Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Design for canoe race?

Expand Messages
  • footstepfollower64
    My brother entered a canoe race last weekend, and we are planning to run it together next year. There are no hard and fast rules involved (pretty informal) so
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 28, 2009
      My brother entered a canoe race last weekend, and we are planning to run it together next year. There are no hard and fast rules involved (pretty informal) so I was wondering what type of boat I could build for us to use. I assume kayaks are quicker than canoes, but are rowboats or sculling type boats faster yet? Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?
    • adventures_in_astrophotography
      ... Bolger s Long Light Dory (#526) is frequently raced by two-man crews in the Blackburn Challenge, a hand-propelled race around Cape Ann, MA. I built one
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 28, 2009
        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
        >
        > My brother entered a canoe race last weekend, and we are planning to run it together next year. There are no hard and fast rules involved (pretty informal) so I was wondering what type of boat I could build for us to use. I assume kayaks are quicker than canoes, but are rowboats or sculling type boats faster yet? Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?
        >


        Bolger's Long Light Dory (#526) is frequently raced by two-man crews in the Blackburn Challenge, a hand-propelled race around Cape Ann, MA. I built one that we very much enjoy, and it's always an attention-grabber here in the mountain west. With two rowers, it's plenty fast for our purposes, and it carries a lot of gear when asked.
        http://www.kolbsadventures.com/long_dory_1.htm

        That said, I doubt it would be any match for a double sea or racing kayak. The long overhangs that give the dory it's good looks also reduce the waterline length, and thus limit the potential speed. A long, narrow, sliding-seat boat with outriggers and long oars would be a better choice if you want to win the race. If you want a boat that's useful for camping trips, fishing, and general messing about with casual racing as a secondary purpose, build the dory. You might not finish first, but you'll look good losing and be able to haul a lot of beer to the finish line.

        Jon Kolb
        www.kolbsadventures.com
      • Christopher C. Wetherill
        Isn t it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance, a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues. Chris
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 28, 2009
          Isn't it important to know the nature of the course?  If, for instance, a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.

          Chris

          adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
            
          My brother entered a canoe race last weekend, and we are planning to run it together next year. There are no hard and fast rules involved (pretty informal) so I was wondering what type of boat I could build for us to use. I assume kayaks are quicker than canoes, but are rowboats or sculling type boats faster yet? Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?
          
              
          
          Bolger's Long Light Dory (#526) is frequently raced by two-man crews in the Blackburn Challenge, a hand-propelled race around Cape Ann, MA.  I built one that we very much enjoy, and it's always an attention-grabber here in the mountain west.  With two rowers, it's plenty fast for our purposes, and it carries a lot of gear when asked.
          http://www.kolbsadventures.com/long_dory_1.htm
          
          That said, I doubt it would be any match for a double sea or racing kayak.  The long overhangs that give the dory it's good looks also reduce the waterline length, and thus limit the potential speed.  A long, narrow, sliding-seat boat with outriggers and long oars would be a better choice if you want to win the race.  If you want a boat that's useful for camping trips, fishing, and general messing about with casual racing as a secondary purpose, build the dory.  You might not finish first, but you'll look good losing and be able to haul a lot of beer to the finish line.
          
          Jon Kolb
          www.kolbsadventures.com
          
          
            
        • adventures_in_astrophotography
          Hi Chris, ... Agreed, but the original question asked was Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race? A portage wasn t mentioned,
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 28, 2009
            Hi Chris,

            > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
            > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.

            Agreed, but the original question asked was
            "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"

            A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.

            It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.

            It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.

            Jon
          • Bruce Hallman
            Depends on lots which is not yet said... If your wish list includes cheap, lightweight and easy to build...and your intended race course is relatively
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 28, 2009
              Depends on lots which is not yet said...

              If your wish list includes cheap, lightweight and easy to build...and
              your intended race course is relatively protected water...the Bolger
              design "Yellow Leaf" was created to be a two man canoe for use in a
              race.

              I have built and used one, and can attest it is plenty serviceable as
              a two person paddle powered boat, also a super easy build and easy to
              carry and cartop.

              http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/tags/yellowleaf/
            • John Bell
              I ve raced canoes and kayaks before in ACA sanctioned events. I ve also been scrutineer and boat inspector responsible for determining classification and
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 28, 2009
                I've raced canoes and kayaks before in ACA sanctioned events. I've
                also been scrutineer and boat inspector responsible for determining
                classification and legality of a particular boat for those events.
                Usually the rules for race define what is and what is not legal for a
                particular class in a race. The rules will define how a particular
                boat will be classified based on a number of factors e. g. length,
                beam, material of costruction, number of paddlers etc. All the races
                I've been in would not allow a rowing boat to compete. Before you
                commit to building a boat, make sure what you build will be allowed to
                compete!

