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Re: [bolger] Re: Illinois

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  • Harry James
    So Bruce, how many man hours did you have figured on a Illinois? Seems to me i remember you putting that down somewhere. HJ
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 2 10:30 PM
      So Bruce, how many man hours did you have figured on a Illinois? Seems
      to me i remember you putting that down somewhere.

      HJ

      daschultz2000 wrote:
      > It's not here on Yahoo, but Bruce Hallman has kept it on his site.
      >
      > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/
      >
      > Don
      >
      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Several years ago I put the Illinois article on one of the Bolger yahoo
      >> files sites, I can't find it now, anybody got an idea where it might be?
      >>
      >> HJ
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
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    • daschultz2000
      I remember there being an educated SWAG man hours # floating around a discussion here. I was pretty interested in selling my house and building one about 4
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 3 1:14 PM
        I remember there being an educated SWAG man hours # floating around a discussion here. I was pretty interested in selling my house and building one about 4 years ago, right after my wife died. Actually scouted a couple of sites where I could build it, and get equipment in to get it launched. It still looks to me, along with its MAIB kin Puffer, (not Bell's Puffer) to be as comfortable a living situation as one can have for a live aboard. I give the edge to Illinois for its apparent opportunity to be a "real cruiser" by installing a big diesel in place of the 50 hp outboard along with the fuel tankage needed. Or maybe just a pair of the outboards, about 90 hp each.. She'd "have legs", as Bolger put it in the essay, and could go anywhere on the rivers here in the USA with her 18" draft. Must avoid the temptation to get her out in big water, even the Great Lakes, because sooner or later, one would get caught in some big rollers.
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... No, not an educated SWAG. I made an optimistic, very rough work boat finish estimate for the bare hull in 2007 ten hours per sheet of plywood is my
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 3 1:29 PM
          > I remember there being an educated SWAG man hours # floating around a
          > discussion here.

          No, not an ''educated'' SWAG.

          I made an optimistic, very rough 'work boat' finish estimate for the
          bare hull in 2007

          ten hours per sheet of plywood is my production estimate, and I think
          that I have achieved that rate on the fastest of my boat building
          experience. Use of an air powered stapler, and skilled quickness with
          the epoxy application assumed. A hired helping hand 'day laborer'
          would also be smart, I think, if for nothing else than to keep you
          focused and moving forward.

          As to the interior fit out and finish work, those hours aren't
          estimated, and that could take an eternity. (or not, depending on
          you.)

          =====cut an pasted below====
          I am trying to read PCB's mind as to the scantlings of Illinois.

          The sides, I presume are two layers of vertically oriented 1/2"
          plywood. The bottom, my guess is triple, staggered 3/4" plywood with
          a 3" shoe, a double layer of '2by' lumber. Top deck, is 1/2" ply.

          sides: 60 sheets
          bottom: 42 sheets
          top: 16 sheets
          fitout: 36 sheets
          =============
          150 x $30 = $4,500
          Lumber = 4,000 bf @ $0.75 = $3,000
          Epoxy 110 gallons @ $45 = $5,000
          Cloth 300 yards @ $5 = $1,500
          Motors $7,500
          Misc. $20,000
          Total...about $45K materials

          labor about 10hrs per sheet of plywood, 1,500 hrs???





          On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:14 PM,
          daschultz2000<daschultz8275@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > I remember there being an educated SWAG man hours # floating around a
          > discussion here. I was pretty interested in selling my house and building
          > one about 4 years ago, right after my wife died. Actually scouted a couple
          > of sites where I could build it, and get equipment in to get it launched. It
          > still looks to me, along with its MAIB kin Puffer, (not Bell's Puffer) to be
          > as comfortable a living situation as one can have for a live aboard. I give
          > the edge to Illinois for its apparent opportunity to be a "real cruiser" by
          > installing a big diesel in place of the 50 hp outboard along with the fuel
          > tankage needed. Or maybe just a pair of the outboards, about 90 hp each..
          > She'd "have legs", as Bolger put it in the essay, and could go anywhere on
          > the rivers here in the USA with her 18" draft. Must avoid the temptation to
          > get her out in big water, even the Great Lakes, because sooner or later, one
          > would get caught in some big roller! s.
          >
          >
        • daschultz2000
          http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80153 Here is a link to a bunch of photos of Peter Lenihan s Windermere project. This boat is similar to
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 4 9:08 AM
            http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80153

            Here is a link to a bunch of photos of Peter Lenihan's Windermere project. This boat is similar to Illinois in construction but 1/2 the length and proportionately narrower. I believe its genesis may have been about the same time as Illinois. On a smaller scale, you can get an idea of what building Illinois might be like.

            IMO, one might consider paying a tank contractor to render the hull shape in steel, and then fit out the interior and deck in wood. This would be similar to the construction of Bolger's "Lion's Paw", or possibly the 100' sharpie (forgot the name) that is the last chapter of "Boats with an Open Mind".

            Other live aboard options have already been named, however one that was missed is Wyoming, a VERY simple (for a 50' cruiser) OB powered cruiser. One advantage of this boat is that it is low enough and narrow enough to be very comfortable on a variety of the rivers with much bridge clearance. Also it can be towed on a hired flat bed, from an inland build site to launching point with length the only problem, no width and height issues. This would be tough to do with Illinois. I think one would have to build on the water's edge.

