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Re: [bolger] long micro nearing completion Thailand new pics

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... You might want to consider building the Micro first as a scale model, it will help you better understand the shape.
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 1, 2009
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      On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Andre Basso<andre_basso@...> wrote:

      > I've just bought Micro plans and I'm still lost among drawings. I hope
      > to start building in the next couple of years.

      You might want to consider building the Micro first as a scale model,
      it will help you better understand the shape.
    • Andre Basso
      Tks Bruce. I ll do that. This is my first boatbuilding project (should ve started with an easier one ...I know....) and a scale model will help a lot !
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 1, 2009
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        Tks Bruce. I'll do that. This is my first boatbuilding project
        (should've started with an easier one ...I know....) and a scale model
        will help a lot !


        Em Ter, 2009-09-01 às 07:31 -0700, Bruce Hallman escreveu:
        >
        > On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Andre Basso<andre_basso@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        > > I've just bought Micro plans and I'm still lost among drawings. I
        > hope
        > > to start building in the next couple of years.
        >
        > You might want to consider building the Micro first as a scale model,
        > it will help you better understand the shape.
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • graeme19121984
        ... Toona australis - red cedar. The east coast of Oz was largely explored by european timber getters looking for this. Absolutely fantastic furniture timber.
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 6, 2009
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          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
          >
          > So whats Australian red cedar like, I have never heard of it. Mai
          > Nam Dang is another unknown.

          Toona australis - red cedar. The east coast of Oz was largely explored by european timber getters looking for this. Absolutely fantastic furniture timber. Usually found in wet forests on the upland eastern escarpment of the great dividing range, Victoria to Cape York, was in the lowland rainforest of the wet tropics too. Very hard to obtain now. Very prone to pests and disease outside of the forest ecosystem. Despite much research it has proved impossible to grow in plantation monoculture, like many tropical forest tree species. Some mixed species small plantation trials have returned somewhat mixed results.

          I've not heard of it used for spars, though they would look splendid if bright finished! I wonder if it's not actually something like western red cedar (douglas fir?) imported via Australia?

          Graeme
        • scsbmsjoe
          Graeme Douglas Fir, also called Oregon Pine, is quite different from Red Cedar. Douglas Fir is used for spars though Sitka Spruce is lighter weight and
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 6, 2009
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            Graeme

            Douglas Fir, also called Oregon Pine, is quite different from Red Cedar. Douglas Fir is used for spars though Sitka Spruce is lighter weight and prefered for spars on small boats in the US.

            Joe T

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@> wrote:
            > >
            > > So whats Australian red cedar like, I have never heard of it. Mai
            > > Nam Dang is another unknown.
            >
            > Toona australis - red cedar. The east coast of Oz was largely explored by european timber getters looking for this. Absolutely fantastic furniture timber. Usually found in wet forests on the upland eastern escarpment of the great dividing range, Victoria to Cape York, was in the lowland rainforest of the wet tropics too. Very hard to obtain now. Very prone to pests and disease outside of the forest ecosystem. Despite much research it has proved impossible to grow in plantation monoculture, like many tropical forest tree species. Some mixed species small plantation trials have returned somewhat mixed results.
            >
            > I've not heard of it used for spars, though they would look splendid if bright finished! I wonder if it's not actually something like western red cedar (douglas fir?) imported via Australia?
            >
            > Graeme
            >
          • Larry Geib
            Western Red is pretty soft, some say to soft even for planking unless used in conjunction with epoxies. Two fine cedars for boatbuilding are Port Orford cedar
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 7, 2009
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              Western Red is pretty soft, some say to soft even for planking unless
              used in conjunction with epoxies.

              Two fine cedars for boatbuilding are Port Orford cedar and Alaska
              Yellow cedar. They'd both make great spars.

              Port Orford is from Southern Oregon and N. California and is prized
              for planking and Spars. It was often used in Greene and Greene
              craftsman style houses for paneling, beams, and carved trim. Great
              wood blond in color and straight tight grain. - kind of expensive
              now. I have some salvage first growth beams waiting for an
              appropriate project.

              Alaska yellow cedar is the hardest of the cedars, grown up the West
              coast starting in Washington State (though it's mostly gone in
              Washington, now commercially.) Also a great wood, straight and tight
              grain with no checking or splitting. Often totem poles and native
              log canoes were made from it.


