Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [bolger] Re: Small boat vs. small boat

Expand Messages
  • Bruce Hallman
    I have built one Teal and two Tortoises. They are about equally easy to build, but the pointy ends of the Teal add to the weight, making it that much harder
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 1, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      I have built one Teal and two Tortoises. They are about equally easy
      to build, but the pointy ends of the Teal add to the weight, making it
      that much harder to lift on top of a automobile. The Tortoise is
      nearly an ideal choice, except that some people think it doesn't look
      like a boat should look. Tortoise carries two adults easily when
      rowing, (or one adult and two kids). It also is heck of a lot of fun
      to sail. I haven't tried sailing with a passenger, it would be tight.
      With my second Tortoise I paid special attention to keeping the
      weight light, and I am really happy with how easy it is to carry
      partially due to the light weight but also due to the compact shape.
      I suspect that Nymph and Elegant Punt both have similar advantages,
      except that their curvy shaped bilge panels mean less load carrying
      capacity compared with the Tortoise.
    • Jamie Orr
      I built an Elegant Punt for/with my eight year old son because it didn t need epoxy or glass, which meant he could safely help. It turned out to be a great
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 1, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        I built an Elegant Punt for/with my eight year old son because it
        didn't need epoxy or glass, which meant he could safely help. It
        turned out to be a great little boat, it carried the whole family
        (four of us) while the kids were small (about ages 9 and 12) and it's
        still in use 12 years later, protected only by oil paint over the fir
        ply. It sails well enough with the standard instant boat rig, over-
        the-side daggerboard and all.

        Jamie

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ladycathyofwales"
        <catherine.james@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Looking at the smallest Bolger boats, I'm trying to determine the
        > tradeoffs between Tortoise, Elegant Punt, and perhaps Teal. All 3
        > seem to be simple one-man boats, with Teal a little harder to build
        > but probably a better sailor. Are all 3 realistically car-toppable?
        >
        > Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer
        that
        > has gotten so much attention?
        >
        > Cathy
        >
      • ladycathyofwales
        Bruce, having built both the Teal and Tortoise, what would you say are the advantages of the Teal, other than appearance? Does it sail better upwind? Cathy
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 1, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Bruce, having built both the Teal and Tortoise, what would you say are
          the advantages of the Teal, other than appearance? Does it sail
          better upwind?

          Cathy

          Bruce Hallman wrote:
          > I have built one Teal and two Tortoises. They are about equally easy
          > to build...
        • Harry James
          I have built a couple of Elegant punts and I can easily carry it on my back and would have no problem getting it up on a car. I am 64 with a back that is 5
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 1, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I have built a couple of Elegant punts and I can easily carry it on my
            back and would have no problem getting it up on a car. I am 64 with a
            back that is 5 years older.



            HJ

            ladycathyofwales wrote:
            > Looking at the smallest Bolger boats, I'm trying to determine the
            > tradeoffs between Tortoise, Elegant Punt, and perhaps Teal. All 3
            > seem to be simple one-man boats, with Teal a little harder to build
            > but probably a better sailor. Are all 3 realistically car-toppable?
            >
            > Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer that
            > has gotten so much attention?
            >
            > Cathy
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Bolger rules!!!
            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • John Kohnen
            I ve found that, if two boats are about the same weight, the longer boat will be easier to get on top of a car. But I use tubular racks and stick a piece of
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I've found that, if two boats are about the same weight, the longer boat
              will be easier to get on top of a car. But I use tubular racks and stick a
              piece of pipe out the end of one of them, then lift one end of the boat up
              on the pipe, then lift the other end of the boat up and put it on the
              other rack... Harder to do with a stubby boat.

              On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:04:36 -0800, Bruce H wrote:

              > I have built one Teal and two Tortoises. They are about equally easy
              > to build, but the pointy ends of the Teal add to the weight, making it
              > that much harder to lift on top of a automobile....

