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Re: Reefing a lug sail.

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  • Ralph
    Both of them can be seen here: http://boatbldr.com/html/boats/index.html
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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      Both of them can be seen here:
      http://boatbldr.com/html/boats/index.html

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, John Weiss <jrweiss98155@...> wrote:
      >
      > adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
      > >> http://www.tsca.net/puget/NordVinden.htm
      > >
      > > That's one beautiful boat, John.
      > >
      > > Jon
      >
      > Thanks!
      >
      > PB designed one very similar -- Nord Koster. That one is 16' vs 13',
      > and has an inboard rudder.
      >
    • Myles J. Swift
      Have you guys studied Matt Leyden s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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        Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.

         

        http://www.microcruising.com/paradox1.htm

         

        MylesJ

      • D.G. Cassidy
        Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action. Does anyone have the address for that? DGC ... Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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          Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action.
          Does anyone have the address for that?

          DGC

          On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Myles J. Swift wrote:



          Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
           
           
          MylesJ



        • Rick Bedard
          Part one; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DVAnCQJqLI Part two; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NaNtUEMYgw ... From: D.G. Cassidy
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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            Part one;
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DVAnCQJqLI

            Part two;
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NaNtUEMYgw

            --- On Tue, 2/2/10, D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...> wrote:

            From: D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...>
            Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 11:54 AM



            Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action.
            Does anyone have the address for that?

            DGC

            On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Myles J. Swift wrote:



            Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
             
             
            MylesJ





          • Rick Bedard
            Also look at what Tony did based on Matt Laydens rig; http://turtleislands.net/tmc/default.html ... From: Rick Bedard Subject: Re: [bolger]
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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              Also look at what Tony did based on Matt Laydens rig;

              http://turtleislands.net/tmc/default.html



              --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Rick Bedard <sctree@...> wrote:

              From: Rick Bedard <sctree@...>
              Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
              To: bolger@yahoogroups..com
              Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 6:56 PM



              Part one;
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DVAnCQJqLI

              Part two;
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NaNtUEMYgw

              --- On Tue, 2/2/10, D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...> wrote:

              From: D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...>
              Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 11:54 AM



              Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action.
              Does anyone have the address for that?

              DGC

              On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Myles J. Swift wrote:



              Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
               
               
              MylesJ







            • D.G. Cassidy
              Thanks! ... Thanks! On Feb 2, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Rick Bedard wrote: Also look at what Tony did based on Matt Laydens rig;
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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                Thanks!

                On Feb 2, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Rick Bedard wrote:



                Also look at what Tony did based on Matt Laydens rig;

                http://turtleislands.net/tmc/default.html



                --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Rick Bedard <sctree@...> wrote:

                From: Rick Bedard <sctree@...>
                Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
                To: bolger@yahoogroups..com
                Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 6:56 PM



                Part one;
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DVAnCQJqLI

                Part two;
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NaNtUEMYgw

                --- On Tue, 2/2/10, D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...> wrote:

                From: D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...>
                Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 11:54 AM



                Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action.
                Does anyone have the address for that?

                DGC

                On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Myles J. Swift wrote:



                Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                 
                 
                MylesJ










              • D.G. Cassidy
                There was a video I saw a year or two ago, maybe made by Matt himself, showing in detail the construction and operation of his furling system. Anyone else
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 3, 2010
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                  There was a video I saw a year or two ago, maybe made by Matt himself, showing in detail the construction and operation of his furling system.
                  Anyone else remember this -- or have a link?

                  DGC

                  On Feb 2, 2010, at 9:56 PM, Rick Bedard wrote:



                  Part one;
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DVAnCQJqLI

                  Part two;
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NaNtUEMYgw

                  --- On Tue, 2/2/10, D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...> wrote:

                  From: D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...>
                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 11:54 AM



                  Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action.
                  Does anyone have the address for that?

