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Re: Converting my AS29 to a trimaran (opinions?)

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  • adventures_in_astrophotography
    Hi Bob, ... How well does your Chinese lug schooner go to windward as a monohull? Jon
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 2, 2009
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      Hi Bob,

      > We're considering a trimaran conversion of our ASharpie. We're
      > contemplating a relocation from Alaska to Panama, downwind most of the
      > way, and wonder if it would increase stability and good ride as well
      > as virtually sinkproof the boat. With a potential cutwater on the bow
      > added. Our current rig is schooner chinese lugsail. It would go to
      > windward not worth a darn but has a engine. Any opinions would be
      > most appreciated. Thank you. BoB G.

      How well does your Chinese lug schooner go to windward as a monohull?

      Jon
    • paulthober
      Generally monohulls are deemed to be more appropriate for passage-making, particularly in the smaller sizes - a 29 foot trimaran is considered small. Small
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 5, 2009
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        Generally monohulls are deemed to be more appropriate for
        passage-making, particularly in the smaller sizes - a 29 foot trimaran
        is considered small. Small multihulls are considered more likely to
        suffer an irreversible catastrophe - a capsized monohull will in all
        likelyhood right itself, a multihull, not so much.

        I am curious as to your plan; will you go offshore or attempt to hop
        from port to port?

        paul


        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
        >
        > We're considering a trimaran conversion of our ASharpie. We're
        > contemplating a relocation from Alaska to Panama, downwind most of the
        > way, and wonder if it would increase stability and good ride as well
        > as virtually sinkproof the boat. With a potential cutwater on the bow
        > added. Our current rig is schooner chinese lugsail. It would go to
        > windward not worth a darn but has a engine. Any opinions would be
        > most appreciated. Thank you. BoB G.
        >
      • Dave Gentry
        paulthober wrote: Generally monohulls are deemed to be more appropriate for passage-making, particularly in the smaller sizes - a 29 foot
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 5, 2009
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          "paulthober" <paulthober@...> wrote:
          "Generally monohulls are deemed to be more appropriate for
          passage-making, particularly in the smaller sizes - a 29 foot trimaran
          is considered small. Small multihulls are considered more likely to
          suffer an irreversible catastrophe - a capsized monohull will in all
          likelyhood right itself, a multihull, not so much."

          Really . . . that is merely an opinion held by some, but definitely not
          by others! Here's a statement of opinion that is equally as valid:

          "Generally, monohulls are less well suited for passage making, and
          monohulls of all sizes are considered to be much more likely to suffer
          irreversible catastrophe (i.e. sinking) than multihulls."

          The mono v multi debate has been going on for a good century now, and
          there are arguments for each side, but the fact is that many, many safe
          transoceanic passages have been made in multis. "Small" ones, too.

          And a theoretical AS 29 trimaran wouldn't be any smaller than an AS 29
          monohull, would it?

          -----

          For some entertaining and factual accounts about the subject, everyone
          should read the late Thomas Firth Jones' book "Multihull Voyaging."

          TFJ was a great friend of Phil Bolger, btw, and wrote the best bio of
          him that I've ever come across. One can find it in the back of TFJ's
          book "New Plywood Boats."

          -------

          Bob G: As for converting your AS 29 to a trimaran, perhaps you should
          consult a naval architect instead of us random web warriors!

          I think it's an intriguing idea, but likely fraught with engineering
          difficulties.

          Good luck, in any case!

          Dave Gentry



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • graeme19121984
          ... everyone ... Affirmative ... of ... Notably he and Carol also great friends of SA. And upon TFJ s passing Ruth Wharram wrote of their longstanding
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 6, 2009
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Gentry" <alias1719@...> wrote:

            > For some entertaining and factual accounts about the subject,
            everyone
            > should read the late Thomas Firth Jones' book "Multihull Voyaging."

            Affirmative


            > TFJ was a great friend of Phil Bolger, btw, and wrote the best bio
            of
            > him that I've ever come across. One can find it in the back of TFJ's
            > book "New Plywood Boats."

            Notably he and Carol also great friends of SA. And upon TFJ's passing
            Ruth Wharram wrote of their longstanding friendship also. Man, would
            I have liked to have been a fly on the wall and heard some of those
            conversations! TFJ and Carol's epic hurricane survival at sea aboard
            their "Two Rabbits", a small modified Wharram, has passed well into
            multi folklore and TFJ is cited more than once in the JW literature.

