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Re: [bolger] Reefing a lug sail.

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  • Rick Bedard
    Thanks for that Eric. I m pretty sure I m going with a lug sail on my current build. I m even more inclined now that you ve solved the yard end-drop. Have you
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 31, 2010
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      Thanks for that Eric. I'm pretty sure I'm going with a lug sail on my current build. I'm even more inclined now that you've solved the yard end-drop. Have you posted photos anywhere? What design is Rogue?

      Thanks,
      Rick

      --- On Sun, 1/31/10, eric14850 <eric14850@...> wrote:

      From: eric14850 <eric14850@...>
      Subject: [bolger] Reefing a lug sail.
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 8:40 PM

      An issue with reefing a lug sail is the problem that as soon as the halyard is slacked the end of the yard comes down first.  I solved this problem by splicing a small line strong enough to support the end of the yard and the sail below it to the halyard.  I spliced it to the halyard just long enough that it holds the yard parallel to the boom (I have a balanced lug rig).  I built a wide block to accommodate both lines, but it self distructed and the normal block I replaced it with has worked fine.  This system works perfectly in all winds up to 35mph (I have not been in stronger winds but foresee no problems).  I can lower the sail enough to tie in a slab reef while the lazy jacks contain the sail, or I can cast the halyard loose in a panic..  As with a chinese lug rig, I can lower or raise the sail on any heading.  It is not necessary to head into the wind.  The yard and sail comes down nicely into the lazy jacks.  I've never read about this adaptation, so I think I can claim it as my own unique improvement.  It's simple and it seems to work well. 

      Ease of reefing a Chinese junk rig is one of its main advantages.  In small sizes (mine is 200+ square feet) I don't think a junk rig would be any easier or safer to reef than my balanced lug where all reefing is done at the mast, and can be done from the safety of a hatch.  If I wanted to I could lead the sheet and some steering lines to this hatch and control the boat from the hatch.  Likewise the foresail can be reefed from the forward hatch. 

      My sails are raised with winches on modern low stretch halyard lines.  ROGUE's masts are unstayed but rather stiff non-the-less..  Overbuilt I'm afraid.  In any case I can put plenty of tension on the halyard and completely control sail twist.  The yard falls off no more than I want it to.  I don't need the added control of multiple sheets to shape my lugsail. 

      Eric





      ------------------------------------

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    • Bruce Hallman
      ... FWIW, the Bolger Chinese Gaff addresses this by using two halyards, one connects near the forward end of the top gaff yard (at the jaws), and the other
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 1, 2010
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        On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:40 PM, eric14850 <eric14850@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > An issue with reefing a lug sail is the problem that as soon as the halyard is slacked the end of the yard comes down first.

        FWIW, the Bolger Chinese Gaff addresses this by using two halyards,
        one connects near the forward end of the top gaff yard (at the jaws),
        and the other connects about 2/3rds way aft on the top gaff yard.
      • eric14850
        djdecker, thank you for that great link illustrating the Chinese junk rig. Rick, I don t have photos of ROGUE posted. I ll try to get some posted after I get
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 1, 2010
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          djdecker, thank you for that great link illustrating the Chinese junk rig.

          Rick,
          I don't have photos of ROGUE posted. I'll try to get some posted after I get back from a week long ski trip. ROGUE is Romp's hull form scaled down to 25'11", and a lot of other ideas of Phil Bolger's plus one or two of my own.

          Gaff rigs have to have two halyards to control the yard. The lug rig does not. I did not want to have the complication of two halyards. I did much study of the junk, and lug sails, and a bit of study of the lateen and gaff sails before settling on ROGUE's rig. Long time ago. Not nearly so clear in mind as then. With Phil's book 101 Small Boat Rigs I had a lot of fun debating different rig configurations. Interior spaces had a lot of influence, especially on my final decision.
          Eric

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Rick Bedard <sctree@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks for that Eric. I'm pretty sure I'm going with a lug sail on my current build. I'm even more inclined now that you've solved the yard end-drop. Have you posted photos anywhere? What design is Rogue?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Rick
          >
          > --- On Sun, 1/31/10, eric14850 <eric14850@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: eric14850 <eric14850@...>
          > Subject: [bolger] Reefing a lug sail.
          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 8:40 PM
          >
          > An issue with reefing a lug sail is the problem that as soon as the halyard is slacked the end of the yard comes down first.  I solved this problem by splicing a small line strong enough to support the end of the yard and the sail below it to the halyard.  I spliced it to the halyard just long enough that it holds the yard parallel to the boom (I have a balanced lug rig).  I built a wide block to accommodate both lines, but it self distructed and the normal block I replaced it with has worked fine.  This system works perfectly in all winds up to 35mph (I have not been in stronger winds but foresee no problems).  I can lower the sail enough to tie in a slab reef while the lazy jacks contain the sail, or I can cast the halyard loose in a panic.  As with a chinese lug rig, I can lower or raise the sail on any heading.  It is not necessary to head into the wind.  The yard and sail comes down nicely into the lazy jacks.  I've never read about this
          > adaptation, so I think I can claim it as my own unique improvement.  It's simple and it seems to work well. 
          >
          > Ease of reefing a Chinese junk rig is one of its main advantages.  In small sizes (mine is 200+ square feet) I don't think a junk rig would be any easier or safer to reef than my balanced lug where all reefing is done at the mast, and can be done from the safety of a hatch.  If I wanted to I could lead the sheet and some steering lines to this hatch and control the boat from the hatch.  Likewise the foresail can be reefed from the forward hatch. 
          >
          > My sails are raised with winches on modern low stretch halyard lines.  ROGUE's masts are unstayed but rather stiff non-the-less.  Overbuilt I'm afraid.  In any case I can put plenty of tension on the halyard and completely control sail twist.  The yard falls off no more than I want it to.  I don't need the added control of multiple sheets to shape my lugsail. 
          >
          > Eric
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
          > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
          > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
          > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe:  bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
        • Rick Bedard
          Eric, Enjoy the snow. For when you return a question or two... Trying to understand your solution, I guess what I m asking is how did you determine how long
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 1, 2010
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            Eric,
            Enjoy the snow.