                  DGC

                  On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Myles J. Swift wrote:



                  Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                   
                   
                  MylesJ








                • Mark Albanese
                  It s Kirby! http://www.kirbypaint.com/
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 3, 2010
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                  • prairiedog2332
                    Bolger drew an alternate balance lug sail plan for the Alaskan Motorsailer that shows what looks like a 2nd halyard further up the yard. Item #3 here:
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 3, 2010
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                      Bolger drew an alternate balance lug sail plan for the Alaskan
                      Motorsailer that shows what looks like a 2nd halyard further up the
                      yard. Item #3 here:

                      <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/ICpqS5QpJbz2dqcP4LM2x751DTmFUANW3sn5SidPT8\
                      SY5_iYtWFxApAuAWnST6I5-EiTpqwnY7x1cd7IPMJofzvDQRxItw/Alaska%20Motorsaile\
                      r%20%23610/Alaska_motorsailer_sailplan.jpg>

                      If the link is too long, the diagram is in the first file at this group.

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/

                      Anybody know if this sail plan was ever written up somewhere? Looks like
                      it has slab reefing lines leading back to the pilothouse, with lazy
                      jacks to hold the battens onto the boom. To me this looks like a viable
                      option to a junk rig without the sheetlet system complication.

                      Nels
                    • eric14850
                      ... I expect the pretty reefs in those pictures were not put in while under way in conditions that deteriorated to the point of requiring a reef to be taken.
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 13, 2010
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Myles J. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Have you guys studied Matt Leyden's approach? He has a lug with roller
                        > reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a
                        > little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > http://www.microcruising.com/paradox1.htm
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > MylesJ
                        >


                        I expect the pretty reefs in those pictures were not put in while under way in conditions that deteriorated to the point of requiring a reef to be taken. Roller reefing is expensive, slow , complicated, and fails dangerously. Furthermore, roller reefing usually results in a sail that is not set well, or if the sail has been cut to reef well, it has been cut so it never does as good a job motivating the boat as a sail that has been cut properly without regard too reefing.

                        Slab, also called Jiffy, reefing has none of these problems. On ROGUE I slack the halyard, tie the new luff tack to the boom, pull on the leech reef line (tied to the of the boom, feeds up through a reef grommet back down to a turning block on the boom and forward to a cleat on the boom), cleat it, and haul on the halyard to reset the sail. I can lower the sail just enough to reef it or all the way before reefing in. ROGUE's masts are freestanding. I have not tried, but I see no reason I can't put a reef in on any point of sail. I expect that sails to at least 500 sq ft rigged the same way I have rigged my sails could be could be handled by a 130 lb physically fit person without resorting to athletics (assuming reefing at the same wind strength I have reefed ROGUE at say first reef at Force 5: 18 to 24 mph). (The strongest winds I have sailed ROGUE in were measured on deck as stead 22+ mph gusting to 35 mph and there was no consideration of a second reef, though it is instantly available just as the first reef is.) Complicating and increasing the expense of a lug sail makes no sense at all. Primary reasons for choosing a lug sail are simplicity and low cost.
                        Eric
                      • John Huft
                        I ve looked at it but haven t tried it yet. Looks pretty clever worth, worth trying with a polytarp sail. John Boy ________________________________ From:
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 13, 2010
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                          I've looked at it but haven't tried it yet.  Looks pretty clever worth, worth trying with a polytarp sail.
                          John Boy



                          From: eric14850 <eric14850@...>
                          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sat, February 13, 2010 8:53:22 PM
                          Subject: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.

                           

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "Myles J. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Have you guys studied Matt Leyden's approach? He has a lug with roller
                          > reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a
                          > little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > http://www.microcru ising.com/ paradox1. htm
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > MylesJ
                          >

                          I expect the pretty reefs in those pictures were not put in while under way in conditions that deteriorated to the point of requiring a reef to be taken. Roller reefing is expensive, slow , complicated, and fails dangerously. Furthermore, roller reefing usually results in a sail that is not set well, or if the sail has been cut to reef well, it has been cut so it never does as good a job motivating the boat as a sail that has been cut properly without regard too reefing.