            Graeme
          • graeme19121984
            A month or three ago this topic came up over at multihull_boatbuilder http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multihull_boatbuilder/ May I suggest you ask the very
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 6, 2009
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              A month or three ago this topic came up over at multihull_boatbuilder
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multihull_boatbuilder/ May I suggest you
              ask the very knowledgeable people over there? I can't say how the
              square boat thing may play out there.

              Regarding the conversion: as I recall the consensus was that it may
              work quite well - talking of acceptable cruising multis here, not world
              beaters. Boats considered were a few production plastics of about the
              cruiser/racer class. Moreover there are actual examples that continue
              to please their owners. Not sure how AS29 would suit, even though the
              numbers suggest it may.

              Graeme

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
              >
              > We're considering a trimaran conversion of our ASharpie. We're
              > contemplating a relocation from Alaska to Panama, downwind most of the
              > way, and wonder if it would increase stability and good ride as well
              > as virtually sinkproof the boat. With a potential cutwater on the bow
              > added. Our current rig is schooner chinese lugsail. It would go to
              > windward not worth a darn but has a engine. Any opinions would be
              > most appreciated. Thank you. BoB G.
              >
            • goadarama
              Thanks for the great feedback about our possible conversion. The basic premise was a off-the-wind modification with a good outboard otherwise. The current junk
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 14, 2009
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                Thanks for the great feedback about our possible conversion. The basic
                premise was a off-the-wind modification with a good outboard
                otherwise. The current junk schooner rig is very inefficient to
                windward anyway. I,m spending periods aboard gazing, measuring, and
                what-iffing. Again, much thanks for the feedback. BoB G.


                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > A month or three ago this topic came up over at multihull_boatbuilder
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multihull_boatbuilder/ May I suggest you
                > ask the very knowledgeable people over there? I can't say how the
                > square boat thing may play out there.
                >
                > Regarding the conversion: as I recall the consensus was that it may
                > work quite well - talking of acceptable cruising multis here, not world
                > beaters. Boats considered were a few production plastics of about the
                > cruiser/racer class. Moreover there are actual examples that continue
                > to please their owners. Not sure how AS29 would suit, even though the
                > numbers suggest it may.
                >
                > Graeme
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@> wrote:
                > >
                > > We're considering a trimaran conversion of our ASharpie. We're
                > > contemplating a relocation from Alaska to Panama, downwind most of the
                > > way, and wonder if it would increase stability and good ride as well
                > > as virtually sinkproof the boat. With a potential cutwater on the bow
                > > added. Our current rig is schooner chinese lugsail. It would go to
                > > windward not worth a darn but has a engine. Any opinions would be
                > > most appreciated. Thank you. BoB G.
                > >
                >
              • graeme19121984
                Not in the same league, but take a look at pics 6 & 7 here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1326651490/pic/list Briefly, some useful speed
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 15, 2009
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                  Not in the same league, but take a look at pics 6 & 7 here
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1326651490/pic/list
                  Briefly, some useful speed gained from the increased ability to stand
                  up to sail, but not much as the centre hull speed is still limiting.
                  It is more relaxed to sail than the mono, and that with a big load,
                  just watch out for the original mono mast and reef earlier than the
                  mono. It is a much nicer platform to cruise and stay on due to the
                  extra stability. Some side-decks might be handy for more living
                  space. Crew can step dryfooted to the shore-side ama, and thence to
                  the shore.
                  Cheers
                  Graeme


                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks for the great feedback about our possible conversion. The
                  basic
                  > premise was a off-the-wind modification with a good outboard
                  > otherwise. The current junk schooner rig is very inefficient to
                  > windward anyway. I,m spending periods aboard gazing, measuring, and
                  > what-iffing. Again, much thanks for the feedback. BoB G.
                • loosemoosefilmworks
                  I hate to rain on the parade but the AS 29 would be possibly the worst choice of Bolger s many designs to morph into a Multihull. What makes a sharpie work
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 15, 2009
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                    I hate to rain on the parade but the AS 29 would be possibly the worst
                    choice of Bolger's many designs to morph into a Multihull.

                    What makes a sharpie work with its big flat bottom is that since
                    monohulls heel the chine is the area of first water/boat interface.
                    Everyone assumed that Loose Moose 2 pounded ( it did not) because of
                    its flat bottom but that little bit of heel made all the difference.
                    Adding a couple of AMAs to the mix and calling it a trimaran would
                    have created a tooth jarring ride.

