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Re: A real forgotten gem, Bolger 554 Camping Trimaran using Hobie Cat parts!

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  • eric14850
    Bruce, Would you care to comment on the shape of the box? I was surprised to see the bottom was V instead of flat. Noticed that the bottom rocker roughly
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 10, 2010
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      Bruce,

      Would you care to comment on the shape of the box? I was surprised to see the bottom was V instead of flat. Noticed that the bottom rocker roughly followed the Hobie rocker, and the the profile looking down of the side of the box and the side of the hobie are perhaps roughly similar as well. The boat should sail with a very small angle of heel which I would expect would minimise eddies at the chines regardless of the match between side and bottom. Your insights after close attention to the lines will be appreciated.

      A refinement might be to offset the struts to each ama so as to allow a couple of bolts to be undone and each ama slid up close to the main hull for trailering. Or did Phil have a solution already designed?

      Someone could have a very capable, and perhaps attractive,boat very cheaply. I think the Corsair class boats, Bird/Whale Watcher class and this boat are under-rated and under-represented in the owner/builder world.

      Eric



      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
      >
      > Digging through old MAIB's I stumbled across this amazing lost gem of
      > PCB's design. Coming from that period of his life that I value the
      > most, where (IMO) he was at the peak of his creative game. Reflecting
      > a maximum of his "break all rules" elegant frugal simplicity. From
      > Feb 1, 1992, MAIB V09N18.
      >
      > The genius here that he recognized that the expensive part of a boat
      > build is buying all the miscellaneous pieces, hardware/sails/etc...
      > And, that it is possible to buy an old "un-loved" Hobie Cat 16 for
      > nearly free. (Several are selling locally on Craigslist right now for
      > $400, complete including sail and trailer.) Starting with those
      > parts, you add a simple big curved box (23'6" long) weighing a mere
      > 450lbs.
      >
      > This boat actually echo's a lot of his "box boat" values we admire,
      > but with the Hobie Cat cannibalized, comes across as more refined.
      >
      > Cut a Hobie Cat in half, attach it to a 450 lbs simple plywood box,
      > and you get a very capable camp cruiser that sleeps four. Genius.
      >
      > I worked her up using Free!Ship and I am convinced this boat could
      > easily and quickly be achieved.
      >
      >
      > http://hallman.org/bolger/554/554-01.html
      >
      > http://hallman.org/bolger/554/Bolger554CampingTrimaran.html
      >
    • bud e
      Thanks for the post Bruce.  Do you have any more information on the interior of the main hull or where I can get more information on the main hull?  It would
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 10, 2010
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        Thanks for the post Bruce.  Do you have any more information on the interior of the main hull or where I can get more information on the main hull?  It would be close to perfect for my wife and I.

        Bud

        --- On Thu, 6/10/10, eric14850 <eric14850@...> wrote:

        From: eric14850 <eric14850@...>
        Subject: [bolger] Re: A real forgotten gem, Bolger 554 Camping Trimaran using Hobie Cat parts!
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 6:08 PM

        Bruce,

        Would you care to comment on the shape of the box?  I was surprised to see the bottom was V instead of flat.  Noticed that the bottom rocker roughly followed the Hobie rocker,  and the the profile looking down of the side of the box and the side of the hobie are perhaps roughly similar as well.  The boat should sail with a very small angle of heel which I would expect would minimise eddies at the chines regardless of the match between side and bottom.  Your insights after close attention to the lines will be appreciated.

        A refinement might be to offset the struts to each ama so as to allow a couple of bolts to be undone and each ama slid up close to the main hull for trailering.  Or did Phil have a solution already designed? 

        Someone could have a very capable, and perhaps attractive,boat very cheaply.  I think the Corsair class boats, Bird/Whale Watcher class and this boat are under-rated and under-represented in the owner/builder world. 

