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Presto-style isometric (was Re: Bolger on sharpies)

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  • Peter
    ... I would say his world view was plenty wide to include both types. He designed both types, plus plenty of similar boats. However, his remarks on a high bow
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 4, 2011
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      > It is worth mentioning that when PCB speaks of "sharpies" he is not
      > thinking "sharp chine" like with his box boats.

      I would say his world view was plenty wide to include both types. He designed both types, plus plenty of similar boats. However, his remarks on a high bow inducing flow from the bottom to the sides apply to chine boats, including boat sharpies and other flat-bottom skiffs.

      I think you are right that he didn't consider Micro and Long Micro to be sharpies. They are a little too beamy, plus the keel. Black Skimmer, Skillygallee, and Black Gauntlet are certainly sharpies.
    • Bruce Hallman
      ... Certainly. And compare the deep belly of the Micro to the bottom flatness of a flat-bottom skiff. Different as night and day.
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 4, 2011
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        On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Peter <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > > It is worth mentioning that when PCB speaks of "sharpies" he is not
        > > thinking "sharp chine" like with his box boats.
        >
        > I would say his world view was plenty wide to include both types. He designed both types, plus plenty of similar boats. However, his remarks on a high bow inducing flow from the bottom to the sides apply to chine boats, including boat sharpies and other flat-bottom skiffs.


        Certainly. And compare the deep belly of the Micro to the bottom
        flatness of a flat-bottom skiff. Different as night and day.
      • Christopher C. Wetherill
        PCB s comments in Presto Cruiser chapter carry the description sharp bowed applied directly to the designation sharpie . It is implicit that from that
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 4, 2011
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          PCB's comments in Presto Cruiser chapter carry the description "sharp bowed" applied directly to the designation "sharpie".  It is implicit that from that discussion that the term applies to narrow, flat bottomed boats without a lot of curvature at the stem.  I do not know if he stated his definition, but I feel like I have seen it somewhere.  John Gardner uses it this way, with the added comment that a narrow flat-iron skiff with rocker is a sharpie.  I do recall PCB discussing length:beamn ratio of 6:1 for larger boats.  It is worth noting, also, that the Advanced Sharpie concept includes the feature that the shape is an otherwise normally proportioned sharpie with the bow and stern overhangs truncated.

          V/R
          Chris

          On 1/4/2011 12:53 PM, Peter wrote:
          It is worth mentioning that when PCB speaks of "sharpies" he is not
          thinking "sharp chine" like with his box boats.
          
          I would say his world view was plenty wide to include both types. He designed both types, plus plenty of similar boats. However, his remarks on a high bow inducing flow from the bottom to the sides apply to chine boats, including boat sharpies and other flat-bottom skiffs.
          
          I think you are right that he didn't consider Micro and Long Micro to be sharpies. They are a little too beamy, plus the keel. Black Skimmer, Skillygallee, and Black Gauntlet are certainly sharpies.
          
          
          
          
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        • Bruce Hallman
          ... Agreed. Long narrow boats, by their very nature, have sharp bows. That is, unless you chop the bow off, as with a bow transom.
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 4, 2011
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            > "sharp bowed" applied directly to the designation "sharpie".
            ...
            > length:beam ratio of 6:1

            Agreed.

            Long narrow boats, by their very nature, have sharp bows.

            That is, unless you chop the bow off, as with a bow transom. <grin>
          • Christopher C. Wetherill
            Absolutely. I was trying to make the point that there seems to be more to the mix in order to be called sharpie in the classical terminology. I have not
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 4, 2011
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              Absolutely.  I was trying to make the point that there seems to be more to the mix in order to be called "sharpie" in the classical terminology.  I have not seen a definition in a while, but single chine, flat bottom (traditionally planks straight from chine to chine), and rocker figure prominently.  A Chesapeake Bay crabber (40' L x 8-10' W V-8 power) would not qualify because it has a keel and deadrise.

