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Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?

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  • BllFs6@aol.com
    Me thinks you should just give him his money back. Not because I think he is right. It would just give him one less thing to bitch about (maybe). And free you
    Message 1 of 58 , Oct 3, 2010
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      Me thinks you should just give him his money back. Not because I think he is right. It would just give him one less thing to bitch about (maybe). And free you as well. Unless he dropped a couple grand your way for a design, I suspect he is the type that expects way too much bang for way too little buck (and I say that as cheap fart myself).
      Some of the best people I have ever met are "old farts". Then again, some of the absolute worst people I have met are "old farts". Sometimes there is no pleasing or reasoning with one of the bad ones.
      Just my two cents.
      Blll "hopes to be one of the good old farts one day" Fish.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Susanne@... <philbolger@...>
      To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sun, Oct 3, 2010 11:54 am
      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?

      Hello All,
           on the NANO issue referred to by "grover".  While we expected to be done with them by the time the MAIB article came out, the plans are not finished - close enough - but not finished.  He knows it and I could send him unfinished plans but that might not be a good idea either...

      To a certain extent he has point - like quite a few folks who are waiting.  But based on the hull of FLYING CLOUD, that hull would be immediately buildable should there actually be an urgent project on his agenda.  Were that assembly on-going, I would try to reprioritize hard realities on this end to get him what he needs.  But I have no indication that such an actual project is planned. 

      He has my sympathy to a certain extent.  But the situation is what it is.

      As to the language in such discussions, 'it is the Internet' with often funky names and at times decidely mysterious codes of civility...  Phil Bolger's legacy is way more robust. 

      Susanne Altenburger, PB&F  
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: c.ruzer
      Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:54 PM
      Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?



      it's great to hear you're gaining strength, and that progress is being made. More power to you!

      In so far as 'normal' and your query about overlooking anybody are concerned, have you addressed the 'grover' libel as published by your competitor plan seller, Duckworks Inc?


      The 4th item down reads:

      "DUCKWORKS 2010
      Tuesday, August 31, 2010
      September Letters

      More Advise Wanted & Given

      I need your advise. I commisioned Philip Bolger in dec of 2009 to do a very small birdwatcher type boat. I believe it was his last complete set of plans and the details were published in maib. His wife and he even referred to me in the article. The boat is known as the Nano. I have made every type of reasonable attempt to get what I paid for. I have talked to maib publisher... he will do nothing. she is dishonest and has defamed the good name of Mr. Bolger. I am going to start a campaign on every internet site I can find telling this sorry tale. I do not want to do this. I am old and not in good health and so many friends and family are dying. I just want what i paid for... the plans. Do you have any advise, please.
      ps... be very careful of any dealings w/ susan attenburger[sp]Mr Bolger's widow"

      Susanne, I looked it up in MAIB here:

      MAIB Vol 27 No 2, June 2009, page 42.
      Bolger On Design
      Nano Cruiser
      Water Beetle 10
      Design #680

      5th paragraph:
      "Fast forward to last December when an old client wrote from Texas that he wanted "a brick with a Birdwatcher top." As usual we were behind on all sorts of matters, somewhat exhausted and down from wrestling with too many things for too long. So we thought it would be a therapeutic diversion from matters much more serious in serious times to make a quick drawing showing how a Flying Cloud hull could be modified into a cruiser?!...

      ...Plans of NanoCruiser Water Beetle-10, our Design #680, are available for $125 to build one boat, sent priority mail..."

      The MAIB BOD article includes 2 photos of PCB sailing Flying Cloud, and 1 reproduced sheet showing profile, layout, and optional sailplans.

      The 'grover' claims published by Duckworks Inc in the undated 'letter' may pehaps be true, and have some legal if not moral defence to charges of libel and consequent damages. Perhaps this fellow, grover, did commission the design. Perhaps he paid in advance for same, and perhaps more than the quoted $125 plans price? If so he has his years, 08/09, a little mixed up, but perhaps he has actually been overlooked by PB&F? Duckworks, a competitor in the boat plans retail market, will continue to make a meal of out of this kind of thing as they have in the past.

