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Re: Mizzens

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  • robertsmme
    Nels and all, This is a question I have been asking myself. I was wondering about putting two sheets on my Micro s mizzen this year to see if would help me to
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 5, 2010
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      Nels and all,
      This is a question I have been asking myself. I was wondering about putting two sheets on my Micro's mizzen this year to see if would help me to tack by allowing me to pull the mizzen to the windward side during the tack. The only concern is that with two sheets I am not likely to get the balancing behaviour I get with the single sheet on a Bumpkin. In that mode I can steer the boat when travelling anything from a broad reach to windward, simply by pulling on the mizzen sheet. This is because it brings the heading into the wind when pulled in tight and off the wind when released. You can in fact tack a micro with out touching the tiller simply by pulling and releasing the mizzen at the right time.

      I have also wondered about putting on a 'normal' boom so that I could reef the mizzen by rolling it around the mast. This would probably require the bumpkin to keep the boom down, which with the sprit boom you do not need to do.

      I do not believe that the position of the bumpkin makes any difference to the handling. If you look at Gary Hoyte's Balancing rig you will see it manages well with the sail off centre, granted his mast is not.

      In conclusion, double sheets will give you maximum control of the mizzen, which if you can manage all the lines will give some benefit and will also save you from having a 6 foot pole out of the rear of the boat. The other issue with the bumpkin is that I find that off the wind I can easily get a tangled sheet under the bumpkin if I should gybe without pulling in the sheet.

      What I would say is that I would be reluctant to sail without one now. I love the control it gives. I love the relaxed feeling it gives me when sailing and most of all I love the unconventional look that it gives.

      Martin
    • prairiedog2332
      Hi Robert, That is exactly what I was wondering about! With a single sheet, you can only snug up the mizzen sheet to line up above the boomkin/bumpkin or
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 5, 2010
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        Hi Robert,

        That is exactly what I was wondering about! With a single sheet, you can
        only snug up the mizzen sheet to line up above the boomkin/bumpkin or
        loosen it off the wind but you can't pull it to windward to kick the
        stern through a tack. You can do that with the Chebacco version I
        suspect.

        Maybe some sort of fold-down locking arm outboard the stern to starboard
        might give a sheeting angle for a second sheet to be used. How far
        outboard it would have to extend to give some windward affect might be
        another question. I understand that one can do this just by manually
        grabbing the sprit boom and forcing it to windward in an Oldshoe but
        requires a pretty long arm if one is relaxing in the cockpit well of a
        Micro or Long Micro.

        Nels


        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "robertsmme" <robertsmme@...> wrote:
        >
        > Nels and all,
        > This is a question I have been asking myself. I was wondering about
        putting two sheets on my Micro's mizzen this year to see if would help
        me to tack by allowing me to pull the mizzen to the windward side during
        the tack. The only concern is that with two sheets I am not likely to
        get the balancing behaviour I get with the single sheet on a Bumpkin.
        In that mode I can steer the boat when travelling anything from a broad
        reach to windward, simply by pulling on the mizzen sheet. This is
        because it brings the heading into the wind when pulled in tight and off
        the wind when released. You can in fact tack a micro with out touching
        the tiller simply by pulling and releasing the mizzen at the right time.
        >
        > I have also wondered about putting on a 'normal' boom so that I
        could reef the mizzen by rolling it around the mast. This would
        probably require the bumpkin to keep the boom down, which with the sprit
        boom you do not need to do.
        >
        > I do not believe that the position of the bumpkin makes any
        difference to the handling. If you look at Gary Hoyte's Balancing rig
        you will see it manages well with the sail off centre, granted his mast
        is not.
        >
        > In conclusion, double sheets will give you maximum control of the
        mizzen, which if you can manage all the lines will give some benefit and
        will also save you from having a 6 foot pole out of the rear of the
        boat. The other issue with the bumpkin is that I find that off the wind
        I can easily get a tangled sheet under the bumpkin if I should gybe
        without pulling in the sheet.
        >
        > What I would say is that I would be reluctant to sail without one
        now. I love the control it gives. I love the relaxed feeling it gives
        me when sailing and most of all I love the unconventional look that it
        gives.
        >
        > Martin
        >
      • Bruce Hallman
        On a Micro, if you want to backwind the mizzen, you can just grab the sprit boom on the sail with your hands and physically move it where you want. I think
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 5, 2010
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          On a Micro, if you want to backwind the mizzen, you can just grab the
          sprit boom on the sail with your hands and physically move it where
          you want. I think the biggest reason for the boomkin is that with an
          off-center starboard side mizzen mast, that there is not sufficient
          angle for a starboard sheet to pull the sail. With a centered mizzen
          mast, the sheet from each stern quarter has an adequate angle to pull.
        • Adirondack Goodboat
          Nels, I ve had several yawls with boomkins: Drascombe Lugers, Whalewatcher, Micro. The single common requirement is that the end of the boomkin be on the same
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 6, 2010
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            Nels, I've had several yawls with boomkins: Drascombe Lugers, Whalewatcher, Micro. The single common requirement is that the end of the boomkin be on the same fore/aft line as the mizzen mast, as it is in all these designs. So your choice perhaps comes down to Where's the best place for the mast? Here I would only say, As near the same line as the mainmast as is practical, with consideration for the motor and rudder/tiller. Another point worth mentioning is that you'd like your mizzen sheet to travel very freely. through whatever turning point is provided, dumb sheave or block, and in some cases you might want to provide fairleads for the returning part to keep them from fouling, as in Micro's case, the outboard motor. 
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 4:09 PM
            Subject: [bolger] Mizzens

