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Re: [bolger] Re: A little help is needed

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  • Bruce Hallman
    I just love my Tortoise, both for rowing and for sailing. I think a Tortoise can handle 6 2 x 275lbs. I am 6 0 195 and there is no problem. I also carry a
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 30, 2009
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      I just love my Tortoise, both for rowing and for sailing. I think a
      Tortoise can handle 6'2" x 275lbs. I am 6'0" 195 and there is no
      problem. I also carry a passenger, with a total crew weight of 350
      lbs. And, in calm warm water we have loaded four kids, 425lbs?. More
      weight actually makes the boat feel solid, though I suppose there
      would come a point that rough water or a boat wake would slosh water
      inside the boat. Of course, heavier weight makes her row, or sail,
      more slowly.

      On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:18 PM, haffdaddy <haffdaddy@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > A little help is needed. I'm 6'2" and around 275lbs, so is the Tortoise out of the question? A Brick seems to have a 1000 lb capacity but is almost as big as my car. The Elegant Punt would be a dream to build and seems to have a 600 lb capacity. Then there is the Apple Pie (not a Bolger design) 7 ft yacht tender. So what do you kind folks say?
      >
      > Thank you
      >
      > Greg Haff
      >
    • tlakin2002
      i have no experience sailing or rowing any of these boats yet, i m in the middle of an elegant punt build. it is proving much easier to build than i first
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
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        i have no experience sailing or rowing any of these boats yet, i'm in the middle of an elegant punt build. it is proving much easier to build than i first thought it would be, with cracking a chine log being the only real mishap at this point. i have zero experience with woodworking and i'm not going for show quality, just build experience and something to do over the colder months, so the quality of my materials isn't exactly optimum. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/12235211@N02/sets/72157622785582418/)

        the tortoise is supposed to be even easier to build. i nearly built it instead of the EP. i also like the look of the lateen rig on the tortoise quite a bit. whatever you build, though, i suggest making a model first. even if it's just paper and scotch tape, it will help you visualize how the bigger version goes together.

        -trevor





        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "haffdaddy" <haffdaddy@...> wrote:
        >
        > A little help is needed. I'm 6'2" and around 275lbs, so is the Tortoise out of the question? A Brick seems to have a 1000 lb capacity but is almost as big as my car. The Elegant Punt would be a dream to build and seems to have a 600 lb capacity. Then there is the Apple Pie (not a Bolger design) 7 ft yacht tender. So what do you kind folks say?
        >
        > Thank you
        >
        > Greg Haff
        >
      • wetherillc
        Puddle Duck Racer at PDRacer.com is based on Brick, not Tortoise as I posted previously (deleted post). Gross displacement is 650 pounds. LOA is 8 feet. V/R
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
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          Puddle Duck Racer at PDRacer.com is based on Brick, not Tortoise as I posted previously (deleted post). Gross displacement is 650 pounds. LOA is 8 feet.

          V/R
          Chris

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "tlakin2002" <tlakin2002@...> wrote:
          >
          > i have no experience sailing or rowing any of these boats yet, i'm in the middle of an elegant punt build. it is proving much easier to build than i first thought it would be, with cracking a chine log being the only real mishap at this point. i have zero experience with woodworking and i'm not going for show quality, just build experience and something to do over the colder months, so the quality of my materials isn't exactly optimum. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/12235211@N02/sets/72157622785582418/)
          >
          > the tortoise is supposed to be even easier to build. i nearly built it instead of the EP. i also like the look of the lateen rig on the tortoise quite a bit. whatever you build, though, i suggest making a model first. even if it's just paper and scotch tape, it will help you visualize how the bigger version goes together.
          >
          > -trevor
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "haffdaddy" <haffdaddy@> wrote:
          > >
          > > A little help is needed. I'm 6'2" and around 275lbs, so is the Tortoise out of the question? A Brick seems to have a 1000 lb capacity but is almost as big as my car. The Elegant Punt would be a dream to build and seems to have a 600 lb capacity. Then there is the Apple Pie (not a Bolger design) 7 ft yacht tender. So what do you kind folks say?
          > >
          > > Thank you
          > >
          > > Greg Haff
          > >
          >
        • adventures_in_astrophotography
          Greg, ... In between Brick and Tortoise lies Big Tortoise, plans available from Payson. This is an 8 Tortoise on the same beam, so it s not as heavy or wide
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
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            Greg,

            > A little help is needed. I'm 6'2" and around 275lbs, so is the Tortoise out of the question? A Brick seems to have a 1000 lb capacity but is almost as big as my car. The Elegant Punt would be a dream to build and seems to have a 600 lb capacity. Then there is the Apple Pie (not a Bolger design) 7 ft yacht tender. So what do you kind folks say?


