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Isometric, 16 foot Nord Coaster, design 576

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  • BruceHallman
    http://hallman.org/bolger/NordCoaster/ This looks like a quick to build lapstrake beauty.
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 7, 2011
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      http://hallman.org/bolger/NordCoaster/

      This looks like a quick to build lapstrake beauty.
    • Bill Howard
      Bruce: Beauty is the word! Is that a ballasted keel? How much ballast? Bill
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 7, 2011
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        Bruce:

        Beauty is the word!

        Is that a ballasted keel?  How much ballast?

        Bill
        On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:07 PM, BruceHallman wrote:

         

        http://hallman.org/bolger/NordCoaster/

        This looks like a quick to build lapstrake beauty.


      • Eric
        Bruce, Is the reason you are you able to build lapstrake hulls so quickly because the shape of each lapstrake is defined for you by the boat design program?
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 7, 2011
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          Bruce,

          Is the reason you are you able to build lapstrake hulls so quickly because the shape of each lapstrake is defined for you by the boat design program? So that you can cut and fair the edges of each lapstrake, nail, and glue? That is a very different process than produced the viking boats. The split ash and other wood created a piece of lumber that was wider on one edge than the other. Lapping the thin edge of one with the thick edge of the next over the length of the hull in large part defined the shape of the hull.
          Eric



          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
          >
          > http://hallman.org/bolger/NordCoaster/
          >
          > This looks like a quick to build lapstrake beauty.
          >
        • John and Kathy Trussell
          Quick to build in regard to what other construction method? In general, the length of time needed to build a boat varies directly with the number of pieces
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 8, 2011
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            Quick to build in regard to what other construction method?

             

            In general, the length of time needed to build a boat varies directly with the number of pieces that go into the boat. A plywood, flat bottomed boat is the quickest boat to build. If you want a ‘round bottomed’ boat, it becomes necessary to make a lot of curved planks and fit them. This can be accomplished using strip plank, cold molded, carvel, or lapstrake. Of these options, lapstrake is probably the fastest because it uses fewer pieces than strip or cold molded construction and because the planks are not ‘backed out’, faired, and calked (as is required with carvel construction).

             

            Given the vagaries of mold cutting and set up, I think that it is necessary to spile the planks and that the computer generated plank diagrams are useful as a guide for how much material is needed.

             

            It should also be noted that when the hull is assembled and comes off the molds, the boat is 50% or less complete. Fitting out and finishing will eat up a huge amount of time and this doesn’t vary much with type of construction used.

             

            JohnT

             


            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Eric
            Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 11:00 PM
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [bolger] Re: Isometric, 16 foot Nord Coaster, design 576

             

             

            Bruce,

            Is the reason you are you able to build lapstrake hulls so quickly because the shape of each lapstrake is defined for you by the boat design program? So that you can cut and fair the edges of each lapstrake, nail, and glue? That is a very different process than produced the viking boats. The split ash and other wood created a piece of lumber that was wider on one edge than the other. Lapping the thin edge of one with the thick edge of the next over the length of the hull in large part defined the shape of the hull.
            Eric

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:

            >
            > http://hallman.org/bolger/NordCoaster/
            >
            > This looks like a quick to build lapstrake beauty.
            >

          • Jim Elliott
            Proper answer Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: John and Kathy Trussell Sender: bolger@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 8
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 8, 2011
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              Proper answer

              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


              From: "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@...>
              Sender: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 07:58:19 -0500
              To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
              ReplyTo: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Isometric, 16 foot Nord Coaster, design 576

               

              Quick to build in regard to what other construction method?

               

              In general, the length of time needed to build a boat varies directly with the number of pieces that go into the boat. A plywood, flat bottomed boat is the quickest boat to build. If you want a ‘round bottomed’ boat, it becomes necessary to make a lot of curved planks and fit them. This can be accomplished using strip plank, cold molded, carvel, or lapstrake. Of these options, lapstrake is probably the fastest because it uses fewer pieces than strip or cold molded construction and because the planks are not ‘backed out’, faired, and calked (as is required with carvel construction).

               

              Given the vagaries of mold cutting and set up, I think that it is necessary to spile the planks and that the computer generated plank diagrams are useful as a guide for how much material is needed.

               

              It should also be noted that when the hull is assembled and comes off the molds, the boat is 50% or less complete. Fitting out and finishing will eat up a huge amount of time and this doesn’t vary much with type of construction used.

               

              JohnT

               


              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Eric
              Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 11:00 PM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [bolger] Re: Isometric, 16 foot Nord Coaster, design 576

               

               

              Bruce,

              Is the reason you are you able to build lapstrake hulls so quickly because the shape of each lapstrake is defined for you by the boat design program? So that you can cut and fair the edges of each lapstrake, nail, and glue? That is a very different process than produced the viking boats. The split ash and other wood created a piece of lumber that was wider on one edge than the other. Lapping the thin edge of one with the thick edge of the next over the length of the hull in large part defined the shape of the hull.
              Eric

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:

              >
              > http://hallman.org/bolger/NordCoaster/
              >
              > This looks like a quick to build lapstrake beauty.
              >

            • daschultz2000
              Bolger made this point in one of the books. Writing about Black Gauntlet, he suggested that plywood hull represented maybe 40% of the project. Makes sense
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 8, 2011
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                Bolger made this point in one of the books. Writing about Black Gauntlet, he suggested that plywood hull represented maybe 40% of the project. Makes sense given that hull was a flat bottom and plywood. Such boats can go 3D in even a month.

