Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [bolger] AS29 Repower- Options?

Expand Messages
  • Michael Wagner
    I have an AS-29. I have an old (1991) Yamaha 9.9. It still runs, but it is in need of an overhaul. It smokes a little, is sometimes hard to start, etc. I doubt
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
      I have an AS-29.

      I have an old (1991) Yamaha 9.9. It still runs, but it is in need of an overhaul. It smokes a little, is sometimes hard to start, etc. I doubt I will have the $ to replace it, so we just nurse it along. If I do replace it, it will probably be with a new 9.9.

      I sometimes have trouble with getting the boat to run downwind. She always tries to round up on me, and generates a lot of weather helm. Any ideas?

      --- On Fri, 2/6/09, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...> wrote:
      From: Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
      Subject: Re: [bolger] AS29 Repower- Options?
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 6:45 PM












      Did you just wear it out?



      Sincerely,

      Gene T.



      On 6 Feb, 2009, at 6:38 PM, freshairfiend wrote:



      > Howdy all,

      >

      > I need to get a new engine to replace the T9.9 Yamaha on my AS29. The

      > obvious course is to replace it with another of the same, but before

      > laying out the cash, I'm wondering if anyone here has used a different

      > engine on the AS29, and how it worked out- speed, fuel consumption,

      > reliability, motoring into strong headwinds, etc.

      >

      > Or, has everyone just used the Yamaha... :-) Thanks.

      >

      >

      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


































      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gene Tehansky
      Michael, Well first thought was pull up the boards but I think that might amplify your problem. How about jibing the sails so they are pulling on the opposite
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
        Michael,
        Well first thought was pull up the boards but I think that might
        amplify your problem. How about jibing the sails so they are pulling
        on the opposite side which would tend to turn the boat the other
        direction. Althought that is a dumb suggestion, how do I know what
        side the sails are on in the first place... Are you talking dead
        down wind or off to the side somewhat?

        Sincerely,
        Gene T.

        On 7 Feb, 2009, at 8:17 AM, Michael Wagner wrote:

        > I have an AS-29.
        >
        > I have an old (1991) Yamaha 9.9. It still runs, but it is in need
        > of an overhaul. It smokes a little, is sometimes hard to start,
        > etc. I doubt I will have the $ to replace it, so we just nurse it
        > along. If I do replace it, it will probably be with a new 9.9.
        >
        > I sometimes have trouble with getting the boat to run downwind. She
        > always tries to round up on me, and generates a lot of weather
        > helm. Any ideas?
        >
        > --- On Fri, 2/6/09, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
        > wrote:
        > From: Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
        > Subject: Re: [bolger] AS29 Repower- Options?
        > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 6:45 PM
        >
        > Did you just wear it out?
        >
        > Sincerely,
        >
        > Gene T.
        >
        > On 6 Feb, 2009, at 6:38 PM, freshairfiend wrote:
        >
        > > Howdy all,
        >
        > >
        >
        > > I need to get a new engine to replace the T9.9 Yamaha on my AS29.
        > The
        >
        > > obvious course is to replace it with another of the same, but before
        >
        > > laying out the cash, I'm wondering if anyone here has used a
        > different
        >
        > > engine on the AS29, and how it worked out- speed, fuel consumption,
        >
        > > reliability, motoring into strong headwinds, etc.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Or, has everyone just used the Yamaha... :-) Thanks.
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... Cat Yawl rigs like the AS-29, have a big main sail forward and a small mizzen sail hanging off the stern transom. The standard advice when you have trouble
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
          >sometimes have trouble with getting the boat to run downwind.
          >She always tries to round up on me, and generates a lot of weather helm. Any ideas?

          Cat Yawl rigs like the AS-29, have a big main sail forward and a small
          mizzen sail hanging off the stern transom.
          The standard advice when you have trouble pointing downwind is to furl
          the mizzen sail.
          This shifts the center of the sail area forward which, hopefully,
          should help the problem.
        • freshairfiend
          Yes, the AS29 is a real handful off-wind. Dropping the mizzen only helps a little; Short of a re-rig, I think the only real solution would be to add the
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
            Yes, the AS29 is a real handful off-wind. Dropping the mizzen only
            helps a little; Short of a re-rig, I think the only real "solution"
            would be to add the single-luff spinnaker shown on the plans, bringing
            the center of effort more in line with the hull.

            I've sometimes wondered if re-rigging as a balanced lug, with a larger
            mizzen to preserve the windward center of effort location, would help
            the AS29's downwind control. I think it would, but I haven't tried it.