                          Slab, also called Jiffy, reefing has none of these problems. On ROGUE I slack the halyard, tie the new luff tack to the boom, pull on the leech reef line (tied to the of the boom, feeds up through a reef grommet back down to a turning block on the boom and forward to a cleat on the boom), cleat it, and haul on the halyard to reset the sail. I can lower the sail just enough to reef it or all the way before reefing in. ROGUE's masts are freestanding. I have not tried, but I see no reason I can't put a reef in on any point of sail. I expect that sails to at least 500 sq ft rigged the same way I have rigged my sails could be could be handled by a 130 lb physically fit person without resorting to athletics (assuming reefing at the same wind strength I have reefed ROGUE at say first reef at Force 5: 18 to 24 mph). (The strongest winds I have sailed ROGUE in were measured on deck as stead 22+ mph gusting to 35 mph and there was no consideration of a second reef, though it is instantly available just as the first reef is.) Complicating and increasing the expense of a lug sail makes no sense at all. Primary reasons for choosing a lug sail are simplicity and low cost.
                          Eric


                        • gary
                          Actually, I ve seen the roller furled balanced lugs on Matt Layden-designed deployed, reefed, and lowered, while underway and all in seconds and with good sail
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 14, 2010
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                            Actually, I've seen the roller furled balanced lugs on Matt Layden-designed deployed, reefed, and lowered, while underway and all in seconds and with good sail shape for the reefed sails. But they depend on a special fitting, shaped like a question mark. One goes in the center of the forward end of the boom and the other fits in a sort of pivoting, universal joint on deck. I think the proportions of his lugs are a bit different form a "normal" balanced lug to accommodate his roller reefing. Matt is an exceptional sailor and he wouldn't use the system unless it was ultra-simple and ultra-reliable. I'm not sure, though, his system would work on a really large balanced lug.

                            Eric's adaptation for controlling the yard when lowering looks ingenious. Have you posted pictures yet and I missed them? There is another way than those that have been discussed, but it involves a second line. In this case, the line if tied to the forward end of the yard, led to a block on deck (about a foot or so forward of where the front edge of the yard is when the sail is lowered) and than back to the mast or cockpit -- where ever you are when raising the sail. the line is used to pull down on the forward end of the yard, which consequently pivots up the aft end. I like the simplicity of the downhaul line not going to the mast, and hence it can't get hung up there. But it is a second line to handle.

                            I have been able to reef my balanced lug while underway. The normal practice is to be close reaching and ease the sail until the front edge luffs, but the back half of the sail is still drawing (an autopilot is steering if I'm alone). then the halyard is eased and luff and leech reefing lines, which are led to the cockpit via turning blocks at the mast, are hauled in. The halyard is tensioned, and off we go. This works on my 385 square foot sail.

                            Gary

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "eric14850" <eric14850@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Myles J. Swift" <mswift@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Have you guys studied Matt Leyden's approach? He has a lug with roller
                            > > reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a
                            > > little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > http://www.microcruising.com/paradox1.htm
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > MylesJ
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > I expect the pretty reefs in those pictures were not put in while under way in conditions that deteriorated to the point of requiring a reef to be taken. Roller reefing is expensive, slow , complicated, and fails dangerously. Furthermore, roller reefing usually results in a sail that is not set well, or if the sail has been cut to reef well, it has been cut so it never does as good a job motivating the boat as a sail that has been cut properly without regard too reefing.
                            >
                            > Slab, also called Jiffy, reefing has none of these problems. On ROGUE I slack the halyard, tie the new luff tack to the boom, pull on the leech reef line (tied to the of the boom, feeds up through a reef grommet back down to a turning block on the boom and forward to a cleat on the boom), cleat it, and haul on the halyard to reset the sail. I can lower the sail just enough to reef it or all the way before reefing in. ROGUE's masts are freestanding. I have not tried, but I see no reason I can't put a reef in on any point of sail. I expect that sails to at least 500 sq ft rigged the same way I have rigged my sails could be could be handled by a 130 lb physically fit person without resorting to athletics (assuming reefing at the same wind strength I have reefed ROGUE at say first reef at Force 5: 18 to 24 mph). (The strongest winds I have sailed ROGUE in were measured on deck as stead 22+ mph gusting to 35 mph and there was no consideration of a second reef, though it is instantly available just as the first reef is.) Complicating and increasing the expense of a lug sail makes no sense at all. Primary reasons for choosing a lug sail are simplicity and low cost.
                            > Eric
                            >
                          • Tim
                            John, Those photos are beautiful. They could all be postcards! Tim
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 1, 2010
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                              John,

