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Yamato Launch isometeric (was Large, big, long Diablo )

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  • Bruce Hallman
    http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/ Here is a quick isometric of Yamato Launch, design 511. Not exactly like a Diablo, with the cutwater and all. It is
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 28, 2010
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      http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/

      Here is a quick isometric of Yamato Launch, design 511. Not exactly
      like a Diablo, with the cutwater and all. It is worth mentioning that
      design 511 is a relatively recent number and in the text writeup to
      Samuel Clyde, PCB mentioned he wanted to add a cutwater to the hull,
      and this cutwater on Yamato might be a reflection of that train of
      thought.


      On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Peter <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > > No one has mentioned the discussions of
      > > "Yamato Boats" that were bouncing
      > > around over the last couple of years.
      >
      > I found this reference to a MAIB article.
      >
      > V11 N01 Yamato Fishing Launch 5/15/1993
      >
      > I would take that to mean Volume 11, Number 1. I have a vague memory of the article, but not of the boat.
    • Peter
      ... Very nice, Bruce. Unless he had some good reason not too, PCB usually worked within a accepted American style. I think his adaptations of other types
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 28, 2010
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        > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/
        > Here is a quick isometric of Yamato Launch, design 511.

        Very nice, Bruce.

        Unless he had some good reason not too, PCB usually worked within a accepted American style. I think his adaptations of other types really display genius at capturing shape and style. (Could anyone else have done the Plywood 12 1/2?) The Yamato looks great. (PCB would say it looks "well." He was a purist about some points of language.)

        Peter
      • John Huft
        I know its not a Bolger design but Harry Sucher has a whole chapter on Hawaiian Yamato boats in his Simplified Boatbuilding, The V-Bottom Boat.  It s out of
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 28, 2010
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          I know its not a Bolger design but Harry Sucher has a whole chapter on Hawaiian Yamato boats in his Simplified Boatbuilding, The V-Bottom Boat.  It's out of print but you can find it at Amazon
          http://www.amazon.com/Simplified-Boatbuilding-V-Bottom-Harry-Sucher/dp/0393031802 His boats are not instant boats but he has a lot of good information on them.  His plate 29 on page 243 looks similar to the Bolger cartoon somebody linked to earlier.
          John Boy 

           

           

          ."It's the tides, man.  They can either work for you or they can work against you... 
          Confidentially, I've had this problem with the tides before."
          --Captain Ron



          From: Peter <pvanderwaart@...>
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, December 28, 2010 4:13:59 PM
          Subject: [bolger] Re: Yamato Launch isometeric (was Large, big, long Diablo )

           

          > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/
          > Here is a quick isometric of Yamato Launch, design 511.

          Very nice, Bruce.

          Unless he had some good reason not too, PCB usually worked within a accepted American style. I think his adaptations of other types really display genius at capturing shape and style. (Could anyone else have done the Plywood 12 1/2?) The Yamato looks great. (PCB would say it looks "well." He was a purist about some points of language.)

          Peter


        • Fred Schumacher
          ... This boat looks very much like the yamato-gata boats Phil saw in Tokyo Bay during his service in the army of occupation after WW II, and as he wrote about
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 29, 2010
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            On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
             

            http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/

            Here is a quick isometric of Yamato Launch, design 511.


            This boat looks very much like the yamato-gata boats Phil saw in Tokyo  Bay during his service in the army of occupation after WW II, and as he wrote about in his first magazine article, which was republished by Watercraft magazine a couple of years ago. The cutwater and thick, wide bottom plank, instead of a keel, is distinctive of these boats.

            Bruce, can you post straight-on bow and stern shots, so we can see how the lines work out?  Thanks.

            fred s.

          • Bruce Hallman
            ... http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/Linesplan.jpg
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 29, 2010
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              > Bruce, can you post straight-on bow and stern shots, so we can see how the lines work out?  Thanks.
              >
              > fred s.


              http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/Linesplan.jpg
            • Fred Schumacher
              ... Bruce, thanks for posting the lines plan. Phil didn t follow his equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm for this boat but stayed with the traditional
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
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                On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                 

                > Bruce, can you post straight-on bow and stern shots, so we can see how the lines work out?  Thanks.
                >
                > fred s.

                http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/Linesplan.jpg

                Bruce, thanks for posting the lines plan. Phil didn't follow his equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm for this boat but stayed with the traditional form. Is it possible that it is from the yamato boats that Phil got his idea for the thick shoe keel, as on Clam Skiff?