            There's a couple other down-wind (or quartering wave under power)
            issues with the AS29; the rudder is very shallow, and perhaps a bit
            small, so it tends to get caught in the circular internal flow of the
            wave at the surface, and lose power. And the flat bottom/hard chine
            aft sections tend to pick up buoyancy from oncoming quartering waves
            at the edge of the hull, so she rolls and swings around more easily
            than if the buoyancy was more at the centerline of the hull (as in a
            V-bottom).

            @Gene:

            My 9.9 is a 1992 model with high hours, used in salt water, and has
            serious corrosion issues. When I pulled the lower unit to see why it
            wasn't pumping water, the water tube just fell out; the mounting had
            corroded away... When we totted up the cost for parts to rebuild, it
            came to over $1500, + time; not worth it.

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
            >
            > >sometimes have trouble with getting the boat to run downwind.
            > >She always tries to round up on me, and generates a lot of weather
            helm. Any ideas?
            >
            > Cat Yawl rigs like the AS-29, have a big main sail forward and a small
            > mizzen sail hanging off the stern transom.
            > The standard advice when you have trouble pointing downwind is to furl
            > the mizzen sail.
            > This shifts the center of the sail area forward which, hopefully,
            > should help the problem.
            >
          • mark hamill
            Yamaha has a second factory in China. The OB s are manufactured under the name Parsun. They are less expensive than Yamaha named OB ex 9.9hp $1399 USD
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
              Yamaha has a second factory in China. The OB's are manufactured under the name Parsun.
              They are less expensive than Yamaha named OB' ex 9.9hp $1399 USD http://www.worldoutboards.com/
            • loosemoosefilmworks
              We had been planning to get rid of the outboard and were beginning to look into an electric propulsion system for Loose Moose 2...Sadly we never got around to
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
                We had been planning to get rid of the outboard and were beginning to
                look into an electric propulsion system for Loose Moose 2...Sadly we
                never got around to it before we lost LM2.

                We have been very happy with our current experiments with electric
                propulsion on our current boat and now have five years of experience
                and it works plus it is a lot cheaper than a four stroke outboard!

                On the downwind problems with the AS29 a very simple solution is to
                use the flat cut spinnaker that Phil drew for it or even easier buy a
                small used ( ($100) jib with a wire luff at Bacons or other used sail
                broker and simply set it flying. we have some 5000 miles of downwind
                sailing on LM2 and the Jib made it super easy. The only cost involved
                it a block a halyard and a couple of sheets...

                Bob
                http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
              • freshairfiend
                Bob, Can you describe, at least in general terms, how you would go about putting electric final drive on the LM2 or the AS29? Some sort of electric outboard,
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
                  Bob,

                  Can you describe, at least in general terms, how you would go about
                  putting electric final drive on the LM2 or the AS29? Some sort of
                  electric outboard, or would you move the propulsive gear inboard? 'X'
                  battery capacity for 'Y' range? A genset for getting up longer rivers
                  and canals?

                  John

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "loosemoosefilmworks"
                  <loosemoosefilmworks@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > We had been planning to get rid of the outboard and were beginning to
                  > look into an electric propulsion system for Loose Moose 2...Sadly we
                  > never got around to it before we lost LM2.
                  >
                  > We have been very happy with our current experiments with electric
                  > propulsion on our current boat and now have five years of experience
                  > and it works plus it is a lot cheaper than a four stroke outboard!
                • lancefgunderson
                  ... helm. Any ideas? ... If the mizzen is sheeted in too tight she won t bear off; slacken it. Also raise your centerboard. Cat yawls usually have the opposite
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >sometimes have trouble with getting the boat to run downwind.
                    > >She always tries to round up on me, and generates a lot of weather
                    helm. Any ideas?
                    >
                    > Cat Yawl rigs like the AS-29, have a big main sail forward and a small
                    > mizzen sail hanging off the stern transom.
                    > The standard advice when you have trouble pointing downwind is to furl
                    > the mizzen sail.
                    > This shifts the center of the sail area forward which, hopefully,
                    > should help the problem.
                    >


                    If the mizzen is sheeted in too tight she won't bear off; slacken it.
                    Also raise your centerboard. Cat yawls usually have the opposite
                    problem..they don't like to go to windward. I've never had a problem
                    getting them to go downwind. When under power in a fresh breeze I've
                    had trouble getting them to round up. The windage on that big mast is
                    considerable.
                  • djdecker2002
                    ... I m not Bob, and my Bolger Cruising Boat is in the dream stage, but if I were to consider converting an AS29, or another sailing vessel that used an
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "freshairfiend" <freshairfiend@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Bob,
                      >
                      > Can you describe, at least in general terms, how you would go about
                      > putting electric final drive on the LM2 or the AS29? Some sort of
                      > electric outboard, or would you move the propulsive gear inboard? 'X'
                      > battery capacity for 'Y' range? A genset for getting up longer rivers
                      > and canals?