                              Those photos are beautiful. They could all be postcards!

                              Tim

                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, John Weiss <jrweiss98155@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > A [moderately] balanced lug can be easily reefed...
                              >
                              > My balanced lug yawl-rig Nord Vinden has 2 slightly different
                              > configurations on main and mizzen. The main has a full-length batten
                              > that, when reefed, effectively turns the sail into a lateen. The mizzen
                              > has no batten, but I have never had the desire or occasion to reef it
                              > anyhow.
                              >
                              > http://www.tsca.net/puget/NordVinden.htm
                              >
                              > The lazyjacks help support the rig when struck, but the main comes down
                              > with the batten pretty much level anyhow. I've reefed (and shaken out
                              > the reef) a few times underway, and it's a leisurely event...
                              >
                              >
                              > Rick Bedard wrote:
                              > >
                              > > For when you return a question or two...
                              > > Trying to understand your solution, I guess what I'm asking is how did
                              > > you determine how long that tag line to the yard is and where along the
                              > > halyard did you spliced it in. Is it slack when the halyard is fully
                              > > hoisted? While hoisting/lowering is the yard parallel to the boom or what?
                              > >
                              > > Thanks,
                              > > Rick
                              >
                              > > --- On *Mon, 2/1/10, eric14850 /<eric14850@...>/* wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Gaff rigs have to have two halyards to control the yard. The lug
                              > > rig does not. I did not want to have the complication of two
                              > > halyards. I did much study of the junk, and lug sails, and a bit of
                              > > study of the lateen and gaff sails before settling on ROGUE's rig.
                              > > Long time ago. Not nearly so clear in mind as then. With Phil's
                              > > book 101 Small Boat Rigs I had a lot of fun debating different rig
                              > > configurations. Interior spaces had a lot of influence, especially
                              > > on my final decision.
                              > > Eric
                              >
                              > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              > > </mc/compose?to=bolger@yahoogroups.com>, Rick Bedard <sctree@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks for that Eric. I'm pretty sure I'm going with a lug sail
                              > > on my current build. I'm even more inclined now that you've solved
                              > > the yard end-drop. Have you posted photos anywhere? What design is
                              > > Rogue?
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks,
                              > > > Rick
                              >
                              > > > --- On Sun, 1/31/10, eric14850 <eric14850@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > An issue with reefing a lug sail is the problem that as soon as
                              > > the halyard is slacked the end of the yard comes down first. I
                              > > solved this problem by splicing a small line strong enough to
                              > > support the end of the yard and the sail below it to the halyard. I
                              > > spliced it to the halyard just long enough that it holds the yard
                              > > parallel to the boom (I have a balanced lug rig). I built a wide
                              > > block to accommodate both lines, but it self distructed and the
                              > > normal block I replaced it with has worked fine. This system works
                              > > perfectly in all winds up to 35mph (I have not been in stronger
                              > > winds but foresee no problems). I can lower the sail enough to tie
                              > > in a slab reef while the lazy jacks contain the sail, or I can cast
                              > > the halyard loose in a panic. As with a chinese lug rig, I can
                              > > lower or raise the sail on any heading. It is not necessary to head
                              > > into the wind. The yard and sail comes down nicely into the lazy
                              > > jacks. I've never read about this
                              > > > adaptation, so I think I can claim it as my own unique
                              > > improvement. It's simple and it seems to work well.
                              >
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