                    I've delivered a lot of boats over the years aincluding several large
                    charter cats from South Africa to the Caribean and one thing I have
                    learned about multihulls is that if they do not have a bridgedeck
                    clearance of at least three feet the ride becomes seriously
                    uncomfortable. The idea of sailing five hundred miles with a AS bottom
                    pounding is just not a fun thought.

                    Take a look at a couple of designers who do excellent Trimarans..Kurt
                    Hughes and Dick Newick and the fine entries to the water..as they say
                    a picture is worth a thousand words.

                    The other problem with trimarans is that to work they are not good on
                    load carrying and to have a trimaran with the load carrying ability
                    and interior space of an AS29 you would be looking at a 40 -50 foot
                    tri. For Loose Moose 3 we considered several multihulls and to get the
                    load carrying and interior space of the old Loose Moose 2 we were
                    considering fifty and sixty foot cats and they are much better at
                    loading than trimarans...Just for the record the new LooseMose is
                    going to be a 38 foot sharpie.

                    Bob
                    http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
                  • graeme19121984
                    Bob, the mono sharpie AS-29 reportedly heels easily to about 15degrees then firms up. Trimarans heel. Tris don t heel near as much as monos generally do
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 15, 2009
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                      Bob,

                      the mono sharpie AS-29 reportedly heels easily to about 15degrees
                      then firms up. Trimarans heel. Tris don't heel near as much as monos
                      generally do though, but the AS-29 15+degrees heel angle is about in
                      the middle of their spectrum. That puts an AS-29 trimaran conversion
                      in the mono AS sweet spot. It's catamarans that only heel about
                      5degrees...

                      Yes, conventional tris are extremely weight sensitive - just like
                      high performance racing dinghies really. However, this isn't about
                      world beating speed performance, or even low end multi speed; that's
                      just not possible. Rather this is about achieving consistently good
                      mono speeds, and possibly the 80% to 90% of other additional
                      multihull benefits remaining.

                      A bigger mono could be built/purchased to increase living space,
                      stability, motion comfort and so on, but at much more cost all round
                      than adding suitable amas to a suitable existing mono hull. That AS-
                      29 is optimised for sailing at a slight heel, and has performance
                      already classed as that of cruiser/racer suggests, sans ballast etc,
                      it may be worth a closer look.


                      Graeme

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "loosemoosefilmworks"
                      <loosemoosefilmworks@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I hate to rain on the parade but the AS 29 would be possibly the
                      worst
                      > choice of Bolger's many designs to morph into a Multihull.
                      >
                      > What makes a sharpie work with its big flat bottom is that since
                      > monohulls heel the chine is the area of first water/boat interface.
                      > Everyone assumed that Loose Moose 2 pounded ( it did not) because of
                      > its flat bottom but that little bit of heel made all the difference.
                      > Adding a couple of AMAs to the mix and calling it a trimaran would
                      > have created a tooth jarring ride.
                      >
                      > I've delivered a lot of boats over the years aincluding several
                      large
                      > charter cats from South Africa to the Caribean and one thing I have
                      > learned about multihulls is that if they do not have a bridgedeck
                      > clearance of at least three feet the ride becomes seriously
                      > uncomfortable. The idea of sailing five hundred miles with a AS
                      bottom
                      > pounding is just not a fun thought.
                      >
                      > Take a look at a couple of designers who do excellent
                      Trimarans..Kurt
                      > Hughes and Dick Newick and the fine entries to the water..as they
                      say
                      > a picture is worth a thousand words.
                      >
                      > The other problem with trimarans is that to work they are not good
                      on
                      > load carrying and to have a trimaran with the load carrying ability
                      > and interior space of an AS29 you would be looking at a 40 -50 foot
                      > tri. For Loose Moose 3 we considered several multihulls and to get
                      the
                      > load carrying and interior space of the old Loose Moose 2 we were
                      > considering fifty and sixty foot cats and they are much better at
                      > loading than trimarans...Just for the record the new LooseMose is
                      > going to be a 38 foot sharpie.
                      >
                      > Bob
                      > http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
                      >
                    • goadarama
                      The 15 degree heeling is accurate for this sharpie and most trimarans..... indeed.... a heeling sweet spot. The pounding might be reduced by a cutwater of
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 15, 2009
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                        The 15 degree heeling is accurate for this sharpie and most
                        trimarans..... indeed.... a heeling sweet spot. The pounding might be
                        reduced by a cutwater of sorts but it might not be needed. I figure
                        the unshrouded masts (chinese lugsails) might be now shrouded out to
                        the floats much as the naval architect Thomas Colvin did on his junk
                        rigs (and most chinese junks actually do). Thanks for the feedback. I
                        agree the increased stability would be nice plus a bit more sink
                        proofing. My aim is not perpetual world cruising but a limited, down
                        wind relocation to warmer climes that Alaska. Best wishes from
                        latitude 57. Still a potentially rough ride occasionally down the pac
                        coast. BoB G.