                      I'm not Bob, and my Bolger Cruising Boat is in the dream stage, but if
                      I were to consider converting an AS29, or another sailing vessel that
                      used an outboard for auxiliary power, to electric drive I'd consider
                      looking at the E-Pods from RE-E-Power at <http://re-e-power.com/>

                      These are self-contained units that can be attached to the outside of
                      the hull, and used for propulsion, or for electrical generation while
                      under sail. You'd have to pull the boat to install these, but you'd
                      have to do that in any case if converting to inboard propulsion.

                      I suspect a sufficiently clever individual could arrange to mount one
                      off the stern in an outboard-like arrangement, so the pod could be
                      raised if not required for propulsion or generation, or for
                      maintenance after you hit that log. This would power the boat in the
                      manner most similar to what the designer intended. I don't know if
                      this has ever been done, though.

                      -Derek
                    • jcjglt
                      RE-E-POWER have an interesting Yahoo!Group named RE-E-POWER_World_Forum. This group deserves the attention of any one interested by the electric repowering of
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
                        RE-E-POWER have an interesting Yahoo!Group named
                        RE-E-POWER_World_Forum. This group deserves the attention of any one
                        interested by the electric repowering of a boat.
                        jcjglt

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "djdecker2002" <djdecker2002@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "freshairfiend" <freshairfiend@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Bob,
                        > >
                        > > Can you describe, at least in general terms, how you would go about
                        > > putting electric final drive on the LM2 or the AS29? Some sort of
                        > > electric outboard, or would you move the propulsive gear inboard? 'X'
                        > > battery capacity for 'Y' range? A genset for getting up longer rivers
                        > > and canals?
                        >
                        > I'm not Bob, and my Bolger Cruising Boat is in the dream stage, but if
                        > I were to consider converting an AS29, or another sailing vessel that
                        > used an outboard for auxiliary power, to electric drive I'd consider
                        > looking at the E-Pods from RE-E-Power at <http://re-e-power.com/>
                        >
                        > These are self-contained units that can be attached to the outside of
                        > the hull, and used for propulsion, or for electrical generation while
                        > under sail. You'd have to pull the boat to install these, but you'd
                        > have to do that in any case if converting to inboard propulsion.
                        >
                        > I suspect a sufficiently clever individual could arrange to mount one
                        > off the stern in an outboard-like arrangement, so the pod could be
                        > raised if not required for propulsion or generation, or for
                        > maintenance after you hit that log. This would power the boat in the
                        > manner most similar to what the designer intended. I don't know if
                        > this has ever been done, though.
                        >
                        > -Derek
                        >
                      • Michael Wagner
                        Tried furling the mizzen, she still rounds up. Tried reefing the main, she still rounds up. Tried lifting the board, no luck. Even going to windward, there is
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 8, 2009
                          Tried furling the mizzen, she still rounds up. Tried reefing the main, she still rounds up. Tried lifting the board, no luck. Even going to windward, there is so much weather helm, I have to keep the tiller at about 45 degrees and that slows the boat down to a crawl.

                          I'm thinking I've got too much twist in the main. I also have a lot of windage aft because of the hard bimini/pilothouse, solar panels and wind generator all mounted just forward of the mizzen.

                          I'm thinking of putting a big junk sail on the mainmast instead of the gaff. That will move the CE forward and I'll be able to control the twist in the sail.

                          Ideas? suggestions?
                          --- On Sat, 2/7/09, lancefgunderson <lancefgunderson@...> wrote:
                          From: lancefgunderson <lancefgunderson@...>
                          Subject: [bolger] Re: AS29 Repower- Options?
                          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 10:22 PM












                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:

                          >

                          > >sometimes have trouble with getting the boat to run downwind.

                          > >She always tries to round up on me, and generates a lot of weather

                          helm. Any ideas?

                          >

                          > Cat Yawl rigs like the AS-29, have a big main sail forward and a small

                          > mizzen sail hanging off the stern transom.

                          > The standard advice when you have trouble pointing downwind is to furl

                          > the mizzen sail.

                          > This shifts the center of the sail area forward which, hopefully,

                          > should help the problem.

