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Re: [bolger] Littoral Combat Ship

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the Littoral Combat Ship is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F. As explained by Mike Bosworth during
    Message 1 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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      On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Reading a recent article on Robert Gates, I was intrigued by mention of this program. Poking around here, there seems a lot that might just as well have spawned from our favorite design team.
      >
      > http://tinyurl.com/352vp5z


      I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the Littoral Combat Ship
      is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F. As explained by Mike
      Bosworth during the 2009 Bolger memorial, the three PB&F projects were
      called 1) "SACPAS - Security Assistance Contingency Producible
      Affordable System", 2) prototype work on replacement concepts for the
      "LCAC - Landing Craft Air Cushion" and 3) prototype work for the
      Global Fleet Station project with an affordable patrol craft.

      See this letter:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3943182350/in/set-72157622428568580/
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3942404213/in/set-72157622428568580/
    • Fred Schumacher
      The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat shippable by standard container. Did PB&F come up with a boat that would fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping
      Message 2 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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        The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat "shippable by standard container." Did PB&F come up with a boat that would fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping container? It's maximum dimensions would have to be under 7.5'x7.5'x19.5' (or 39.5'). The most comfortable way to cross an ocean is to ship the boat in a container and meet it on the other side. Container shipping costs are comparatively low.

        fred s.

        On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:



        I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the Littoral Combat Ship
        is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F. As explained by Mike
        Bosworth during the 2009 Bolger memorial, the three PB&F projects were
        called 1) "SACPAS - Security Assistance Contingency Producible
        Affordable System", 2) prototype work on replacement concepts for the
        "LCAC - Landing Craft Air Cushion" and 3) prototype work for the
        Global Fleet Station project with an affordable patrol craft.

        See this letter:

        http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3943182350/in/set-72157622428568580/
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3942404213/in/set-72157622428568580/

      • Christopher C. Wetherill
        Certainly couldn t replace an LCAC with something that fits in a container. Perhaps something on the order of a big RIB?
        Message 3 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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          Certainly couldn't replace an LCAC with something that fits in a container.  Perhaps something on the order of a big RIB?

          On 10/22/2010 1:58 PM, Fred Schumacher wrote: The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat "shippable by standard container." Did PB&F come up with a boat that would fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping container? It's maximum dimensions would have to be under 7.5'x7.5'x19.5' (or 39.5'). The most comfortable way to cross an ocean is to ship the boat in a container and meet it on the other side. Container shipping costs are comparatively low.

          fred s.

          On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:



          I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the Littoral Combat Ship
          is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F. As explained by Mike
          Bosworth during the 2009 Bolger memorial, the three PB&F projects were
          called 1) "SACPAS - Security Assistance Contingency Producible
          Affordable System", 2) prototype work on replacement concepts for the
          "LCAC - Landing Craft Air Cushion" and 3) prototype work for the
          Global Fleet Station project with an affordable patrol craft.

          See this letter:

          http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3943182350/in/set-72157622428568580/
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3942404213/in/set-72157622428568580/

        • Pierce Nichols
          There s are at least a couple of containerable yachts on the market... they tend to either waste some of the space (http://www.radicalyachts.com/) or look an
          Message 4 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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            There's are at least a couple of containerable yachts on the market... they tend to either waste some of the space (http://www.radicalyachts.com/) or look an awful lot like a Bolger box (http://www.containeryachts.com/). A containerable patrol boat, something like the river boats of the Vietnam era, seems pretty natural.

            -p

            On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:


            The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat "shippable by standard container." Did PB&F come up with a boat that would fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping container? It's maximum dimensions would have to be under 7.5'x7.5'x19.5' (or 39.5'). The most comfortable way to cross an ocean is to ship the boat in a container and meet it on the other side. Container shipping costs are comparatively low.

            fred s.


            On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:



            I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the Littoral Combat Ship
            is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F. As explained by Mike
            Bosworth during the 2009 Bolger memorial, the three PB&F projects were
            called 1) "SACPAS - Security Assistance Contingency Producible
            Affordable System", 2) prototype work on replacement concepts for the
            "LCAC - Landing Craft Air Cushion" and 3) prototype work for the
            Global Fleet Station project with an affordable patrol craft.