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Bob,
                        >
                        > the mono sharpie AS-29 reportedly heels easily to about 15degrees
                        > then firms up. Trimarans heel. Tris don't heel near as much as monos
                        > generally do though, but the AS-29 15+degrees heel angle is about in
                        > the middle of their spectrum. That puts an AS-29 trimaran conversion
                        > in the mono AS sweet spot. It's catamarans that only heel about
                        > 5degrees...
                        >
                        > Yes, conventional tris are extremely weight sensitive - just like
                        > high performance racing dinghies really. However, this isn't about
                        > world beating speed performance, or even low end multi speed; that's
                        > just not possible. Rather this is about achieving consistently good
                        > mono speeds, and possibly the 80% to 90% of other additional
                        > multihull benefits remaining.
                        >
                        > A bigger mono could be built/purchased to increase living space,
                        > stability, motion comfort and so on, but at much more cost all round
                        > than adding suitable amas to a suitable existing mono hull. That AS-
                        > 29 is optimised for sailing at a slight heel, and has performance
                        > already classed as that of cruiser/racer suggests, sans ballast etc,
                        > it may be worth a closer look.
                        >
                        >
                        > Graeme
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "loosemoosefilmworks"
                        > <loosemoosefilmworks@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I hate to rain on the parade but the AS 29 would be possibly the
                        > worst
                        > > choice of Bolger's many designs to morph into a Multihull.
                        > >
                        > > What makes a sharpie work with its big flat bottom is that since
                        > > monohulls heel the chine is the area of first water/boat interface.
                        > > Everyone assumed that Loose Moose 2 pounded ( it did not) because of
                        > > its flat bottom but that little bit of heel made all the difference.
                        > > Adding a couple of AMAs to the mix and calling it a trimaran would
                        > > have created a tooth jarring ride.
                        > >
                        > > I've delivered a lot of boats over the years aincluding several
                        > large
                        > > charter cats from South Africa to the Caribean and one thing I have
                        > > learned about multihulls is that if they do not have a bridgedeck
                        > > clearance of at least three feet the ride becomes seriously
                        > > uncomfortable. The idea of sailing five hundred miles with a AS
                        > bottom
                        > > pounding is just not a fun thought.
                        > >
                        > > Take a look at a couple of designers who do excellent
                        > Trimarans..Kurt
                        > > Hughes and Dick Newick and the fine entries to the water..as they
                        > say
                        > > a picture is worth a thousand words.
                        > >
                        > > The other problem with trimarans is that to work they are not good
                        > on
                        > > load carrying and to have a trimaran with the load carrying ability
                        > > and interior space of an AS29 you would be looking at a 40 -50 foot
                        > > tri. For Loose Moose 3 we considered several multihulls and to get
                        > the
                        > > load carrying and interior space of the old Loose Moose 2 we were
                        > > considering fifty and sixty foot cats and they are much better at
                        > > loading than trimarans...Just for the record the new LooseMose is
                        > > going to be a 38 foot sharpie.
                        > >
                        > > Bob
                        > > http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
                        > >
                        >
                      • Harry James
                        When this first popped up I kept my mouth shut, even though I winced. I noticed that nobody has suggested asking Bolger s opinion. I would expect a horrified
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 15, 2009
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                          When this first popped up I kept my mouth shut, even though I winced. I
                          noticed that nobody has suggested asking Bolger's opinion. I would
                          expect a horrified response. The AS 29 is not a trimaran and to make it
                          into one would be straying very far afield from the designers goals.

                          I believe you said you are in Sitka? You might ask Dave Zeiger his
                          opinion as his Luna is based on the AS 29.

