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Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug

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  • Gordon Couger
    Putting solid plugs in properly sized hollow mast are a good way to cause the mast to fail at the end of the plug. If forms a stress riser. The proper way to
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
      Putting solid plugs in properly sized hollow mast are a good way to cause
      the mast to fail at the end of the plug. If forms a stress riser.

      The proper way to strengthen a tube it with diamond shaped patches or
      layers of fiberglass that taper from each end to the middle.

      Gordon
      Gordon Couger gcouger@...
      Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
      405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
      To: <bolger@egroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:20 PM
      Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


      All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me convinced I
      need to put a plug in mine.

      No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug in it
      just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in thickened
      epoxy, drive plug in.

      The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the epoxy
      doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert four feet
      into a hollow wooden tube.

      Any suggestions from the collective?

      Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
      From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
    • Gordon Couger
      If you want to prevent crushing a diamond shaped metal plate will do a lot better than plug. The outer part of the mast will still crush. If you have crushing
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
        If you want to prevent crushing a diamond shaped metal plate will do a lot
        better than plug. The outer part of the mast will still crush. If you have
        crushing problems you should spread them over the mast.

        Take an broken fishing pole and epoxy a plug in it and bend it until it
        breaks. I bet you ten bucks it breaks at the end of the plug.

        Gordon
        Gordon Couger gcouger@...
        Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
        405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
        To: <bolger@egroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 6:53 PM
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


        > Gordon, David.
        >
        > I believe the failure mode is tube crushing, this is what the plug would
        > prevent. Don't think an external layer of epoxy/fiber of any reasonalble
        > thickness would help in this.
        >
        > The tube is plenty strong, was only going to try to prevent crushing at
        the
        > partner.
        >
        > On the other hand, I've had her out in some pretty strong wind with no
        > apparent problems. In addition, doug fir is quite a bit harder than
        spruce.
        > I may just ignore it, and build a solid one if it fails...
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Gordon Couger" <gcouger@...>
        > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 6:42 AM
        > Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
        >
        >
        > > Putting solid plugs in properly sized hollow mast are a good way to
        cause
        > > the mast to fail at the end of the plug. If forms a stress riser.
        > >
        > > The proper way to strengthen a tube it with diamond shaped patches or
        > > layers of fiberglass that taper from each end to the middle.
        > >
        > > Gordon
        > > Gordon Couger gcouger@...
        > > Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
        > > 405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
        > > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
        > > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:20 PM
        > > Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
        > >
        > >
        > > All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me
        convinced I
        > > need to put a plug in mine.
        > >
        > > No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug in
        it
        > > just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in
        thickened
        > > epoxy, drive plug in.
        > >
        > > The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the
        epoxy
        > > doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert four
        feet
        > > into a hollow wooden tube.
        > >
        > > Any suggestions from the collective?
        > >
        > > Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
        > > From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Bolger rules!!!
        > > - no cursing
        > > - stay on topic
        > > - use punctuation
        > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
        > > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - no cursing
        > - stay on topic
        > - use punctuation
        > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
        > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
        >
        >
      • Gordon Couger
        By a diamond shaped plate I mean a plate that conforms to the mast and tapers to a point on each end. Cut a diamond out of a piece of paper wiht the long axis
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
          By a diamond shaped plate I mean a plate that conforms to the mast and
          tapers to a point on each end. Cut a diamond out of a piece of paper wiht
          the long axis being at least 3 times the
          narrow axis. Bend the paper so it conforms wiht the mast. Epoxy or
          rivet(in the case of an alumium mast) the patch to the mast. All the
          contact from the boom or spar should contact the metal diamond. The
          diamond shape reduces the stress risers to a minim.

          There will still be a stiff spot in the mast but the stress will be
          distributed along the edge of the diamond patch and will be much less
          likely a place for the mast to break.