                This design looks like it would work very well as a fishing boat. It would ride soft, but not heel too much when leaning over the gunwale to work lines or nets.

                fred s.

              • cecbell
                I m curious. Which of his boats actually follows the equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm you mention? ... how ... with the ... Phil ... would ... lines
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
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                  I'm curious. Which of his boats actually follows the
                  "equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm" you mention?


                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Bruce Hallman hallman@... wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Bruce, can you post straight-on bow and stern shots, so we can see
                  how
                  > > the lines work out? Thanks.
                  > > >
                  > > > fred s.
                  > >
                  > > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/Linesplan.jpg
                  > >
                  >
                  > Bruce, thanks for posting the lines plan. Phil didn't follow his
                  > equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm for this boat but stayed
                  with the
                  > traditional form. Is it possible that it is from the yamato boats that
                  Phil
                  > got his idea for the thick shoe keel, as on Clam Skiff?
                  >
                  > This design looks like it would work very well as a fishing boat. It
                  would
                  > ride soft, but not heel too much when leaning over the gunwale to work
                  lines
                  > or nets.
                  >
                  > fred s.
                  >
                • Bruce Hallman
                  ... I think the so called box boats like the Micro, AS-19, AS-29 and AS-39 come pretty close to having equal curvature of their sides to their bottoms.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
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                    On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 7:03 AM, cecbell <cecbell@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I'm curious. Which of his boats actually follows the
                    > "equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm" you mention?
                    >

                    I think the so called "box boats" like the Micro, AS-19, AS-29 and
                    AS-39 come pretty close to having equal curvature of their sides to
                    their bottoms.
                  • Fred Schumacher
                    ... His square boats from the 80s on tend to follow this plan. If looked at from bow-on or stern-on, the chine line will bisect the angle formed by the side
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
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                      On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:03 AM, cecbell <cecbell@...> wrote:
                       


                      I'm curious. Which of his boats actually follows the
                      "equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm" you mention?


                      His square boats from the 80s on tend to follow this plan. If looked at from bow-on or stern-on, the chine line will bisect the angle formed by the side and bottom. Phil talked about this in BWAOM, stating that by evenly splitting the water flow, eddies swirling across the chine would be reduced. That is why boats like Micro have a transom bow, since taking the lines out to a pointy stem would result in a bow too high out of the water. However, by adding a box-keel cutwater under the bow, he could get around this problem.

                      Perhaps Bruce could post some of his lines plans or links to them to show Phil's methodology.

                      fred s.

                    • cecbell
                      Thanks Fred and Bruce. I d read that comment in BWAOM (under the Presto Cruiser, I believe) and some others a while back in a thread here. I recently had a
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
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                        Thanks Fred and Bruce. I'd read that comment in BWAOM (under the Presto
                        Cruiser, I believe) and some others a while back in a thread here. I
                        recently had a tentaive interest in scaling the AS-29 by half as a cheap
                        rowboat to see how that played out, thinking the AS-29 had that
                        property. But as I started to draw it, the difference between the bottom
                        profile and the arc of the side was more than I'd call reasonably close.
                        I suspect it would be difficult to design a practical boat that follows
                        that principle literally without accepting a wide bow transom (or a very
                        narrow boat or excessive rocker and draft). From what I'm able to see,
                        the Micro seems to be similar to the AS-29 in that regard. Perhaps it's
                        good enough to come closer to the idea in the way the AS-29 and Micro
                        (and others) do. I didn't mean to hijack this thread with this diversion
                        so I'll bail out at this point. Thanks.


                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:03 AM, cecbell cecbell@... wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I'm curious. Which of his boats actually follows the
                        > > "equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm" you mention?
                        > >
                        >
                        > His square boats from the 80s on tend to follow this plan. If looked
                        at from
                        > bow-on or stern-on, the chine line will bisect the angle formed by the
                        side
                        > and bottom. Phil talked about this in BWAOM, stating that by evenly
                        > splitting the water flow, eddies swirling across the chine would be
                        reduced.
                        > That is why boats like Micro have a transom bow, since taking the
                        lines out
                        > to a pointy stem would result in a bow too high out of the water.
                        However,
                        > by adding a box-keel cutwater under the bow, he could get around this
                        > problem.
                        >
                        > Perhaps Bruce could post some of his lines plans or links to them to
                        show
                        > Phil's methodology.
                        >
                        > fred s.
                        >
                      • Fred Schumacher
                        ... You re exactly right. Phil flattened the bottom curve toward the bow to keep it from coming too high out of the water. If a box keel cutwater is added,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
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                          On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 10:56 AM, cecbell <cecbell@...> wrote:
                           