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              After all, all he did was string together a lot of old, well-
              known quotations. <H. L. Mencken on Shakespeare>
            • David C.
              I built an Elegant Punt several years ago to act as the tender to a Catalina 22. Nice boat. I always got compliments at the dinghy dock. I, too , would put two
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                I built an Elegant Punt several years ago to act as the tender to a Catalina 22. Nice boat. I always got compliments at the dinghy dock. I, too , would put two adults and two small kids in it (plus a couple of bags of stuff -- food, towels -- gas can) for rowing out to the mooring.

                I built exactly to the plans/specs, with the bottom covered in fiberglass. I could lift it into the bed of a pickup, or maybe even carry it a few feet hanging off my shoulder, but I would have had trouble putting it on the roof of a car by myself (It's not long enough to lift one end at a time as high as a car roof). With two people, it would be easy.

                I've never built the other two, but I have the plans and have studied them. I don't think any of these would be more or less difficult to build than the others. They're all pretty simple and about the same procedure -- cut out the sides -- join them with the stem/transom; put in the chines and gunwales; measure and install the bottom; finish the interior and the sailing bits; paint.

                DavidC

                ---- Jamie Orr <jas_orr@...> wrote:
                > I built an Elegant Punt for/with my eight year old son because it
                > didn't need epoxy or glass, which meant he could safely help. It
                > turned out to be a great little boat, it carried the whole family
                > (four of us) while the kids were small (about ages 9 and 12) and it's
                > still in use 12 years later, protected only by oil paint over the fir
                > ply. It sails well enough with the standard instant boat rig, over-
                > the-side daggerboard and all.
                >
                > Jamie
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ladycathyofwales"
                > <catherine.james@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Looking at the smallest Bolger boats, I'm trying to determine the
                > > tradeoffs between Tortoise, Elegant Punt, and perhaps Teal. All 3
                > > seem to be simple one-man boats, with Teal a little harder to build
                > > but probably a better sailor. Are all 3 realistically car-toppable?
                > >
                > > Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer
                > that
                > > has gotten so much attention?
                > >
                > > Cathy
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Bruce Hallman
                On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:18 PM, ladycathyofwales ... Sailing better is such a subjective concept. The Teal is probably faster, but faster isn t better
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:18 PM, ladycathyofwales
                  <catherine.james@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Bruce, having built both the Teal and Tortoise, what would you say are
                  > the advantages of the Teal, other than appearance? Does it sail
                  > better upwind?
                  >
                  > Cathy

                  Sailing 'better' is such a subjective concept. The Teal is probably
                  faster, but faster isn't better unless the purpose is racing, or
                  transportation getting somewhere quick. In my case, the purpose is
                  sailing lazy circles around the cove on a summer day. For that
                  purpose, the Tortoise was the better boat. It 'feels' plenty fast
                  when you sail it, and it is easy to haul to the lake and launch. I
                  chopped up my first too heavy Tortoise. I gave away the Teal and still
                  love my second (lighter weight) Tortoise.
                • Jim Michaels
                  Anybody thought about a Junebug?   I ve seen some beautiful Junebugs and they are very versitile (can be rowed, paddled or sailed).   I plan to build one
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Anybody thought about a Junebug?   I've seen some beautiful Junebugs and they are very versitile (can be rowed, paddled or sailed).   I plan to build one next year, starting Jan 1, 2010 (I made a pledge to the family that I would take a year off of boat building).

                    Jim in St. Louis

                    --- On Mon, 2/2/09, David C. <d.cassidy@...> wrote:
                    From: David C. <d.cassidy@...>
                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Small boat vs. small boat
                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 8:20 AM











                    I built an Elegant Punt several years ago to act as the tender to a Catalina 22. Nice boat. I always got compliments at the dinghy dock. I, too , would put two adults and two small kids in it (plus a couple of bags of stuff -- food, towels -- gas can) for rowing out to the mooring.



                    I built exactly to the plans/specs, with the bottom covered in fiberglass. I could lift it into the bed of a pickup, or maybe even carry it a few feet hanging off my shoulder, but I would have had trouble putting it on the roof of a car by myself (It's not long enough to lift one end at a time as high as a car roof). With two people, it would be easy.