          Gordon
          Gordon Couger gcouger@...
          Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
          405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
          To: <bolger@egroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 8:48 PM
          Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


          > Can you describe a "diamond shaped metal plate"? Where would it be
          going?
          >
          > I agree with you that it would probably break at the end of the plug,
          this
          > is why I've pretty much reconsidered doing anything to it.
          >
          > It doesn't appear to have any crushing problems so far, and if it does
          snap,
          > I'm a daysailer, I'll troll home and make a solid mast.
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Gordon Couger" <gcouger@...>
          > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 7:18 AM
          > Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
          >
          >
          > > If you want to prevent crushing a diamond shaped metal plate will do a
          lot
          > > better than plug. The outer part of the mast will still crush. If you
          have
          > > crushing problems you should spread them over the mast.
          > >
          > > Take an broken fishing pole and epoxy a plug in it and bend it until
          it
          > > breaks. I bet you ten bucks it breaks at the end of the plug.
          > >
          > > Gordon
          > > Gordon Couger gcouger@...
          > > Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
          > > 405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
          > > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
          > > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 6:53 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
          > >
          > >
          > > > Gordon, David.
          > > >
          > > > I believe the failure mode is tube crushing, this is what the plug
          would
          > > > prevent. Don't think an external layer of epoxy/fiber of any
          reasonalble
          > > > thickness would help in this.
          > > >
          > > > The tube is plenty strong, was only going to try to prevent crushing
          at
          > > the
          > > > partner.
          > > >
          > > > On the other hand, I've had her out in some pretty strong wind with
          no
          > > > apparent problems. In addition, doug fir is quite a bit harder than
          > > spruce.
          > > > I may just ignore it, and build a solid one if it fails...
          > > >
          > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > From: "Gordon Couger" <gcouger@...>
          > > > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
          > > > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 6:42 AM
          > > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > > Putting solid plugs in properly sized hollow mast are a good way
          to
          > > cause
          > > > > the mast to fail at the end of the plug. If forms a stress riser.
          > > > >
          > > > > The proper way to strengthen a tube it with diamond shaped
          patches or
          > > > > layers of fiberglass that taper from each end to the middle.
          > > > >
          > > > > Gordon
          > > > > Gordon Couger gcouger@...
          > > > > Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
          > > > > 405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > > From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
          > > > > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
          > > > > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:20 PM
          > > > > Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me
          > > convinced I
          > > > > need to put a plug in mine.
          > > > >
          > > > > No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug
          in
          > > it
          > > > > just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in
          > > thickened
          > > > > epoxy, drive plug in.
          > > > >
          > > > > The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the
          > > epoxy
          > > > > doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert
          four
          > > feet
          > > > > into a hollow wooden tube.
          > > > >
          > > > > Any suggestions from the collective?
          > > > >
          > > > > Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
          > > > > From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Bolger rules!!!
          > > > > - no cursing
          > > > > - stay on topic
          > > > > - use punctuation
          > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
          > > > > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Bolger rules!!!
          > > > - no cursing
          > > > - stay on topic
          > > > - use punctuation
          > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
          > > > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Bolger rules!!!
          > > - no cursing
          > > - stay on topic
          > > - use punctuation
          > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
          > > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - no cursing
          > - stay on topic
          > - use punctuation
          > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
          > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
          >
          >
        • Orr, Jamie
          Sounds like an expensive plug, all that epoxy, but you could control it with a piece of closed cell foam, cut just bigger than the inside diameter, and pushed
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
            Sounds like an expensive plug, all that epoxy, but you could control it with
            a piece of closed cell foam, cut just bigger than the inside diameter, and
            pushed into place. That should keep the epoxy where you want it.

            Jamie Orr


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Richard Spelling [mailto:richard@...]
            Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 11:21 AM
            To: bolger@egroups.com
            Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug



            All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me convinced I
            need to put a plug in mine.

            No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug in it
            just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in thickened
            epoxy, drive plug in.

            The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the epoxy
            doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert four feet
            into a hollow wooden tube.

            Any suggestions from the collective?

            Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
            <http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats>
            From the muddy waters of Oklahoma

            _____

            <http://click.egroups.com/1/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/>
            <http://adimg.egroups.com/img/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/468x60new13.gif>

            _____

            Bolger rules!!!
            - no cursing
            - stay on topic
            - use punctuation
            - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
            - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
          • Richard Spelling
            Sorry, cut WOOD plug on table saw, expoxy in place. Shouldn t need more than a cup of epoxy, just enough to fill the gap between the wooden plug and the mast
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
              Sorry, cut WOOD plug on table saw, expoxy in place. Shouldn't need more than
              a cup of epoxy, just enough to fill the gap between the wooden plug and the
              mast walls.

              You think it would be liquid tite after being pushes four feet into the
              tube?

              Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
              From the muddy waters of Oklahoma

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...>
              To: <bolger@egroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:30 PM
              Subject: RE: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


              > Sounds like an expensive plug, all that epoxy, but you could control it
              with
              > a piece of closed cell foam, cut just bigger than the inside diameter, and
              > pushed into place. That should keep the epoxy where you want it.
              >
              > Jamie Orr
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Richard Spelling [mailto:richard@...]
              > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 11:21 AM
              > To: bolger@egroups.com
              > Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
              >
              >
              >
              > All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me convinced I
              > need to put a plug in mine.
              >
              > No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug in it
              > just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in thickened
              > epoxy, drive plug in.
              >
              > The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the epoxy
              > doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert four feet
              > into a hollow wooden tube.
              >
              > Any suggestions from the collective?
              >
              > Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
              > <http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats>
              > From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
              >
              > _____
              >
              > <http://click.egroups.com/1/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/>
              >
              <http://adimg.egroups.com/img/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/468x60new13.gif>
              >
              > _____
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - no cursing
              > - stay on topic
              > - use punctuation
              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
              > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - no cursing
              > - stay on topic
              > - use punctuation
              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
              > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
              >
            • Orr, Jamie
              Haven t tried it, but thickened epoxy shouldn t leak (I think!) You could test it with water -- if it leaks, push it out from the other end or pull it out
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
                Haven't tried it, but thickened epoxy shouldn't leak (I think!) You could
                test it with water -- if it leaks, push it out from the other end or pull it
                out with a barbed stick? You'd only lose the drying time.

                Mind you, if you are pushing it in a small hole and hoping it will expand as
                the mast diameter increases, kind of like foam ear plugs, you might want to
                test how well it will expand back to its normal shape before you stuff it in
                there.

                Or wait for a better idea!

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Richard Spelling [mailto:richard@...]
                Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 11:32 AM
                To: bolger@egroups.com
                Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


                Sorry, cut WOOD plug on table saw, expoxy in place. Shouldn't need more than
                a cup of epoxy, just enough to fill the gap between the wooden plug and the
                mast walls.

                You think it would be liquid tite after being pushes four feet into the
                tube?

                Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                From the muddy waters of Oklahoma

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...>
                To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:30 PM
                Subject: RE: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


                > Sounds like an expensive plug, all that epoxy, but you could control it
                with
                > a piece of closed cell foam, cut just bigger than the inside diameter, and
                > pushed into place. That should keep the epoxy where you want it.
                >
                > Jamie Orr
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Richard Spelling [mailto:richard@...]
                > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 11:21 AM
                > To: bolger@egroups.com
                > Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                >
                >
                >
                > All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me convinced I
                > need to put a plug in mine.
                >
                > No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug in it
                > just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in thickened
                > epoxy, drive plug in.
                >
                > The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the epoxy
                > doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert four feet
                > into a hollow wooden tube.
                >
                > Any suggestions from the collective?
                >
                > Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                > <http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats>
                > From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
                >
                > _____
                >
                > <http://click.egroups.com/1/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/>
                >
                <http://adimg.egroups.com/img/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/468x60new13.gif>
                >
                > _____
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - no cursing
                > - stay on topic
                > - use punctuation
                > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - no cursing
                > - stay on topic
                > - use punctuation
                > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                >




                Bolger rules!!!
                - no cursing
                - stay on topic
                - use punctuation
                - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
              • Richard Spelling
                A couple of thoughts... Water noodle might work pretty good. Say about a six inch section. Thickened epoxy has to be thin enough to flow around the plug.
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
                  A couple of thoughts...

                  Water noodle might work pretty good. Say about a six inch section.

                  "Thickened epoxy" has to be thin enough to flow around the plug. Will add
                  wood flour to get bulk, but still want it pretty watery.