                          HJ

                          goadarama wrote:
                          > The 15 degree heeling is accurate for this sharpie and most
                          > trimarans..... indeed.... a heeling sweet spot. The pounding might be
                          > reduced by a cutwater of sorts but it might not be needed. I figure
                          > the unshrouded masts (chinese lugsails) might be now shrouded out to
                          > the floats much as the naval architect Thomas Colvin did on his junk
                          > rigs (and most chinese junks actually do). Thanks for the feedback. I
                          > agree the increased stability would be nice plus a bit more sink
                          > proofing. My aim is not perpetual world cruising but a limited, down
                          > wind relocation to warmer climes that Alaska. Best wishes from
                          > latitude 57. Still a potentially rough ride occasionally down the pac
                          > coast. BoB G.
                          >
                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          >> Bob,
                          >>
                          >> the mono sharpie AS-29 reportedly heels easily to about 15degrees
                          >> then firms up. Trimarans heel. Tris don't heel near as much as monos
                          >> generally do though, but the AS-29 15+degrees heel angle is about in
                          >> the middle of their spectrum. That puts an AS-29 trimaran conversion
                          >> in the mono AS sweet spot. It's catamarans that only heel about
                          >> 5degrees...
                          >>
                          >> Yes, conventional tris are extremely weight sensitive - just like
                          >> high performance racing dinghies really. However, this isn't about
                          >> world beating speed performance, or even low end multi speed; that's
                          >> just not possible. Rather this is about achieving consistently good
                          >> mono speeds, and possibly the 80% to 90% of other additional
                          >> multihull benefits remaining.
                          >>
                          >> A bigger mono could be built/purchased to increase living space,
                          >> stability, motion comfort and so on, but at much more cost all round
                          >> than adding suitable amas to a suitable existing mono hull. That AS-
                          >> 29 is optimised for sailing at a slight heel, and has performance
                          >> already classed as that of cruiser/racer suggests, sans ballast etc,
                          >> it may be worth a closer look.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Graeme
                          >>
                          >> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "loosemoosefilmworks"
                          >> <loosemoosefilmworks@> wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> I hate to rain on the parade but the AS 29 would be possibly the
                          >>>
                          >> worst
                          >>
                          >>> choice of Bolger's many designs to morph into a Multihull.
                          >>>
                          >>> What makes a sharpie work with its big flat bottom is that since
                          >>> monohulls heel the chine is the area of first water/boat interface.
                          >>> Everyone assumed that Loose Moose 2 pounded ( it did not) because of
                          >>> its flat bottom but that little bit of heel made all the difference.
                          >>> Adding a couple of AMAs to the mix and calling it a trimaran would
                          >>> have created a tooth jarring ride.
                          >>>
                          >>> I've delivered a lot of boats over the years aincluding several
                          >>>
                          >> large
                          >>
                          >>> charter cats from South Africa to the Caribean and one thing I have
                          >>> learned about multihulls is that if they do not have a bridgedeck
                          >>> clearance of at least three feet the ride becomes seriously
                          >>> uncomfortable. The idea of sailing five hundred miles with a AS
                          >>>
                          >> bottom
                          >>
                          >>> pounding is just not a fun thought.
                          >>>
                          >>> Take a look at a couple of designers who do excellent
                          >>>
                          >> Trimarans..Kurt
                          >>
                          >>> Hughes and Dick Newick and the fine entries to the water..as they
                          >>>
                          >> say
                          >>
                          >>> a picture is worth a thousand words.
                          >>>
                          >>> The other problem with trimarans is that to work they are not good
                          >>>
                          >> on
                          >>
                          >>> load carrying and to have a trimaran with the load carrying ability
                          >>> and interior space of an AS29 you would be looking at a 40 -50 foot
                          >>> tri. For Loose Moose 3 we considered several multihulls and to get
                          >>>
                          >> the
                          >>
                          >>> load carrying and interior space of the old Loose Moose 2 we were
                          >>> considering fifty and sixty foot cats and they are much better at
                          >>> loading than trimarans...Just for the record the new LooseMose is
                          >>> going to be a 38 foot sharpie.
                          >>>
                          >>> Bob
                          >>> http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • goadarama
                          The Luna is now our boat. Dave s a real out-of-the-box thinker and brilliant in many ways.
                          Message 12 of 14 , Feb 16, 2009
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                            The Luna is now our boat. Dave's a real out-of-the-box thinker and
                            brilliant in many ways.