              Both would make great spars for a small boat.

              Larry

              On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:18 PM, scsbmsjoe wrote:

              > Graeme
              >
              > Douglas Fir, also called Oregon Pine, is quite different from Red
              > Cedar. Douglas Fir is used for spars though Sitka Spruce is lighter
              > weight and prefered for spars on small boats in the US.
              >
              > Joe T
              >
            • Pat
              In Thailand Australian Red Cedar Is called Mai Yom Horm. I understand from my father in law who has been making pianos in Thailand for 40years and is quite
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 7, 2009
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                In Thailand Australian Red Cedar Is called Mai Yom Horm. I understand from my father in law who has been making pianos in Thailand for 40years and is quite knowledgeable about tropical hardwoods and there uses, that they used this timber to make airplanes during the Second World War. It has a very unique aroma, it is very light strong and flexible. I believe most comes from Malaysia, Lao, Burma and Cambodia these days. It cost approx the same as grade b Teak in Thailand not very expensive as my 2 mast  one 30 feet long the other 15 feet cost 200us$ for the  wood.
                 
                Cheers
                PAT
                 
                Toona ciliata M. Roem.

                SYNONYM(S) :  Cedrela australis R.Mudie,  Cedrela toona Roxb. ex. Rottler,  Cedrela toona Roxb. ex Willd.,  Cedrela velutina DC., Toona australis F. Muell., Toona australis (F. Muell.) Harms, Toona ciliata M. Roem. var. australis (F. Muell.) K.N. Bahadur, Toona microcarpa (C. DC.) Harms

                BENGALI :      Tuun (Tun), Tuni.

                BURMESE :  Mai yom horm, Taung tama, Taw thamgo, Thit kador .

                CHINESE :  红椿  Hong chun,  小果红椿    Xiao guo hong chun (as T. microcarpa).

                ENGLISH :   Australian cedar, Australian red cedar, Australian cedar, Burma cedar, Burma toon, Harms red cedar, Indian mahogany, Moulmein cedar (Myanmar), Queensland red cedar (Aust.), Red cedar, Toon.

                FRENCH :   C�e rouge, C�e rouge d'Australie.

                GERMAN :  Australisches mahagoni, Australisches Zeder.

              • Paul & Susanne
                As a resident of British Columbia, I humbly beg to differ; red cedar was the primary wood for native dug out canoes in the northwest. The larger, ocean going
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 7, 2009
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                  As a resident of British Columbia, I humbly beg to differ; red cedar was the primary wood for native dug out canoes in the northwest.  The larger, ocean going ones were built up to 50-60 feet in length.  Although old, first-growth cedars grew to great dimensions, a canoe could be considerably wider in beam than the diameter of the log it was carved from.  After hollowing out, the shell would be filled with water.  Than rocks heated in a fire would be put into the water to soften the hull.  Gradually longer thwarts would be worked in spreading the gunwales and creating flare in the topsides.  You are correct that western read cedar can be quite soft on the surface.  The native people dealt with that by 'fire hardening' and by treatment with shark oil.  I remember reading that the ultimate shape of the large sea going canoes was very like that arrrived at by 19th century ship builders for the great clipper ships.
                   
                  Paul Glassen
                  Nanaimo
                  Vancouver Island
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1:36 AM
                  Subject: [SPAM]Re: [bolger] Re: long micro nearing completion Thailand new pics

                   

                  Western Red is pretty soft, some say to soft even for planking unless
                  used in conjunction with epoxies.

                  Two fine cedars for boatbuilding are Port Orford cedar and Alaska
                  Yellow cedar. They'd both make great spars.

                  Port Orford is from Southern Oregon and N. California and is prized
                  for planking and Spars. It was often used in Greene and Greene
                  craftsman style houses for paneling, beams, and carved trim. Great
                  wood blond in color and straight tight grain. - kind of expensive
                  now. I have some salvage first growth beams waiting for an
                  appropriate project.

                  Alaska yellow cedar is the hardest of the cedars, grown up the West
                  coast starting in Washington State (though it's mostly gone in
                  Washington, now commercially. ) Also a great wood, straight and tight
                  grain with no checking or splitting. Often totem poles and native
                  log canoes were made from it.