            See this letter:

            http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3943182350/in/set-72157622428568580/
            http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3942404213/in/set-72157622428568580/




          • Bruce Hallman
            ... My speculation is that a boat similar to the Advanced Fisherman 30 30ftx7 8 could be fitted inside a shipping container and serve the purpose of a
            Message 5 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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              On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat "shippable by standard container." Did PB&F come up with a boat that would fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping container?

              My speculation is that a boat similar to the "Advanced Fisherman 30"
              30ftx7'8" could be fitted inside a shipping container and serve the
              purpose of a simple, easily built, patrol boat/fishing boat for third
              world ports. See the MAIB articles May/June 2008.
            • Christopher C. Wetherill
              How about This: LCPL The summer camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of these.
              Message 6 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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                How about This: LCPL  The summer camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of these.

                On 10/22/2010 3:26 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
                On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
                
                
                
                The Bosworth letter in the link mentions a boat "shippable by standard container." Did PB&F come up with a boat that would fit inside a 20 or 40 foot shipping container?
                
                My speculation is that a boat similar to the "Advanced Fisherman 30"
                30ftx7'8" could be fitted inside a shipping container and serve the
                purpose of a simple, easily built, patrol boat/fishing boat for third
                world ports.  See the MAIB articles May/June 2008.
                
                
                ------------------------------------
                
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              • Mark Albanese
                Bruce, I wasn t particularly hoping to convince you of that, just noting some correspondence in point of view: Highly focussed on the requirements; unique
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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                  Bruce,

                  I wasn't particularly hoping to convince you of that, just noting some correspondence in point of view: Highly focussed on the requirements; unique conception, but with an eye to tradition; economical, versatile to beat all. Bow on, that trimaran just about out Bolgers Bolger.

                  Something smaller, container sized, seems more appropriate. Yet the letter shows the PB&F projects were partly to, "Encourage fresh viewpoints and innovation from our more typical USN designers." The time frame seems about right. Perhaps they did.

                  No hits yet from google on Virginia's SACPAS, though it is said to have been built. The LCS itself looks, "( Monitor derived )."

                  Mark  



                  I might be wrong, but I am not convinced that the Littoral Combat Ship
                  is the same Navy project worked on by PB&F. As explained by Mike
                  Bosworth during the 2009 Bolger memorial, the three PB&F projects were
                  called 1) "SACPAS - Security Assistance Contingency Producible
                  Affordable System", 2) prototype work on replacement concepts for the
                  "LCAC - Landing Craft Air Cushion" and 3) prototype work for the
                  Global Fleet Station project with an affordable patrol craft.

                  See this letter:

                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3943182350/in/set-72157622428568580/
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3942404213/in/set-72157622428568580/


                • Mark Albanese
                  I d have one of those myself!
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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                    I'd have one of those myself!

                    On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:

                     

                    How about This: LCPL  The summer camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of these.


                  • Christopher C. Wetherill
                    It was pretty cool. Had the standard Screamin Jimmy DDA 6-71. Couldn t ski tho.
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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                      It was pretty cool.  Had the standard "Screamin' Jimmy" DDA 6-71.  Couldn't ski tho.

                      On 10/22/2010 5:30 PM, Mark Albanese wrote: I'd have one of those myself!

                      On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:

                       

                      How about This: LCPL  The summer camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of these.


                    • Paul Esterle
                      Dad called em Higgins boats . He landed at Port lauatey in North Africa in one of them... Paul Esterle Freelance Boating Writer Capt n Pauley s Place The
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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                        Dad called 'em "Higgins boats". He landed at Port lauatey in North
                        Africa in one of them...


                        Paul Esterle
                        Freelance Boating Writer
                        "Capt'n Pauley's Place"
                        The Virtual Boatyard
                        www.thevirtualboatyard.com

                        On 10/22/2010 5:33 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > It was pretty cool. Had the standard "Screamin' Jimmy" DDA 6-71.
                        > Couldn't ski tho.
                        >
                        > On 10/22/2010 5:30 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
                        >
                        >> I'd have one of those myself!
                        >>
                        >> On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
                        >>
                        >>> How about This: LCPL <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCPL> The summer
                        >>> camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of these.
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >
                      • Christopher C. Wetherill
                        Indeed They were called Eureka by Higgins in the 30s. They also provided the hull form for the LCVP see here .
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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                          Indeed They were called  Eureka by Higgins in the '30s.  They also provided the hull form for the LCVP see here.  btw I note from this site that my memory as to power was incorrect.  They had 225 hp Gray diesels.

