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Re: junk rig à la Bolger

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  • Philippe
    Thanks Robin, I have read the link below; Jim is quite an interesting guy indeed. His project to convert the Bolger chinese rig to a conventional junk rig
    Message 1 of 10 , May 2 6:56 AM
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      Thanks Robin,
      I have read the link below; Jim is quite an interesting guy indeed.

      His project to convert the Bolger chinese rig to a conventional junk rig leaves me uncertain about his reasons. I have clipped this part of the story which I file here:

      "To handle the strong winds, we reefed and then scandalized the main by lowering the gaff's peak halyard," Jim said. "Even using a working jib, we had excessive weather helm. When a lazy jack broke, it dumped the whole works – boom, gaff, and sail – into the sea. It's turned out a rather poor rig for offshore. I'm ready to convert it to traditional full Chinese-junk rig, which I believe will work better."

      I hope others in this group will offer further opinions.

      Philippe.

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "q243w5" <q243w5@...> wrote:
      >
      > hello Philippe, I do not have personal experience but Jim Melcher changed his Bolger Manatee "Alert" to Bolger's chinese gaff rig and after I think one voyage converted to a true chinese junk. There is some info at http://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/Alert.htm. I think there is more info around regarding the conversions. robin
      >
      >
    • Bruce Hallman
      ... In a 2005 letter, I asked PCB about Melcher s interpretation of the Chinese Gaff rig, and PCB s reply is pasted below. My opinion is that Jim Melcher
      Message 2 of 10 , May 2 10:07 AM
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        > I hope others in this group will offer further opinions.
        >
        > Philippe.


        In a 2005 letter, I asked PCB about Melcher's interpretation of the
        "Chinese Gaff" rig, and PCB's reply is pasted below. My opinion is
        that Jim Melcher sailing rig is not a "Bolger Chinese Gaff", but
        rather a "Melcher Chinese Gaff".

        I own a Chinese Gaff rig, and mine (I think) is a closer
        interpretation of the Bolger design. Truth be told, I haven't tested
        it out anything remotely close to Jim Melcher, who has my great
        respect and who has sailed a zillion miles.

        In all honesty, I use my Micro Navigator mostly as a Marina Cruiser
        berth hangout and I just love it. That is, I typically use my boat as
        a downtown San Francisco crash pad. (Drink some tea, listen to the
        radio, surf the internet, read the newspaper, pop some popcorn, take a
        nap.) [Or, if there is a ballgame going on I will wander over to the
        stadium and watch baseball through the right field fence and/or try to
        nab some free tickets.]

        I have sailed her, and I can attest that the rig works as advertised.
        Bear in mind, that the rig has more than the usual complexity,
        required complexity due to the need to sail the boat from within the
        cabin. This is good in my case because I need that type of rig.
        Because, finding longer marina berths in San Francisco is essentially
        impossible. Just getting my cramped 16 foot marina berth took three
        years of begging the harbormaster.

        A sixteen foot comfortable cruising boat cannot have a cockpit,
        therefore the sailing rig must function from within the cabin. The
        Chinese Gaff is the only rig that I know that can do that. This has a
        GREAT advantage in that, without the wasting of space on a cockpit,
        the cabin of the boat can be a warm, well ventilated, sunny,
        non-claustrophobic, luxuriously upholstered piece of paradise. This
        is nothing short of a miracle in a 16 foot boat. And, is exactly
        what I want in a boat!

        (As I look at the other boaters in the marina, shivering in their
        cockpits wearing their gloves and their cold weather gear, with their
        claustrophobic cabins going unused.)



        ===========2005 PCB on the Jim Melcher rig==============
        PCB:"As to Melcher's problems, he rig was a makeshift in the first
        place. (to use as much of the existing gear and structure as
        possible and he also did not make the most of it in several ways.
        We did not at all like his sheeting arrangements when he was here,
        and thinks at least part of his trouble would have been avoidable
        with more thought.