            For when you return a question or two...
            Trying to understand your solution, I guess what I'm asking is how did you determine how long that tag line to the yard is and where along the halyard did you spliced it in. Is it slack when the halyard is fully hoisted? While hoisting/lowering is the yard parallel to the boom or what?

            Thanks,
            Rick

            --- On Mon, 2/1/10, eric14850 <eric14850@...> wrote:

            From: eric14850 <eric14850@...>
            Subject: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 3:43 PM

            djdecker, thank you for that great link illustrating the Chinese junk rig.

            Rick,
            I don't have photos of ROGUE posted. I'll try to get some posted after I get back from a week long ski trip.  ROGUE is Romp's hull form scaled down to 25'11", and a lot of other ideas of Phil Bolger's plus one or two of my own.

            Gaff rigs have to have two halyards to control the yard.  The lug rig does not.  I did not want to have the complication of two halyards.  I did much study of the junk, and lug sails, and a bit of study of the lateen and gaff sails before settling on ROGUE's rig.  Long time ago.  Not nearly so clear in mind as then.  With Phil's book 101 Small Boat Rigs I had a lot of fun debating different rig configurations.  Interior spaces had a lot of influence, especially on my final decision.
            Eric

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Rick Bedard <sctree@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks for that Eric. I'm pretty sure I'm going with a lug sail on my current build. I'm even more inclined now that you've solved the yard end-drop. Have you posted photos anywhere? What design is Rogue?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Rick
            >
            > --- On Sun, 1/31/10, eric14850 <eric14850@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: eric14850 <eric14850@...>
            > Subject: [bolger] Reefing a lug sail.
            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 8:40 PM
            >
            > An issue with reefing a lug sail is the problem that as soon as the halyard is slacked the end of the yard comes down first.  I solved this problem by splicing a small line strong enough to support the end of the yard and the sail below it to the halyard.  I spliced it to the halyard just long enough that it holds the yard parallel to the boom (I have a balanced lug rig).  I built a wide block to accommodate both lines, but it self distructed and the normal block I replaced it with has worked fine.  This system works perfectly in all winds up to 35mph (I have not been in stronger winds but foresee no problems).  I can lower the sail enough to tie in a slab reef while the lazy jacks contain the sail, or I can cast the halyard loose in a panic.  As with a chinese lug rig, I can lower or raise the sail on any heading.  It is not necessary to head into the wind.  The yard and sail comes down nicely into the lazy jacks.  I've never read about this
            >  adaptation, so I think I can claim it as my own unique improvement.  It's simple and it seems to work well. 
            >
            > Ease of reefing a Chinese junk rig is one of its main advantages.  In small sizes (mine is 200+ square feet) I don't think a junk rig would be any easier or safer to reef than my balanced lug where all reefing is done at the mast, and can be done from the safety of a hatch.  If I wanted to I could lead the sheet and some steering lines to this hatch and control the boat from the hatch.  Likewise the foresail can be reefed from the forward hatch. 
            >
            > My sails are raised with winches on modern low stretch halyard lines.  ROGUE's masts are unstayed but rather stiff non-the-less.  Overbuilt I'm afraid.  In any case I can put plenty of tension on the halyard and completely control sail twist.  The yard falls off no more than I want it to.  I don't need the added control of multiple sheets to shape my lugsail. 
            >
            > Eric
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Bolger rules!!!
            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            > - Unsubscribe:  bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
            >




            ------------------------------------

            Bolger rules!!!
            - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
            - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
            - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
            - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
            - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            - Unsubscribe:  bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links

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          • John Weiss
            A [moderately] balanced lug can be easily reefed... My balanced lug yawl-rig Nord Vinden has 2 slightly different configurations on main and mizzen. The main
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 1, 2010
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              A [moderately] balanced lug can be easily reefed...