            A fellow (in Nebraska?) had a Wyoming with the rear cuddy about 2/3rds done, having built the front and rear sections of about 17' each. He planned to stage the 2 sections in a large building area, and then build the center section in place between them. My guess is he wasn't convinced he could build the center section, and then bond the 3 together and have a really straight & strong boat. To bad, woulda been cool to 90% build a 50' boat in a standard garage. One could have pre-fitted the plywood to join the 3 sections. Then ya rent space at the marina, make 4 trips to haul the 3 sections, materials and tools to the marina, and block up the 3 prefabbed sections on house moving screw jacks. Then glue and screw in the precut and epoxied sealed overlapping plywood panels and sisters on the intercoastals, add the rails/chines/gunwales, floor boards, finish the paint, and launch. Whee!

            The fellow had some career or family change of fortune that stalled the project, and I've lost track of it. To bad, but I don't think he ever sold it, so it may pop up yet. He had built a nice Tennessee that he found to small. He sold it to a guy in Oklahoma.

            Don
          • Bill Howard
            Sir Joseph Banks looks like the ultimate Bolger Box. Although he may be working on a larger one, since he no longer is limited to the physical world, I do
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 4 10:18 AM
              "Sir Joseph Banks" looks like the ultimate Bolger Box.

              Although he may be working on a larger one, since he no longer is limited to the physical world, I do not expect to see it in this life.

              BillH39
              Nellysford
              On Aug 4, 2009, at 12:08 PM, daschultz2000 wrote:

              the 100' sharpie (forgot the name) that is the last chapter of "Boats with an Open Mind". 

            • Harry James
              If I remember correctly the individual building the Wyoming had an inboard on a Sneakeasy with direct drive and a nozzle for reverse and forward?? Bruce you
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 4 11:36 AM
                If I remember correctly the individual building the Wyoming had an
                inboard on a Sneakeasy with direct drive and a nozzle for reverse and
                forward?? Bruce you were able to find the archives for this once I
                think. How dod you do that by the way?

                HJ

                daschultz2000 wrote:
                > http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80153
                >
                > Here is a link to a bunch of photos of Peter Lenihan's Windermere project. This boat is similar to Illinois in construction but 1/2 the length and proportionately narrower. I believe its genesis may have been about the same time as Illinois. On a smaller scale, you can get an idea of what building Illinois might be like.
                >
                > IMO, one might consider paying a tank contractor to render the hull shape in steel, and then fit out the interior and deck in wood. This would be similar to the construction of Bolger's "Lion's Paw", or possibly the 100' sharpie (forgot the name) that is the last chapter of "Boats with an Open Mind".
                >
                > Other live aboard options have already been named, however one that was missed is Wyoming, a VERY simple (for a 50' cruiser) OB powered cruiser. One advantage of this boat is that it is low enough and narrow enough to be very comfortable on a variety of the rivers with much bridge clearance. Also it can be towed on a hired flat bed, from an inland build site to launching point with length the only problem, no width and height issues. This would be tough to do with Illinois. I think one would have to build on the water's edge.
                >
                > A fellow (in Nebraska?) had a Wyoming with the rear cuddy about 2/3rds done, having built the front and rear sections of about 17' each. He planned to stage the 2 sections in a large building area, and then build the center section in place between them. My guess is he wasn't convinced he could build the center section, and then bond the 3 together and have a really straight & strong boat. To bad, woulda been cool to 90% build a 50' boat in a standard garage. One could have pre-fitted the plywood to join the 3 sections. Then ya rent space at the marina, make 4 trips to haul the 3 sections, materials and tools to the marina, and block up the 3 prefabbed sections on house moving screw jacks. Then glue and screw in the precut and epoxied sealed overlapping plywood panels and sisters on the intercoastals, add the rails/chines/gunwales, floor boards, finish the paint, and launch. Whee!
                >
                > The fellow had some career or family change of fortune that stalled the project, and I've lost track of it. To bad, but I don't think he ever sold it, so it may pop up yet. He had built a nice Tennessee that he found to small. He sold it to a guy in Oklahoma.
                >
                > Don
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • chodges31711
                He used a Kitchen rudder. Invented by a British Capt. Kitchen over 100 years ago. British navy used it on small craft before WWII I think. I have seen plans
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 4 1:35 PM
                  He used a Kitchen rudder. Invented by a British Capt. Kitchen over 100 years ago. British navy used it on small craft before WWII I think. I have seen plans on the web. Had a tiller handle with a crank on the front end. The tiller steered and the crank opened or closed the clam shells around the prop for forward- neutral-reverse. Required practice to be graceful.

                  Charles



                  Charles

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > If I remember correctly the individual building the Wyoming had an
                  > inboard on a Sneakeasy with direct drive and a nozzle for reverse and
                  > forward?? Bruce you were able to find the archives for this once I
                  > think. How dod you do that by the way?
                  >
                  > HJ
                • daschultz2000
                  Yep yep. He intended the engine to end up in the Wyoming on a generator. He built the Kitchen rudder clam shell from scratch, laying up carbon fiber on a
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 4 7:45 PM
                    Yep yep. He intended the engine to end up in the Wyoming on a generator.

                    He built the Kitchen rudder clam shell from scratch, laying up carbon fiber on a bucket. Think he ran it one season just for fun, pulled the motor, and sold the Sneakeasy.

                    Don



                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "chodges31711" <charleswhodges@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > He used a Kitchen rudder. Invented by a British Capt. Kitchen over 100 years ago......
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