                Michalak suggests making sails and building masts and other rigging first, because you will need room to make the sail and it would be best to not have the hull occupying that space. Also using the "new project enthusiasm" on detail efforts like rigging will carry you through on them. Then the excitement of seeing the hull go 3D will rebuild enthusiasm late in the project.

                Don

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
                >
                > ....It should also be noted that when the hull is assembled and comes
                >off the molds, the boat is 50% or less complete. Fitting out and
                >finishing will eat up a huge amount of time and this doesn't vary
                >much with type of construction used....
              • BruceHallman
                ... I am probably contrary. Length of time depends also on the necessary accuracy. (Quick and dirty can be fast.) Lapstrake requires an accuracy of 2
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 8, 2011
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                  > In general, the length of time needed to build a boat varies directly with the number of pieces that go into the boat.

                  I am probably contrary. Length of time depends also on the necessary
                  accuracy. (Quick and dirty can be fast.)

                  Lapstrake requires an accuracy of 2 inches, because "lapping" means
                  lap joints, and laps (overlaps) are very tolerant of inaccuracy.

                  Hard chines require an accuracy of perhaps 1/2 inch or so, and hence
                  take about as long as quick and dirty lapstrake.

                  I tested this once, building a 16 foot lapstrake boat in 40 manhours
                  spread out in the spare time between June 4 and June 12, 2005. Don't
                  look to close as there are many cosmetic flaws, but that boat still is
                  the favorite in my fleet. And, yes, the use of computer lofting of
                  the strake and bulkhead shapes is a tremendous time saver.

                  Photo album of my 40 hour lapstrake build is here:

                  http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE
                • John and Kathy Trussell
                  Well, measurements are measurements, and I generally hope to get closer than 2 . Renaissance artists operated on the idea that only God could achieve
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 8, 2011
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                    Well, measurements are measurements, and I generally hope to get closer than 2 “.  Renaissance artists operated on the idea that only God could achieve perfection and that for mere mortals to achieve perfection was sacrilegious. Therefore, they deliberately added imperfections to their products. With old eyes and limited powers of concentration, I have not yet found deliberate imperfections necessary! I have found that errors in measurements cascade and that the first errors are likely to occur in the molds and setup; hence my practice of spiling planks rather than following computer generated shapes.

                     

                    One really quick way of building is to purchase a kit consisting of planks and molds/bulkheads. This eliminates a lot of measuring, searching out materials, and cutting/planing.

                     

                    JohnT

                     


                    From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BruceHallman
                    Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 10:38 AM
                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Isometric, 16 foot Nord Coaster, design 576

                     

                     

                    > In general, the length of time needed to build a boat varies directly with the number of pieces that go into the boat.

                    I am probably contrary. Length of time depends also on the necessary
                    accuracy. (Quick and dirty can be fast.)

                    Lapstrake requires an accuracy of 2 inches, because "lapping" means
                    lap joints, and laps (overlaps) are very tolerant of inaccuracy.

                    Hard chines require an accuracy of perhaps 1/2 inch or so, and hence
                    take about as long as quick and dirty lapstrake.

                    I tested this once, building a 16 foot lapstrake boat in 40 manhours
                    spread out in the spare time between June 4 and June 12, 2005. Don't
                    look to close as there are many cosmetic flaws, but that boat still is
                    the favorite in my fleet. And, yes, the use of computer lofting of
                    the strake and bulkhead shapes is a tremendous time saver.

                    Photo album of my 40 hour lapstrake build is here:

                    http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE

                  • BruceHallman
                    On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:36 AM, John and Kathy Trussell ... Measurements are followed by cutting which is followed by fitting. By easing up the tolerance
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 8, 2011
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                      On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:36 AM, John and Kathy Trussell
                      <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, measurements are measurements, and I generally hope to get closer than 2 “.


                      Measurements are followed by cutting which is followed by fitting. By
                      easing up the tolerance "quick and dirty", is is possible (but not
                      necessary) that lapstrake construction can be very fast. Or, at least
                      speaking just for myself, I have proven to myself that a 16 foot boat
                      is possible in 40 manhours.

                      Funny thing about the: "Renaissance artists operated on the idea that
                      only God could achieve perfection and that for mere mortals to achieve
                      perfection was sacrilegious."

                      I used to do a lot of art sculpting in wood, and I found that when
                      selling it, that people tended to like it when things were a bit
                      asymmetrical. The human face is asymmetrical. Things perfectly
                      symmetrical look "machine made" and cold. Similar can be said for
                      lapstrake boats (in my opinion, of course). To me at least, they
                      accept looser tolerances, and because of this they can be very quick
                      to build.
                    • c.ruzer
                      ... True that. Moreover, for a larger boat with accomodations there s the accelerations available from doing the bottom and lower topsides inverted; and, after
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 9, 2011
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                        > In general, the length of time needed to build a boat varies
                        > directly with the number of pieces that go into the boat. A
                        > plywood, flat bottomed boat is the quickest boat to build.

                        True that. Moreover, for a larger boat with accomodations there's the accelerations available from doing the bottom and lower topsides inverted; and, after flipping, there's more accelerations available from leaving some topside panels out to accelerate internal fit out; let alone that, no thanks to Euclid, in at least one of the two usually all curved spatial dimensions here there are accelerations available from straight lines.
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