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Re: Out and sailing quickly?

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  • templeagogo
    Not in Asia - yep. No craiglist give-aways here. Also, anything imported to Thailand has a 100-200% import duty. THere are plastic boats here, but hate
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 10, 2010
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      "Not in Asia" - yep. No craiglist give-aways here. Also, anything imported to Thailand has a 100-200% import duty. THere are plastic boats here, but hate them. I also just feel more at home on something I built. Add in that I can finance over the length of constuction by using each pay check to buy supplies instead of having to save, and that is how I arrived at building. These are all good suggestions on models. Thanks!

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Not sure which building method you would consider cheaper and quicker.
      >
      > By far, the quickest and cheapest way to get out sailing is to buy one
      > of those cheap unloved fiberglass boats that people essentially give
      > away on Craigslist, etc. I bought one for $50, cut it into chunks
      > using a SawsAll to dump it, and kept the trailer.
      >
      > The only reasons to build a boat is that you have some special
      > requirement that cannot be met by the standard boats (being wheelchair
      > bound, etc.), or if you like building boats! I am in the latter
      > group, I like building boats for the sake of building boats.
      >
    • Matthew L
      I don t think you ve really told us enough about your needs to make a useful recommendation. Shallow water and about the size of Macgregor still leaves a lot
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 13, 2010
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        I don't think you've really told us enough about your needs to make a useful recommendation. Shallow water and about the size of Macgregor still leaves a lot of options. How many bunks do you need, if any? What kind of sailing? More sail, more motor, lots of wind, little wind, long rips, short ones?

        If the boat is intended as a floating weekend hope then PCB has a couple of little houseboat designs that might work, including Super Brick, which can even sail and motor after a fashion. See http://www.pdracer.com/hullcnfg/sbrick.jpg.

        For the use you describe, a modes powerboat might be a good bet. I have in mind something like a Bolger Tennessee fitted with a permanent canopy with role down screens and/or canvas sides to extend the living space. See http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/tenn.htm for some ideas.

        I agree with the suggestion to look at Jim Michalak's larger designs as well as PCB's work.

        Good luck!

        Matthew
      • Peter
        ... The Bolger Fast Motorsailer is pretty close to being a home-built Macgregor. See: http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/fms.htm (This example does not have the
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 14, 2010
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          > Shallow water and about the size of Macgregor
          > still leaves a lot of options.

          The Bolger Fast Motorsailer is pretty close to being a home-built Macgregor. See: http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/fms.htm (This example does not have the rig.)

          For my taste, the Fast Motorsailer has much better ergonomics that any Macgregor, but the sailing rig would take some getting used to.
        • prairiedog2332
          The FMS sailing rig was later upgraded to a gaff with self-tending jib (requiring stays), dual rudders and two leeboards.
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 14, 2010
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            The FMS sailing rig was later upgraded to a gaff with self-tending jib
            (requiring stays), dual rudders and two leeboards.

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/Fast%20Motor\
            %20Sailer%20%23601/

            Not nearly as "handy" or trailerable though. More likely a full-time
            slip required.

            In e-mail discussions with Michalak it points out a major failing of
            this type of design. It won't plane well with the sail rig interference
            and without a very big motor nor sail well dragging that heavy stern.

            16 mph not all that bad, but that is maybe with the 70 wide-open.

            Nels

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Shallow water and about the size of Macgregor
            > > still leaves a lot of options.
            >
            > The Bolger Fast Motorsailer is pretty close to being a home-built
            Macgregor. See: http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/fms.htm (This example
            does not have the rig.)
            >
            > For my taste, the Fast Motorsailer has much better ergonomics that any
            Macgregor, but the sailing rig would take some getting used to.
            >
          • daschultz2000
            And the FMS is 4 shorter making for easier trailering and storage. IMO the rig is reasonable since it is on a motorsailer where one expects to spend
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 15, 2010
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              And the FMS is 4' shorter making for easier trailering and storage. IMO the rig is reasonable since it is on a motorsailer where one expects to spend significant time under power.

              Don

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Shallow water and about the size of Macgregor
              > > still leaves a lot of options.
              >
              > The Bolger Fast Motorsailer is pretty close to being a home-built Macgregor...
              >
              > For my taste, the Fast Motorsailer has much better ergonomics that any Macgregor, but the sailing rig would take some getting used to.
              >
            • gary
              A balanced lug would seem like a more logical alternative to the dipping lug -- self tending, no standing rigging needed, easy to reef. Gary
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 15, 2010
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                A balanced lug would seem like a more logical alternative to the dipping lug -- self tending, no standing rigging needed, easy to reef.

                Gary


                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
                >
                > The FMS sailing rig was later upgraded to a gaff with self-tending jib
                > (requiring stays), dual rudders and two leeboards.
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/Fast%20Motor\
                > %20Sailer%20%23601/
                >
                > Not nearly as "handy" or trailerable though. More likely a full-time
                > slip required.
                >
                > In e-mail discussions with Michalak it points out a major failing of
                > this type of design. It won't plane well with the sail rig interference
                > and without a very big motor nor sail well dragging that heavy stern.
                >
                > 16 mph not all that bad, but that is maybe with the 70 wide-open.
                >
                > Nels
                >
              • captreed@sbcglobal.net
                ... You, Lugnut....I agree. Reed
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 15, 2010
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gbship@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > A balanced lug would seem like a more logical alternative to the dipping lug -- self tending, no standing rigging needed, easy to reef.
                  >
                  > Gary

                  You, Lugnut....I agree.