                  Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                  From the muddy waters of Oklahoma

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...>
                  To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:49 PM
                  Subject: RE: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


                  > Haven't tried it, but thickened epoxy shouldn't leak (I think!) You could
                  > test it with water -- if it leaks, push it out from the other end or pull
                  it
                  > out with a barbed stick? You'd only lose the drying time.
                  >
                  > Mind you, if you are pushing it in a small hole and hoping it will expand
                  as
                  > the mast diameter increases, kind of like foam ear plugs, you might want
                  to
                  > test how well it will expand back to its normal shape before you stuff it
                  in
                  > there.
                  >
                  > Or wait for a better idea!
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Richard Spelling [mailto:richard@...]
                  > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 11:32 AM
                  > To: bolger@egroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                  >
                  >
                  > Sorry, cut WOOD plug on table saw, expoxy in place. Shouldn't need more
                  than
                  > a cup of epoxy, just enough to fill the gap between the wooden plug and
                  the
                  > mast walls.
                  >
                  > You think it would be liquid tite after being pushes four feet into the
                  > tube?
                  >
                  > Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                  > From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...>
                  > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                  > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:30 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                  >
                  >
                  > > Sounds like an expensive plug, all that epoxy, but you could control it
                  > with
                  > > a piece of closed cell foam, cut just bigger than the inside diameter,
                  and
                  > > pushed into place. That should keep the epoxy where you want it.
                  > >
                  > > Jamie Orr
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Richard Spelling [mailto:richard@...]
                  > > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 11:21 AM
                  > > To: bolger@egroups.com
                  > > Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me convinced
                  I
                  > > need to put a plug in mine.
                  > >
                  > > No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug in it
                  > > just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in
                  thickened
                  > > epoxy, drive plug in.
                  > >
                  > > The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the epoxy
                  > > doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert four
                  feet
                  > > into a hollow wooden tube.
                  > >
                  > > Any suggestions from the collective?
                  > >
                  > > Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                  > > <http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats>
                  > > From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > <http://click.egroups.com/1/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/>
                  > >
                  > <http://adimg.egroups.com/img/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/468x60new13.gif>
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > Bolger rules!!!
                  > > - no cursing
                  > > - stay on topic
                  > > - use punctuation
                  > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                  > > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Bolger rules!!!
                  > > - no cursing
                  > > - stay on topic
                  > > - use punctuation
                  > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                  > > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Bolger rules!!!
                  > - no cursing
                  > - stay on topic
                  > - use punctuation
                  > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                  > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Bolger rules!!!
                  > - no cursing
                  > - stay on topic
                  > - use punctuation
                  > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                  > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                  >
                • GHC
                  Why not push a sponge in first, add plug, then pour a cup of liquid on top? Gregg Carlson
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
                    Why not push a sponge in first, add plug, then pour a cup of liquid on top?

                    Gregg Carlson

                    At 01:32 PM 7/31/2000 -0500, you wrote:
                    >Sorry, cut WOOD plug on table saw, expoxy in place. Shouldn't need more than
                    >a cup of epoxy, just enough to fill the gap between the wooden plug and the
                    >mast walls.
                    >
                    >You think it would be liquid tite after being pushes four feet into the
                    >tube?
                    >
                    >Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                    >From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
                    >
                    >----- Original Message -----
                    >From: "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...>
                    >To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                    >Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:30 PM
                    >Subject: RE: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                    >
                    >
                    >> Sounds like an expensive plug, all that epoxy, but you could control it
                    >with
                    >> a piece of closed cell foam, cut just bigger than the inside diameter, and
                    >> pushed into place. That should keep the epoxy where you want it.
                    >>
                    >> Jamie Orr
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> -----Original Message-----
                    >> From: Richard Spelling [mailto:richard@...]
                    >> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 11:21 AM
                    >> To: bolger@egroups.com
                    >> Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me convinced I
                    >> need to put a plug in mine.
                    >>
                    >> No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug in it
                    >> just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in thickened
                    >> epoxy, drive plug in.
                    >>
                    >> The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the epoxy
                    >> doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert four feet
                    >> into a hollow wooden tube.
                    >>
                    >> Any suggestions from the collective?
                    >>
                    >> Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                    >> <http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats>
                    >> From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
                    >>
                    >> _____
                    >>
                    >> <http://click.egroups.com/1/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/>
                    >>
                    ><http://adimg.egroups.com/img/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/468x60new13.gif>
                    >>
                    >> _____
                    >>
                    >> Bolger rules!!!
                    >> - no cursing
                    >> - stay on topic
                    >> - use punctuation
                    >> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                    >> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Bolger rules!!!
                    >> - no cursing
                    >> - stay on topic
                    >> - use punctuation
                    >> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                    >> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Bolger rules!!!
                    >- no cursing
                    >- stay on topic
                    >- use punctuation
                    >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                    >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                    >
                    >
                  • lm2
                    I seem to have come in on the end of this thread and seemed to have missed the initial post regarding the breakage ...However I would advise against running
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
                      I seem to have come in on the end of this thread and seemed to have missed
                      the initial post regarding the breakage ...However I would advise against
                      running halyards inside a wooden mast.

