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Re: [bolger] Re: Small boat vs. small boat

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  • Bruce Hallman
    On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:18 PM, ladycathyofwales ... Sailing better is such a subjective concept. The Teal is probably faster, but faster isn t better
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
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      On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:18 PM, ladycathyofwales
      <catherine.james@...> wrote:
      >
      > Bruce, having built both the Teal and Tortoise, what would you say are
      > the advantages of the Teal, other than appearance? Does it sail
      > better upwind?
      >
      > Cathy

      Sailing 'better' is such a subjective concept. The Teal is probably
      faster, but faster isn't better unless the purpose is racing, or
      transportation getting somewhere quick. In my case, the purpose is
      sailing lazy circles around the cove on a summer day. For that
      purpose, the Tortoise was the better boat. It 'feels' plenty fast
      when you sail it, and it is easy to haul to the lake and launch. I
      chopped up my first too heavy Tortoise. I gave away the Teal and still
      love my second (lighter weight) Tortoise.
    • Jim Michaels
      Anybody thought about a Junebug?   I ve seen some beautiful Junebugs and they are very versitile (can be rowed, paddled or sailed).   I plan to build one
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
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        Anybody thought about a Junebug?   I've seen some beautiful Junebugs and they are very versitile (can be rowed, paddled or sailed).   I plan to build one next year, starting Jan 1, 2010 (I made a pledge to the family that I would take a year off of boat building).

        Jim in St. Louis

        --- On Mon, 2/2/09, David C. <d.cassidy@...> wrote:
        From: David C. <d.cassidy@...>
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Small boat vs. small boat
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 8:20 AM











        I built an Elegant Punt several years ago to act as the tender to a Catalina 22. Nice boat. I always got compliments at the dinghy dock. I, too , would put two adults and two small kids in it (plus a couple of bags of stuff -- food, towels -- gas can) for rowing out to the mooring.



        I built exactly to the plans/specs, with the bottom covered in fiberglass. I could lift it into the bed of a pickup, or maybe even carry it a few feet hanging off my shoulder, but I would have had trouble putting it on the roof of a car by myself (It's not long enough to lift one end at a time as high as a car roof). With two people, it would be easy.



        I've never built the other two, but I have the plans and have studied them. I don't think any of these would be more or less difficult to build than the others. They're all pretty simple and about the same procedure -- cut out the sides -- join them with the stem/transom; put in the chines and gunwales; measure and install the bottom; finish the interior and the sailing bits; paint.



        DavidC



        ---- Jamie Orr <jas_orr@yahoo. com> wrote:

        > I built an Elegant Punt for/with my eight year old son because it

        > didn't need epoxy or glass, which meant he could safely help. It

        > turned out to be a great little boat, it carried the whole family

        > (four of us) while the kids were small (about ages 9 and 12) and it's

        > still in use 12 years later, protected only by oil paint over the fir

        > ply. It sails well enough with the standard instant boat rig, over-

        > the-side daggerboard and all.

        >

        > Jamie

        >

        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "ladycathyofwales"

        > <catherine.james@ ...> wrote:

        > >

        > >

        > > Looking at the smallest Bolger boats, I'm trying to determine the

        > > tradeoffs between Tortoise, Elegant Punt, and perhaps Teal. All 3

        > > seem to be simple one-man boats, with Teal a little harder to build

        > > but probably a better sailor. Are all 3 realistically car-toppable?

        > >

        > > Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer

        > that

        > > has gotten so much attention?

        > >

        > > Cathy

        > >

        >

        >

        >

        > ------------ --------- --------- ------

        >

        > Bolger rules!!!

        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!

        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses

        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts

        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away

        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349

        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com

        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_ lounge-subscribe @yahoogroups. com Yahoo! Groups Links

        >

        >

        >



























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Myles J. Swift
        Jim Michaels asks Anybody thought about a Junebug? I ve seen some beautiful Junebugs and they are very versitile (can be rowed, paddled or sailed). I love
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
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          Jim Michaels asks "Anybody thought about a Junebug? I've seen some beautiful Junebugs and they are very versitile (can be rowed, paddled or sailed)."

          I love my June Bug. If the wind is up I can stay with the Lasers. Rowing in the early calm is nice. I set up both rowing positions and we do that for exercise when we are at our cabin. Sailing with two adults is do-able but not quick. Rowing is good with one, two or three aboard.

          I'd not put JuneBug at the top of the listed of car toppers. 20 year ago I would have been able to do that easily, not so much now. A June Bug trailer can be very minimal. Mine is a sprung axle kit welded to an old bed frame. Somebody else made it years ago but it work great and is June Bug is very quick to launch and retrieve.