                          Thanks Fred and Bruce. I'd read that comment in BWAOM (under the Presto
                          Cruiser, I believe) and some others a while back in a thread here. I
                          recently had a tentaive interest in scaling the AS-29 by half as a cheap
                          rowboat to see how that played out, thinking the AS-29 had that
                          property. But as I started to draw it, the difference between the bottom
                          profile and the arc of the side was more than I'd call reasonably close.
                          I suspect it would be difficult to design a practical boat that follows
                          that principle literally without accepting a wide bow transom (or a very
                          narrow boat or excessive rocker and draft). From what I'm able to see,
                          the Micro seems to be similar to the AS-29 in that regard. Perhaps it's
                          good enough to come closer to the idea in the way the AS-29 and Micro
                          (and others) do.


                          You're exactly right. Phil flattened the bottom curve toward the bow to keep it from coming too high out of the water. If a box keel cutwater is added, however, it is then possible to make the two curves exactly the same. I have played around with sketching such a change on Micro. Perhaps Susanne could step in and give us a fuller explanation.

                          fred s.

                        • Harry James
                          Black Skimmer for a start. HJ
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
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                            Black Skimmer for a start.

                            HJ

                            On 12/30/2010 6:03 AM, cecbell wrote:
                            > I'm curious. Which of his boats actually follows the
                            > "equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm" you mention?
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher<fredschum@...> wrote:
                            >> On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Bruce Hallman hallman@... wrote:
                            >>
                            >>>
                            >>>> Bruce, can you post straight-on bow and stern shots, so we can see
                            > how
                            >>> the lines work out? Thanks.
                            >>>> fred s.
                            >>> http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/Linesplan.jpg
                            >>>
                            >> Bruce, thanks for posting the lines plan. Phil didn't follow his
                            >> equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm for this boat but stayed
                            > with the
                            >> traditional form. Is it possible that it is from the yamato boats that
                            > Phil
                            >> got his idea for the thick shoe keel, as on Clam Skiff?
                            >>
                            >> This design looks like it would work very well as a fishing boat. It
                            > would
                            >> ride soft, but not heel too much when leaning over the gunwale to work
                            > lines
                            >> or nets.
                            >>
                            >> fred s.
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Bolger rules!!!
                            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • prairiedog2332
                            My observation is that Whalewatcher comes very close. Nels ... see ... that ... It ... work ... dead horses ... posts ... Fax: (978) 282-1349 ... Yahoo! Groups
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
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                              My observation is that Whalewatcher comes very close.

                              Nels

                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Black Skimmer for a start.
                              >
                              > HJ
                              >
                              > On 12/30/2010 6:03 AM, cecbell wrote:
                              > > I'm curious. Which of his boats actually follows the
                              > > "equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm" you mention?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacherfredschum@ wrote:
                              > >> On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Bruce Hallman hallman@ wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>> Bruce, can you post straight-on bow and stern shots, so we can
                              see
                              > > how
                              > >>> the lines work out? Thanks.
                              > >>>> fred s.
                              > >>> http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Yamato/Linesplan.jpg
                              > >>>
                              > >> Bruce, thanks for posting the lines plan. Phil didn't follow his
                              > >> equal-curves-in-plan-and-profile paradigm for this boat but stayed
                              > > with the
                              > >> traditional form. Is it possible that it is from the yamato boats
                              that
                              > > Phil
                              > >> got his idea for the thick shoe keel, as on Clam Skiff?
                              > >>
                              > >> This design looks like it would work very well as a fishing boat.
                              It
                              > > would
                              > >> ride soft, but not heel too much when leaning over the gunwale to
                              work
                              > > lines
                              > >> or nets.
                              > >>
                              > >> fred s.
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > Bolger rules!!!
                              > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                              > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
                              dead horses
                              > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
                              posts
                              > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                              > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                              Fax: (978) 282-1349
                              > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Bruce Hallman
                              ... Ditto for Advanced Sharpie 19, nearly identical side and bottom curvatures, I believe.
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 31, 2010
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                                On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 11:02 PM, prairiedog2332 <arvent@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > My observation is that Whalewatcher comes very close.
                                >
                                > Nels
                                >

                                Ditto for Advanced Sharpie 19, nearly identical side and bottom
                                curvatures, I believe.
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