                Other than that, I agree the 19' Big Dory would be an excellent choice.

                On 10/28/09, adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...> wrote:
                > Hi Chris,
                >
                >> Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
                >> a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
                >
                > Agreed, but the original question asked was
                > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
                >
                > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game.
                > Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage
                > compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with
                > outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a
                > canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how
                > serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less
                > competitive, but more generally useful boat.
                >
                > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with
                > wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and
                > consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with
                > the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you
                > have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and
                > so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part
                > of the course.
                >
                > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and
                > portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers
                > across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the
                > racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a
                > non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
                >
                > Jon
                >
                >

                --
                Sent from my mobile device
              • Christopher C. Wetherill
                Jon, At one point he asked about a canoe race I was thinking about that question and about PCB s write-up for Navel Jelly in The Folding Schooner. There
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 28, 2009
                  Jon,

                  At one point he asked about a "canoe race"  I was thinking about that question and about PCB's write-up for "Navel Jelly" in The Folding Schooner.  There is also a race in Florida that involves at least the posibility of having to carry a sailboat.  This is, however, only a single aspect of a larger question.  The boat type needs to be appropriate to the conditions.  A two-man rowing race on the Charles will be substantially different from a two-man race around Cape Ann.  The point I am trying to emphasize is that a definite answer is difficult given the level of detail in the question as stated.

                  V/R
                  Chris

                  adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
                  Hi Chris,
                  
                    
                  Isn't it important to know the nature of the course?  If, for instance, 
                  a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
                      
                  Agreed, but the original question asked was
                  "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
                  
                  A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game.  Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe.  If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down.  A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
                  
                  It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use.  Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on.  If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.   
                  
                  It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging.  How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between?  Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.  
                  
                  Jon
                  
                  
                  
                  ------------------------------------
                  
                  Bolger rules!!!
                  - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
                  - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                  - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts 
                  - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  - Unsubscribe:  bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                  
                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
                  
                  <*> Your email settings:
                      Individual Email | Traditional
                  
                  <*> To change settings online go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/join
                      (Yahoo! ID required)
                  
                  <*> To change settings via email:
                      mailto:bolger-digest@yahoogroups.com 
                      mailto:bolger-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                  
                  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  
                  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  
                  
                    
                • Christopher C. Wetherill
                  I need to correct myself. I was actually thinking of the scenario in Yellow Leaf already mentioned by another respondent. The point remains that along with
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 28, 2009
                    I need to correct myself.  I was actually thinking of the scenario in Yellow Leaf already mentioned by another respondent.  The point remains that along with the rules, the prevailing conditions should be addressed when selecting a boat type.  Personaly, if rowing were allowed and waters were basically calm, I would look at a long peapod or a whitehall (or other similar type).

                    V/R
                    Chris

                    Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
                    Jon,

                    At one point he asked about a "canoe race"  I was thinking about that question and about PCB's write-up for "Navel Jelly" in The Folding Schooner.  There is also a race in Florida that involves at least the posibility of having to carry a sailboat.  This is, however, only a single aspect of a larger question.  The boat type needs to be appropriate to the conditions.  A two-man rowing race on the Charles will be substantially different from a two-man race around Cape Ann.  The point I am trying to emphasize is that a definite answer is difficult given the level of detail in the question as stated.

                    V/R
                    Chris
                    __
                  • Harry James
                    How many crew are you allowed, the Naval Jelly is a great solution if you have a gang. Seth Macinko has built a couple and can give further comments. HJ
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 28, 2009
                      How many crew are you allowed, the Naval Jelly is a great solution if
                      you have a gang. Seth Macinko has built a couple and can give further
                      comments.

