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Re: Eight inch wheels

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  • Ron Magen
    ... Just as I hesitate to modify Phil Bolger s plans, presuming that Phil had things pretty well figured out, I d be circumspect about telling everybody that
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 28, 2009
      > Posted by: "mason smith" goodboat@... adirondackgoodboat
      > Date: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:08 pm ((PDT))
      > snip<
      Just as I hesitate to modify Phil Bolger's plans, presuming that Phil had
      things pretty well figured out, I'd be circumspect about telling everybody
      that the designers of these trailers don't know what they're doing.
      >

      Mason,
      I AM an 'engineer' . . . There is 'Theory', then there is 'Practical
      Application'.

      What we are are talking about here, really, is no great loads. In addition
      there are literally THOUSANDS of trailers -'Load Specific' and 'Utility'-
      both commercially-built and 'assemble-it-yourself' types- that use 8in
      tires. I have two of them myself. {of FOUR trailers}. One is the ubiquitous
      4x8 bed 'folding' Utility type, the other is a well known Boat trailer. The
      utility has a DOT certified capacity of 900+ pounds, and the other 1200
      pounds. BOTH are 'GOVERNMENT CERTIFIED' and State licensed.

      I mention this not so much as a 'brag' but from a practical standpoint. The
      typical 'Utility' trailer is not exactly to the quality of the 'Shuttle
      Transporter'. 'Harbor Freight'-'Made in China'- $100 to $300 price point'
      quality. If you've ever seen someone load a car rack on a 'Mini' or other
      tiny car with 10 sheets of plywood - you can just imagine how typically
      over-loaded these things are. Next you have the commercial Boat trailer.
      Often times sold with a boat as a 'package', typically available as a
      replacement trailer for an existing boat, dunked in water then driven off,
      and usually 'beaten to death' . . that's why they are a 'REPLACEMENT'.

      Exactly how many of these have you seen torn-up on the side of the road?
      Ever go looking for one in a junk yard -for parts or a project? When have
      you read about a manufacturer having a 'Liability Suit'? IF the 8in tire
      were such a 'bad choice' junked trailers would be all over the place. That
      is if they even existed - no manufacturer can live being continuously sued
      for 'bad tire' liability. Nor would the Government stand by with the usual
      public outcry.

      So . . . all in all, a} use what YOU feel comfortable with, and b}match the
      equipment to the job.

      Regards & Good Luck,
      Ron Magen
      Backyard Boatshop


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    • adventures_in_astrophotography
      Thanks to all for the sprited and informative discussion on trailer wheel size. I agree that properly maintained bearings and correct tire selection and
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 29, 2009
        Thanks to all for the sprited and informative discussion on trailer wheel size. I agree that properly maintained bearings and correct tire selection and pressure are keys to long distance, high speed trailering.

        My biggest problem has been finding something sprung correctly for light boats, especially if they're long. I made a big, expensive mistake a few years ago allowing a trailer manufacturer to recommend a model for my Diablo. It's sprung for 1200 lbs, which I'm sure you can understand is like carrying a superball on a trampoline. Keeping the boat steady on the trailer (big emphasis on "on") seems very hard on the boat, but so far no problems have come up besides anxiety. Still, I run low tire pressure, travel slow on my gravel road, and have no confidence in going any farther than the lake near my shop. I rarely use the boat because of this, which has actually made me an avid rower.

        In years past I had built two trailers explicitly for the Common Sense Skiff and Light Schooner, both of which work acceptably, so what was I thinking with the Diablo?! A relatively cheap 600 lb capacity "economy" fishing boat trailer has custom bunks I made for the 20' scaled Windsprint and will also carry a hefty river skiff I designed and built (coming soon to my web site). This trailer would carry Diablo nicely, but I'd have to shorten the tongue, change out the bunks, and swap heavy boats every time out.

        Light boats too long for the pickup bed have always been a problem. For the Long Light Dory and stretched Gypsy, I came up with long athwartships 2x6 bunks blocked up on short pieces of 4x4 bolted to a 7000 lb capacity utility trailer deck. This allows some spring in the bunks and the boats will travel well that way, but they still need to be transferred to a dolly for launching. It's not a good solution for long trips that are common out here, and now the trailer has been reconfigured for firewood, a season-ender. I can still get the long Gypsy to the nearest lake on the Windsprint trailer - it's only a semi-trampoline ride.

        I yearn for the trailer for these long and light boats that I can pull behind my 4-banger Escape instead of using my F-350 to pull a 150 lb boat on a 1000 lb trailer!