              My balanced lug yawl-rig Nord Vinden has 2 slightly different
              configurations on main and mizzen. The main has a full-length batten
              that, when reefed, effectively turns the sail into a lateen. The mizzen
              has no batten, but I have never had the desire or occasion to reef it
              anyhow.

              http://www.tsca.net/puget/NordVinden.htm

              The lazyjacks help support the rig when struck, but the main comes down
              with the batten pretty much level anyhow. I've reefed (and shaken out
              the reef) a few times underway, and it's a leisurely event...


              Rick Bedard wrote:
              >
              > For when you return a question or two...
              > Trying to understand your solution, I guess what I'm asking is how did
              > you determine how long that tag line to the yard is and where along the
              > halyard did you spliced it in. Is it slack when the halyard is fully
              > hoisted? While hoisting/lowering is the yard parallel to the boom or what?
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Rick

              > --- On *Mon, 2/1/10, eric14850 /<eric14850@...>/* wrote:
              >
              > Gaff rigs have to have two halyards to control the yard. The lug
              > rig does not. I did not want to have the complication of two
              > halyards. I did much study of the junk, and lug sails, and a bit of
              > study of the lateen and gaff sails before settling on ROGUE's rig.
              > Long time ago. Not nearly so clear in mind as then. With Phil's
              > book 101 Small Boat Rigs I had a lot of fun debating different rig
              > configurations. Interior spaces had a lot of influence, especially
              > on my final decision.
              > Eric

              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > </mc/compose?to=bolger@yahoogroups.com>, Rick Bedard <sctree@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Thanks for that Eric. I'm pretty sure I'm going with a lug sail
              > on my current build. I'm even more inclined now that you've solved
              > the yard end-drop. Have you posted photos anywhere? What design is
              > Rogue?
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > > Rick

              > > --- On Sun, 1/31/10, eric14850 <eric14850@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > An issue with reefing a lug sail is the problem that as soon as
              > the halyard is slacked the end of the yard comes down first. I
              > solved this problem by splicing a small line strong enough to
              > support the end of the yard and the sail below it to the halyard. I
              > spliced it to the halyard just long enough that it holds the yard
              > parallel to the boom (I have a balanced lug rig). I built a wide
              > block to accommodate both lines, but it self distructed and the
              > normal block I replaced it with has worked fine. This system works
              > perfectly in all winds up to 35mph (I have not been in stronger
              > winds but foresee no problems). I can lower the sail enough to tie
              > in a slab reef while the lazy jacks contain the sail, or I can cast
              > the halyard loose in a panic. As with a chinese lug rig, I can
              > lower or raise the sail on any heading. It is not necessary to head
              > into the wind. The yard and sail comes down nicely into the lazy
              > jacks. I've never read about this
              > > adaptation, so I think I can claim it as my own unique
              > improvement. It's simple and it seems to work well.
            • eric14850
              My halyard and the auxiliary line to the yard end are both braid line which I do not know how to splice. I sewed the smaller auxiliary line to the larger
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 1, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                My halyard and the auxiliary line to the yard end are both braid line which I do not know how to splice. I sewed the smaller auxiliary line to the larger diameter halyard, and then whipped the joint to protect it and add strength. I may also have tapered the end of the small line before sewing it to the halyard to make it feed into the block easier.

                I determined the length of the auxiliary line by experimentation, a long time ago and I don't remember the process.

                A parrel loosely holds the yard to the mast. It also limits fore and aft travel of the yard. The dynamic tension of the mast, parrel, halyard, and auxiliary line hold everything nicely until tension on the luff peaks the leech. At this point the auxiliary line hangs somewhat slack, but remember, much of it has been pulled through the masthead block. I don't remember how I determined the length of the auxiliary line. I suggest with the yard on deck, tying off to the end of the yard and then holding the auxiliary line to the halyard with a vice grip at what seems a reasonable spot. Then pull on the halyard to see what happens. when it looks right, tape, or whip the lines together perhaps leaving the auxiliary line much too long and lightly joined to the halyard. Raise the sail. When everything looks right sew or splice it together permanently.

                Hope that helps. Sorry I don't have a formula. I can't measure my halyard until after I get back though I don't know that a formula is possible given the different lengths of parrels, halyard attachment points to yards, and variability different yards are peaked up.

                The yard is more or less parallel to the boom when the sail is lowered.

                Hope that helps.