                    I've never built the other two, but I have the plans and have studied them. I don't think any of these would be more or less difficult to build than the others. They're all pretty simple and about the same procedure -- cut out the sides -- join them with the stem/transom; put in the chines and gunwales; measure and install the bottom; finish the interior and the sailing bits; paint.



                    DavidC



                    ---- Jamie Orr <jas_orr@yahoo. com> wrote:

                    > I built an Elegant Punt for/with my eight year old son because it

                    > didn't need epoxy or glass, which meant he could safely help. It

                    > turned out to be a great little boat, it carried the whole family

                    > (four of us) while the kids were small (about ages 9 and 12) and it's

                    > still in use 12 years later, protected only by oil paint over the fir

                    > ply. It sails well enough with the standard instant boat rig, over-

                    > the-side daggerboard and all.

                    >

                    > Jamie

                    >

                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "ladycathyofwales"

                    > <catherine.james@ ...> wrote:

                    > >

                    > >

                    > > Looking at the smallest Bolger boats, I'm trying to determine the

                    > > tradeoffs between Tortoise, Elegant Punt, and perhaps Teal. All 3

                    > > seem to be simple one-man boats, with Teal a little harder to build

                    > > but probably a better sailor. Are all 3 realistically car-toppable?

                    > >

                    > > Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer

                    > that

                    > > has gotten so much attention?

                    > >

                    > > Cathy

                    > >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > ------------ --------- --------- ------

                    >

                    > Bolger rules!!!

                    > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!

                    > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses

                    > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts

                    > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away

                    > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349

                    > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com

                    > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_ lounge-subscribe @yahoogroups. com Yahoo! Groups Links

                    >

                    >

                    >



























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Myles J. Swift
                    Jim Michaels asks Anybody thought about a Junebug? I ve seen some beautiful Junebugs and they are very versitile (can be rowed, paddled or sailed). I love
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Jim Michaels asks "Anybody thought about a Junebug? I've seen some beautiful Junebugs and they are very versitile (can be rowed, paddled or sailed)."

                      I love my June Bug. If the wind is up I can stay with the Lasers. Rowing in the early calm is nice. I set up both rowing positions and we do that for exercise when we are at our cabin. Sailing with two adults is do-able but not quick. Rowing is good with one, two or three aboard.

                      I'd not put JuneBug at the top of the listed of car toppers. 20 year ago I would have been able to do that easily, not so much now. A June Bug trailer can be very minimal. Mine is a sprung axle kit welded to an old bed frame. Somebody else made it years ago but it work great and is June Bug is very quick to launch and retrieve.

                      We've lifted June Bug over the rocks at a local messabout. It is easy for 3, work for 2, and I wouldn't try it alone.

                      MylesJ

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • ladycathyofwales
                      Even without racing, faster can be better. If you are sailing upstream against a current, or in tidal waters against the tide, even 1 kt extra matters.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Even without racing, faster can be better. If you are sailing
                        upstream against a current, or in tidal waters against the tide, even
                        1 kt extra matters. Likewise, ability to sail closer to the wind can
                        save you quite a bit of time when it's time to return to the dock.

                        That said, after reviewing various comments on the Net about the
                        Teal, I've concluded that it's too unstable to trust in anything
                        close to open water (e.g., gunkholing in Massachusetts bays). Looks
                        like a fun boat for inland lakes.

                        Cathy

                        > Cathy wrote:
                        >> Bruce, having built both the Teal and Tortoise, what would
                        >> you say are the advantages of the Teal, other than appearance?
                        >> Does it sail better upwind?