        The Trailex therefore caught my eye, but the cost and small wheels have always given me pause, and not because of rotation speed issues. I've got to worry about washboards, ruts, rocks, and occasional mud and even snow between my shop and the paved roads, washboards and rocks being the biggest issues. If it had 12" wheels, I'd probably have already bought one, but on the other hand I've only got 2.5 miles between my shop and pavement, so maybe the 8-inchers will work. I've got all winter to think about it, since I won't be going farther than the lakes by the shop before ice-on. Thanks again,

        Jon Kolb
        www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
      • Christopher C. Wetherill
        Jon, This may be superfluous, but do you cross the grates for keeping cattle off the highway in range country? Chris
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 29, 2009
          Jon,

          This may be superfluous, but do you cross the grates for keeping cattle off the highway in range country?

          Chris


          The Trailex therefore caught my eye, but the cost and small wheels have always given me pause, and not because of rotation speed issues.  I've got to worry about washboards, ruts, rocks, and occasional mud and even snow between my shop and the paved roads, washboards and rocks being the biggest issues.  If it had 12" wheels, I'd probably have already bought one, but on the other hand I've only got 2.5 miles between my shop and pavement, so maybe the 8-inchers will work.  I've got all winter to think about it, since I won't be going farther than the lakes by the shop before ice-on.  Thanks again,
          
          Jon Kolb
          www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
          
          
          
            
        • second_floor_loft
          Jon: I m sorry, I ve come in late on this thread and apologize if this has been brought up earlier..Have you called the folks at Trailex and asked about having
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 29, 2009
            Jon:
            I'm sorry, I've come in late on this thread and apologize if this has been brought up earlier..Have you called the folks at Trailex and asked about having one build with 12 inch wheels and fenders? 12 inch wheels and fenders are readily available in this area at a number of retailers, notably Northern Tool which sells on line, so perhaps you could change them out yourself if not available directly from Trailex.
            That said, I have a small utility trailer I use to haul a mower a few miles each week and bought it with 12 inch wheels. A railroad track crossing will put the trailer and mower into orbit if I'm not very careful. The mower is considerably heavier than your boat so I'm not sure the larger wheel/tire combination would be much of an improvement. It would however be a fairly inexpensive modification to try.

            Sincerely:
            Paul T

            --- On Tue, 9/29/09, adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...> wrote:

            > From: adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...>
            > Subject: [bolger] Light Boat Trailer Woes (was: Eight inch wheels)
            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 3:54 PM
            > Thanks to all for the sprited and
            > informative discussion on trailer wheel size. I agree
            > that properly maintained bearings and correct tire selection
            > and pressure are keys to long distance, high speed
            > trailering.
            >
            > My biggest problem has been finding something sprung
            > correctly for light boats, especially if they're long.
            > I made a big, expensive mistake a few years ago allowing a
            > trailer manufacturer to recommend a model for my
            > Diablo. It's sprung for 1200 lbs, which I'm sure you
            > can understand is like carrying a superball on a
            > trampoline. Keeping the boat steady on the trailer
            > (big emphasis on "on") seems very hard on the boat, but so
            > far no problems have come up besides anxiety. Still, I
            > run low tire pressure, travel slow on my gravel road, and
            > have no confidence in going any farther than the lake near
            > my shop. I rarely use the boat because of this, which
            > has actually made me an avid rower.
            >
            > In years past I had built two trailers explicitly for the
            > Common Sense Skiff and Light Schooner, both of which work
            > acceptably, so what was I thinking with the Diablo?! A
            > relatively cheap 600 lb capacity "economy" fishing boat
            > trailer has custom bunks I made for the 20' scaled
            > Windsprint and will also carry a hefty river skiff I
            > designed and built (coming soon to my web site). This
            > trailer would carry Diablo nicely, but I'd have to shorten
            > the tongue, change out the bunks, and swap heavy boats every
            > time out.
            >
            > Light boats too long for the pickup bed have always been a
            > problem. For the Long Light Dory and stretched Gypsy,
            > I came up with long athwartships 2x6 bunks blocked up on
            > short pieces of 4x4 bolted to a 7000 lb capacity utility
            > trailer deck. This allows some spring in the bunks and
            > the boats will travel well that way, but they still need to
            > be transferred to a dolly for launching. It's not a
            > good solution for long trips that are common out here, and
            > now the trailer has been reconfigured for firewood, a
            > season-ender. I can still get the long Gypsy to the
            > nearest lake on the Windsprint trailer - it's only a
            > semi-trampoline ride.
            >
            > I yearn for the trailer for these long and light boats that
            > I can pull behind my 4-banger Escape instead of using my
            > F-350 to pull a 150 lb boat on a 1000 lb trailer!
            >
            > The Trailex therefore caught my eye, but the cost and small
            > wheels have always given me pause, and not because of
            > rotation speed issues. I've got to worry about
            > washboards, ruts, rocks, and occasional mud and even snow
            > between my shop and the paved roads, washboards and rocks
            > being the biggest issues. If it had 12" wheels, I'd
            > probably have already bought one, but on the other hand I've
            > only got 2.5 miles between my shop and pavement, so maybe
            > the 8-inchers will work. I've got all winter to think
            > about it, since I won't be going farther than the lakes by
            > the shop before ice-on. Thanks again,
            >
            > Jon Kolb
            > www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Bolger rules!!!
            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
            > flogging dead horses
            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
            > Fred' posts
            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and
            > snip away
            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
            > MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            > mailto:bolger-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
          • prairiedog2332
            I have towed boats probably about 15 thousand miles total including empty trailers to pick up boats. Everything from 8 wheels and up 15 - oversprung,
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 29, 2009
              I have towed boats probably about 15 thousand miles total including
              empty trailers to pick up boats. Everything from 8" wheels and up 15" -
              oversprung, undersprung, canoe haulers you name it. Towing through a
              blizzard going through Chicago and through a left over hurricane in
              Ontario with winds pretty crazy.