                      A great source for wooden mast building for me has been Reull Parkers
                      chapter in "The New Cold Molded Boatbuilding" great way to build a mast and
                      bombproof as well.

                      Bob Wise
                      St Thomas USVI
                    • Richard Spelling
                      I would be concerned with the liquid flowing all the way down to the sponge, I d have to make it awful thin, or leave a pretty good gap. If I start at the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
                        I would be concerned with the liquid flowing all the way down to the sponge,
                        I'd have to make it awful thin, or leave a pretty good gap.

                        If I start at the bottom, then when the epoxy comes out around the top of
                        the plug, I know I've got good coverage...

                        Maybe I should glue a short plug, say 4 inches or so, next to the
                        sponge/noodle first, let it cure, then glue in the main? I could then apply
                        a LOT of presure to make the epoxy flow around the main plug...

                        Wonder if there is any reason I couldn't use Titebond II? Anybody have any
                        idea how big of a gap I could have and still get a good glue bond with
                        Titebond?

                        Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                        From the muddy waters of Oklahoma

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "GHC" <ghartc@...>
                        To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 2:14 PM
                        Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


                        > Why not push a sponge in first, add plug, then pour a cup of liquid on
                        top?
                        >
                        > Gregg Carlson
                        >
                        > At 01:32 PM 7/31/2000 -0500, you wrote:
                        > >Sorry, cut WOOD plug on table saw, expoxy in place. Shouldn't need more
                        than
                        > >a cup of epoxy, just enough to fill the gap between the wooden plug and
                        the
                        > >mast walls.
                        > >
                        > >You think it would be liquid tite after being pushes four feet into the
                        > >tube?
                        > >
                        > >Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                        > >From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
                        > >
                        > >----- Original Message -----
                        > >From: "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...>
                        > >To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                        > >Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:30 PM
                        > >Subject: RE: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >> Sounds like an expensive plug, all that epoxy, but you could control it
                        > >with
                        > >> a piece of closed cell foam, cut just bigger than the inside diameter,
                        and
                        > >> pushed into place. That should keep the epoxy where you want it.
                        > >>
                        > >> Jamie Orr
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> -----Original Message-----
                        > >> From: Richard Spelling [mailto:richard@...]
                        > >> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 11:21 AM
                        > >> To: bolger@egroups.com
                        > >> Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me
                        convinced I
                        > >> need to put a plug in mine.
                        > >>
                        > >> No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug in
                        it
                        > >> just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in
                        thickened
                        > >> epoxy, drive plug in.
                        > >>
                        > >> The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the
                        epoxy
                        > >> doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert four
                        feet
                        > >> into a hollow wooden tube.
                        > >>
                        > >> Any suggestions from the collective?
                        > >>
                        > >> Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                        > >> <http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats>
                        > >> From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
                        > >>
                        > >> _____
                        > >>
                        > >> <http://click.egroups.com/1/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/>
                        > >>
                        > ><http://adimg.egroups.com/img/7150/13/_/3457/_/965067861/468x60new13.gif>
                        > >>
                        > >> _____
                        > >>
                        > >> Bolger rules!!!
                        > >> - no cursing
                        > >> - stay on topic
                        > >> - use punctuation
                        > >> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                        > >> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Bolger rules!!!
                        > >> - no cursing
                        > >> - stay on topic
                        > >> - use punctuation
                        > >> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                        > >> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >Bolger rules!!!
                        > >- no cursing
                        > >- stay on topic
                        > >- use punctuation
                        > >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                        > >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bolger rules!!!
                        > - no cursing
                        > - stay on topic
                        > - use punctuation
                        > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                        > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                        >
                      • fraser.howell@ns.sympatico.ca
                        I agree that a plug overrllaappping the partner to boom jaw is needed. As well, On my next mast, I will wrap the area of the partner with epoxy and cloth, for
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
                          I agree that a plug overrllaappping the partner to boom jaw is needed.
                          As well, On my next mast, I will wrap the area of the partner with epoxy
                          and cloth, for protection against crushing(which is what caused my
                          failure, I think).
                          One of my reasons for a hollow mast, is to run the halyards inside, so
                          my plug will have to have room for them. The inside of the birdsmouth
                          mast is octagonal. My plug will either: a)span the opposite sides on the
                          inside of the octagonal, leaving room fore and aft for the 2 halyards,
                          or b) be octagonal, but drilled out. I intend to insert the plug, and
                          glue it up during assembly. I will ensure dry-fit. It might even help
                          with the assembly.
                          For the record, my hollow mast weighed 28 lb. The solid mast it replaced
                          (now back in service) weighs 45 lb. The old mast is whippy in comparison
                          to the hollow one, and makes me nervous. I didn't expect the hollow one
                          to break, and I am always expecting the solid one to break. Go figure.
                          For the plug-gluing problem, why not position the plug, drill tiny holes
                          through the mast walls and inject thickened epoxy with one of those
                          outrageously expensive WEST system syringes?
                          As for cassette tape as telltale, GHC, what is temporary about that?
                          I am now preparing the strakes for unstayed hollow mast #2. The last
                          one.
                          Cheers;
                          Fraser
                        • Orr, Jamie
                          Fraser, With your halyards inside the mast, do you have any problem with the lead on the peak halyard, from the mast to the peak? I thought of putting a
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
                            Fraser,