                        Bruce replied:
                        > Sailing 'better' is such a subjective concept. The Teal is probably
                        > faster, but faster isn't better unless the purpose is racing, or
                        > transportation getting somewhere quick.
                      • Bruce Hallman
                        ... I took my Teal out in San Francisco Bay, (Raccoon Strait), and have beach launched and sailed it coastal in the Pacific Ocean too. Paying close attention
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > That said, after reviewing various comments on the Net about the
                          > Teal, I've concluded that it's too unstable to trust in anything
                          > close to open water (e.g., gunkholing in Massachusetts bays). Looks
                          > like a fun boat for inland lakes.
                          >
                          > Cathy

                          I took my Teal out in San Francisco Bay, (Raccoon Strait), and have
                          beach launched and sailed it coastal in the Pacific Ocean too. Paying
                          close attention to current and weather forecast of course! Perhaps I
                          should have been more worried, but I didn't feel I was taking
                          excessive risk.
                        • Jim Michaels
                          Cathy: In response to the following: Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer that ... My sons (age 10 & ll)  and I built a PD Racer
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 2, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Cathy:

                            In response to the following:

                            Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer that

                            > has gotten so much attention?


                            My sons (age 10 & ll)  and I built a PD Racer last summer and had a blast!

                            It is log and chine construction, we used no epoxy - only Titebond II and PL Premium construction cement.  We painted it with latex enamel paint and made a polytarp sail (the Bolger 59 Leg 'O Muttom rig).  It sails great, weighs 90lbs. (car-toppable on our Volvo) and seats me and my 2 kids comfortably.  It is very stable.  The cost was under $200.00  The PD Racer is a variation of the Bolger Brick - Shorty Routh, founder of the PD Racer group, built a Brick, then fiddled with the hull rocker.   The PD Racer is an easy to build, inexpensive and fun entry level sailboat.   I am really glad I built it as my first sailboat because it was so easy, yet I learned a lot about boat building.

                            Anyway, the PD Racer Website details the birth of the PD Racer in 2003.  Nearly  300 of these boats have actually been built, and there are many variations.   I think most of the builders, though somewhat dubious initally, have been thrilled by the fun of sailing the finished product.   I believe the reason we are hitting 300 owes to the ease of the build, the strength of support within the PD Racer Community, and the fun of the finished boat.

                            Personally, I am ready to "move up" from that build -  Basically, I want to build a sharpie now that I've built a scow.   That is why I am setting my sights on the Junebug.  

                            I know the PD Racer is not in name a Bolger Design, but It is a variation on the Brick - and with the Bolger 59 Leg 'O Muttom rig, it has a lot of Bolger in it (I love that rig). 

                            Good Luck!

                            Jim in St. Louis


                            --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                            From: Harry James <welshman@...>
                            Subject: Re: [bolger] Small boat vs. small boat
                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 11:42 PM











                            I have built a couple of Elegant punts and I can easily carry it on my

                            back and would have no problem getting it up on a car. I am 64 with a

                            back that is 5 years older.



                            HJ



                            ladycathyofwales wrote:

                            > Looking at the smallest Bolger boats, I'm trying to determine the

                            > tradeoffs between Tortoise, Elegant Punt, and perhaps Teal. All 3

                            > seem to be simple one-man boats, with Teal a little harder to build

                            > but probably a better sailor. Are all 3 realistically car-toppable?

                            >

                            > Likewise, what are the tradeoffs between a Brick and the PDRacer that

                            > has gotten so much attention?

                            >

                            > Cathy

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > ------------ --------- --------- ------

                            >

                            > Bolger rules!!!

                            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!

                            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses

                            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts

                            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away

                            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349

                            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com

                            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_ lounge-subscribe @yahoogroups. com Yahoo! Groups Links

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >



























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • graeme19121984
                            There s Bolger s Big Tortoise (Payson calls it a Brick too). Little extra weight than Tortoise, same pile of materials, for a longer waterline. [ Hey gang,
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 3, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              There's Bolger's Big Tortoise (Payson calls it a Brick too). Little
                              extra weight than Tortoise, same pile of materials, for a longer
                              waterline.