                      HJ

                      footstepfollower64 wrote:
                      > My brother entered a canoe race last weekend, and we are planning to run it together next year. There are no hard and fast rules involved (pretty informal) so I was wondering what type of boat I could build for us to use. I assume kayaks are quicker than canoes, but are rowboats or sculling type boats faster yet? Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                    • footstepfollower64
                      ... That is one gorgeous boat! I wish I knew realistically how this would hold up against a tandem kayak...
                      Message 10 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009
                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > My brother entered a canoe race last weekend, and we are planning to run it together next year. There are no hard and fast rules involved (pretty informal) so I was wondering what type of boat I could build for us to use. I assume kayaks are quicker than canoes, but are rowboats or sculling type boats faster yet? Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bolger's Long Light Dory (#526) is frequently raced by two-man crews in the Blackburn Challenge, a hand-propelled race around Cape Ann, MA. I built one that we very much enjoy, and it's always an attention-grabber here in the mountain west. With two rowers, it's plenty fast for our purposes, and it carries a lot of gear when asked.
                        > http://www.kolbsadventures.com/long_dory_1.htm
                        >
                        > That said, I doubt it would be any match for a double sea or racing kayak. The long overhangs that give the dory it's good looks also reduce the waterline length, and thus limit the potential speed. A long, narrow, sliding-seat boat with outriggers and long oars would be a better choice if you want to win the race. If you want a boat that's useful for camping trips, fishing, and general messing about with casual racing as a secondary purpose, build the dory. You might not finish first, but you'll look good losing and be able to haul a lot of beer to the finish line.
                        >
                        > Jon Kolb
                        > www.kolbsadventures.com
                        >

                        That is one gorgeous boat! I wish I knew realistically how this would hold up against a tandem kayak...
                      • footstepfollower64
                        ... There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes
                        Message 11 of 18 , Nov 2, 2009
                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Chris,
                          >
                          > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
                          > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
                          >
                          > Agreed, but the original question asked was
                          > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
                          >
                          > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
                          >
                          > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
                          >
                          > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
                          >
                          > Jon
                          >

                          There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
                        • rowerwet
                          get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an
                          Message 12 of 18 , Nov 4, 2009
                            get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
                            here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
                            josh.

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hi Chris,
                            > >
                            > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
                            > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
                            > >
                            > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
                            > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
                            > >
                            > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
                            > >
                            > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
                            > >
                            > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
                            > >
                            > > Jon
                            > >
                            >
                            > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
                            >
                          • franklin_newhart
                            I went to your site and looked at your rowing canoe but I also poked around and noticed your sailing canoe. This is very interesting in that I used to travel
                            Message 13 of 18 , Nov 4, 2009
                              I went to your site and looked at your rowing canoe but I also poked around and noticed your sailing canoe. This is very interesting in that I used to travel in Algonquin park a lot and often traveled with other family so we had two canoes. On large lakes we had a method of jury rigging a catamaran. Run two spruce poles twelve feet long across the two canoes and lash them on both gunales on both boats. Any shorter and the water will pile up in between and swamp the canoes. That is four lashings per pole. Now in the centre of the front pole erect a 12 foot mast. This will take a 6 by twelve ground sheet vinal tarp. Guy the mast with four lines. Two to the front of the canoes and two to the back cross pole on each gunwale. Now take another pole and lash it loose to the bottom of the mast. Attach the upper corners of the tarp to the top of the mast and the other end of the pole. One bottom corner goes to the base of the mast and the outer lower corner is loose footed. It requires no cutting of the tarp. This is a rig that can be found in Phill Bolgers 100 Boat Rigs. It works marvelous and is not enough sail to make the jury dangerous yet gives good speed. No keels are needed and you use your paddals for rudders.

                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
                              > here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
                              > josh.
                              >
                              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi Chris,
                              > > >
                              > > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
                              > > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
                              > > >
                              > > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
                              > > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
                              > > >
                              > > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
                              > > >
                              > > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
                              > > >
                              > > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
                              > > >
                              > > > Jon
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
                              > >
                              >
                            • footstepfollower64
                              I appreciate this idea! I will follow up on this...
                              Message 14 of 18 , Nov 5, 2009
                                I appreciate this idea! I will follow up on this...

                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
                                > here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
                                > josh.
                                >
                                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Hi Chris,
                                > > >
                                > > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
                                > > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
                                > > >
                                > > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
                                > > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
                                > > >
                                > > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
                                > > >
                                > > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
                                > > >
                                > > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
                                > > >
                                > > > Jon
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
                                > >
                                >
                              • rowerwet
                                or keep one guy paddling and steering and the other rowing his brains out. let me know how you do if you try it in the race. josh
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 6, 2009
                                  or keep one guy paddling and steering and the other rowing his brains out. let me know how you do if you try it in the race.
                                  josh

                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I appreciate this idea! I will follow up on this...
                                  >
                                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
                                  > > here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
                                  > > josh.
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hi Chris,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
                                  > > > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
                                  > > > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Jon
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • franklin_newhart
                                  It is possible they might disqualify you for rowing instead of paddling. Some race officials get anal about rules and things like that.
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Nov 7, 2009
                                    It is possible they might disqualify you for rowing instead of paddling. Some race officials get anal about rules and things like that.