                          >



                          If the mizzen is sheeted in too tight she won't bear off; slacken it.

                          Also raise your centerboard. Cat yawls usually have the opposite

                          problem..they don't like to go to windward. I've never had a problem

                          getting them to go downwind. When under power in a fresh breeze I've

                          had trouble getting them to round up. The windage on that big mast is

                          considerable.


































                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Michael Walther
                          Hi Derek, Good thinking you have going on there, as well as link to good web site, thanks, Mike
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 8, 2009
                            Hi Derek, Good thinking you have going on there, as well as link to good web site, thanks, Mike


                            --- On Sun, 2/8/09, djdecker2002 <djdecker2002@...> wrote:

                            > From: djdecker2002 <djdecker2002@...>
                            > Subject: [bolger] Re: AS29 Repower- Options?
                            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 5:44 AM
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "freshairfiend"
                            > <freshairfiend@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Bob,
                            > >
                            > > Can you describe, at least in general terms, how you
                            > would go about
                            > > putting electric final drive on the LM2 or the AS29?
                            > Some sort of
                            > > electric outboard, or would you move the propulsive
                            > gear inboard? 'X'
                            > > battery capacity for 'Y' range? A genset for
                            > getting up longer rivers
                            > > and canals?
                            >
                            > I'm not Bob, and my Bolger Cruising Boat is in the
                            > dream stage, but if
                            > I were to consider converting an AS29, or another sailing
                            > vessel that
                            > used an outboard for auxiliary power, to electric drive
                            > I'd consider
                            > looking at the E-Pods from RE-E-Power at
                            > <http://re-e-power.com/>
                            >
                            > These are self-contained units that can be attached to the
                            > outside of
                            > the hull, and used for propulsion, or for electrical
                            > generation while
                            > under sail. You'd have to pull the boat to install
                            > these, but you'd
                            > have to do that in any case if converting to inboard
                            > propulsion.
                            >
                            > I suspect a sufficiently clever individual could arrange to
                            > mount one
                            > off the stern in an outboard-like arrangement, so the pod
                            > could be
                            > raised if not required for propulsion or generation, or for
                            > maintenance after you hit that log. This would power the
                            > boat in the
                            > manner most similar to what the designer intended. I
                            > don't know if
                            > this has ever been done, though.
                            >
                            > -Derek
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Bolger rules!!!
                            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
                            > flogging dead horses
                            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
                            > thanks, Fred' posts
                            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and
                            > snip away
                            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
                            > MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > - Open discussion:
                            > bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups
                            > Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • loosemoosefilmworks
                            I built my current electric drive out of off the shelf golf cart parts. The total price for a system that has worked very well for five years was less than
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 8, 2009
                              I built my current electric drive out of off the shelf golf cart
                              parts. The total price for a system that has worked very well for five
                              years was less than $1000.

                              On the Loose Moose design or AS29 I be more inclined to go with a
                              shaft and prop solution rather than an E-Pod sort. There are many
                              reasons for this but the first and foremost is cost followed by the
                              fact that a motor connected to a shaft is pretty darn simple and
                              anyone able to build his own Bolger boat is plenty handy enough to
                              keep it running.

                              If you are interested in going the DIY/golf cart route you can get a
                              pretty complete kit for right around $1000 from Thunderstruck
                              http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm or if you want to step
                              up to the next level Electric Yacht http://www.electricyacht.com/
                              makes and awesome drop in unit that uses a real state of the art
                              controller designed for a boats electric propulsion needs...Point of
                              fact is I'm installing one of the Electric Yacht systems in my boat
                              this week and am designing it into the next Loose Moose ( a Sharpie a
                              bit bigger than LM2 but not a Bolger design) which I will be building
                              next year.

                              I'd also add a bit of a keelet to protect the prop...Which would also
                              have the side effect of solving your problems with the weather helm
                              that the Loose Moose and AS29 are prone to due to the rather small
                              size of their respective rudders. While Sheila and I were in The
                              Canaries we talked with Phil about solving the weather helm problem
                              and one of his suggestions was the keelet. As it happens we did not
                              use the keelet but instead added a a pair of small vertical wings to
                              the wing on the rudder which made the handling of LM2 pretty close to
                              perfect. FYI the winglets we used were simply outboard Doelfins (
                              http://www.davisnet.com/Marine/products/list_marine.asp?grp=m18-2)
                              that we bolted on...a simple and cheap solution!

                              Hope this helps...