        Eric



        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
        >
        > Digging through old MAIB's I stumbled across this amazing lost gem of
        > PCB's design.  Coming from that period of his life that I value the
        > most, where (IMO) he was at the peak of his creative game.  Reflecting
        > a maximum of his "break all rules" elegant frugal simplicity.  From
        > Feb 1, 1992, MAIB V09N18.
        >
        > The genius here that he recognized that the expensive part of a boat
        > build is buying all the miscellaneous pieces, hardware/sails/etc...
        > And, that it is possible to buy an old "un-loved" Hobie Cat 16 for
        > nearly free.  (Several are selling locally on Craigslist right now for
        > $400, complete including sail and trailer.)  Starting with those
        > parts, you add a simple big curved box (23'6" long) weighing a mere
        > 450lbs.
        >
        > This boat actually echo's a lot of his "box boat" values we admire,
        > but with the Hobie Cat cannibalized, comes across as more refined.
        >
        > Cut a Hobie Cat in half, attach it to a 450 lbs simple plywood box,
        > and you get a very capable camp cruiser that sleeps four.  Genius.
        >
        > I worked her up using Free!Ship and I am convinced this boat could
        > easily and quickly be achieved.
        >
        >
        > http://hallman.org/bolger/554/554-01.html
        >
        > http://hallman.org/bolger/554/Bolger554CampingTrimaran.html
        >




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      • mason smith
        I reckon I rank as an appreciator of Phil Bolger s flat-bottomed boats, rockered and unrockered, but one thing I like about the low-cost trimaran 554 is its
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 11, 2010
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          I reckon I rank as an appreciator of Phil Bolger's flat-bottomed boats, rockered and unrockered, but one thing I like about the low-cost trimaran 554 is its deadrise bottom, because I suppose it gives the boat a shot at very good speed. I hadn't thought that the vee was "necessary," as Chris puts it, in the tri, but he surely has a point in that we can't heel this boat to put a better shape in the water, as we do with Micro, Birdwatcher, Whalewatcher (so speak of boats I've experienced), and a level flat-bottomed main hull might be a drag. However you get it, a vee-shaped underwater form has less wetted area for the displacement than a level flat bottom. Other factors of hydrodynamics surely come into play, too, maybe two surfaces rather than three shouldering water out of the way and none of them pushing it straight down.  Incidentally, though, back in April I steered a 32 foot Gemini catamaran across Tampa Bay and back in brisk wind, single reef in the main, 7 knots most of the time, and didn't give a hoot for the experience. Rather sail the Micro at 5 or 6 mph heeled the way God intended sailboats to heel. I would hope the tri would lift one hull nicely and heel about as much, in moderate air, as the Micro does, which ain't much. Signed, amateur,intuitive, no-account non-architect.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:12 PM
          Subject: Re: [bolger] A real forgotten gem, Bolger 554 Camping Trimaran using Hobie Cat parts!

           

          By "flat" I meant 0 deadrise.  I recall seeing two bits of info that I lack sufficient time to search out for reference.  One is the existence of "anti-stamp" pads for one of the AS series.  The other is that PCB, in a write-up of an AS type boat, discussed at some length the fact that the hull shape was intended to heel so that the chine gave the behavior that a V bottom would otherwise.  He further mentioned that the boat would be noisy at anchor.

          V/R
          Chris

          On 6/11/2010 1:35 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

          On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Christopher C. Wetherill
          <wetherillc@verizon. net> wrote:
            
          
          The V bottom also is required because the boat will sail essentially
          upright. A flat bottom would stamp something fierce. The AS series
          sails heeled over so that the chine forms a V.
          
          V/R
          Chris
          
              
          I partially agree.
          
          Flat bottom boats can pound fiercely.  I agree.
          
          Where I disagree is that the so called Bolger Box sailboats.  I am
          speaking only of the "box" displacement hulls like the Advanced
          Sharpies.  Those hulls have very deep bottom curvatures.  When viewed
          on paper in two dimension this harder to see, but look at these hulls
          in three dimensions, they have fat deeply curved bottoms.  They
          certainly have hard very chines, but they that cannot be called flat.
          
