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Re: AS 29 - re the diesel outboard

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  • Myles J. Swift
    You can get a diesel outboard. I believe the Yanmar has been approved for use in the US. But, it will take a really long time to break even on the price
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 11, 2009

      You can get a diesel outboard. I believe the Yanmar has been approved for use in the US. But, it will take a really long time to break even on the price difference and it weighs at least 3 times more than a 4 stroke of equivalent HP. The extra weight is no problem on something the size of an AS-29. There are a couple of other brands available but I don’t know if you can bring them to the US.

       

      MylesJ

       

    • Roger Padvorac
      Miles, that is really interesting. Have you heard it, is it much noisier than a gasoline outboard engine? Even if it takes a long time for the extra cost to
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 11, 2009
        Miles, that is really interesting. Have you heard it, is it much noisier than a gasoline outboard engine?
         
        Even if it takes a long time for the extra cost to pay off, it seems that improved reliability that diesel engines generally have over gasoline engines, and the safer fuel, would be worth it if you can afford the cost and weight of the engine.
         
        This plus the ability to tip it up when beaching the boat seems like a good deal if somebody is going to spend a lot of time messing about and living aboard on or near the beach.
         
        Sincerely,
        Roger
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:15 AM
        Subject: [bolger] Re: AS 29 - re the diesel outboard

        You can get a diesel outboard. I believe the Yanmar has been approved for use in the US. But, it will take a really long time to break even on the price difference and it weighs at least 3 times more than a 4 stroke of equivalent HP. The extra weight is no problem on something the size of an AS-29. There are a couple of other brands available but I don’t know if you can bring them to the US.

        MylesJ

      • prairiedog2332
        http://www.goodsdirect.net/dieseloutboard.htm ... for ... the ... of ... an ... if you
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 11, 2009
          http://www.goodsdirect.net/dieseloutboard.htm

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Myles J. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
          >
          > You can get a diesel outboard. I believe the Yanmar has been approved
          for
          > use in the US. But, it will take a really long time to break even on
          the
          > price difference and it weighs at least 3 times more than a 4 stroke
          of
          > equivalent HP. The extra weight is no problem on something the size of
          an
          > AS-29. There are a couple of other brands available but I don't know
          if you
          > can bring them to the US.
          >
          >
          >
          > MylesJ
          >
        • Douglas Pollard
          ... Yes I will take a look at them. The extra weight wouldn t mater much except it s on the end of the boat. That still may not matter. I guess they are noisy
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 11, 2009
            Myles J. Swift wrote:
            >
            > You can get a diesel outboard. I believe the Yanmar has been approved
            > for use in the US. But, it will take a really long time to break even
            > on the price difference and it weighs at least 3 times more than a 4
            > stroke of equivalent HP. The extra weight is no problem on something
            > the size of an AS-29. There are a couple of other brands available but
            > I don’t know if you can bring them to the US.
            >
            > MylesJ
            >
            >
            Yes I will take a look at them. The extra weight wouldn't mater much
            except it's on the end of the boat. That still may not matter. I guess
            they are noisy but that's not a lot of a problem either. Though they are
            heavy they may wind up lighter as there may be less need to carry a lot
            of fuel. Most fuel is needed when running a narrow waterway and thats
            the very place you can get fuel every couple days. When coasting fuel is
            only needed to run inlets charge batteries and run refrigeration. As a
            live aboard boat these things will be needed. I don't know if batteries
            can be charged with a diesel outboard or if this can be solved with wind
            generators and solar panels. I have lived aboard a lot but have no
            experience with these other power methods as we did all this with the
            engine. When choosing a shallow draft boat there are problems involved.
            Deep draft boats have plenty of places below the cabin sole for water,
            fuel and holding tanks and sometimes even an engine along with a lot of
            the spare junk that usually needs to go along. You can't take them in
            shallow water so it's all trade offs. Anyway I have a lot of things to
            consider.
            We have even been concidering buying a mobile hom to live in part of the
            year and a smallish sailboat to cruise 6 months at a time. I checked at
            the suggestion of someone on boatdesign list that A catalina 27 might be
            a good boat for that. They built a lot of them so it's not hard to find
            one, they are cheap used, and there is one model that draws 3 1/2 ft.
            that is not to bad and some have inboard diesels. They can be bought,
            decent ones for $10,000 to a really nice one for $15,000. The only
            problem with them is I used to call them Clorox bottles so I would have
            to eat some crow :-) . They do have a fin keel and spade rudder, so you
            likely can't leave the helm for a second, but I guess todays auto pilots
            might take care of that. I sure have some thinking to do.
            Doug
          • prairiedog2332
            This inboard might work in a shallow hull like the AS29. http://www.goodsdirect.net/gearbox.htm Engine choice is optional I think. ... the ... That is what I
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 11, 2009
              This inboard might work in a shallow hull like the AS29.