        We made the [Micro Navigator] mizzen quite large since there have
        been complaints on other designs that they are not powerful enough
        to keep the bow to the wind, whereas it can be feathered (luffed) or
        furled if there's too heavy a helm.

        Of course, no boat the size of Micro can keep going against a gale,
        if only because the drift of the surface water will take her to
        leeward more or less. But I would expect her to hang on better than
        most."
      • c o'donnell
        It is reputed to break battens. ... === craig o donnell dadadata@friend.ly.net Box 232 Betterton Md 21610 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 10 , May 2 5:08 PM
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          It is reputed to break battens.

          On Apr 30, 2009, at 7:29 AM, Philippe wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hello,
          > I am Philippe and I am currently redesigning the rig of my Bruce
          > Roberts Spray 36. I find Phil Bolger's junk rig design interesting
          > in that it combines the functionality of a gaff headed main (which
          > I had on my Spray) and the ease of reefing provided by the junk rig
          > batten system. Does any of you have any experience with Bolger's
          > design and offer tips about performance, construction, etc ?
          >
          > Thanks.
          >
          > Philippe
          >
          >
          >



          === craig o'donnell
          dadadata@...
          Box 232 Betterton Md 21610





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Philippe
          Thanks for your assessment of Phil Bolger s chinese junker design. I am glad to hear that it works. My project, should I decide to forge ahead will involve a
          Message 4 of 10 , May 2 7:08 PM
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            Thanks for your assessment of Phil Bolger's chinese junker design. I am glad to hear that it works. My project, should I decide to forge ahead will involve a 575 sqf main and a 250 sqf foresail. I expect to have to build the battens with of fiberglass over wood core to minimize the fracture possibility.

            Philippe
          • stephenlneal
            I have been fascinated by PCB s Junk/Gaff Cat-Yawl rig on Yonder. So much flexibility! I d have to say that it is the most advanced rig for cruising I have
            Message 5 of 10 , May 3 10:49 AM
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              I have been fascinated by PCB's Junk/Gaff Cat-Yawl rig on Yonder. So much flexibility! I'd have to say that it is the most advanced rig for cruising I have ever seen.

              Stephen


              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I hope others in this group will offer further opinions.
              > >
              > > Philippe.
              >
              >
              > In a 2005 letter, I asked PCB about Melcher's interpretation of the
              > "Chinese Gaff" rig, and PCB's reply is pasted below. My opinion is
              > that Jim Melcher sailing rig is not a "Bolger Chinese Gaff", but
              > rather a "Melcher Chinese Gaff".
              >
              > I own a Chinese Gaff rig, and mine (I think) is a closer
              > interpretation of the Bolger design. Truth be told, I haven't tested
              > it out anything remotely close to Jim Melcher, who has my great
              > respect and who has sailed a zillion miles.
              >
              > In all honesty, I use my Micro Navigator mostly as a Marina Cruiser
              > berth hangout and I just love it. That is, I typically use my boat as
              > a downtown San Francisco crash pad. (Drink some tea, listen to the
              > radio, surf the internet, read the newspaper, pop some popcorn, take a
              > nap.) [Or, if there is a ballgame going on I will wander over to the
              > stadium and watch baseball through the right field fence and/or try to
              > nab some free tickets.]
              >
              > I have sailed her, and I can attest that the rig works as advertised.
              > Bear in mind, that the rig has more than the usual complexity,
              > required complexity due to the need to sail the boat from within the
              > cabin. This is good in my case because I need that type of rig.
              > Because, finding longer marina berths in San Francisco is essentially
              > impossible. Just getting my cramped 16 foot marina berth took three
              > years of begging the harbormaster.
              >
              > A sixteen foot comfortable cruising boat cannot have a cockpit,
              > therefore the sailing rig must function from within the cabin. The
              > Chinese Gaff is the only rig that I know that can do that. This has a
              > GREAT advantage in that, without the wasting of space on a cockpit,
              > the cabin of the boat can be a warm, well ventilated, sunny,
              > non-claustrophobic, luxuriously upholstered piece of paradise. This
              > is nothing short of a miracle in a 16 foot boat. And, is exactly
              > what I want in a boat!
              >
              > (As I look at the other boaters in the marina, shivering in their
              > cockpits wearing their gloves and their cold weather gear, with their
              > claustrophobic cabins going unused.)
              >
              >
              >
              > ===========2005 PCB on the Jim Melcher rig==============
              > PCB:"As to Melcher's problems, he rig was a makeshift in the first
              > place. (to use as much of the existing gear and structure as
              > possible and he also did not make the most of it in several ways.
              > We did not at all like his sheeting arrangements when he was here,
              > and thinks at least part of his trouble would have been avoidable
              > with more thought.
              >
              > We made the [Micro Navigator] mizzen quite large since there have
              > been complaints on other designs that they are not powerful enough
              > to keep the bow to the wind, whereas it can be feathered (luffed) or
              > furled if there's too heavy a helm.
              >
              > Of course, no boat the size of Micro can keep going against a gale,
              > if only because the drift of the surface water will take her to
              > leeward more or less. But I would expect her to hang on better than
              > most."
              >
            • graeme19121984
              When they are allowed to get before the mast - due to the compression load then introduced by the sheet leads.
              Message 6 of 10 , May 9 10:11 PM
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                When they are allowed to get before the mast - due to the compression load then introduced by the sheet leads.