                Eric



                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Rick Bedard <sctree@...> wrote:
                >
                > Eric,
                > Enjoy the snow.
                >
                > For when you return a question or two...
                > Trying to understand your solution, I guess what I'm asking is how did you determine how long that tag line to the yard is and where along the halyard did you spliced it in. Is it slack when the halyard is fully hoisted? While hoisting/lowering is the yard parallel to the boom or what?
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Rick
                >
                > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, eric14850 <eric14850@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: eric14850 <eric14850@...>
                > Subject: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 3:43 PM
                >
                > djdecker, thank you for that great link illustrating the Chinese junk rig.
                >
                > Rick,
                > I don't have photos of ROGUE posted. I'll try to get some posted after I get back from a week long ski trip.  ROGUE is Romp's hull form scaled down to 25'11", and a lot of other ideas of Phil Bolger's plus one or two of my own.
                >
                > Gaff rigs have to have two halyards to control the yard.  The lug rig does not.  I did not want to have the complication of two halyards.  I did much study of the junk, and lug sails, and a bit of study of the lateen and gaff sails before settling on ROGUE's rig.  Long time ago.  Not nearly so clear in mind as then.  With Phil's book 101 Small Boat Rigs I had a lot of fun debating different rig configurations.  Interior spaces had a lot of influence, especially on my final decision.
                > Eric
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Rick Bedard <sctree@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks for that Eric. I'm pretty sure I'm going with a lug sail on my current build. I'm even more inclined now that you've solved the yard end-drop.. Have you posted photos anywhere? What design is Rogue?
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > Rick
                > >
                > > --- On Sun, 1/31/10, eric14850 <eric14850@> wrote:
                > >
                > > From: eric14850 <eric14850@>
                > > Subject: [bolger] Reefing a lug sail.
                > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > > Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 8:40 PM
                > >
                > > An issue with reefing a lug sail is the problem that as soon as the halyard is slacked the end of the yard comes down first.  I solved this problem by splicing a small line strong enough to support the end of the yard and the sail below it to the halyard.  I spliced it to the halyard just long enough that it holds the yard parallel to the boom (I have a balanced lug rig).  I built a wide block to accommodate both lines, but it self distructed and the normal block I replaced it with has worked fine.  This system works perfectly in all winds up to 35mph (I have not been in stronger winds but foresee no problems).  I can lower the sail enough to tie in a slab reef while the lazy jacks contain the sail, or I can cast the halyard loose in a panic.  As with a chinese lug rig, I can lower or raise the sail on any heading.  It is not necessary to head into the wind.  The yard and sail comes down nicely into the lazy jacks.  I've never read about this
                > >  adaptation, so I think I can claim it as my own unique improvement.  It's simple and it seems to work well. 
                > >
                > > Ease of reefing a Chinese junk rig is one of its main advantages.  In small sizes (mine is 200+ square feet) I don't think a junk rig would be any easier or safer to reef than my balanced lug where all reefing is done at the mast, and can be done from the safety of a hatch.  If I wanted to I could lead the sheet and some steering lines to this hatch and control the boat from the hatch.  Likewise the foresail can be reefed from the forward hatch. 
                > >
                > > My sails are raised with winches on modern low stretch halyard lines.  ROGUE's masts are unstayed but rather stiff non-the-less.  Overbuilt I'm afraid.  In any case I can put plenty of tension on the halyard and completely control sail twist.  The yard falls off no more than I want it to.  I don't need the added control of multiple sheets to shape my lugsail. 
                > >
                > > Eric
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Bolger rules!!!
                > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
                > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                > > - Unsubscribe:  bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                > - Unsubscribe:  bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
              • Harry James
                Samson has a neat web page with all their braided line and how to splice. http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?page=28 HJ
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Samson has a neat web page with all their braided line and how to splice.

                  http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?page=28

                  HJ

                  eric14850 wrote:
                  > My halyard and the auxiliary line to the yard end are both braid line which I do not know how to splice. I sewed the smaller auxiliary line to the larger diameter halyard, and then whipped the joint to protect it and add strength. I may also have tapered the end of the small line before sewing it to the halyard to make it feed into the block easier.
                  >
                  > I determined the length of the auxiliary line by experimentation, a long time ago and I don't remember the process.
                  >
                  > A parrel loosely holds the yard to the mast. It also limits fore and aft travel of the yard. The dynamic tension of the mast, parrel, halyard, and auxiliary line hold everything nicely until tension on the luff peaks the leech. At this point the auxiliary line hangs somewhat slack, but remember, much of it has been pulled through the masthead block. I don't remember how I determined the length of the auxiliary line. I suggest with the yard on deck, tying off to the end of the yard and then holding the auxiliary line to the halyard with a vice grip at what seems a reasonable spot. Then pull on the halyard to see what happens. when it looks right, tape, or whip the lines together perhaps leaving the auxiliary line much too long and lightly joined to the halyard. Raise the sail. When everything looks right sew or splice it together permanently.
                  >
                  > Hope that helps. Sorry I don't have a formula. I can't measure my halyard until after I get back though I don't know that a formula is possible given the different lengths of parrels, halyard attachment points to yards, and variability different yards are peaked up.
                  >
                  > The yard is more or less parallel to the boom when the sail is lowered.
                  >
                  > Hope that helps.
                  >
                  > Eric
                  >
                  >
                • adventures_in_astrophotography
                  Eric, ...snip... I ve never read about this adaptation, so I think I can claim it as my own unique improvement. It s simple and it seems to work well.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Eric,

                    ...snip...
                    I've never read about this adaptation, so I think I can claim it as my own unique improvement. It's simple and it seems to work well.
                    ...snip...

