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Design Question

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  • templeagogo
    OK. Bolger s boats are just awesome! I love the square designs. The question I have is how much a boat can be changed before it just won t sail or is no longer
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 2, 2010
      OK. Bolger's boats are just awesome! I love the square designs. The question I have is how much a boat can be changed before it just won't sail or is no longer able safe. For instance, could a full height coach house be added to an AS39 along with a keel? Strange question, true, but we are looking for a short boat with a lot of room.

      Thanks!
      - J
    • the doctor
      On square boats:,,,, I ve been messing about in boats for 60 years... quite a lot of them in Jon-boats, or similar hull shapes... mostly used as fishing /
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 2, 2010
        On square boats:,,,, I've been messing about in boats for 60 years... quite a lot of them in Jon-boats, or similar hull shapes... mostly used as fishing / shrimping boats.
        A Jon-boat can be very successully sailed if it is loaded a bit heavy forward and allowed to heel,, there fore turing it into a ''sort'' of V bottom boat... not much, if any transom is left dragging.  Won't work down wind obviously..It also runs much smoother under power laid over a bit. 
         
        doc

        --- On Sat, 1/2/10, templeagogo <jlittl@...> wrote:

        From: templeagogo <jlittl@...>
        Subject: [bolger] Design Question
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 3:02 PM

         
        OK. Bolger's boats are just awesome! I love the square designs. The question I have is how much a boat can be changed before it just won't sail or is no longer able safe. For instance, could a full height coach house be added to an AS39 along with a keel? Strange question, true, but we are looking for a short boat with a lot of room.

        Thanks!
        - J


      • Tom
        You might take a look at my AS29 Island Time over in the photo section. I ve added a coach roof and the original builder used a swing keel instead of
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 2, 2010
          You might take a look at my AS29 "Island Time" over in the photo section. I've added a coach roof and the original builder used a swing keel instead of leeboards. The keel works well.

          Tom

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, the doctor <scotedoc2@...> wrote:
          >
          > On square boats:,,,, I've been messing about in boats for 60 years... quite a lot of them in Jon-boats, or similar hull shapes... mostly used as fishing / shrimping boats.
          > A Jon-boat can be very successully sailed if it is loaded a bit heavy forward and allowed to heel,, there fore turing it into a ''sort'' of V bottom boat... not much, if any transom is left dragging.  Won't work down wind obviously..It also runs much smoother under power laid over a bit. 
          >  
          > doc
          >
          > --- On Sat, 1/2/10, templeagogo <jlittl@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: templeagogo <jlittl@...>
          > Subject: [bolger] Design Question
          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 3:02 PM
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > OK. Bolger's boats are just awesome! I love the square designs. The question I have is how much a boat can be changed before it just won't sail or is no longer able safe. For instance, could a full height coach house be added to an AS39 along with a keel? Strange question, true, but we are looking for a short boat with a lot of room.
          >
          > Thanks!
          > - J
          >
        • templeagogo
          Nice! Are you working on the boat now? What do you think would happen if you added a second story ? I imagine the box shape loves to be loaded down with
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 2, 2010
            Nice! Are you working on the boat now?

            What do you think would happen if you added a "second story"? I imagine the box shape loves to be loaded down with weight. Maybe adding a fixed keel would lower the center of gravity from such a coach (or is a second story called a pilot house?)

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomseigler@...> wrote:
            >
            > You might take a look at my AS29 "Island Time" over in the photo section. I've added a coach roof and the original builder used a swing keel instead of leeboards. The keel works well.
            >
            > Tom
            >
            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, the doctor <scotedoc2@> wrote:
            > >
            > > On square boats:,,,, I've been messing about in boats for 60 years... quite a lot of them in Jon-boats, or similar hull shapes... mostly used as fishing / shrimping boats.
            > > A Jon-boat can be very successully sailed if it is loaded a bit heavy forward and allowed to heel,, there fore turing it into a ''sort'' of V bottom boat... not much, if any transom is left dragging.  Won't work down wind obviously..It also runs much smoother under power laid over a bit. 
            > >  
            > > doc
            > >
            > > --- On Sat, 1/2/10, templeagogo <jlittl@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > From: templeagogo <jlittl@>
            > > Subject: [bolger] Design Question
            > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 3:02 PM
            > >
            > >
            > >  
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > OK. Bolger's boats are just awesome! I love the square designs. The question I have is how much a boat can be changed before it just won't sail or is no longer able safe. For instance, could a full height coach house be added to an AS39 along with a keel? Strange question, true, but we are looking for a short boat with a lot of room.
            > >
            > > Thanks!
            > > - J
            > >
            >
          • Fred Schumacher
            ... I recommend expanding down, not up. Adding a box keel would provide full standing headroom throughout, lower the center of gravity and increase grounding
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 3, 2010
              On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 12:47 AM, templeagogo <jlittl@...> wrote:
               

              Nice! Are you working on the boat now?