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, c o'donnell <dadadata@...> wrote:

                > It is reputed to break battens.

                >
                > On Apr 30, 2009, at 7:29 AM, Philippe wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Hello,
                > > I am Philippe and I am currently redesigning the rig of my Bruce
                > > Roberts Spray 36. I find Phil Bolger's junk rig design interesting
                > > in that it combines the functionality of a gaff headed main (which
                > > I had on my Spray) and the ease of reefing provided by the junk rig
                > > batten system. Does any of you have any experience with Bolger's
                > > design and offer tips about performance, construction, etc ?
                > >
                > > Thanks.
                > >
                > > Philippe
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > === craig o'donnell
                > dadadata@...
                > Box 232 Betterton Md 21610
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • graeme19121984
                Junk rig on a Roberts Spray? Which is steel hulled, right? Speaking of which made me think of cruisin Annie Hill, who it seems went somewhat the opposite
                Message 7 of 10 , May 10 3:19 AM
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                  Junk rig on a Roberts Spray? Which is steel hulled, right?

                  Speaking of which made me think of cruisin' Annie Hill, who it seems went somewhat the opposite direction... April updates:

                  http://www.anniehill.blogspot.com/

                  http://www.annie-hill.blogspot.com/

                  Graeme
                • Stuart Crawford
                  I met Annie and Trevor on Iron Bark in April. Annie gave me some advice on converting my boat to junk rig. She was also involved in Jim Melcher converting
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 10 3:46 AM
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                    I met Annie and Trevor on Iron Bark in April. Annie gave me some advice on
                    converting my boat to junk rig. She was also involved in Jim Melcher
                    converting Alert/Manatee to full junk rig.

                    Annie is still very much in favour of junk rig. Trevor on the other hand
                    doesn¹t think much of junk rig. After about six hours talking to both of
                    them, I found Annie¹s position sounding the strongest when it came to rig of
                    choice. But that¹s not to say that Trevor doesn¹t know what he is talking
                    about, his experience puts that beyond doubt. It¹s just that Annie¹s
                    position sounds like easier sailing, which is my own preference.

                    Stuart.


                    On 10/5/09 10:19 PM, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Junk rig on a Roberts Spray? Which is steel hulled, right?
                    >
                    > Speaking of which made me think of cruisin' Annie Hill, who it seems went
                    > somewhat the opposite direction... April updates:
                    >
                    > http://www.anniehill.blogspot.com/
                    >
                    > http://www.annie-hill.blogspot.com/
                    >
                    > Graeme
                    >

                    --
                    http://www.nomadichome.com
                    http://keltwegiankiwi.blogspot.com



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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