                    This setup sounds just like Bolger's use of a peak halyard on a lugsail yard. He did it on a dipping (boomless) lug sail, but for the same reason. What's different about your adaptation is splicing the peak and normal halyards together into a bridle and running it through a single block. As long as the doubled bridle doesn't jam the block aloft, why not? Still, I'd be worried that one day it would jam just when I really needed it to come down.

                    Given the number of lug sails used throughout history, it certainly seems possible that somebody tried to hoist one with a bridle once, but I don't recall seeing or reading about one.

                    An alternative to running the doubled line through the block is to simply extend the halyard block height so that the bridle splice never gets to the block at full hoist. The length and placement of the peak bridle segment along the yard must be critical to getting a good set to the sail, so that the yard isn't pulled forward by the peak segment. A yard parrel would mitigate this, but possibly with a lot of stress and chafe. It seems to me that the peak segment of the bridle should be just a bit slack at full hoist to get a good set to a lug sail. If it worked, a sail rigged this way could use a knot, bend, or shackle in place of the splice.

                    I'd be interested to see photos of your rig during the hoist and at full hoist.

                    Jon Kolb
                    www.kolbsadventures.com
                  • adventures_in_astrophotography
                    ... That s one beautiful boat, John. Jon
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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                      > http://www.tsca.net/puget/NordVinden.htm

                      That's one beautiful boat, John.

                      Jon
                    • Bruce Hallman
                      (I know this thread is discussing the rigging of the balanced lug rig, and I agree that John Weiss Nord Vinden is a gorgeous boat.) ...but it reminds me of a
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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                        (I know this thread is discussing the rigging of the balanced lug rig,
                        and I agree that John Weiss' Nord Vinden is a gorgeous boat.)


                        ...but it reminds me of a question about Bolger's Chinese Lug I asked
                        of PCB about that rig design and his answer in a hand written letter.
                        It is kind of minor, but I thought I would share it:

                        In the PCB drawing of the rig, there is a small triangle visible on
                        the mast near the throat halyard which confused me. And, I was
                        generally unclear from the drawings how to rig the throat halyard.
                        PCB explained patiently that the triangle was a 'slip of the pen'.
                        And, that the rigging of the throat halyard runs up the mast and turns
                        on a single block attached to to the lower end of a long stiff pendant
                        which is attached near the top of the mast and then back down and
                        fastens to the gaff near the throat jaw. This is intended to reduce
                        the total length of halyard (being a thinner more stretch prone line
                        than the pendant) reducing the total amount of halyard stretch.

                        I initially rigged it this way, but after tryout, I added a second
                        block at the gaff and 'double parted' the halyard back up to fasten at
                        the pendant near the top block because I needed extra mechanical
                        advantage to hoist the sail because I am personally not that strong.
                      • John Weiss
                        ... Thanks! PB designed one very similar -- Nord Koster. That one is 16 vs 13 , and has an inboard rudder.
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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                          adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
                          >> http://www.tsca.net/puget/NordVinden.htm
                          >
                          > That's one beautiful boat, John.
                          >
                          > Jon

                          Thanks!

                          PB designed one very similar -- Nord Koster. That one is 16' vs 13',
                          and has an inboard rudder.
                        • Ralph
                          Both of them can be seen here: http://boatbldr.com/html/boats/index.html
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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                            Both of them can be seen here:
                            http://boatbldr.com/html/boats/index.html

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, John Weiss <jrweiss98155@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
                            > >> http://www.tsca.net/puget/NordVinden.htm
                            > >
                            > > That's one beautiful boat, John.
                            > >
                            > > Jon
                            >
                            > Thanks!
                            >
                            > PB designed one very similar -- Nord Koster. That one is 16' vs 13',
                            > and has an inboard rudder.
                            >
                          • Myles J. Swift
                            Have you guys studied Matt Leyden s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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                              Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.

                               

                              http://www.microcruising.com/paradox1.htm

                               

                              MylesJ

                            • D.G. Cassidy
                              Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action. Does anyone have the address for that? DGC ... Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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                                Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action.
                                Does anyone have the address for that?

                                DGC

                                On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Myles J. Swift wrote:



                                Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                                 
                                 
                                MylesJ



                              • Rick Bedard
                                Part one; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DVAnCQJqLI Part two; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NaNtUEMYgw ... From: D.G. Cassidy
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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                                  Part one;
                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DVAnCQJqLI

                                  Part two;
                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NaNtUEMYgw

                                  --- On Tue, 2/2/10, D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...> wrote:

                                  From: D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
                                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 11:54 AM



                                  Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action.
                                  Does anyone have the address for that?

                                  DGC

                                  On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Myles J. Swift wrote:



                                  Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                                   
                                   
                                  MylesJ





                                • Rick Bedard
                                  Also look at what Tony did based on Matt Laydens rig; http://turtleislands.net/tmc/default.html ... From: Rick Bedard Subject: Re: [bolger]
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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                                    Also look at what Tony did based on Matt Laydens rig;

                                    http://turtleislands.net/tmc/default.html



                                    --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Rick Bedard <sctree@...> wrote:

                                    From: Rick Bedard <sctree@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
                                    To: bolger@yahoogroups..com
                                    Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 6:56 PM



                                    Part one;
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DVAnCQJqLI

                                    Part two;
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NaNtUEMYgw

                                    --- On Tue, 2/2/10, D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...> wrote:

                                    From: D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
                                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 11:54 AM



                                    Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action.
                                    Does anyone have the address for that?