                              Bob
                              http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
                            • paulthober
                              Have you consulted the designer, and if so what did he have to say? paul ... main, she still rounds up. Tried lifting the board, no luck. Even going to
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 8, 2009
                                Have you consulted the designer, and if so what did he have to say?


                                paul


                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Michael Wagner <willers32@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Tried furling the mizzen, she still rounds up. Tried reefing the
                                main, she still rounds up. Tried lifting the board, no luck. Even
                                going to windward, there is so much weather helm, I have to keep the
                                tiller at about 45 degrees and that slows the boat down to a crawl.
                                >
                                > I'm thinking I've got too much twist in the main. I also have a lot
                                of windage aft because of the hard bimini/pilothouse, solar panels and
                                wind generator all mounted just forward of the mizzen.
                                >
                                > I'm thinking of putting a big junk sail on the mainmast instead of
                                the gaff. That will move the CE forward and I'll be able to control
                                the twist in the sail.
                                >
                                > Ideas? suggestions?
                                > --- On Sat, 2/7/09, lancefgunderson <lancefgunderson@...> wrote:
                                > From: lancefgunderson <lancefgunderson@...>
                                > Subject: [bolger] Re: AS29 Repower- Options?
                                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 10:22 PM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > >sometimes have trouble with getting the boat to run downwind.
                                >
                                > > >She always tries to round up on me, and generates a lot of weather
                                >
                                > helm. Any ideas?
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > Cat Yawl rigs like the AS-29, have a big main sail forward and a small
                                >
                                > > mizzen sail hanging off the stern transom.
                                >
                                > > The standard advice when you have trouble pointing downwind is to furl
                                >
                                > > the mizzen sail.
                                >
                                > > This shifts the center of the sail area forward which, hopefully,
                                >
                                > > should help the problem.
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > If the mizzen is sheeted in too tight she won't bear off; slacken it.
                                >
                                > Also raise your centerboard. Cat yawls usually have the opposite
                                >
                                > problem..they don't like to go to windward. I've never had a problem
                                >
                                > getting them to go downwind. When under power in a fresh breeze I've
                                >
                                > had trouble getting them to round up. The windage on that big mast is
                                >
                                > considerable.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Bruce Hallman
                                ... It is hard to diagnose via email, but excess windage aft would tend to cause a problem similar to the problem you describe. I too recommend asking PB&F
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 9, 2009
                                  > I'm thinking I've got too much twist in the main. I also have a lot
                                  > of windage aft because of the hard bimini/pilothouse, solar panels and
                                  > wind generator all mounted just forward of the mizzen.

                                  It is hard to diagnose via email, but excess windage aft would tend to
                                  cause a problem similar to the problem you describe. I too recommend
                                  asking PB&F for advice. I am guessing you either need more lateral
                                  plane aft, or sail area forward. Using the spinnaker might do the
                                  trick.

                                  See:

                                  http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/3266168457/
                                • freshairfiend
                                  Bob, Derek, thanks much for the suggestions and the links. I ve been interested in electric final drive for quite a while, and it seems to be a viable
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 13, 2009
                                    Bob, Derek, thanks much for the suggestions and the links. I've been
                                    interested in electric final drive for quite a while, and it seems to
                                    be a viable proposition.

                                    And thanks again, Bob, for the "Doelfins" idea. :-)

                                    ---
                                    AS29 Weather helm:

                                    Michael, you *do* have a problem there... My AS29 was built to plan,
                                    and to windward I have very neutral helm; so there is something about
                                    your boat or trim specifically that is giving you the problem.

                                    For going to windward, I peak up the gaff pretty hard, and there is a
                                    distinct wrinkle in the mainsail (when the sail is not full), which
                                    tends to reduce twist. The other thing you can try, which I do
                                    close-reaching and farther off, is to set the vang to the lee rail (as
                                    shown on the plans, but mine is double purchase), even to windward,
                                    and haul it down hard. This really reduces twist, and I can get the
                                    tell-tales at top, middle, and bottom of the sail all showing good
                                    trim at the same time. If you can reduce twist, you can ease the boom
                                    quite a ways out, so there will be less steering effect from having it
                                    tight-in.

                                    I know there are at least a couple AS29's that have the hard-top and
                                    solar panel set-up; I wonder if the other one(s) are having the same
                                    weather helm problem you are? Interested, as I would like the weather
                                    protection also.

                                    John

                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "loosemoosefilmworks"
                                    <loosemoosefilmworks@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I built my current electric drive out of off the shelf golf cart
                                    > parts. The total price for a system that has worked very well for five
                                    > years was less than $1000.(snip)
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.
                                  »
                                  «