             

            On the Micro series the mizzen is off-set to one side of the motor mount
            opening and includes a boomkin and a single sheet. Whalewatcher and
            Martha Jane much the same although with WW the boomkin is slanted so the
            outboard end lies more along the centerline it seems than with the other
            bomkins that extend straight aft.

            On the Chebacco series the mizzen is stepped on the center-line, just
            aft the rudder post - no boomkin but has two sheets.

            If a person is considering adding a mizzen to an existing design with a
            similar rudder and motor set-up, any ideas as which method would be
            preferably functional?

            Nels

          • Adirondack Goodboat
            Armchair sailing here, with my Micro s trailer locked in a glacier of ice, I m thinking that if you tried double sheets on a Micro you would not have a good
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 6, 2010
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              Armchair sailing here, with my Micro's trailer locked in a glacier of ice, I'm thinking that if you tried double sheets on a Micro you would not have a good sheeting angle on the starboard sheet, unless you did put on a conventional boom and so could fasten the sheet closer in to the transom. I think I'd rather have the single sheet, and if I want to force the mizzen to windward when in irons or nearly so, stand and push the spritboom by hand. ---Mason
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 4:49 PM
              Subject: [bolger] Re: Mizzens

               

              Nels and all,
              This is a question I have been asking myself. I was wondering about putting two sheets on my Micro's mizzen this year to see if would help me to tack by allowing me to pull the mizzen to the windward side during the tack. The only concern is that with two sheets I am not likely to get the balancing behaviour I get with the single sheet on a Bumpkin. In that mode I can steer the boat when travelling anything from a broad reach to windward, simply by pulling on the mizzen sheet. This is because it brings the heading into the wind when pulled in tight and off the wind when released. You can in fact tack a micro with out touching the tiller simply by pulling and releasing the mizzen at the right time.

              I have also wondered about putting on a 'normal' boom so that I could reef the mizzen by rolling it around the mast. This would probably require the bumpkin to keep the boom down, which with the sprit boom you do not need to do.

              I do not believe that the position of the bumpkin makes any difference to the handling. If you look at Gary Hoyte's Balancing rig you will see it manages well with the sail off centre, granted his mast is not.

              In conclusion, double sheets will give you maximum control of the mizzen, which if you can manage all the lines will give some benefit and will also save you from having a 6 foot pole out of the rear of the boat. The other issue with the bumpkin is that I find that off the wind I can easily get a tangled sheet under the bumpkin if I should gybe without pulling in the sheet.

              What I would say is that I would be reluctant to sail without one now. I love the control it gives. I love the relaxed feeling it gives me when sailing and most of all I love the unconventional look that it gives.

              Martin

            • Myles J. Swift
              Nels says That is exactly what I was wondering about! With a single sheet, you can only snug up the mizzen sheet to line up above the boomkin/bumpkin or
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 7, 2010
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                Nels says “That is exactly what I was wondering about! With a single sheet, you can
                only snug up the mizzen sheet to line up above the boomkin/bumpkin or
                loosen it off the wind but you can't pull it to windward to kick the
                stern through a tack.”

                 

                If you think you need to backwind the mizzen to tack I say you aren’t letting out the main at the right time. Accelerate into the tack and then slack the main. Trying to keep the main in during a tack like a fin keel/drop keel/daggerboard boat is fighting the design except in strong wind. You get the same problem of losing speed and gaining leeway if you haul in the main too soon after tacking.

                 

                MylesJ

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