                                    DGC

                                    On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Myles J. Swift wrote:



                                    Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                                     
                                     
                                    MylesJ







                                  • D.G. Cassidy
                                    Thanks! ... Thanks! On Feb 2, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Rick Bedard wrote: Also look at what Tony did based on Matt Laydens rig;
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 2, 2010
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                                      Thanks!

                                      On Feb 2, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Rick Bedard wrote:



                                      Also look at what Tony did based on Matt Laydens rig;

                                      http://turtleislands.net/tmc/default.html



                                      --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Rick Bedard <sctree@...> wrote:

                                      From: Rick Bedard <sctree@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
                                      To: bolger@yahoogroups..com
                                      Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 6:56 PM



                                      Part one;
                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DVAnCQJqLI

                                      Part two;
                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NaNtUEMYgw

                                      --- On Tue, 2/2/10, D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...> wrote:

                                      From: D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
                                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 11:54 AM



                                      Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action.
                                      Does anyone have the address for that?

                                      DGC

                                      On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Myles J. Swift wrote:



                                      Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                                       
                                       
                                      MylesJ










                                    • D.G. Cassidy
                                      There was a video I saw a year or two ago, maybe made by Matt himself, showing in detail the construction and operation of his furling system. Anyone else
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 3, 2010
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                                        There was a video I saw a year or two ago, maybe made by Matt himself, showing in detail the construction and operation of his furling system.
                                        Anyone else remember this -- or have a link?

                                        DGC

                                        On Feb 2, 2010, at 9:56 PM, Rick Bedard wrote:



                                        Part one;
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DVAnCQJqLI

                                        Part two;
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NaNtUEMYgw

                                        --- On Tue, 2/2/10, D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...> wrote:

                                        From: D.G. Cassidy <d.cassidy@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.
                                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 11:54 AM



                                        Somewhere on the Web is a video of this system in action.
                                        Does anyone have the address for that?

                                        DGC

                                        On Feb 2, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Myles J. Swift wrote:



                                        Have you guys studied Matt Leyden’s approach? He has a lug with roller reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                                         
                                         
                                        MylesJ








                                      • Mark Albanese
                                        It s Kirby! http://www.kirbypaint.com/
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 3, 2010
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                                        • prairiedog2332
                                          Bolger drew an alternate balance lug sail plan for the Alaskan Motorsailer that shows what looks like a 2nd halyard further up the yard. Item #3 here:
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 3, 2010
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                                            Bolger drew an alternate balance lug sail plan for the Alaskan
                                            Motorsailer that shows what looks like a 2nd halyard further up the
                                            yard. Item #3 here:

                                            <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/ICpqS5QpJbz2dqcP4LM2x751DTmFUANW3sn5SidPT8\
                                            SY5_iYtWFxApAuAWnST6I5-EiTpqwnY7x1cd7IPMJofzvDQRxItw/Alaska%20Motorsaile\
                                            r%20%23610/Alaska_motorsailer_sailplan.jpg>

                                            If the link is too long, the diagram is in the first file at this group.

                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/

                                            Anybody know if this sail plan was ever written up somewhere? Looks like
                                            it has slab reefing lines leading back to the pilothouse, with lazy
                                            jacks to hold the battens onto the boom. To me this looks like a viable
                                            option to a junk rig without the sheetlet system complication.

                                            Nels
                                          • eric14850
                                            ... I expect the pretty reefs in those pictures were not put in while under way in conditions that deteriorated to the point of requiring a reef to be taken.
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Feb 13, 2010
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                                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Myles J. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Have you guys studied Matt Leyden's approach? He has a lug with roller
                                              > reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a
                                              > little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > http://www.microcruising.com/paradox1.htm
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > MylesJ
                                              >


                                              I expect the pretty reefs in those pictures were not put in while under way in conditions that deteriorated to the point of requiring a reef to be taken. Roller reefing is expensive, slow , complicated, and fails dangerously. Furthermore, roller reefing usually results in a sail that is not set well, or if the sail has been cut to reef well, it has been cut so it never does as good a job motivating the boat as a sail that has been cut properly without regard too reefing.