                          On 10/22/2010 5:38 PM, Paul Esterle wrote:
                          Dad called 'em "Higgins boats". He landed at Port lauatey in North 
                          Africa in one of them...
                          
                          
                          Paul Esterle
                          Freelance Boating Writer
                          "Capt'n Pauley's Place"
                          The Virtual Boatyard
                          www.thevirtualboatyard.com
                          
                          On 10/22/2010 5:33 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
                          
                          
                          It was pretty cool. Had the standard "Screamin' Jimmy" DDA 6-71.
                          Couldn't ski tho.
                          
                          On 10/22/2010 5:30 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
                          
                          
                          I'd have one of those myself!
                          
                          On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
                          
                          
                          How about This: LCPL <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCPL> The summer
                          camp I went to at the age of 12 had one of these.
                          
                          
                          
                          ------------------------------------
                          
                          Bolger rules!!!
                          - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
                          - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                          - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts 
                          - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                          - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                          - Unsubscribe:  bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                          
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                        • Bruce Hallman
                          ... At the 2009 memorial I talked with Mike Bosworth about the landing craft and it has been a years time passed so I forget some of the details. This was
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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                            > No hits yet from google on Virginia's SACPAS, though it is said to have been built. The LCS itself looks, "( Monitor derived )."
                            > Mark


                            At the 2009 memorial I talked with Mike Bosworth about the landing
                            craft and it has been a years time passed so I forget some of the
                            details. This was 'big picture' preliminary research for the navy
                            they were doing. One of the constraints was that the landing craft
                            needed to be shipped around the world within existing naval freight
                            ships, and that the maximum dimensions were determined by the the
                            cargo vessel sizes. To achieve additional length (and hence, hull
                            speed), I recall they were considering folding the boat like with
                            Folding Schooner, Insolent60 or PerfectSkiff'08.
                          • John Huft
                            I think what you re looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV).  It even has a folding nose.  Here s a picture of it on a trailer with the nose folded. 
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 22, 2010
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                              I think what you're looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV).  It even has a folding nose.  Here's a picture of it on a trailer with the nose folded.  http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/vsv2.jpg  It looks like a Sneakeasy on steroids to me.  I'll guarantee it'll fit in a Special Ops C-130.
                              John Boy

                               

                               

                              ."It's the tides, man.  They can either work for you or they can work against you... 
                              Confidentially, I've had this problem with the tides before."
                              --Captain Ron



                              From: Bruce Hallman <hallman@...>
                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 6:36:37 PM
                              Subject: Re: [bolger] Re:Littoral Combat Ship

                               

                              > No hits yet from google on Virginia's SACPAS, though it is said to have been built. The LCS itself looks, "( Monitor derived )."
                              > Mark

                              At the 2009 memorial I talked with Mike Bosworth about the landing
                              craft and it has been a years time passed so I forget some of the
                              details. This was 'big picture' preliminary research for the navy
                              they were doing. One of the constraints was that the landing craft
                              needed to be shipped around the world within existing naval freight
                              ships, and that the maximum dimensions were determined by the the
                              cargo vessel sizes. To achieve additional length (and hence, hull
                              speed), I recall they were considering folding the boat like with
                              Folding Schooner, Insolent60 or PerfectSkiff'08.

                            • Fred Schumacher
                              ... I did work up some sketches for Wooden Boats latest fuel efficient boat design contest, but never submitted them. My design was based on Sneakeasy, but
                              Message 14 of 24 , Oct 23, 2010
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                                On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:00 PM, John Huft <t1ro2003@...> wrote:
                                 

                                I think what you're looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV).  It even has a folding nose.  Here's a picture of it on a trailer with the nose folded.  http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/vsv2.jpg  It looks like a Sneakeasy on steroids to me.  I'll guarantee it'll fit in a Special Ops C-130.
                                John Boy
                                 
                                I did work up some sketches for Wooden Boats' latest fuel efficient boat design contest, but never submitted them. My design was based on Sneakeasy, but with a tunnel stern (I want to use it on a river with snags & half submerged logs), and folding over, like Perfect Skiff, so that it would fit on a 12 foot trailer (because that's what I've got on hand). There's a lot of potential in Bolger designs to adapt them to all kinds of uses. The simplicity inherent in the design concepts Bolger developed makes his work a treasure trove for future experimentation and adaptation.
                                 