              What do you think would happen if you added a "second story"? I imagine the box shape loves to be loaded down with weight. Maybe adding a fixed keel would lower the center of gravity from such a coach (or is a second story called a pilot house?)


              I recommend expanding down, not up. Adding a box keel would provide full standing headroom throughout, lower the center of gravity and increase grounding survival by allowing the addition of cheap steel plate ballast on the bottom of the keel, provide waterplane lateral resistance, increase the waterline length and top speed, and obviate the need for adding more top hamper.

              Fred
            • Tom
              I ve recently made the decision to keep the boat and will be going back to work on her. I ve decided to sail her as far as we can get. I will be adding a hard
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 3, 2010
                I've recently made the decision to keep the boat and will be going back to work on her. I've decided to sail her as far as we can get.

                I will be adding a hard dodger, but that is all the weight and windage I want to add. The original builder laid in 1000 lbs of lead and the keel weighs 1200lbs. By the time we are ready to leave, I expect to have an additional 1500 lbs of "stuff" stored low in the boat. The hull design means everything between the gunnels is ballast, and as long as it stays put if the boat gets rolled, she should self-right. I'm not concerned about being "knocked down" as the boat rounds up if healed more than 20 degrees. A fixed keel negates one of the most pleasing aspects of the boat; her ability to traverse shallow water.

                A pilot house is doable and would be desirable if you're coastal sailing or doing the intercoastal waterway. But it will add some serious windage. This has to be taken into account when selecting your engine and anchoring gear

                Tom
                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "templeagogo" <jlittl@...> wrote:
                >
                > Nice! Are you working on the boat now?
                >
                > What do you think would happen if you added a "second story"? I imagine the box shape loves to be loaded down with weight. Maybe adding a fixed keel would lower the center of gravity from such a coach (or is a second story called a pilot house?)
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomseigler@> wrote:
                > >
                > > You might take a look at my AS29 "Island Time" over in the photo section. I've added a coach roof and the original builder used a swing keel instead of leeboards. The keel works well.
                > >
                > > Tom
                > >
                > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, the doctor <scotedoc2@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > On square boats:,,,, I've been messing about in boats for 60 years... quite a lot of them in Jon-boats, or similar hull shapes... mostly used as fishing / shrimping boats.
                > > > A Jon-boat can be very successully sailed if it is loaded a bit heavy forward and allowed to heel,, there fore turing it into a ''sort'' of V bottom boat... not much, if any transom is left dragging.  Won't work down wind obviously..It also runs much smoother under power laid over a bit. 
                > > >  
                > > > doc
                > > >
                > > > --- On Sat, 1/2/10, templeagogo <jlittl@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > From: templeagogo <jlittl@>
                > > > Subject: [bolger] Design Question
                > > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 3:02 PM
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >  
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > OK. Bolger's boats are just awesome! I love the square designs. The question I have is how much a boat can be changed before it just won't sail or is no longer able safe. For instance, could a full height coach house be added to an AS39 along with a keel? Strange question, true, but we are looking for a short boat with a lot of room.
                > > >
                > > > Thanks!
                > > > - J
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • templeagogo
                Well, in our case it would do all but the last one. The extra room up top is important to the missus. How bad of an idea is it to do what you suggest to, say
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 3, 2010
                  Well, in our case it would do all but the last one. The extra room up top is important to the missus. How bad of an idea is it to do what you suggest to, say an AS39 or the Antispray then add a 2nd story pilot house?

                  Thank you very much for this!

                  - J

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 12:47 AM, templeagogo <jlittl@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Nice! Are you working on the boat now?
                  > >
                  > > What do you think would happen if you added a "second story"? I imagine the
                  > > box shape loves to be loaded down with weight. Maybe adding a fixed keel
                  > > would lower the center of gravity from such a coach (or is a second story
                  > > called a pilot house?)
                  > >
                  >
                  > I recommend expanding down, not up. Adding a box keel would provide full
                  > standing headroom throughout, lower the center of gravity and increase
                  > grounding survival by allowing the addition of cheap steel plate ballast on
                  > the bottom of the keel, provide waterplane lateral resistance, increase the
                  > waterline length and top speed, and obviate the need for adding more top
                  > hamper.
                  >
                  > Fred
                  >
                • djdecker2002
                  ... Perhaps you should look at the Fiji Yawl - same length as the AS39, with an extended pilothouse.
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 3, 2010
                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "templeagogo" <jlittl@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Well, in our case it would do all but the last one. The extra room up
                    > top is important to the missus. How bad of an idea is it to do what
                    > you suggest to, say an AS39 or the Antispray then add a 2nd story
                    > pilot house?
                    >

                    Perhaps you should look at the Fiji Yawl - same length as the AS39, with an extended pilothouse.
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