              Somewhere in one of his books, I am thinking it's in one of the chapters of "The Folding Schooner" he discusses both what a sharpie is and the concept that it woks best when heeled, thus side and bottom cleave the water with their chine.

              I hope I'm not flogging a dead horse here, I am merely trying to support and amplify the differentiation between sharpie as a type and "sharp chined".

              V/R
              Chris

              On 1/4/2011 3:49 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
              "sharp bowed" applied directly to the designation "sharpie".
              
              ...
              
              length:beam ratio of 6:1
              
              Agreed.
              
              Long narrow boats, by their very nature, have sharp bows.
              
              That is, unless you chop the bow off, as with a bow transom. <grin>
              
              
              
            • Joe T
              What distinguishes the Presto type from other sharpies before its time is the well rounded chine. This should reduce or eliminate the problem of chine eddying,
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 4, 2011
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                What distinguishes the Presto type from other sharpies before its time is the well rounded chine. This should reduce or eliminate the problem of chine eddying, as well as the generous length to beam ratio. Learned from guru PB, as well as my own experience with hard chine kayaks mostly.
                Might be accomplished with thick wood strip at the chines in a ply boat. Haven't seen it done though.

                Joe T

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                >
                > It is worth mentioning that when PCB speaks of "sharpies" he is not
                > thinking "sharp chine" like with his box boats. Micro and Old Shoe
                > have sharp chines, but they are not sharpied. He is thinking of
                > "sharpie" meaning a high length to beam ratio. The classic "sharpie"
                > in PCB's mind was probably the Commodore Munroe designed boat Presto,
                > and PCB did a re-design of Presto for one of the Small Boat Journal
                > articles. Here is an isometric:
                >
                > Presto-style cruiser
                > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Presto-style/
                >
                > 27 feet long x 7 foot width. Inside ballast made of steel bars in
                > concrete. Cat yawl. Carvel planked, or cold molded.
                >
              • c.ruzer
                ... Google about Gary Lepak s Bufflehead . Articles at duckwork, for example. No doubt that boat discussed here as elsewhere. A start:
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 5, 2011
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                  > Might be accomplished with thick wood strip at the chines in a ply boat. Haven't seen it done though.


                  Google about Gary Lepak's 'Bufflehead'. Articles at duckwork, for example. No doubt that boat discussed here as elsewhere. A start:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/42064


                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe T" <scsbmsjoe@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > What distinguishes the Presto type from other sharpies before its time is the well rounded chine. This should reduce or eliminate the problem of chine eddying, as well as the generous length to beam ratio. Learned from guru PB, as well as my own experience with hard chine kayaks mostly.
                  > Might be accomplished with thick wood strip at the chines in a ply boat. Haven't seen it done though.
                  >
                  > Joe T
                • Myles J. Swift
                  Presto is one of those boats that gets me wanting to retire sooner rather than later. A 25 to 30 foot sharpie is at the top of my dream list. MylesJ
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 5, 2011
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                    Presto is one of those boats that gets me wanting to retire sooner rather than later. A 25 to 30 foot sharpie is at the top of my dream list.

                     

                    MylesJ

                  • c.ruzer
                    Another one from WB#77 July/August 1987, BOATBROKERS, p134: 35 Bolger Gentleman s Presto Type - flush decked, gaff cat, $125k. (ad for Nantucket brokers)
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 19, 2011
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                      Another one from WB#77 July/August 1987, BOATBROKERS, p134:

                      "35' Bolger Gentleman's Presto Type - flush decked, gaff cat, $125k." (ad for Nantucket brokers)



                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                      > The classic "sharpie"
                      > in PCB's mind was probably the Commodore Munroe designed boat Presto,
                      > and PCB did a re-design of Presto for one of the Small Boat Journal
                      > articles. Here is an isometric:
                      >
                      > Presto-style cruiser
                      > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Presto-style/
                      >
                      > 27 feet long x 7 foot width. Inside ballast made of steel bars in
                      > concrete. Cat yawl. Carvel planked, or cold molded.
                      >
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