                  Reed
                • Bruce Hallman
                  ... For the best discussion of the advantages of the various lug rigs, I really recommend reading the lug rig chapters in Bolger s book _103 Sailing Rigs_. At
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 16, 2010
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                    > You, Lugnut....I agree.


                    For the best discussion of the advantages of the various lug rigs, I
                    really recommend reading the lug rig chapters in Bolger's book _103
                    Sailing Rigs_. At the root, lug sails are favored 'working sails' due
                    to their simplicity, economy and rugged toughness. This is opposed to
                    the high performance stayed sail rigs, (like most modern sloop rigs)
                    which essentially are meant to cheat racing committee rules at the
                    expense of complexity and cost.
                  • gary
                    Right on, Bruce. That s probably the best source of information around. Funny, there are books and books on the Chinese lug, but almost nothing but Bolger s
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 16, 2010
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                      Right on, Bruce. That's probably the best source of information around. Funny, there are books and books on the Chinese lug, but almost nothing but Bolger's writings on the other lug rigs. Even small details in these chapters can show a lot, even if not explicitly written about. For example, Bolger show more of the foot of the dipping lug extending in front of the mast that with the balanced lug, and I found when switching from a dippling to a balance lug that does make a difference.

                      Gary


                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > You, Lugnut....I agree.
                      >
                      >
                      > For the best discussion of the advantages of the various lug rigs, I
                      > really recommend reading the lug rig chapters in Bolger's book _103
                      > Sailing Rigs_. At the root, lug sails are favored 'working sails' due
                      > to their simplicity, economy and rugged toughness. This is opposed to
                      > the high performance stayed sail rigs, (like most modern sloop rigs)
                      > which essentially are meant to cheat racing committee rules at the
                      > expense of complexity and cost.
                      >
                    • Eric
                      Spritsails and Lugsails by John Leather is a very good source as well. http://www.amazon.com/Spritsails-Lugsails-John-Leather/dp/0877429987 His book on the
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 16, 2010
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                        Spritsails and Lugsails by John Leather is a very good source as well. http://www.amazon.com/Spritsails-Lugsails-John-Leather/dp/0877429987 His book on the gaff rig is even better. http://www.amazon.com/Gaff-Rig-Handbook-Techniques-Developments/dp/1408114402/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1292555278&sr=1-1 Bolger's book 101 Small Boat Rigs is absolutely necessary if one cares to ponder rig options rationally.
                        Eric


                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gbship@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Right on, Bruce. That's probably the best source of information around. Funny, there are books and books on the Chinese lug, but almost nothing but Bolger's writings on the other lug rigs. Even small details in these chapters can show a lot, even if not explicitly written about. For example, Bolger show more of the foot of the dipping lug extending in front of the mast that with the balanced lug, and I found when switching from a dippling to a balance lug that does make a difference.
                        >
                        > Gary
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > You, Lugnut....I agree.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > For the best discussion of the advantages of the various lug rigs, I
                        > > really recommend reading the lug rig chapters in Bolger's book _103
                        > > Sailing Rigs_. At the root, lug sails are favored 'working sails' due
                        > > to their simplicity, economy and rugged toughness. This is opposed to
                        > > the high performance stayed sail rigs, (like most modern sloop rigs)
                        > > which essentially are meant to cheat racing committee rules at the
                        > > expense of complexity and cost.
                        > >
                        >
                        http://www.amazon.com/Spritsails-Lugsails-John-Leather/dp/0877429987
                      • captreed@sbcglobal.net
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 16, 2010
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                          <For example, Bolger show more of the foot of the dipping lug extending <in front of the mast that with the balanced lug, and I found when <switching from a dippling to a balance lug that does make a difference.

                          How does this make a difference Gary?

                          Lots of books and groups on Chinese junks and few about Lugs. Its a puzzlement when a balanced lug will go windward so much better.

                          Reed
                        • gary
                          ... When I converted from the dipping to the balanced lugger, a boom was added to the sail and everthing else remained the same, including the length of the
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 17, 2010
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                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..." <captreed@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > <For example, Bolger show more of the foot of the dipping lug extending <in front of the mast that with the balanced lug, and I found when <switching from a dippling to a balance lug that does make a difference.
                            >
                            > How does this make a difference Gary?
                            >
                            > Lots of books and groups on Chinese junks and few about Lugs. Its a puzzlement when a balanced lug will go windward so much better.
                            >
                            > Reed
                            >
                            When I converted from the dipping to the balanced lugger, a boom was added to the sail and everthing else remained the same, including the length of the foot in front of the mast. The boat reached and ran well, but hard on the wind it was stodgy. Couldn't figure it out until I checked Bolger's book and noticed that the balanced lug didn't extend as far in front of the mast along the foot as the dipping lug did. The downhaul was moved forward on the boom (reducing the length of the foot forward of the mast) and -- voila! -- windward performace was drmatically improved. Chuck over at Duckworks says he can slide the downhaul back and forth on a balanced lug and it will find a sweet spot for windward work. I've also sometimes followed his example on smaller balanced lugs of having a forward location for the downhaul for days with mostly windward work and a slightly further aft location for days with mostly off-wind work. That helps reduce some of the weather helm when a balanced lug is eased on a reach or run (raising the centerboard or leeboard also helps . . .)

                            Gary
                          • captreed@sbcglobal.net
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 18, 2010
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                              <having a forward location for the downhaul for days with mostly <windward work and a slightly further aft location for days with mostly <off-wind work.

                              Hmmm, I should play with this on my lugs.

                              Thanks Gary.

                              Reed
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