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Some thoughts on fashion...

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  • loosemoosefilmworks
    The current discussion on the looks of certain Bolger boats give me a sort of feeling akin the one the kid in the Emperors New Clothes must have had... Back
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 18, 2009
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      The current discussion on the looks of certain Bolger boats give me a
      sort of feeling akin the one the kid in the Emperors New Clothes must
      have had...

      Back when Sheila and I were cruising Africa and the Canaries on Loose
      Moose 2 part of our income was derived from the fact that I had a
      hookah diving system and could clean peoples bottoms. Just before the
      ARC rally left I cleaned a lot of Swans and one thing that was
      noticeable from underneath was that the bottom of the current Swan
      designs had an uncanny similarity to Loose Moose 2 very sharpiesque if
      you will.

      Some years later I keep seeing boats that everyone drools over that
      have plumb bows,plumb sides and flat bottoms but for some reason they
      seem to get measured with a different stick...If you spend over a
      million dollars on a yacht that looks like an advanced sharpie it is
      hipper than hip yet if you build it yourself out of plywood...Yuck!

      Take a look at the BMW Oracle Yacht for the Louis Vuitton Pacific
      Cup...Once you get past the canting keel and look at the hull form you
      see plumb sides and a flat highly rockered bottom! The chines are
      nicely rounded but otherwise there is a lot more in common with the
      Advanced sharpie than most would think. Look at the photos of Loose
      Moose and BMW Oracle for an example in the photo section
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1257055843/pic/list;jsessionid=DAFBD031D76F684199944DAB344D0126.

      The reason I'm going on about all this is simply that we as Bolger
      builders have a habit of being the very people who promote the designs
      as some how less than they are both in performance and looks.Truth is
      Bolger for years has been so far ahead of the trend that most of his
      stuff is dead on fashionable now if you take a moment to think about it.

      Bob
      http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
    • Christopher C. Wetherill
      It has always seemed to me that there is a sense of pride in being counter fashion in this group. I myself have always thought that form should follow
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 18, 2009
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        It has always seemed to me that there is a sense of pride in being
        counter fashion in this group. I myself have always thought that form
        should follow function. My perception of PCB&F is that this is ther
        philosophy too.

        V/R
        Chris

        loosemoosefilmworks wrote:
        > The current discussion on the looks of certain Bolger boats give me a
        > sort of feeling akin the one the kid in the Emperors New Clothes must
        > have had...
        >
        > Back when Sheila and I were cruising Africa and the Canaries on Loose
        > Moose 2 part of our income was derived from the fact that I had a
        > hookah diving system and could clean peoples bottoms. Just before the
        > ARC rally left I cleaned a lot of Swans and one thing that was
        > noticeable from underneath was that the bottom of the current Swan
        > designs had an uncanny similarity to Loose Moose 2 very sharpiesque if
        > you will.
        >
        > Some years later I keep seeing boats that everyone drools over that
        > have plumb bows,plumb sides and flat bottoms but for some reason they
        > seem to get measured with a different stick...If you spend over a
        > million dollars on a yacht that looks like an advanced sharpie it is
        > hipper than hip yet if you build it yourself out of plywood...Yuck!
        >
        > Take a look at the BMW Oracle Yacht for the Louis Vuitton Pacific
        > Cup...Once you get past the canting keel and look at the hull form you
        > see plumb sides and a flat highly rockered bottom! The chines are
        > nicely rounded but otherwise there is a lot more in common with the
        > Advanced sharpie than most would think. Look at the photos of Loose
        > Moose and BMW Oracle for an example in the photo section
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1257055843/pic/list;jsessionid=DAFBD031D76F684199944DAB344D0126.
        >
        > The reason I'm going on about all this is simply that we as Bolger
        > builders have a habit of being the very people who promote the designs
        > as some how less than they are both in performance and looks.Truth is
        > Bolger for years has been so far ahead of the trend that most of his
        > stuff is dead on fashionable now if you take a moment to think about it.
        >
        > Bob
        > http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Doug Pollard
        ... All you say is likely true but unless you have a limited width in your boat shed or are limitede in width by traloring, why not have the flair that adds
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 18, 2009
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          loosemoosefilmworks wrote:
          >
          > The current discussion on the looks of certain Bolger boats give me a
          > sort of feeling akin the one the kid in the Emperors New Clothes must
          > have had...
          >
          > Back when Sheila and I were cruising Africa and the Canaries on Loose
          > Moose 2 part of our income was derived from the fact that I had a
          > hookah diving system and could clean peoples bottoms. Just before the
          > ARC rally left I cleaned a lot of Swans and one thing that was
          > noticeable from underneath was that the bottom of the current Swan
          > designs had an uncanny similarity to Loose Moose 2 very sharpiesque if
          > you will.
          >
          > Some years later I keep seeing boats that everyone drools over that
          > have plumb bows,plumb sides and flat bottoms but for some reason they
          > seem to get measured with a different stick...If you spend over a
          > million dollars on a yacht that looks like an advanced sharpie it is
          > hipper than hip yet if you build it yourself out of plywood...Yuck!
          >
          > Take a look at the BMW Oracle Yacht for the Louis Vuitton Pacific
          > Cup...Once you get past the canting keel and look at the hull form you
          > see plumb sides and a flat highly rockered bottom! The chines are
          > nicely rounded but otherwise there is a lot more in common with the
          > Advanced sharpie than most would think. Look at the photos of Loose
          > Moose and BMW Oracle for an example in the photo section
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1257055843/pic/list;jsessionid=DAFBD031D76F684199944DAB344D0126.
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1257055843/pic/list;jsessionid=DAFBD031D76F684199944DAB344D0126.>
          >
          > The reason I'm going on about all this is simply that we as Bolger
          > builders have a habit of being the very people who promote the designs
          > as some how less than they are both in performance and looks.Truth is
          > Bolger for years has been so far ahead of the trend that most of his
          > stuff is dead on fashionable now if you take a moment to think about it.
          >
          > Bob
          > http://boatbits.blogspot.com/ <http://boatbits.blogspot.com/>
          >
          >
          All you say is likely true but unless you have a limited width in
          your boat shed or are limitede in width by traloring, why not have the
          flair that adds stability in case of a knock down. Its kind of Like
          building a 15 ft boat with a square bow it makes a big 15ft boat but
          why? You can build a bigger boat and have the very same boat with a
          pointed bow. Why cut the bow off and put in a transom? I kind of
          feel about square sided boats like I feel about oyster toads who are
          only pretty to other oyster toads now matter how practical they may be.
          I don't believe in functional beauty especially when the uglyness does
          not seem to have a function.
          Square sided boats can be attractive if you only look at them from
          the side. This especially if they have a nice looking shear. But from
          bow or stern UGH. I feel sure that a designer of square boats would
          leave off the bow,stern view off of his drawings if he could. They shore
          dont comment on their good looks from the stern.
          I feel like your post is not so much in praise of square sided boats
          is it is making fun of the super yacht racing designers who are just
          copying Bolger, or/and Comadore Monroe. Was that your intent?? Any way
          I agree with this 100%.
          Doug
        • Bill
          Bob, My thoughts exactly when I saw Bob Perry s Far Harbor 39. http://www.containeryachts.com/ It s an AS39 with a bolt-on keel. Bolger designed that years
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 18, 2009
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            Bob,
            My thoughts exactly when I saw Bob Perry's "Far Harbor 39."
            http://www.containeryachts.com/
            It's an AS39 with a bolt-on keel. Bolger designed that years ago.