              http://www.goodsdirect.net/gearbox.htm

              Engine choice is optional I think.

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:

              > We have even been considering buying a mobile hom to live in part of
              the
              > year and a smallish sailboat to cruise 6 months at a time.

              That is what I have done. Mobile on riverfront property, complete with a
              long double driveway and heated shop with running water. Taxes way
              lower than marina fees.

              When the winds blow strong it even rocks and creaks at night:-)

              Nels
            • Michael Wagner
              On the AS-29, the weight of the outboard will make a big difference in trim. We have a Suzuki 9.9 HT with power tilt that weighs about 118 #. That s more than
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 11, 2009
                On the AS-29, the weight of the outboard will make a big difference in trim.

                We have a Suzuki 9.9 HT with power tilt that weighs about 118 #. That's more than Bolger specified in the plans. We had to modify the motor mounting board to handle the power tilt mechanism. All that added weight astern meant we had to relocate gear to keep the boat in trim. If the diesel outboard is even heavier than that, I would be very reluctant to use it on this boat.

                Remember, the designed displacement of the whole boat is supposed to be about 7500# (we're more like 8000#) and adding 100 # at one end makes a big difference.

                We are very pleased with our Suzuki. It even has a 12 amp alternator so it helps keep our batteries up.  It pushes us at hull speed at just over half throttle. Can't do better than that.

                The power tilt feature is a real plus. That motor well is a real pain to climb down into. You don't want to have to climb down every time you want to use the engine, or when you set or douse the sails. If you don't get power tilt, you will want to rig some kind of gear to raise and lower the engine without climbing down into the well.

                --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Myles J. Swift <mswift@...> wrote:

                From: Myles J. Swift <mswift@...>
                Subject: [bolger] Re: AS 29 - re the diesel outboard
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 1:15 PM

                 

                You can get a diesel outboard. I believe the Yanmar has been approved for use in the US. But, it will take a really long time to break even on the price difference and it weighs at least 3 times more than a 4 stroke of equivalent HP. The extra weight is no problem on something the size of an AS-29. There are a couple of other brands available but I don’t know if you can bring them to the US.

                 

                MylesJ

                 


              • John Bell
                I ll bet it would never pay for itself. A fully optioned out long shaft 9.9 fourstroke with remote controls and power trim won t cost $3000 new and installed.
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 11, 2009
                  I'll bet it would never pay for itself. A fully optioned out long shaft 9.9 fourstroke with remote controls and power trim won't cost $3000 new and installed. It will also be lighter, smoother, and quieter as well.
                   
                  Last I heard a Yanmar 1GM10 plus gearbox was $5000-6000 not including shaft and prop. Add more for a fuel tank, filters, stuffing box, through hulls,and whatnot and you're into eight bills easy.
                   
                  Looking around the web it appears Yanmar has stopped producing them. It looked like they were 27 and 36HP, weighed 250 lbs and cost around $8000-9000. 
                   
                   
                  AS-29 was designed for inexpensive outboard power, anyway. Why try to put lipstick on a pig?
                   

                   
                  On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Myles J. Swift <mswift@...> wrote:
                   

                  You can get a diesel outboard. I believe the Yanmar has been approved for use in the US. But, it will take a really long time to break even on the price difference and it weighs at least 3 times more than a 4 stroke of equivalent HP. The extra weight is no problem on something the size of an AS-29. There are a couple of other brands available but I don’t know if you can bring them to the US.