      People pop up in various yahoo groups advising others to stay well clear of PB&F. They recount 'friends' cautionary horror stories. This duckworks story has gotten some traction instead of retraction.

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susanne@..." <philbolger@...> wrote:
      > Hello All,
      > I hope I am up to date now...?!
      > It seems that I'll be able to share Phil Bolger's (and my) thinking on the Commercial Fisheries before a rather untypical audience; Phil would be tickled... I will offer details later.
      > Gaining strength and sleeping rythms - takes long... - and tackling one must-do after the other (as most of us have to...). Things won't be 'normal' for a good while - if ever. But progress is being made.
      > Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

    • Eric
      Nels, Of course stock plans should be mailed in a reasonable amount of time if the business is able to. For the past year it has not been able to. As for
      Message 58 of 58 , Oct 7, 2010
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        Of course stock plans should be mailed in a reasonable amount of time if the business is able to. For the past year it has not been able to.

        As for commissions. Ask anyone who has dealt with an artist. Even with the best of intentions an artist cannot necessarily finish commissions in the order they are received. Some are begun with an obsessive inspiration are not a full enough expression to carry to completion. If you think it is any less frustrating to the artist than to the person who has commissioned the art you are wrong. Committing to a themed gallery show when the work is not already existent, is a sure way to disaster, usually fudging to get by and have something to fill the space.

        A Mr. Cunningham asked Phil to design the AS-29 quite a few years before Phil was inspired to design the AS-29. At least the words Cunningham wrote were nearly identical to my own and the AS-29 is the boat I was going to ask Phil to design. Phil's response in SBJ was classic Phil, and floored me. ROGUE's interior is in function and many respects layout nearly identical to AS-29. What is to get mad about? Other things were inspiring Phil, and some of those boats have been built and have given people pleasure. Phil's design work has inspired other designers. I felt mighty discouraged reading Phil's response to Mr. Cunningham, but I certainly didn't feel any animosity. Later I felt irony that he did design the AS-29, but anger, no.

        My response was to order more design books, and read and re-read again all the books I had. In the end I wanted a Bolger boat, and because he wouldn't design the boat I wanted, I radically modified a Bolger hull form and liberally drew from a whole boat load of Bolger ideas in my making the boat I wanted.

        The people who are not getting their designs fast enough can stop the process and try another designer. Can try their own hand and show their ideas to perhaps inspire results. Or they can be patient. In his books Phil shows at least on boat design that did not work because of too much effort and too little inspiration, and though commissioned and no doubt paid for, was never built.

        As for character, there is an award winning power boat design that Phil discouraged a potential buyer from pursuing because Phil did not think the boat would be a good investment. Phil lost a commission for a design. And the waters were not graced with an inspired design.

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
        > Bruce,
        > I have to wonder how offering plans for sale in MAIB does not suggest
        > some sort of obligation to send them once they are ordered? Or at least
        > respond to inquiries about them. Or do you suggest one just send the
        > money and hope they show up sometime?
        > And as for patience, how long until a person might get the feeling they
        > are being ignored? Five years? Ten?
        > I think most of us who have been a devotee of Bolger and SBJ and later
        > MAIB for what 20-25 years (including John Kohnen) own or have lusted
        > after Mr. Bolger's books (now out of print except for one) are well
        > aware of the trials and tribulations of PCB&F. This includes the
        > military contract and the devotion to keeping the fishing industry
        > viable.
        > What really bothers some of us is how some commissions jump the queue
        > and get completed (Becky Thatcher) and others like the I60 and Auriga
        > are ignored to this day!
        > John Kolb - who has built many Bolger boats is still awaiting his Auriga
        > plans and has built the Fast Brick to go with it - which lies useless in
        > his shop. Reality is he is getting on in years now and has given up the
        > project last I heard.
        > Nels
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@> wrote:
        > > The second implies that it is "wrong" that SA is not making the life
        > > work of PCB and PB&F more easily available to the public. Actually,
        > > she has no obligation that I can see to make those designs available
        > > to us. I see nothing wrong with having to wait to get something we
        > > don't own. We should be grateful for what we get and try to find more
        > > patience.
        > >
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