          The boxy river cruisers which are meant to plane, like Tennesee,
          Wyoming, etc., do have relatively flat bottoms, but they aren't sail
          boats.
          
          
            

      • daschultz2000
        Have to agree Bruce. Subtle genius. Any considering the coastal cruiser Schorpioen might build this as a proof of concept first. Being a numbered plan,
        Message 4 of 16 , Jun 12, 2010
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          Have to agree Bruce. Subtle genius. Any considering the coastal cruiser Schorpioen might build this as a "proof of concept" first. Being a numbered plan, seems like there is a good chance it will become available some day.

          Don
        • daschultz2000
          I would guess the rudders could be moved to the aft of the main hull for a bit of leverage and to keep them immersed. What s going on with the bow? Is that to
          Message 5 of 16 , Jun 12, 2010
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            I would guess the rudders could be moved to the aft of the main hull for a bit of leverage and to keep them immersed.

            What's going on with the bow? Is that to keep one from testing less than protected waters? Or for simple egress to land?

            Don
          • wwwind2002
            Bruce, magnificent work! I love the idea! I also love the idea of getting a bunch of hardware cheap. But I guess there is a hitch: a Hobie cat, a very light
            Message 6 of 16 , Jun 13, 2010
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              Bruce,
              magnificent work! I love the idea!

              I also love the idea of getting a bunch of hardware cheap. But I guess there is a hitch:
              a Hobie cat, a very light boat, just accelerates when a gust hits. This reduces the strain on the rig. (A monohull heels, archiving the same)

              But a heavier multihull (which cant simply zoom off with every gust) requires a stronger rig. Will the Hobie mast stand up to the extra force?
              And what about the sail? I assume (having never sailed one) it is cut very flat, for a fast boat is sailing on the wind all the time. It may lack power for a heavier boat.

              If you'd need a new rig you'd miss the point of the design.
              Any comments?

              Hannes


              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
              >
              > Digging through old MAIB's I stumbled across this amazing lost gem of
              > PCB's design. Coming from that period of his life that I value the
              > most, where (IMO) he was at the peak of his creative game. Reflecting
              > a maximum of his "break all rules" elegant frugal simplicity. From
              > Feb 1, 1992, MAIB V09N18.
              >
              > The genius here that he recognized that the expensive part of a boat
              > build is buying all the miscellaneous pieces, hardware/sails/etc...
              > And, that it is possible to buy an old "un-loved" Hobie Cat 16 for
              > nearly free. (Several are selling locally on Craigslist right now for
              > $400, complete including sail and trailer.) Starting with those
              > parts, you add a simple big curved box (23'6" long) weighing a mere
              > 450lbs.
              >
              > This boat actually echo's a lot of his "box boat" values we admire,
              > but with the Hobie Cat cannibalized, comes across as more refined.
              >
              > Cut a Hobie Cat in half, attach it to a 450 lbs simple plywood box,
              > and you get a very capable camp cruiser that sleeps four. Genius.
              >
              > I worked her up using Free!Ship and I am convinced this boat could
              > easily and quickly be achieved.
              >
              >
              > http://hallman.org/bolger/554/554-01.html
              >
              > http://hallman.org/bolger/554/Bolger554CampingTrimaran.html
              >
            • graeme19121984
              ... Mason, I think it s the other way about: the Vee shape having more wetted area for the same displacement. The vee-shape has better flow lines though, so
              Message 7 of 16 , Jun 13, 2010
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mason smith" <goodboat@...> wrote:
                > However you get it, a vee-shaped underwater form has less wetted
                > area for the displacement than a level flat bottom. Other factors
                > of hydrodynamics surely come into play, too...


                Mason, I think it's the other way about: the Vee shape having more wetted area for the same displacement.

                The vee-shape has better flow lines though, so above lower fractional hull speeds where wetted area drops away as an important component of resistance then the Vee has it. Above hull speed... for this shallow Vee, bets are off.