                              [ Hey gang, what is the design number for this one? It is not on the
                              group database, and Dynamite doesn't include it in his study plans
                              packet (yet it is in there on the price sheet). I've heard tell that
                              it is actually a plan of Dynamite's own doing to compete with the
                              Brick as once offered by Bernie Wolfard, but Dynamite wouldn't mess
                              with PCB's name... eg. it is clearly marked as a "Phillip C Bolger"
                              plan, but I can't make out the number at the Instant Boats site:
                              http://www.instantboats.com/brick.htm ]

                              Another small easily cartopped boat (the brief was for a pair of
                              toppers), and well recommended by PCB, is the Peero. If thought too
                              unstable, add stability like Gregg did:

                              http://www.carlsondesign.com/projects.html#Pirogue
                              bet that sailed ok against wind and tide

                              Plans and building guide are still here:

                              http://www.friend.ly.net/users/dadadata/boat/bolger.html#peero

                              and I believe the price is unchanged.

                              Graeme
                            • graeme19121984
                              There s Bolger s Big Tortoise (Payson calls it a Brick too). Little extra weight than Tortoise, same pile of materials, for a longer waterline. [ Hey gang,
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 3, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                There's Bolger's Big Tortoise (Payson calls it a Brick too). Little
                                extra weight than Tortoise, same pile of materials, for a longer
                                waterline.

                                [ Hey gang, what is the design number for this one? It is not on the
                                group database, and Dynamite doesn't include it in his study plans
                                packet (yet it is in there on the price sheet). I've heard tell that
                                it is actually a plan of Dynamite's own doing to compete with the
                                Brick as once offered by Bernie Wolfard, but Dynamite wouldn't mess
                                with PCB's name... eg. it is clearly marked as a "Phillip C Bolger"
                                plan, but I can't make out the number at the Instant Boats site:
                                http://www.instantboats.com/brick.htm ]

                                Another small easily cartopped boat (the brief was for a pair of
                                toppers), and well recommended by PCB, is the Peero. If thought too
                                unstable, add stability like Gregg did:

                                http://www.carlsondesign.com/projects.html#Pirogue
                                bet that sailed ok against wind and tide

                                Plans and building guide are still here:

                                http://www.friend.ly.net/users/dadadata/boat/bolger.html#peero

                                and I believe the price is unchanged.

                                Graeme



                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I've found that, if two boats are about the same weight, the longer
                                boat
                                > will be easier to get on top of a car.
                              • Charles Rouse
                                - In bolger@yahoogroups.com, graeme19121984 wrote: Hi, I have the plans for that boat, and the boat in the garage. I need to paint it
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 4, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  - In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                  wrote:


                                  Hi, I have the plans for that boat, and the boat in the garage. I
                                  need to paint it and put on the rig. I hope to sail it this spring.
                                  The number on the plan is #597. There's no name, but the plan
                                  indicates it's for "Montgomery Boat Yard." It's more of a Stretch
                                  Tortoise than a Brick. I adapted the rig myself, using the Brick as
                                  an example.Mr. Payson has some information about this one in his
                                  latest book.

                                  Charles Rouse

                                  > There's Bolger's Big Tortoise (Payson calls it a Brick too). Little
                                  > extra weight than Tortoise, same pile of materials, for a longer
                                  > waterline.
                                  >
                                  > [ Hey gang, what is the design number for this one? It is not on
                                  the
                                  > group database, and Dynamite doesn't include it in his study plans
                                  > packet (yet it is in there on the price sheet). I've heard tell
                                  that
                                  > it is actually a plan of Dynamite's own doing to compete with the
                                  > Brick as once offered by Bernie Wolfard, but Dynamite wouldn't mess
                                  > with PCB's name... eg. it is clearly marked as a "Phillip C Bolger"
                                  > plan, but I can't make out the number at the Instant Boats site:
                                  > http://www.instantboats.com/brick.htm ]
                                  >
                                • graeme19121984
                                  ... Thankyou Charles, I ve entered the info in the database. Fair winds this spring Graeme
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 6, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Rouse" <ro43use@...> wrote:
                                    > Hi, I have the plans for that boat, and the boat in the garage...

                                    Thankyou Charles,

                                    I've entered the info in the database.

                                    Fair winds this spring
                                    Graeme
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.