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RE: [bolger] Re: towable storage & Martha Jane

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  • John and Kathy Trussell
    Canoe covers a multitude of sins. Arguably, any double ended boat can be (and sometimes is) called canoe and this includes such paragons of seaworthiness as
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 20, 2010

      Canoe covers a multitude of sins. Arguably, any double ended boat can be (and sometimes is) called” canoe” and this includes such paragons of seaworthiness as pea pods and faerings!


      In general, what the Brits call an “Indian canoe” is not particularly sea worthy because it is dominated by crew weight; the crew weight is comparatively high above the waterline: and the crew weight is dynamic. If the crew leans out too far, the canoe capsizes. Most canoes are open and if they take on water, this adds to the instability.


      Most of the shortcomings can be overcome by lowering the weight in the canoe and adding decking, in which case you get something like a Rob Roe canoe or kayak. IMHO, neither canoes nor kayaks are satisfactory tenders because when they are empty, they are unstable.  Boarding and empty canoe or kayak from a bigger boat is a quick way to go swimming. Something like a small pea pod (Hylan’s ‘Beach Pea’ or Bolgers Sweet Pea) might be a better choice.  And of course any towed tender adds drag and reduces speed.




      From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Eric
      Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 8:30 PM
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [bolger] Re: towable storage & Martha Jane



      I am willing to believe that there are seaworthy canoes in your neck of the woods, and I have seen seaworthy "cargo canoes" on James Bay that had big outboards and no more than vague shape relationship to the canoes that people paddle on streams, rivers and lakes. The classic Grummand aluminum canoe typifies the type of canoe I am talking about and people drown in that sort of canoe on a regular basis. I built Windsprint and it seems very much like a canoe - both double ended, shallow sided - and yet in conditions Windsprint was perfectly safe in I had one of the most terrifying experiences of my life - no possible heading to keep water out of the canoe. My cousins who are avid canoeists survived an experience in a very expensive white water canoe they were crossing a lake in only because of their skill and strength and ability to bail and paddle at the same time.


      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Padvorac" <roger@...> wrote:

      > Hi Eric,
      > I live near Seattle
      in the land of oceangoing canoes, and I don't understand what your concern is about canoes. Oceangoing canoes have been in use here for thousands of years. Some of Bolger's sharpies have nearly the same proportions and shape as these oceangoing canoes, and I find it fascinating that he considered this a valuable shape for a plywood boat.
      > Any boat or canoe with the proportions and shape of the Zephyr is working
      with the design principles of ocean going canoes.
      > www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
      > The main difference between the Zephyr and ocean going canoes is they have
      slightly higher sides and a bow that is raised and pointed more than the Zephyr. A major goal of the Instant Boat series was quick, easy, and inexpensive to build. Anybody willing to buy a few more sheets of plywood could raise the sides several inches and the bow a foot or so, and then thicken the bottom of the boat. Besides providing better protection when a wave dumps you on a submerged rock, the thicker bottoms provided a critical bit of ballast.
      > There are many different kinds of canoes, and so a person would need to
      match the canoe to the tow boat, and to the expected conditions. There are canoes that can't even cope with ripples on a pond, and then there are canoes for the north Pacific in bad weather.
      > People travel by canoe from Seattle
      w:st="on">Washington to Alaska . The fur trappers would take cargo canoes filled with tons of furs down the rapids of major rivers in spring flood. Some canoe styles are extremely seaworthy for a small boat. Besides this, the canoe shape has a small amount of drag compared to regular boats. All of this is part of why so many explorers used large canoes to go exploring. This is why Little and Walsh used a storage canoe to extend their cruising range by increasing the amount of supplies they could take with them.
      > The book "The Canoe: A Living Tradition" has excellent text and
      pictures that do an amazing job of conveying the strength and versatility of canoes in a wide range of conditions.
      > This thread started with a concern that the Martha Jane didn't have enough
      cargo capacity for an extended cruise where an engine would be used quite a bit and there was a need to take a lot of fuel on the cruise. Yes, towing a storage boat will slow the tow boat down. However if this is only done once in a great while, towing the storage boat to increase cargo capacity is reasonable option compared to buying a bigger boat, with more cargo capacity, that isn't needed or wanted most of the time.
      > The larger boats, with lots of cargo capacity for supplies for extended
      cruises, cost lots of money to build or buy, and then cost lots more money for moorage or storage. For many people the only feasible plan for acquiring the cargo capacity for extended cruising is towing an economical storage boat.
      > Some people enjoy building boats, some don't. Canoes are already optimized
      for low drag, and so buying a canoe that fitted the conditions of the cruise, and outfitting it with a stout cover is a comparatively quick and easy way to get a towable, seaworthy, storage container.
      > I don't remember the book "Beachcruising and Coastal Camping"
      mentioning construction details for the cover, and now thanks to Mark's email of December 19, there are some specific suggestions for making your own cover for a storage boat.
      > A seagoing canoe with a really stout cover is possibly even more seaworthy
      than the Martha Jane and other small cruising boats. The covered canoe could survive temporary immersion from a large wave, and I'm not sure the Martha Jane is that seaworthy. So in this context, it seems a storage canoe could be seaworthy enough to match a small cruiser for an occasional extended cruise. This is a key point - the towed storage boat doesn't have to be super seaworthy, it just needs to be as seaworthy as the boat towing it.
      > Sincerely,
      > Roger
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Eric" <eric14850@...>
      > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 6:17 PM
      > Subject: [bolger] Re: towable storage & Martha Jane
      > > Canoes are DANGEROUS except when used for their designed purpose
      streams, ponds, and along shore of lakes. Use a special built torpedo, kayak, or seaworthy row boat covered over as described or otherwise. Torpedo built with four sides having the same curve would be easy to build, and the midsection storage area would not be hard to make water tight.
      > >
      > > I would be very surprised if towing storage wouldn't slow any mother
      ship down much more than carrying that load in the mother ship. The only reason I can see for towing storage would be to remove flammables from the mother ship, or because there was no room to store the items on the mother ship.
      > >
      > > I've towed an 8' pram, 8' planing dinghy, and a Bolger Tortoise. Only
      the Tortoise towed tolerably, and it noticeably slowed the boat. The other two were like a sea anchor. Bolger says his Light Dory tows well, but... towing crap slows you down. Do it only if you have no better choice.
      > > Eric
      > >

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