                  Both would make great spars for a small boat.

                  Larry

                  On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:18 PM, scsbmsjoe wrote:

                  > Graeme
                  >
                  > Douglas Fir, also called Oregon Pine, is quite different from Red
                  > Cedar. Douglas Fir is used for spars though Sitka Spruce is lighter
                  > weight and prefered for spars on small boats in the US.
                  >
                  > Joe T
                  >

                • scsbmsjoe
                  All good info here. I was hoping to bring out some experts fron the NW US. Thanks. Joe T
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 7, 2009
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                    All good info here. I was hoping to bring out some experts fron the NW US. Thanks.

                    Joe T

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul & Susanne" <glassens@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > As a resident of British Columbia, I humbly beg to differ; red cedar was the primary wood for native dug out canoes in the northwest. The larger, ocean going ones were built up to 50-60 feet in length. Although old, first-growth cedars grew to great dimensions, a canoe could be considerably wider in beam than the diameter of the log it was carved from. After hollowing out, the shell would be filled with water. Than rocks heated in a fire would be put into the water to soften the hull. Gradually longer thwarts would be worked in spreading the gunwales and creating flare in the topsides. You are correct that western read cedar can be quite soft on the surface. The native people dealt with that by 'fire hardening' and by treatment with shark oil. I remember reading that the ultimate shape of the large sea going canoes was very like that arrrived at by 19th century ship builders for the great clipper ships.
                    >
                    > Paul Glassen
                    > Nanaimo
                    > Vancouver Island
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Larry Geib
                    > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1:36 AM
                    > Subject: [SPAM]Re: [bolger] Re: long micro nearing completion Thailand new pics
                    >
                    >
                    > Western Red is pretty soft, some say to soft even for planking unless
                    > used in conjunction with epoxies.
                    >
                    > Two fine cedars for boatbuilding are Port Orford cedar and Alaska
                    > Yellow cedar. They'd both make great spars.
                    >
                    > Port Orford is from Southern Oregon and N. California and is prized
                    > for planking and Spars. It was often used in Greene and Greene
                    > craftsman style houses for paneling, beams, and carved trim. Great
                    > wood blond in color and straight tight grain. - kind of expensive
                    > now. I have some salvage first growth beams waiting for an
                    > appropriate project.
                    >
                    > Alaska yellow cedar is the hardest of the cedars, grown up the West
                    > coast starting in Washington State (though it's mostly gone in
                    > Washington, now commercially.) Also a great wood, straight and tight
                    > grain with no checking or splitting. Often totem poles and native
                    > log canoes were made from it.
                    >
                    > Both would make great spars for a small boat.
                    >
                    > Larry
                    >
                    > On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:18 PM, scsbmsjoe wrote:
                    >
                    > > Graeme
                    > >
                    > > Douglas Fir, also called Oregon Pine, is quite different from Red
                    > > Cedar. Douglas Fir is used for spars though Sitka Spruce is lighter
                    > > weight and prefered for spars on small boats in the US.
                    > >
                    > > Joe T
                    > >
                    >
                  • graeme19121984
                    ... So then Pat, did you clear finish the spars for your beautiful Micro? Probably a very nice colour contrast, hey? Graeme
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 9, 2009
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Pat <patjah@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > In Thailand Australian Red Cedar Is called Mai Yom Horm.

                      So then Pat, did you clear finish the spars for your beautiful Micro? Probably a very nice colour contrast, hey?

                      Graeme
                    • Pat
                      So then Pat, did you clear finish the spars for your beautiful Micro? Probably a very nice colour contrast, hey? I tried to keep the bright work to a minimum.
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 10, 2009
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                        So then Pat, did you clear finish the spars for your beautiful Micro? Probably a very nice colour contrast, hey?
                         
                        I tried to keep the bright work to a minimum. Just cockpit combing hatches. tiller ect.. I was tempted to but rather be sailing than sanding.I did use it a bit on the intrerior. Realy nice wood to work with and it smells like sandalwood.
                        I have enjoyed building this boat so much the sailing will be icing on the cake.
                         
                        Cheers
                        PAT
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