              14" wheels with torsion bar suspension - far and away my favorite. If
              the suspension is too heavy for the boat weight I add cut up tires under
              the hull to cushion the boat.

              One other thing I like a lot is a fairly long tongue - which for me
              smooths out the ride and makes it easier to back up with when ending up
              in a dead-end road/street.

              You get exactly what you pay for and a good trailer is very relaxing on
              a long trip

              Just my personal experience.

              Nels

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, second_floor_loft <second_floor_loft@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Jon:
              > I'm sorry, I've come in late on this thread and apologize if this has
              been brought up earlier..Have you called the folks at Trailex and asked
              about having one build with 12 inch wheels and fenders? 12 inch wheels
              and fenders are readily available in this area at a number of retailers,
              notably Northern Tool which sells on line, so perhaps you could change
              them out yourself if not available directly from Trailex.
              > That said, I have a small utility trailer I use to haul a mower a few
              miles each week and bought it with 12 inch wheels. A railroad track
              crossing will put the trailer and mower into orbit if I'm not very
              careful. The mower is considerably heavier than your boat so I'm not
              sure the larger wheel/tire combination would be much of an improvement.
              It would however be a fairly inexpensive modification to try.
              >
              > Sincerely:
              > Paul T
            • Jon n Wanda
              I will second the longer tongue being easyer to back. Another thing I like for some ramps is a hich on the front bumper. It is also a lot easyer to get a 7
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 29, 2009
                I will second the longer tongue being easyer to back. Another thing I like for some ramps is a hich on the front bumper. It is also a lot easyer to get a 7' wide boat into a portable garage with too.

                Jon

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have towed boats probably about 15 thousand miles total including
                > empty trailers to pick up boats. Everything from 8" wheels and up 15" -
                > oversprung, undersprung, canoe haulers you name it. Towing through a
                > blizzard going through Chicago and through a left over hurricane in
                > Ontario with winds pretty crazy.
                >
                > 14" wheels with torsion bar suspension - far and away my favorite. If
                > the suspension is too heavy for the boat weight I add cut up tires under
                > the hull to cushion the boat.
                >
                > One other thing I like a lot is a fairly long tongue - which for me
                > smooths out the ride and makes it easier to back up with when ending up
                > in a dead-end road/street.
                >
                > You get exactly what you pay for and a good trailer is very relaxing on
                > a long trip
                >
                > Just my personal experience.
                >
                > Nels
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, second_floor_loft <second_floor_loft@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Jon:
                > > I'm sorry, I've come in late on this thread and apologize if this has
                > been brought up earlier..Have you called the folks at Trailex and asked
                > about having one build with 12 inch wheels and fenders? 12 inch wheels
                > and fenders are readily available in this area at a number of retailers,
                > notably Northern Tool which sells on line, so perhaps you could change
                > them out yourself if not available directly from Trailex.
                > > That said, I have a small utility trailer I use to haul a mower a few
                > miles each week and bought it with 12 inch wheels. A railroad track
                > crossing will put the trailer and mower into orbit if I'm not very
                > careful. The mower is considerably heavier than your boat so I'm not
                > sure the larger wheel/tire combination would be much of an improvement.
                > It would however be a fairly inexpensive modification to try.
                > >
                > > Sincerely:
                > > Paul T
                >
              • adventures_in_astrophotography
                Hi Chris, ... Yes, there are three or four cattle guards on the way to the closest lake, and one between my shop and the highway for longer trips. Jon
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 30, 2009
                  Hi Chris,

                  > This may be superfluous, but do you cross the grates for keeping cattle
                  > off the highway in range country?

                  Yes, there are three or four cattle guards on the way to the closest lake, and one between my shop and the highway for longer trips.

                  Jon
                • Christopher C. Wetherill
                  Jon, They have a fairly wide spacing don t they? It s been a few years since I drove over one, but I bet the gap between bars is at least 4 inches. I would
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 30, 2009
                    Jon,

                    They have a fairly wide spacing don't they?  It's been a few years since I drove over one, but I bet the gap between bars is at least 4 inches.  I would think that would give a good shaking to 6-inch wheel sets.


