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Re: Design for canoe race?

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  • rowerwet
    get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 4, 2009
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      get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
      here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
      josh.

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Chris,
      > >
      > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
      > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
      > >
      > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
      > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
      > >
      > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
      > >
      > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
      > >
      > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
      > >
      > > Jon
      > >
      >
      > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
      >
    • franklin_newhart
      I went to your site and looked at your rowing canoe but I also poked around and noticed your sailing canoe. This is very interesting in that I used to travel
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 4, 2009
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        I went to your site and looked at your rowing canoe but I also poked around and noticed your sailing canoe. This is very interesting in that I used to travel in Algonquin park a lot and often traveled with other family so we had two canoes. On large lakes we had a method of jury rigging a catamaran. Run two spruce poles twelve feet long across the two canoes and lash them on both gunales on both boats. Any shorter and the water will pile up in between and swamp the canoes. That is four lashings per pole. Now in the centre of the front pole erect a 12 foot mast. This will take a 6 by twelve ground sheet vinal tarp. Guy the mast with four lines. Two to the front of the canoes and two to the back cross pole on each gunwale. Now take another pole and lash it loose to the bottom of the mast. Attach the upper corners of the tarp to the top of the mast and the other end of the pole. One bottom corner goes to the base of the mast and the outer lower corner is loose footed. It requires no cutting of the tarp. This is a rig that can be found in Phill Bolgers 100 Boat Rigs. It works marvelous and is not enough sail to make the jury dangerous yet gives good speed. No keels are needed and you use your paddals for rudders.

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@...> wrote:
        >
        > get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
        > here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
        > josh.
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi Chris,
        > > >
        > > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
        > > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
        > > >
        > > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
        > > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
        > > >
        > > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
        > > >
        > > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
        > > >
        > > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
        > > >
        > > > Jon
        > > >
        > >
        > > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
        > >
        >
      • footstepfollower64
        I appreciate this idea! I will follow up on this...
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 5, 2009
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          I appreciate this idea! I will follow up on this...

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@...> wrote:
          >
          > get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
          > here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
          > josh.
          >
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Chris,
          > > >
          > > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
          > > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
          > > >
          > > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
          > > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
          > > >
          > > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
          > > >
          > > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
          > > >
          > > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
          > > >
          > > > Jon
          > > >
          > >
          > > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
          > >
          >
        • rowerwet
          or keep one guy paddling and steering and the other rowing his brains out. let me know how you do if you try it in the race. josh
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 6, 2009
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            or keep one guy paddling and steering and the other rowing his brains out. let me know how you do if you try it in the race.
            josh

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
            >
            > I appreciate this idea! I will follow up on this...
            >
            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@> wrote:
            > >
            > > get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
            > > here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
            > > josh.
            > >
            > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi Chris,
            > > > >
            > > > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
            > > > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
            > > > >
            > > > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
            > > > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
            > > > >
            > > > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
            > > > >
            > > > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
            > > > >
            > > > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
            > > > >
            > > > > Jon
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • franklin_newhart
            It is possible they might disqualify you for rowing instead of paddling. Some race officials get anal about rules and things like that.
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 7, 2009
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              It is possible they might disqualify you for rowing instead of paddling. Some race officials get anal about rules and things like that.

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@...> wrote:
              >
              > or keep one guy paddling and steering and the other rowing his brains out. let me know how you do if you try it in the race.
              > josh
              >
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I appreciate this idea! I will follow up on this...
              > >
              > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
              > > > here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
              > > > josh.
              > > >
              > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Hi Chris,
              > > > > >
              > > > > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
              > > > > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
              > > > > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
              > > > > >
              > > > > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Jon
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • footstepfollower64
              Actually, the rules and judges are not that tight. It was originally a canoe race but they allowed the kayaks that eventually showed up...
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 8, 2009
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                Actually, the rules and judges are not that tight. It was originally a canoe race but they allowed the kayaks that eventually showed up...


                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "franklin_newhart" <franklin_newhart@...> wrote:
                >
                > It is possible they might disqualify you for rowing instead of paddling. Some race officials get anal about rules and things like that.
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@> wrote:
                > >
                > > or keep one guy paddling and steering and the other rowing his brains out. let me know how you do if you try it in the race.
                > > josh
                > >
                > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I appreciate this idea! I will follow up on this...
                > > >
                > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
                > > > > here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
                > > > > josh.
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Hi Chris,
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
                > > > > > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
                > > > > > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Jon
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • franklin_newhart
                Yeah. If you can have a whole crew then maybe you can tackle it with a dragon boat or even a voyager canoe. Get a dozen French Canadians in the Dragon boat
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 9, 2009
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                  Yeah. If you can have a whole crew then maybe you can tackle it with a dragon boat or even a voyager canoe. Get a dozen French Canadians in the Dragon boat and David Suzuki and friends in the voyager canoe or vice versa. Oh yeah and add a Haida War Canoe too. Make for a great ol time. Add a family of Tahitians in an outrigger canoe and who knows what else we can round up. Make a wonderful reggata. Sombody put a torch in the front of one and paddel into Vancouver and we might even call the Reggata some nice name lik the Olimpics or something like that. Oh they did that already didn't they.

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > How many crew are you allowed, the Naval Jelly is a great solution if
                  > you have a gang. Seth Macinko has built a couple and can give further
                  > comments.
                  >
                  > HJ
                  >
                  > footstepfollower64 wrote:
                  > > My brother entered a canoe race last weekend, and we are planning to run it together next year. There are no hard and fast rules involved (pretty informal) so I was wondering what type of boat I could build for us to use. I assume kayaks are quicker than canoes, but are rowboats or sculling type boats faster yet? Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
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