          We've lifted June Bug over the rocks at a local messabout. It is easy for 3, work for 2, and I wouldn't try it alone.

          MylesJ

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ladycathyofwales
          Even without racing, faster can be better. If you are sailing upstream against a current, or in tidal waters against the tide, even 1 kt extra matters.
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
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            Even without racing, faster can be better. If you are sailing
            upstream against a current, or in tidal waters against the tide, even
            1 kt extra matters. Likewise, ability to sail closer to the wind can
            save you quite a bit of time when it's time to return to the dock.

            That said, after reviewing various comments on the Net about the
            Teal, I've concluded that it's too unstable to trust in anything
            close to open water (e.g., gunkholing in Massachusetts bays). Looks
            like a fun boat for inland lakes.

            Cathy

            > Cathy wrote:
            >> Bruce, having built both the Teal and Tortoise, what would
            >> you say are the advantages of the Teal, other than appearance?
            >> Does it sail better upwind?

            Bruce replied:
            > Sailing 'better' is such a subjective concept. The Teal is probably
            > faster, but faster isn't better unless the purpose is racing, or
            > transportation getting somewhere quick.
          • Bruce Hallman
            ... I took my Teal out in San Francisco Bay, (Raccoon Strait), and have beach launched and sailed it coastal in the Pacific Ocean too. Paying close attention
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
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              > That said, after reviewing various comments on the Net about the
              > Teal, I've concluded that it's too unstable to trust in anything
              > close to open water (e.g., gunkholing in Massachusetts bays). Looks
              > like a fun boat for inland lakes.
              >
              > Cathy

              I took my Teal out in San Francisco Bay, (Raccoon Strait), and have
              beach launched and sailed it coastal in the Pacific Ocean too. Paying
              close attention to current and weather forecast of course! Perhaps I
              should have been more worried, but I didn't feel I was taking
              excessive risk.
            • Jim Michaels
              Cathy: In response to the following: Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer that ... My sons (age 10 & ll)  and I built a PD Racer
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
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                Cathy:

                In response to the following:

                Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer that

                > has gotten so much attention?


                My sons (age 10 & ll)  and I built a PD Racer last summer and had a blast!

                It is log and chine construction, we used no epoxy - only Titebond II and PL Premium construction cement.  We painted it with latex enamel paint and made a polytarp sail (the Bolger 59 Leg 'O Muttom rig).  It sails great, weighs 90lbs. (car-toppable on our Volvo) and seats me and my 2 kids comfortably.  It is very stable.  The cost was under $200.00  The PD Racer is a variation of the Bolger Brick - Shorty Routh, founder of the PD Racer group, built a Brick, then fiddled with the hull rocker.   The PD Racer is an easy to build, inexpensive and fun entry level sailboat.   I am really glad I built it as my first sailboat because it was so easy, yet I learned a lot about boat building.

                Anyway, the PD Racer Website details the birth of the PD Racer in 2003.  Nearly  300 of these boats have actually been built, and there are many variations.   I think most of the builders, though somewhat dubious initally, have been thrilled by the fun of sailing the finished product.   I believe the reason we are hitting 300 owes to the ease of the build, the strength of support within the PD Racer Community, and the fun of the finished boat.

                Personally, I am ready to "move up" from that build -  Basically, I want to build a sharpie now that I've built a scow.   That is why I am setting my sights on the Junebug.  

                I know the PD Racer is not in name a Bolger Design, but It is a variation on the Brick - and with the Bolger 59 Leg 'O Muttom rig, it has a lot of Bolger in it (I love that rig). 

                Good Luck!

                Jim in St. Louis


                --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                From: Harry James <welshman@...>
                Subject: Re: [bolger] Small boat vs. small boat
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 11:42 PM











                I have built a couple of Elegant punts and I can easily carry it on my

                back and would have no problem getting it up on a car. I am 64 with a

                back that is 5 years older.



                HJ



                ladycathyofwales wrote:

                > Looking at the smallest Bolger boats, I'm trying to determine the

                > tradeoffs between Tortoise, Elegant Punt, and perhaps Teal. All 3

                > seem to be simple one-man boats, with Teal a little harder to build

                > but probably a better sailor. Are all 3 realistically car-toppable?

                >

                > Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer that

                > has gotten so much attention?

                >

                > Cathy

                >

                >

                >

                > ------------ --------- --------- ------

                >

                > Bolger rules!!!

                > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!