                I think this tri vaka may share some faults of the Pivers. The run may drag a large stern wave, for instance, but then I think this one more of a mono with outriggers than a tri. A fast mono.

                Graeme
              • Bruce Hallman
                ... My guess is that the Hobie16 hardware is strong enough. And, the sail would be underpowered but it would work. (I think that Hobie Cat sails are cut
                Message 8 of 16 , Jun 14, 2010
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                  > But a heavier multihull (which cant simply zoom off with every gust) requires a stronger rig. Will the Hobie mast stand up to the extra force?
                  > And what about the sail? I assume (having never sailed one) it is cut very flat, for a fast boat is sailing on the wind all the time. It may lack power for a heavier boat.

                  My guess is that the Hobie16 hardware is strong enough. And, the sail
                  would be underpowered but it would work. (I think that Hobie Cat
                  sails are cut nicely, much better than the poly-tarp sails I typically
                  use!) . If you aren't moving fast enough, that is when the motor
                  comes in useful. This isn't a racer, but it is a cheap and handy
                  camper.
                • hs
                  Amazing boat! I can see , and agree with the view that this boat`s design cleverly makes use of all those Hobie parts. But .... I also think that this design
                  Message 9 of 16 , Sep 22, 2010
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                    Amazing boat!

                    I can see , and agree with the view that this boat`s design cleverly makes use of all those Hobie parts.

                    But ....

                    I also think that this design could be " cheap " , and make as much sense if you rigged it with simple lug rig ( for example ).

                    My thinking is that it could still perform very well and you would have a lot less hardware to contend with.

                    I`m not entirely sure you would " miss the point ", even though I agree and understand your reason for saying so.I suppose if one had to construct amas from scratch as well , the picture could change.

                    The benefit and value of this design remains valid because a number of discarded beach cats are suitable for this design.

                    Any comments?





                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "wwwind2002" <datenmull@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Bruce,
                    > magnificent work! I love the idea!
                    >
                    > I also love the idea of getting a bunch of hardware cheap. But I guess there is a hitch:
                    > a Hobie cat, a very light boat, just accelerates when a gust hits. This reduces the strain on the rig. (A monohull heels, archiving the same)
                    >
                    > But a heavier multihull (which cant simply zoom off with every gust) requires a stronger rig. Will the Hobie mast stand up to the extra force?
                    > And what about the sail? I assume (having never sailed one) it is cut very flat, for a fast boat is sailing on the wind all the time. It may lack power for a heavier boat.
                    >
                    > If you'd need a new rig you'd miss the point of the design.
                    > Any comments?
                    >
                    > Hannes
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Digging through old MAIB's I stumbled across this amazing lost gem of
                    > > PCB's design. Coming from that period of his life that I value the
                    > > most, where (IMO) he was at the peak of his creative game. Reflecting
                    > > a maximum of his "break all rules" elegant frugal simplicity. From
                    > > Feb 1, 1992, MAIB V09N18.
                    > >
                    > > The genius here that he recognized that the expensive part of a boat
                    > > build is buying all the miscellaneous pieces, hardware/sails/etc...
                    > > And, that it is possible to buy an old "un-loved" Hobie Cat 16 for
                    > > nearly free. (Several are selling locally on Craigslist right now for
                    > > $400, complete including sail and trailer.) Starting with those
                    > > parts, you add a simple big curved box (23'6" long) weighing a mere
                    > > 450lbs.
                    > >
                    > > This boat actually echo's a lot of his "box boat" values we admire,
                    > > but with the Hobie Cat cannibalized, comes across as more refined.
                    > >
                    > > Cut a Hobie Cat in half, attach it to a 450 lbs simple plywood box,
                    > > and you get a very capable camp cruiser that sleeps four. Genius.
                    > >
                    > > I worked her up using Free!Ship and I am convinced this boat could
                    > > easily and quickly be achieved.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > http://hallman.org/bolger/554/554-01.html
                    > >
                    > > http://hallman.org/bolger/554/Bolger554CampingTrimaran.html
                    > >
                    >
                  • daschultz2000
                    Yes maybe. Certainly one could try any of a number of rigs including the Chinese gaff PB&F has favored in later designs. Just a matter of what you want to
                    Message 10 of 16 , Sep 22, 2010
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                      Yes maybe. Certainly one could try any of a number of rigs including the Chinese gaff PB&F has favored in later designs.