                    Chris

                    adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
                    Hi Chris,
                    
                      
                    This may be superfluous, but do you cross the grates for keeping cattle 
                    off the highway in range country?
                        
                    Yes, there are three or four cattle guards on the way to the closest lake, and one between my shop and the highway for longer trips.
                    
                    Jon
                    
                    
                    
                    -
                      
                  • otter55806
                    As most have said, forget the 8 tires, too small. Tires don t really have anything to do with being over sprung anyway. I ve delt with this is the past by
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 30, 2009
                      As most have said, forget the 8" tires, too small. Tires don't really have anything to do with being over sprung anyway. I've delt with this is the past by simply taking out as many leafs on the spring set as needed, making sure that when the remaining leaf/s, with the boat, fully loaded for travel, were still had some spring in them and were not flat. Also, for very light boats, light coil springs can be used instead of leaf springs. This is done on trailers meant for canoes, for example.
                      Bob



                      -- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks to all for the sprited and informative discussion on trailer wheel size. I agree that properly maintained bearings and correct tire selection and pressure are keys to long distance, high speed trailering.
                      >
                      > My biggest problem has been finding something sprung correctly for light boats, especially if they're long. I made a big, expensive mistake a few years ago allowing a trailer manufacturer to recommend a model for my Diablo. It's sprung for 1200 lbs, which I'm sure you can understand is like carrying a superball on a trampoline. Keeping the boat steady on the trailer (big emphasis on "on") seems very hard on the boat, but so far no problems have come up besides anxiety. Still, I run low tire pressure, travel slow on my gravel road, and have no confidence in going any farther than the lake near my shop. I rarely use the boat because of this, which has actually made me an avid rower.
                      >
                      > In years past I had built two trailers explicitly for the Common Sense Skiff and Light Schooner, both of which work acceptably, so what was I thinking with the Diablo?! A relatively cheap 600 lb capacity "economy" fishing boat trailer has custom bunks I made for the 20' scaled Windsprint and will also carry a hefty river skiff I designed and built (coming soon to my web site). This trailer would carry Diablo nicely, but I'd have to shorten the tongue, change out the bunks, and swap heavy boats every time out.
                      >
                      > Light boats too long for the pickup bed have always been a problem. For the Long Light Dory and stretched Gypsy, I came up with long athwartships 2x6 bunks blocked up on short pieces of 4x4 bolted to a 7000 lb capacity utility trailer deck. This allows some spring in the bunks and the boats will travel well that way, but they still need to be transferred to a dolly for launching. It's not a good solution for long trips that are common out here, and now the trailer has been reconfigured for firewood, a season-ender. I can still get the long Gypsy to the nearest lake on the Windsprint trailer - it's only a semi-trampoline ride.
                      >
                      > I yearn for the trailer for these long and light boats that I can pull behind my 4-banger Escape instead of using my F-350 to pull a 150 lb boat on a 1000 lb trailer!
                      >
                      > The Trailex therefore caught my eye, but the cost and small wheels have always given me pause, and not because of rotation speed issues. I've got to worry about washboards, ruts, rocks, and occasional mud and even snow between my shop and the paved roads, washboards and rocks being the biggest issues. If it had 12" wheels, I'd probably have already bought one, but on the other hand I've only got 2.5 miles between my shop and pavement, so maybe the 8-inchers will work. I've got all winter to think about it, since I won't be going farther than the lakes by the shop before ice-on. Thanks again,
                      >
                      > Jon Kolb
                      > www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
                      >
                    • prairiedog2332
                      We have them all over where I live. The pipe spacing is about 6 I would say. I used to slow right down when going over them. Now I find the faster the
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 1, 2009
                        We have them all over where I live. The pipe spacing is about 6" I would
                        say.

                        I used to slow right down when going over them. Now I find the faster
                        the smoother they are.

                        I had heard that in some places the ranchers just paint lines across the
                        road, if it is paved. Thought it might be an urban legend then saw them
                        like that down in Wyoming and a couple places in Alberta.

                        Nels


                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill"
                        <wetherillc@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Jon,
                        >
                        > They have a fairly wide spacing don't they? It's been a few years
                        since
                        > I drove over one, but I bet the gap between bars is at least 4 inches.
                        > I would think that would give a good shaking to 6-inch wheel sets.
                        >
                        > Chris
                        >
                        > adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
                        > > Hi Chris,
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >> This may be superfluous, but do you cross the grates for keeping
                        cattle
                        > >> off the highway in range country?
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > > Yes, there are three or four cattle guards on the way to the closest
                        lake, and one between my shop and the highway for longer trips.
                        > >
                        > > Jon
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -
                        > >
                        >
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