                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > or keep one guy paddling and steering and the other rowing his brains out. let me know how you do if you try it in the race.
                                    > josh
                                    >
                                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I appreciate this idea! I will follow up on this...
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
                                    > > > here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
                                    > > > josh.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Hi Chris,
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
                                    > > > > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
                                    > > > > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Jon
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • footstepfollower64
                                    Actually, the rules and judges are not that tight. It was originally a canoe race but they allowed the kayaks that eventually showed up...
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Nov 8, 2009
                                      Actually, the rules and judges are not that tight. It was originally a canoe race but they allowed the kayaks that eventually showed up...


                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "franklin_newhart" <franklin_newhart@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > It is possible they might disqualify you for rowing instead of paddling. Some race officials get anal about rules and things like that.
                                      >
                                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > or keep one guy paddling and steering and the other rowing his brains out. let me know how you do if you try it in the race.
                                      > > josh
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I appreciate this idea! I will follow up on this...
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "rowerwet" <rowerwet@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > get a canoe hull and mount outrigger oarlocks on it, paddle when it is to tight to row and row the rest of the time, a canoe hull is very slippery and is an excellent shape for rowing fast. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-row-a-canoe-FAST/
                                      > > > > here is my boat, I love to row but don't have a row boat at this time, I converted my 17'colman canoe for rowing, with a little work you could make another rowing station for the second rower.
                                      > > > > josh.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "footstepfollower64" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Hi Chris,
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > Isn't it important to know the nature of the course? If, for instance,
                                      > > > > > > > a portage is expected, weight and bulk will be issues.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Agreed, but the original question asked was
                                      > > > > > > "Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?"
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > A portage wasn't mentioned, but I agree that it would sure change the game. Almost any rowboat I can think of would be a big handicap to portage compared to a kayak or canoe. If, for instance, the boat was a racer with outriggers and long oars, the hull would be lean enough to carry like a canoe, but the other gear would really slow you down. A lot depends on how serious one is about competing versus having fun racing in a less competitive, but more generally useful boat.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > It might be feasible to portage #526 and similar boats using a dolly with wheelbarrow tires (in tandem?), if the trail were wide enough and consideration were given to handles for the crew to optimize running with the boat - maybe something like racing bobsleds use. Of course, now you have to row the extra weight of the dolly around, stow it in the boat, and so on. If it were me, I'd go for a two-hole sea kayak if a portage was part of the course.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > It's fun to think about designing a race involving simple rowboats and portaging. How about a race for fixed-seat rowboats without outriggers across several lakes in succession, with portages in between? Perhaps the racers' times would be reduced for catching fish along the way, via a non-rowing crewmember whose only job is to fish.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Jon
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > There are no portages involved. The course is in semi-protected coastal waters in Bonita Springs Florida. The course is near 7 miles long, and includes enough passage through mangrove tunnels that a rowboat may be difficult to manage. There is a lot of open water to be traversed as well. I just don't know a lot about hull speed and how canoes/kayaks/rowboats stack up with two man crews all else being equal...
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • franklin_newhart
                                      Yeah. If you can have a whole crew then maybe you can tackle it with a dragon boat or even a voyager canoe. Get a dozen French Canadians in the Dragon boat
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Nov 9, 2009
                                        Yeah. If you can have a whole crew then maybe you can tackle it with a dragon boat or even a voyager canoe. Get a dozen French Canadians in the Dragon boat and David Suzuki and friends in the voyager canoe or vice versa. Oh yeah and add a Haida War Canoe too. Make for a great ol time. Add a family of Tahitians in an outrigger canoe and who knows what else we can round up. Make a wonderful reggata. Sombody put a torch in the front of one and paddel into Vancouver and we might even call the Reggata some nice name lik the Olimpics or something like that. Oh they did that already didn't they.

                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > How many crew are you allowed, the Naval Jelly is a great solution if
                                        > you have a gang. Seth Macinko has built a couple and can give further
                                        > comments.
                                        >
                                        > HJ
                                        >
                                        > footstepfollower64 wrote:
                                        > > My brother entered a canoe race last weekend, and we are planning to run it together next year. There are no hard and fast rules involved (pretty informal) so I was wondering what type of boat I could build for us to use. I assume kayaks are quicker than canoes, but are rowboats or sculling type boats faster yet? Is there an appropriate Bolger design suited to a two man rowing race?
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.