                            With your halyards inside the mast, do you have any problem with the lead on
                            the peak halyard, from the mast to the peak? I thought of putting a sheave
                            at the masthead, but decided against it as the halyard would chafe against
                            the side of the slot or box most of the time, wearing the rope, mast or
                            both. Also, what sort of sheave/box do you use for either halyard -- are
                            they just screwed to the wall of the mast, or is the mast reinforced there?

                            Jamie

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: fraser.howell@...
                            [mailto:fraser.howell@...]
                            Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:45 PM
                            To: bolger@egroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


                            ...One of my reasons for a hollow mast, is to run the halyards inside, so
                            my plug will have to have room for them...
                          • Richard Spelling
                            Gordon, David. I believe the failure mode is tube crushing, this is what the plug would prevent. Don t think an external layer of epoxy/fiber of any
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
                              Gordon, David.

                              I believe the failure mode is tube crushing, this is what the plug would
                              prevent. Don't think an external layer of epoxy/fiber of any reasonalble
                              thickness would help in this.

                              The tube is plenty strong, was only going to try to prevent crushing at the
                              partner.

                              On the other hand, I've had her out in some pretty strong wind with no
                              apparent problems. In addition, doug fir is quite a bit harder than spruce.
                              I may just ignore it, and build a solid one if it fails...

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Gordon Couger" <gcouger@...>
                              To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 6:42 AM
                              Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


                              > Putting solid plugs in properly sized hollow mast are a good way to cause
                              > the mast to fail at the end of the plug. If forms a stress riser.
                              >
                              > The proper way to strengthen a tube it with diamond shaped patches or
                              > layers of fiberglass that taper from each end to the middle.
                              >
                              > Gordon
                              > Gordon Couger gcouger@...
                              > Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
                              > 405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
                              > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                              > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:20 PM
                              > Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                              >
                              >
                              > All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me convinced I
                              > need to put a plug in mine.
                              >
                              > No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug in it
                              > just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in thickened
                              > epoxy, drive plug in.
                              >
                              > The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the epoxy
                              > doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert four feet
                              > into a hollow wooden tube.
                              >
                              > Any suggestions from the collective?
                              >
                              > Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                              > From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Bolger rules!!!
                              > - no cursing
                              > - stay on topic
                              > - use punctuation
                              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                              > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                              >
                            • Richard Spelling
                              Can you describe a diamond shaped metal plate ? Where would it be going? I agree with you that it would probably break at the end of the plug, this is why
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
                                Can you describe a "diamond shaped metal plate"? Where would it be going?

                                I agree with you that it would probably break at the end of the plug, this
                                is why I've pretty much reconsidered doing anything to it.

                                It doesn't appear to have any crushing problems so far, and if it does snap,
                                I'm a daysailer, I'll troll home and make a solid mast.