                                fred s.
                              • Fred Schumacher
                                ... The more I look at the photos at http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/ the more it seems to have Bolger written all over it. The VSV appears to be
                                Message 15 of 24 , Oct 23, 2010
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                                  On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:00 PM, John Huft <t1ro2003@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  I think what you're looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV). 
                                   
                                  The more I look at the photos at http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/ the more it seems to have Bolger written all over it. The VSV appears to be based on a rounded box keel with sponsons. The sponson hull meets the water line at about hull midpoint. It is like the box keel Sneakeasy (with dreadnought wave piercing cutwater) but lengthened.
                                   
                                  This would make a good patrol boat in pirate waters. Several of these in camouflage paint, with radar on telescoping poles, and supplied by a mother ship, could patrol a large area with quicker response time than standard naval craft. With their low profile, they would be virtually invisible.
                                   
                                  fred s.
                                • Eric
                                  Even if the Navy doesn t want it it would make a very good drug runner. All those sloping topsides are for radar stealth. This would be a very hard to detect
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Oct 24, 2010
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                                    Even if the Navy doesn't want it it would make a very good drug runner. All those sloping topsides are for radar stealth. This would be a very hard to detect vessel. If it leaves as little wake as Sneakeasy, virtually undetectable even from the air or satellite. I expect well see boats like this in operation.



                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:00 PM, John Huft <t1ro2003@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> I think what you're looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV).
                                    > >>
                                    > >
                                    > The more I look at the photos at http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/ the
                                    > more it seems to have Bolger written all over it. The VSV appears to be
                                    > based on a rounded box keel with sponsons. The sponson hull meets the water
                                    > line at about hull midpoint. It is like the box keel Sneakeasy (with
                                    > dreadnought wave piercing cutwater) but lengthened.
                                    >
                                    > This would make a good patrol boat in pirate waters. Several of these in
                                    > camouflage paint, with radar on telescoping poles, and supplied by a mother
                                    > ship, could patrol a large area with quicker response time than standard
                                    > naval craft. With their low profile, they would be virtually invisible.
                                    >
                                    > fred s.
                                    >
                                  • Samantha Roberts
                                    ... From: Eric Subject: [bolger] Re:Littoral Combat Ship To: bolger@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 24, 2010, 9:51 AM   Even if
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Oct 24, 2010
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                                      --- On Sun, 10/24/10, Eric <eric14850@...> wrote:

                                      From: Eric <eric14850@...>
                                      Subject: [bolger] Re:Littoral Combat Ship
                                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Sunday, October 24, 2010, 9:51 AM

                                       

                                      Even if the Navy doesn't want it it would make a very good drug runner. All those sloping topsides are for radar stealth. This would be a very hard to detect vessel. If it leaves as little wake as Sneakeasy, virtually undetectable even from the air or satellite. I expect well see boats like this in operation.

                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:00 PM, John Huft <t1ro2003@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> I think what you're looking for is the Very Slender Vessel (VSV).
                                      > >>
                                      > >
                                      > The more I look at the photos at http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/ the
                                      > more it seems to have Bolger written all over it. The VSV appears to be
                                      > based on a rounded box keel with sponsons. The sponson hull meets the water
                                      > line at about hull midpoint. It is like the box keel Sneakeasy (with
                                      > dreadnought wave piercing cutwater) but lengthened.
                                      >
                                      > This would make a good patrol boat in pirate waters. Several of these in
                                      > camouflage paint, with radar on telescoping poles, and supplied by a mother
                                      > ship, could patrol a large area with quicker response time than standard
                                      > naval craft. With their low profile, they would be virtually invisible.
                                      >
                                      > fred s.
                                      >


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