                                              Slab, also called Jiffy, reefing has none of these problems. On ROGUE I slack the halyard, tie the new luff tack to the boom, pull on the leech reef line (tied to the of the boom, feeds up through a reef grommet back down to a turning block on the boom and forward to a cleat on the boom), cleat it, and haul on the halyard to reset the sail. I can lower the sail just enough to reef it or all the way before reefing in. ROGUE's masts are freestanding. I have not tried, but I see no reason I can't put a reef in on any point of sail. I expect that sails to at least 500 sq ft rigged the same way I have rigged my sails could be could be handled by a 130 lb physically fit person without resorting to athletics (assuming reefing at the same wind strength I have reefed ROGUE at say first reef at Force 5: 18 to 24 mph). (The strongest winds I have sailed ROGUE in were measured on deck as stead 22+ mph gusting to 35 mph and there was no consideration of a second reef, though it is instantly available just as the first reef is.) Complicating and increasing the expense of a lug sail makes no sense at all. Primary reasons for choosing a lug sail are simplicity and low cost.
                                              Eric
                                            • John Huft
                                              I ve looked at it but haven t tried it yet. Looks pretty clever worth, worth trying with a polytarp sail. John Boy ________________________________ From:
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Feb 13, 2010
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                                                I've looked at it but haven't tried it yet.  Looks pretty clever worth, worth trying with a polytarp sail.
                                                John Boy



                                                From: eric14850 <eric14850@...>
                                                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sat, February 13, 2010 8:53:22 PM
                                                Subject: [bolger] Re: Reefing a lug sail.

                                                 

                                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "Myles J. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Have you guys studied Matt Leyden's approach? He has a lug with roller
                                                > reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a
                                                > little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > http://www.microcru ising.com/ paradox1. htm
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > MylesJ
                                                >

                                                I expect the pretty reefs in those pictures were not put in while under way in conditions that deteriorated to the point of requiring a reef to be taken. Roller reefing is expensive, slow , complicated, and fails dangerously. Furthermore, roller reefing usually results in a sail that is not set well, or if the sail has been cut to reef well, it has been cut so it never does as good a job motivating the boat as a sail that has been cut properly without regard too reefing.

                                                Slab, also called Jiffy, reefing has none of these problems. On ROGUE I slack the halyard, tie the new luff tack to the boom, pull on the leech reef line (tied to the of the boom, feeds up through a reef grommet back down to a turning block on the boom and forward to a cleat on the boom), cleat it, and haul on the halyard to reset the sail. I can lower the sail just enough to reef it or all the way before reefing in. ROGUE's masts are freestanding. I have not tried, but I see no reason I can't put a reef in on any point of sail. I expect that sails to at least 500 sq ft rigged the same way I have rigged my sails could be could be handled by a 130 lb physically fit person without resorting to athletics (assuming reefing at the same wind strength I have reefed ROGUE at say first reef at Force 5: 18 to 24 mph). (The strongest winds I have sailed ROGUE in were measured on deck as stead 22+ mph gusting to 35 mph and there was no consideration of a second reef, though it is instantly available just as the first reef is.) Complicating and increasing the expense of a lug sail makes no sense at all. Primary reasons for choosing a lug sail are simplicity and low cost.
                                                Eric


                                              • gary
                                                Actually, I ve seen the roller furled balanced lugs on Matt Layden-designed deployed, reefed, and lowered, while underway and all in seconds and with good sail
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Feb 14, 2010
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                                                  Actually, I've seen the roller furled balanced lugs on Matt Layden-designed deployed, reefed, and lowered, while underway and all in seconds and with good sail shape for the reefed sails. But they depend on a special fitting, shaped like a question mark. One goes in the center of the forward end of the boom and the other fits in a sort of pivoting, universal joint on deck. I think the proportions of his lugs are a bit different form a "normal" balanced lug to accommodate his roller reefing. Matt is an exceptional sailor and he wouldn't use the system unless it was ultra-simple and ultra-reliable. I'm not sure, though, his system would work on a really large balanced lug.

                                                  Eric's adaptation for controlling the yard when lowering looks ingenious. Have you posted pictures yet and I missed them? There is another way than those that have been discussed, but it involves a second line. In this case, the line if tied to the forward end of the yard, led to a block on deck (about a foot or so forward of where the front edge of the yard is when the sail is lowered) and than back to the mast or cockpit -- where ever you are when raising the sail. the line is used to pull down on the forward end of the yard, which consequently pivots up the aft end. I like the simplicity of the downhaul line not going to the mast, and hence it can't get hung up there. But it is a second line to handle.

                                                  I have been able to reef my balanced lug while underway. The normal practice is to be close reaching and ease the sail until the front edge luffs, but the back half of the sail is still drawing (an autopilot is steering if I'm alone). then the halyard is eased and luff and leech reefing lines, which are led to the cockpit via turning blocks at the mast, are hauled in. The halyard is tensioned, and off we go. This works on my 385 square foot sail.