                      Just a matter of what you want to spend. If I were to build this and I found a Hobie w/o the rig my first stop might be a lug.

                      Don

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <hardystein2004@...> wrote:
                      > I also think that this design could be " cheap " , and make as much sense if you rigged it with simple lug rig ( for example ).
                      >
                    • hs
                      Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ? The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a foot well for rope anchor etc ...or to make
                      Message 11 of 16 , Sep 22, 2010
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                        Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ?

                        The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
                        for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?

                        How much water would this hold if swamped ?
                      • daschultz2000
                        Having read the essay, I conclude the well may have a floor/deck with scuppers. If not, I d probably make it free flooding with flappers on the drains. Don
                        Message 12 of 16 , Sep 23, 2010
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                          Having read the essay, I conclude the well may have a floor/deck with scuppers. If not, I'd probably make it free flooding with flappers on the drains.

                          Don

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <hardystein2004@...> wrote:
                          > Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ?
                          > The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
                          > for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?
                          >
                          > How much water would this hold if swamped ?
                          >
                        • hs
                          ... Thanks , Sounds like a good plan. Is the essay on the web? Always like reading Phil`s essays. Thanks again.
                          Message 13 of 16 , Sep 25, 2010
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                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "daschultz2000" <daschultz8275@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Having read the essay, I conclude the well may have a floor/deck with scuppers. If not, I'd probably make it free flooding with flappers on the drains.
                            >
                            > Don
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <hardystein2004@> wrote:
                            > > Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ?
                            > > The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
                            > > for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?
                            > >
                            > > How much water would this hold if swamped ?
                            > >
                            >

                            Thanks ,

                            Sounds like a good plan.
                            Is the essay on the web?
                            Always like reading Phil`s essays.

                            Thanks again.
                          • gary
                            The bow is a sugar scoop, similar to the bow on an AS 19; it can t hold water because it s open at the front. Could be an impressive thump if it plowed into
                            Message 14 of 16 , Sep 26, 2010
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                              The bow is a "sugar scoop," similar to the bow on an AS 19; it can't hold water because it's open at the front. Could be an impressive thump if it plowed into a steep wave or a motorboat wake. I had the plans and toyed with building it (until I spilled rubbing alcohol on the drawings and erased part of them). The accommodations were impressive and it looked to be a quick boat. I was concerned about the bow and the other potential drawback was the potentially long setup time. But with a bimini over the cockpit, it looked like a great boat for a week or better coastal cruise.

                              Gary

                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <hardystein2004@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ?
                              >
                              > The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
                              > for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?
                              >
                              > How much water would this hold if swamped ?
                              >
                            • hs
                              ... Many thanks Gary. Pity about the setup time tho` .
                              Message 15 of 16 , Sep 29, 2010
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                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gbship@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > The bow is a "sugar scoop," similar to the bow on an AS 19; it can't hold water because it's open at the front. Could be an impressive thump if it plowed into a steep wave or a motorboat wake. I had the plans and toyed with building it (until I spilled rubbing alcohol on the drawings and erased part of them). The accommodations were impressive and it looked to be a quick boat. I was concerned about the bow and the other potential drawback was the potentially long setup time. But with a bimini over the cockpit, it looked like a great boat for a week or better coastal cruise.
                                >
                                > Gary
                                >
                                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <hardystein2004@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ?
                                > >
                                > > The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
                                > > for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?
                                > >
                                > > How much water would this hold if swamped ?
                                > >
                                >




                                Many thanks Gary.

                                Pity about the setup time tho` .
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