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Gordon Couger" <gcouger@...>
                                To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 7:18 AM
                                Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug


                                > If you want to prevent crushing a diamond shaped metal plate will do a lot
                                > better than plug. The outer part of the mast will still crush. If you have
                                > crushing problems you should spread them over the mast.
                                >
                                > Take an broken fishing pole and epoxy a plug in it and bend it until it
                                > breaks. I bet you ten bucks it breaks at the end of the plug.
                                >
                                > Gordon
                                > Gordon Couger gcouger@...
                                > Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
                                > 405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
                                > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                                > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 6:53 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                                >
                                >
                                > > Gordon, David.
                                > >
                                > > I believe the failure mode is tube crushing, this is what the plug would
                                > > prevent. Don't think an external layer of epoxy/fiber of any reasonalble
                                > > thickness would help in this.
                                > >
                                > > The tube is plenty strong, was only going to try to prevent crushing at
                                > the
                                > > partner.
                                > >
                                > > On the other hand, I've had her out in some pretty strong wind with no
                                > > apparent problems. In addition, doug fir is quite a bit harder than
                                > spruce.
                                > > I may just ignore it, and build a solid one if it fails...
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: "Gordon Couger" <gcouger@...>
                                > > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                                > > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 6:42 AM
                                > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > > Putting solid plugs in properly sized hollow mast are a good way to
                                > cause
                                > > > the mast to fail at the end of the plug. If forms a stress riser.
                                > > >
                                > > > The proper way to strengthen a tube it with diamond shaped patches or
                                > > > layers of fiberglass that taper from each end to the middle.
                                > > >
                                > > > Gordon
                                > > > Gordon Couger gcouger@...
                                > > > Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
                                > > > 405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
                                > > > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                                > > > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:20 PM
                                > > > Subject: [bolger] Hollow mast plug
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > All this talk about putting solid cores in hollow masts has me
                                > convinced I
                                > > > need to put a plug in mine.
                                > > >
                                > > > No problem, cut one to fit on the table saw, put some kind of plug in
                                > it
                                > > > just above the partner, stand mast on end, climb ladder, pour in
                                > thickened
                                > > > epoxy, drive plug in.
                                > > >
                                > > > The question becomes, what is the best way to plug the mast so the
                                > epoxy
                                > > > doesn't get wasted? Needs to be liquid tight, but easy to insert four
                                > feet
                                > > > into a hollow wooden tube.
                                > > >
                                > > > Any suggestions from the collective?
                                > > >
                                > > > Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
                                > > > From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Bolger rules!!!
                                > > > - no cursing
                                > > > - stay on topic
                                > > > - use punctuation
                                > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                                > > > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Bolger rules!!!
                                > > - no cursing
                                > > - stay on topic
                                > > - use punctuation
                                > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                                > > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Bolger rules!!!
                                > - no cursing
                                > - stay on topic
                                > - use punctuation
                                > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                                > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                                >
                              • Richard Spelling
                                ... snap, ... Just got back from measuring my mast. The walls are 1 thick, not 7/8 as stated earlier. Doug fir, 3-1/2 wide, 20ft long, 40lb. Just closely
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 31, 2000
                                  > It doesn't appear to have any crushing problems so far, and if it does
                                  snap,
                                  > I'm a daysailer, I'll troll home and make a solid mast.
                                  >
                                  Just got back from measuring my mast. The walls are 1" thick, not 7/8" as
                                  stated earlier.
                                  Doug fir, 3-1/2" wide, 20ft long, 40lb.

                                  Just closely examined the bearing surface at the partner. No signs of
                                  crushing at all, except where I didn't quite get it shaved perfectly smooth,
                                  then the small hills of wood are slightly, say 1/16", crushed. This is raw
                                  wood, epoxy coated, no glass.

                                  Partner is 1-1/2" thick, "D" shaped, with the curved side of the "D" wood
                                  and a metal plate across the strait side.

                                  As a side note, the grain on the individual staves go pretty much every
                                  which way but loose. I think two of them are in the "tree" position, the
                                  rest going willy nilly.
                                • Mark Albanese
                                  FWIW the Windsprint plans show a square, hollow, tapered mast, 15 6 x 3 to carry a 113 sq. ft. balanced lug. There s a solid plug at the bottom 2 6 . The
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 1 1:04 AM
                                    FWIW the Windsprint plans show a square, hollow, tapered
                                    mast, 15' 6" x 3" to carry a 113 sq. ft. balanced lug.

                                    There's a solid plug at the bottom 2' 6". The bury is only
                                    16". This might be a clue to the right proportions.

                                    Mark


                                    Richard Spelling wrote:
                                    > snip
                                    > put some kind of plug in it just above the partner...
                                    snip
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