet to prove how successful my methods may be!
                                I have roughly welded a template from 40mm flat bar and sectioned it. The sectioning is so I don't need to do the pour in one sitting and to help keep the shape of the template. I then bent this template onto a waste piece of ply and screwed it in place.
                                I was fortunate enough to get some lead ingots from an old printing works. I filled the section with solid ingots then melted some in a kitchen saucepan and filled the gaps. The little single burner camp cooker did take about 20 minutes to melt 4 or 5 kg, lots of coffee breaks between pours. I have included some photos in "Rods Micro" photos. Any constructive criticism will be graciously accepted. I am learning as I go.
                              • John Huft
                                3M 6000 series half face respirator with P100 filters $24.95 plus shipping.
                                Message 15 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                                  3M 6000 series half face respirator with P100 filters  $24.95 plus shipping.
                                  Just saying,
                                  John Boy
                                   

                                  Live your dreams...






                                  From: alefoot <dgw@...>
                                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 5:45:36 PM
                                  Subject: [bolger] Re: Lead keel shaping

                                   



                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rod_cahill" <rod_cahill@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I have now made sections of my Micro keel... When it is cool enough it will need to be shaved to produce a perfectly flat surface to epoxy into the keel casing. My question is, what is the easiest way to shave the lead.

                                  An electric handplane works well. It produces shavings rather than dust, so no ingestion/inhalation risk. The build guide which came with my plans called for epoxying in addition to bronze nailing. I would recommend pre-drilling for the nails, and having a few extra drill bits since it's fairly easy to break a bit in the 'grabby' lead.


                                • Jason Kovatch
                                  Great job so far! I suggest you clamp two straight-edged guides along the entire length of the casting, one on each side, the top edge of both exactly
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Apr 12, 2011
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                                    Great job so far! I suggest you clamp two straight-edged guides along the entire length of the casting, one on each side, the top edge of both exactly parallel, a half-inch above the finish level. Try to get the edges parallel to the finish cut you want to avoid having to remove too much from one end. Then get a flat sheet of maybe 1/4" plywood > 2x the width of the casting, and bore a 1.5" hole for the bit in the center of the ply. Mount a serious router with a 1" end mill bit to center the plywood sheet, adjust the bit and the depth of the cut so it can plunge down to above the 3/4" the finish level, and use the guides to slide the router over and down, side to side across the entire face. First adjust the router depth to just clean off the very highest spots, and gradually lower the bit to remove the minimum material to get a flat surface. Wear a mask. The lead will go away fast. I have not done this, but it is what I would do. Good Luck. Maybe someone already suggested something like this, but I just get the digest, so I may be a little behind the topic.
                                     
                                    Jason K
                                    Everett WA
                                  • prairiedog2332
                                    Either of these tools might work. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/tools/shinto/index.htm http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-21-296-Surform-Plane-Regular/dp/B00002X1ZL I
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Apr 13, 2011
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                                      Either of these tools might work.

                                      http://www.duckworksbbs.com/tools/shinto/index.htm

                                      http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-21-296-Surform-Plane-Regular/dp/B00002X1ZL

                                      I have the Surform version but no lead to try it on. It works very much
                                      like cheese grater.

                                      Nels

                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <lae52@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I think it was on Welsfords Yahoo group that I heard someone, John
                                      maybe, talking about using a power planer. If hand tools (files) load up
                                      try coating them with a layer of chalk before using them. They also make
                                      a file that had coarse curved teeth cut that was made for use with lead
                                      when it was used in auto body work.
                                      >
                                      > Dave
                                      >
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