                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses

                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts

                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away

                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349

                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com

                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_ lounge-subscribe @yahoogroups. com Yahoo! Groups Links

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >



























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • graeme19121984
                There s Bolger s Big Tortoise (Payson calls it a Brick too). Little extra weight than Tortoise, same pile of materials, for a longer waterline. [ Hey gang,
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 3, 2009
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                  There's Bolger's Big Tortoise (Payson calls it a Brick too). Little
                  extra weight than Tortoise, same pile of materials, for a longer
                  waterline.

                  [ Hey gang, what is the design number for this one? It is not on the
                  group database, and Dynamite doesn't include it in his study plans
                  packet (yet it is in there on the price sheet). I've heard tell that
                  it is actually a plan of Dynamite's own doing to compete with the
                  Brick as once offered by Bernie Wolfard, but Dynamite wouldn't mess
                  with PCB's name... eg. it is clearly marked as a "Phillip C Bolger"
                  plan, but I can't make out the number at the Instant Boats site:
                  http://www.instantboats.com/brick.htm ]

                  Another small easily cartopped boat (the brief was for a pair of
                  toppers), and well recommended by PCB, is the Peero. If thought too
                  unstable, add stability like Gregg did:

                  http://www.carlsondesign.com/projects.html#Pirogue
                  bet that sailed ok against wind and tide

                  Plans and building guide are still here:

                  http://www.friend.ly.net/users/dadadata/boat/bolger.html#peero

                  and I believe the price is unchanged.

                  Graeme
                • graeme19121984
                  There s Bolger s Big Tortoise (Payson calls it a Brick too). Little extra weight than Tortoise, same pile of materials, for a longer waterline. [ Hey gang,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 3, 2009
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                    There's Bolger's Big Tortoise (Payson calls it a Brick too). Little
                    extra weight than Tortoise, same pile of materials, for a longer
                    waterline.

                    [ Hey gang, what is the design number for this one? It is not on the
                    group database, and Dynamite doesn't include it in his study plans
                    packet (yet it is in there on the price sheet). I've heard tell that
                    it is actually a plan of Dynamite's own doing to compete with the
                    Brick as once offered by Bernie Wolfard, but Dynamite wouldn't mess
                    with PCB's name... eg. it is clearly marked as a "Phillip C Bolger"
                    plan, but I can't make out the number at the Instant Boats site:
                    http://www.instantboats.com/brick.htm ]

                    Another small easily cartopped boat (the brief was for a pair of
                    toppers), and well recommended by PCB, is the Peero. If thought too
                    unstable, add stability like Gregg did:

                    http://www.carlsondesign.com/projects.html#Pirogue
                    bet that sailed ok against wind and tide

                    Plans and building guide are still here:

                    http://www.friend.ly.net/users/dadadata/boat/bolger.html#peero

                    and I believe the price is unchanged.

                    Graeme



                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I've found that, if two boats are about the same weight, the longer
                    boat
                    > will be easier to get on top of a car.
                  • Charles Rouse
                    - In bolger@yahoogroups.com, graeme19121984 wrote: Hi, I have the plans for that boat, and the boat in the garage. I need to paint it
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 4, 2009
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                      - In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                      wrote:


                      Hi, I have the plans for that boat, and the boat in the garage. I
                      need to paint it and put on the rig. I hope to sail it this spring.
                      The number on the plan is #597. There's no name, but the plan
                      indicates it's for "Montgomery Boat Yard." It's more of a Stretch
                      Tortoise than a Brick. I adapted the rig myself, using the Brick as
                      an example.Mr. Payson has some information about this one in his
                      latest book.

                      Charles Rouse

                      > There's Bolger's Big Tortoise (Payson calls it a Brick too). Little
                      > extra weight than Tortoise, same pile of materials, for a longer
                      > waterline.
                      >
                      > [ Hey gang, what is the design number for this one? It is not on
                      the
                      > group database, and Dynamite doesn't include it in his study plans
                      > packet (yet it is in there on the price sheet). I've heard tell
                      that
                      > it is actually a plan of Dynamite's own doing to compete with the
                      > Brick as once offered by Bernie Wolfard, but Dynamite wouldn't mess
                      > with PCB's name... eg. it is clearly marked as a "Phillip C Bolger"
                      > plan, but I can't make out the number at the Instant Boats site:
                      > http://www.instantboats.com/brick.htm ]
                      >
                    • graeme19121984
                      ... Thankyou Charles, I ve entered the info in the database. Fair winds this spring Graeme
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 6, 2009
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Rouse" <ro43use@...> wrote:
                        > Hi, I have the plans for that boat, and the boat in the garage...

                        Thankyou Charles,

                        I've entered the info in the database.

                        Fair winds this spring
                        Graeme
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