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > When this first popped up I kept my mouth shut, even though I winced. I
                            > noticed that nobody has suggested asking Bolger's opinion. I would
                            > expect a horrified response. The AS 29 is not a trimaran and to make it
                            > into one would be straying very far afield from the designers goals.
                            >
                            > I believe you said you are in Sitka? You might ask Dave Zeiger his
                            > opinion as his Luna is based on the AS 29.
                            >
                            > HJ
                            >
                            > goadarama wrote:
                            > > The 15 degree heeling is accurate for this sharpie and most
                            > > trimarans..... indeed.... a heeling sweet spot. The pounding might be
                            > > reduced by a cutwater of sorts but it might not be needed. I figure
                            > > the unshrouded masts (chinese lugsails) might be now shrouded out to
                            > > the floats much as the naval architect Thomas Colvin did on his junk
                            > > rigs (and most chinese junks actually do). Thanks for the feedback. I
                            > > agree the increased stability would be nice plus a bit more sink
                            > > proofing. My aim is not perpetual world cruising but a limited, down
                            > > wind relocation to warmer climes that Alaska. Best wishes from
                            > > latitude 57. Still a potentially rough ride occasionally down the pac
                            > > coast. BoB G.
                            > >
                            > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
                            > > wrote:
                            > >
                            > >> Bob,
                            > >>
                            > >> the mono sharpie AS-29 reportedly heels easily to about 15degrees
                            > >> then firms up. Trimarans heel. Tris don't heel near as much as monos
                            > >> generally do though, but the AS-29 15+degrees heel angle is about in
                            > >> the middle of their spectrum. That puts an AS-29 trimaran conversion
                            > >> in the mono AS sweet spot. It's catamarans that only heel about
                            > >> 5degrees...
                            > >>
                            > >> Yes, conventional tris are extremely weight sensitive - just like
                            > >> high performance racing dinghies really. However, this isn't about
                            > >> world beating speed performance, or even low end multi speed; that's
                            > >> just not possible. Rather this is about achieving consistently good
                            > >> mono speeds, and possibly the 80% to 90% of other additional
                            > >> multihull benefits remaining.
                            > >>
                            > >> A bigger mono could be built/purchased to increase living space,
                            > >> stability, motion comfort and so on, but at much more cost all round
                            > >> than adding suitable amas to a suitable existing mono hull. That AS-
                            > >> 29 is optimised for sailing at a slight heel, and has performance
                            > >> already classed as that of cruiser/racer suggests, sans ballast etc,
                            > >> it may be worth a closer look.
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> Graeme
                            > >>
                            > >> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "loosemoosefilmworks"
                            > >> <loosemoosefilmworks@> wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >>> I hate to rain on the parade but the AS 29 would be possibly the
                            > >>>
                            > >> worst
                            > >>
                            > >>> choice of Bolger's many designs to morph into a Multihull.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> What makes a sharpie work with its big flat bottom is that since
                            > >>> monohulls heel the chine is the area of first water/boat interface.
                            > >>> Everyone assumed that Loose Moose 2 pounded ( it did not) because of
                            > >>> its flat bottom but that little bit of heel made all the difference.
                            > >>> Adding a couple of AMAs to the mix and calling it a trimaran would
                            > >>> have created a tooth jarring ride.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> I've delivered a lot of boats over the years aincluding several
                            > >>>
                            > >> large
                            > >>
                            > >>> charter cats from South Africa to the Caribean and one thing I have
                            > >>> learned about multihulls is that if they do not have a bridgedeck
                            > >>> clearance of at least three feet the ride becomes seriously
                            > >>> uncomfortable. The idea of sailing five hundred miles with a AS
                            > >>>
                            > >> bottom
                            > >>
                            > >>> pounding is just not a fun thought.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Take a look at a couple of designers who do excellent
                            > >>>
                            > >> Trimarans..Kurt
                            > >>
                            > >>> Hughes and Dick Newick and the fine entries to the water..as they
                            > >>>
                            > >> say
                            > >>
                            > >>> a picture is worth a thousand words.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> The other problem with trimarans is that to work they are not good
                            > >>>
                            > >> on
                            > >>
                            > >>> load carrying and to have a trimaran with the load carrying ability
                            > >>> and interior space of an AS29 you would be looking at a 40 -50 foot
                            > >>> tri. For Loose Moose 3 we considered several multihulls and to get
                            > >>>
                            > >> the
                            > >>
                            > >>> load carrying and interior space of the old Loose Moose 2 we were
                            > >>> considering fifty and sixty foot cats and they are much better at
                            > >>> loading than trimarans...Just for the record the new LooseMose is
                            > >>> going to be a 38 foot sharpie.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Bob
                            > >>> http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
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