                                                  Gary

                                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "eric14850" <eric14850@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Myles J. Swift" <mswift@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Have you guys studied Matt Leyden's approach? He has a lug with roller
                                                  > > reefing that works from the bottom up. Let the main down a little, furl a
                                                  > > little, until you reduce sail to the area needed.
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > http://www.microcruising.com/paradox1.htm
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > MylesJ
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > I expect the pretty reefs in those pictures were not put in while under way in conditions that deteriorated to the point of requiring a reef to be taken. Roller reefing is expensive, slow , complicated, and fails dangerously. Furthermore, roller reefing usually results in a sail that is not set well, or if the sail has been cut to reef well, it has been cut so it never does as good a job motivating the boat as a sail that has been cut properly without regard too reefing.
                                                  >
                                                  > Slab, also called Jiffy, reefing has none of these problems. On ROGUE I slack the halyard, tie the new luff tack to the boom, pull on the leech reef line (tied to the of the boom, feeds up through a reef grommet back down to a turning block on the boom and forward to a cleat on the boom), cleat it, and haul on the halyard to reset the sail. I can lower the sail just enough to reef it or all the way before reefing in. ROGUE's masts are freestanding. I have not tried, but I see no reason I can't put a reef in on any point of sail. I expect that sails to at least 500 sq ft rigged the same way I have rigged my sails could be could be handled by a 130 lb physically fit person without resorting to athletics (assuming reefing at the same wind strength I have reefed ROGUE at say first reef at Force 5: 18 to 24 mph). (The strongest winds I have sailed ROGUE in were measured on deck as stead 22+ mph gusting to 35 mph and there was no consideration of a second reef, though it is instantly available just as the first reef is.) Complicating and increasing the expense of a lug sail makes no sense at all. Primary reasons for choosing a lug sail are simplicity and low cost.
                                                  > Eric
                                                  >
                                                • Tim
                                                  John, Those photos are beautiful. They could all be postcards! Tim
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Apr 1, 2010
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                                                    John,

                                                    Those photos are beautiful. They could all be postcards!

                                                    Tim

                                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, John Weiss <jrweiss98155@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > A [moderately] balanced lug can be easily reefed...
                                                    >
                                                    > My balanced lug yawl-rig Nord Vinden has 2 slightly different
                                                    > configurations on main and mizzen. The main has a full-length batten
                                                    > that, when reefed, effectively turns the sail into a lateen. The mizzen
                                                    > has no batten, but I have never had the desire or occasion to reef it
                                                    > anyhow.
                                                    >
                                                    > http://www.tsca.net/puget/NordVinden.htm
                                                    >
                                                    > The lazyjacks help support the rig when struck, but the main comes down
                                                    > with the batten pretty much level anyhow. I've reefed (and shaken out
                                                    > the reef) a few times underway, and it's a leisurely event...
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Rick Bedard wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > For when you return a question or two...
                                                    > > Trying to understand your solution, I guess what I'm asking is how did
                                                    > > you determine how long that tag line to the yard is and where along the
                                                    > > halyard did you spliced it in. Is it slack when the halyard is fully
                                                    > > hoisted? While hoisting/lowering is the yard parallel to the boom or what?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Thanks,
                                                    > > Rick
                                                    >
                                                    > > --- On *Mon, 2/1/10, eric14850 /<eric14850@...>/* wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Gaff rigs have to have two halyards to control the yard. The lug
                                                    > > rig does not. I did not want to have the complication of two
                                                    > > halyards. I did much study of the junk, and lug sails, and a bit of
                                                    > > study of the lateen and gaff sails before settling on ROGUE's rig.
                                                    > > Long time ago. Not nearly so clear in mind as then. With Phil's
                                                    > > book 101 Small Boat Rigs I had a lot of fun debating different rig
                                                    > > configurations. Interior spaces had a lot of influence, especially
                                                    > > on my final decision.
                                                    > > Eric
                                                    >
                                                    > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > </mc/compose?to=bolger@yahoogroups.com>, Rick Bedard <sctree@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Thanks for that Eric. I'm pretty sure I'm going with a lug sail
                                                    > > on my current build. I'm even more inclined now that you've solved
                                                    > > the yard end-drop. Have you posted photos anywhere? What design is
                                                    > > Rogue?
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Thanks,
                                                    > > > Rick
                                                    >
                                                    > > > --- On Sun, 1/31/10, eric14850 <eric14850@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > An issue with reefing a lug sail is the problem that as soon as
                                                    > > the halyard is slacked the end of the yard comes down first. I
                                                    > > solved this problem by splicing a small line strong enough to
                                                    > > support the end of the yard and the sail below it to the halyard. I
                                                    > > spliced it to the halyard just long enough that it holds the yard
                                                    > > parallel to the boom (I have a balanced lug rig). I built a wide
                                                    > > block to accommodate both lines, but it self distructed and the
                                                    > > normal block I replaced it with has worked fine. This system works
                                                    > > perfectly in all winds up to 35mph (I have not been in stronger
                                                    > > winds but foresee no problems). I can lower the sail enough to tie
                                                    > > in a slab reef while the lazy jacks contain the sail, or I can cast
                                                    > > the halyard loose in a panic. As with a chinese lug rig, I can
                                                    > > lower or raise the sail on any heading. It is not necessary to head
                                                    > > into the wind. The yard and sail comes down nicely into the lazy
                                                    > > jacks. I've never read about this
                                                    > > > adaptation, so I think I can claim it as my own unique
                                                    > > improvement. It's simple and it seems to work well.
                                                    >
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