                   

                  MylesJ

                   

                • Douglas Pollard
                  ... I think 27 horsepower is way too much for an AS29 anyway I had an 8 horse yanmar in my Wolftrap thirty and that was underpowered but she made her way to
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 11, 2009
                    John Bell wrote:
                    >
                    > I'll bet it would never pay for itself. A fully optioned out long
                    > shaft 9.9 fourstroke with remote controls and power trim won't cost
                    > $3000 new and installed. It will also be lighter, smoother, and
                    > quieter as well.
                    >
                    > Last I heard a Yanmar 1GM10 plus gearbox was $5000-6000 not including
                    > shaft and prop. Add more for a fuel tank, filters, stuffing box,
                    > through hulls,and whatnot and you're into eight bills easy.
                    >
                    > Looking around the web it appears Yanmar has stopped producing them.
                    > It looked like they were 27 and 36HP, weighed 250 lbs and cost around
                    > $8000-9000.
                    >
                    >
                    > AS-29 was designed for inexpensive outboard power, anyway. Why try to
                    > put lipstick on a pig?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Myles J. Swift
                    > <mswift@... <mailto:mswift@...>>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > You can get a diesel outboard. I believe the Yanmar has been
                    > approved for use in the US. But, it will take a really long time
                    > to break even on the price difference and it weighs at least 3
                    > times more than a 4 stroke of equivalent HP. The extra weight is
                    > no problem on something the size of an AS-29. There are a couple
                    > of other brands available but I don’t know if you can bring them
                    > to the US.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > MylesJ
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    I think 27 horsepower is way too much for an AS29 anyway I had an 8
                    horse yanmar in my Wolftrap thirty and that was underpowered but she
                    made her way to Florida from Virginia and back on the water way twice
                    but was worn out due to lugging so likely a 12 or 16 horse motor would
                    have been perfect. They also wear out from idling, a gasoline engine can
                    idle for ever. A deisel engine should run 1200 0r 1600 rpms at all
                    times when charging batteries or refrigerators. Believing all this I
                    still like the diesel inboard engine. I have not owned a 4 stroke
                    outboard so will have to take others word for it that they are as good a
                    claimed.


                    Doug
                  • Douglas Pollard
                    ... A Chesapeake bay waterman told me that there is no advantage to a computerized gasoline engine in a boat. He said they run at one speed almost all the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 11, 2009
                      John Bell wrote:
                      >
                      > I'll bet it would never pay for itself. A fully optioned out long
                      > shaft 9.9 fourstroke with remote controls and power trim won't cost
                      > $3000 new and installed. It will also be lighter, smoother, and
                      > quieter as well.
                      >
                      > Last I heard a Yanmar 1GM10 plus gearbox was $5000-6000 not including
                      > shaft and prop. Add more for a fuel tank, filters, stuffing box,
                      > through hulls,and whatnot and you're into eight bills easy.
                      >
                      > Looking around the web it appears Yanmar has stopped producing them.
                      > It looked like they were 27 and 36HP, weighed 250 lbs and cost around
                      > $8000-9000.
                      >
                      >
                      > AS-29 was designed for inexpensive outboard power, anyway. Why try to
                      > put lipstick on a pig?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Myles J. Swift
                      > <mswift@... <mailto:mswift@...>>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > You can get a diesel outboard. I believe the Yanmar has been
                      > approved for use in the US. But, it will take a really long time
                      > to break even on the price difference and it weighs at least 3
                      > times more than a 4 stroke of equivalent HP. The extra weight is
                      > no problem on something the size of an AS-29. There are a couple
                      > of other brands available but I don’t know if you can bring them
                      > to the US.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > MylesJ
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      A Chesapeake bay waterman told me that there is no advantage to a
                      computerized gasoline engine in a boat. He said they run at one speed
                      almost all the time and the computer saves fuel with speed ups and slow
                      downs in trucks and cars. But are of little advantage in a boat. I
                      don't know?


                      Doug.
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