            In between Brick and Tortoise lies Big Tortoise, plans available from Payson. This is an 8' Tortoise on the same beam, so it's not as heavy or wide as a Brick, but has around 25% more capacity than the standard Tortoise. My dog and I total about 250 lbs. and it handles us just fine. The Rubens Nymph is another possibility, but the footprint of that one is close to a Brick, although it's a finer shape.

            Jon Kolb
            www.kolbsadventures.com
          • Bruce Hallman
            ... As capacity goes up with volume, not length, I suspect that the Big Tortoise has even more than 25% greater capacity. It might be a fine choice. Though,
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
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              > In between Brick and Tortoise lies Big Tortoise, plans available from Payson. This is an 8' Tortoise on the same beam, so it's not as heavy or wide as a Brick, but has around 25% more capacity than the standard Tortoise.

              As capacity goes up with volume, not length, I suspect that the Big
              Tortoise has even more than 25% greater capacity. It might be a fine
              choice. Though, I suggest being aware of the excellent advantage of a
              plain Tortoise, which is it being of light weight and compact shape
              making it extremely handy and portable. Bigger boats fail in that
              regard. I made my second Tortoise out of 1/8" plywood to exploit this
              'light weight' advantage, and it is very handy to have a boat that I
              can casually toss on top the car without needing surgery for a hernia.
            • adventures_in_astrophotography
              Hi Bruce, ... ...snip... Increasing length increases volume, even if breadth and depth are not changed. If the boat is scaled up in only one dimension, length
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 2, 2009
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                Hi Bruce,

                > As capacity goes up with volume, not length, I suspect that the Big
                > Tortoise has even more than 25% greater capacity.
                ...snip...

                Increasing length increases volume, even if breadth and depth are not changed.

                If the boat is scaled up in only one dimension, length being a good example, the increase in volume, and thus displacement, is proportional only to the change in that dimension. Big Tortoise is 23% longer than Tortoise on the same beam, but I'm not sure about depth. Assuming that depth is the same as the original, it's tempting to say that Big Tortoise would displace 23% more.

                However, that would imply pure lengthwise scaling, which would increase the rake of the bow transom and flatten the rocker of the bottom. I suspect that the rake of the transom was not increased on Big Tortoise, and so she's going to have a slightly fuller forward bottom volume than if she were simply scaled from the original. Thus, I said "around 25% more" as an estimate of the actual increase in capacity. Obviously if the depth was increased too, the increase in capacity will be greater still.

                Jon
              • Christopher C. Wetherill
                Displacement of Tortoise is given on plans as 300 lb at wl just below transoms. At the equivalent point on Brick, the displacement is given as 875 lb. See
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 2, 2009
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                  Displacement of Tortoise is given on plans as 300 lb at wl just below transoms.  At the  equivalent point on Brick, the displacement is given as 875 lb.  See page 88 of Build The New Instant Boats for Tortoise and page 7 of Boats with an Open Mind for Brick.

                  another point that may be worth mentioning is that the instant boats series are designed such that lofting is not necessary.

                  V/R
                  Chris


                  adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
                  Hi Bruce,
                  
                    
                  As capacity goes up with volume, not length, I suspect that the Big
                  Tortoise has even more than 25% greater capacity.  
                      
                  ...snip...
                  
                  Increasing length increases volume, even if breadth and depth are not changed.  
                  
                  If the boat is scaled up in only one dimension, length being a good example, the increase in volume, and thus displacement, is proportional only to the change in that dimension.  Big Tortoise is 23% longer than Tortoise on the same beam, but I'm not sure about depth.  Assuming that depth is the same as the original, it's tempting to say that Big Tortoise would displace 23% more.  
                  
                  However, that would imply pure lengthwise scaling, which would increase the rake of the bow transom and flatten the rocker of the bottom.  I suspect that the rake of the transom was not increased on Big Tortoise, and so she's going to have a slightly fuller forward bottom volume than if she were simply scaled from the original.  Thus, I said "around 25% more" as an estimate of the actual increase in capacity.  Obviously if the depth was increased too, the increase in capacity will be greater still.
                  
                  Jon  
                  
                  
                  
                    
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