            Bill. Long micro Pugnacious

            >>>>snip<<<<
            > Some years later I keep seeing boats that everyone drools over that
            > have plumb bows,plumb sides and flat bottoms but for some reason they
            > seem to get measured with a different stick...If you spend over a
            > million dollars on a yacht that looks like an advanced sharpie it is
            > hipper than hip yet if you build it yourself out of plywood...Yuck!
            >
            > Take a look at the BMW Oracle Yacht for the Louis Vuitton Pacific
            > Cup...Once you get past the canting keel and look at the hull form you
            > see plumb sides and a flat highly rockered bottom! The chines are
            > nicely rounded but otherwise there is a lot more in common with the
            > Advanced sharpie than most would think. Look at the photos of Loose
            > Moose and BMW Oracle for an example in the photo section

            > Bob
            > http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
          • Harry James
            You add destabilizing weight above the water line with flair, I am not so sure that you gain. HJ
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 18, 2009
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              You add destabilizing weight above the water line with flair, I am not
              so sure that you gain.

              HJ

              Doug Pollard wrote:
              > loosemoosefilmworks wrote:
              >
              >> The current discussion on the looks of certain Bolger boats give me a
              >> sort of feeling akin the one the kid in the Emperors New Clothes must
              >> have had...
              >>
              >> Back when Sheila and I were cruising Africa and the Canaries on Loose
              >> Moose 2 part of our income was derived from the fact that I had a
              >> hookah diving system and could clean peoples bottoms. Just before the
              >> ARC rally left I cleaned a lot of Swans and one thing that was
              >> noticeable from underneath was that the bottom of the current Swan
              >> designs had an uncanny similarity to Loose Moose 2 very sharpiesque if
              >> you will.
              >>
              >> Some years later I keep seeing boats that everyone drools over that
              >> have plumb bows,plumb sides and flat bottoms but for some reason they
              >> seem to get measured with a different stick...If you spend over a
              >> million dollars on a yacht that looks like an advanced sharpie it is
              >> hipper than hip yet if you build it yourself out of plywood...Yuck!
              >>
              >> Take a look at the BMW Oracle Yacht for the Louis Vuitton Pacific
              >> Cup...Once you get past the canting keel and look at the hull form you
              >> see plumb sides and a flat highly rockered bottom! The chines are
              >> nicely rounded but otherwise there is a lot more in common with the
              >> Advanced sharpie than most would think. Look at the photos of Loose
              >> Moose and BMW Oracle for an example in the photo section
              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1257055843/pic/list;jsessionid=DAFBD031D76F684199944DAB344D0126.
              >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1257055843/pic/list;jsessionid=DAFBD031D76F684199944DAB344D0126.>
              >>
              >> The reason I'm going on about all this is simply that we as Bolger
              >> builders have a habit of being the very people who promote the designs
              >> as some how less than they are both in performance and looks.Truth is
              >> Bolger for years has been so far ahead of the trend that most of his
              >> stuff is dead on fashionable now if you take a moment to think about it.
              >>
              >> Bob
              >> http://boatbits.blogspot.com/ <http://boatbits.blogspot.com/>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              > All you say is likely true but unless you have a limited width in
              > your boat shed or are limitede in width by traloring, why not have the
              > flair that adds stability in case of a knock down. Its kind of Like
              > building a 15 ft boat with a square bow it makes a big 15ft boat but
              > why? You can build a bigger boat and have the very same boat with a
              > pointed bow. Why cut the bow off and put in a transom? I kind of
              > feel about square sided boats like I feel about oyster toads who are
              > only pretty to other oyster toads now matter how practical they may be.
              > I don't believe in functional beauty especially when the uglyness does
              > not seem to have a function.
              > Square sided boats can be attractive if you only look at them from
              > the side. This especially if they have a nice looking shear. But from
              > bow or stern UGH. I feel sure that a designer of square boats would
              > leave off the bow,stern view off of his drawings if he could. They shore
              > dont comment on their good looks from the stern.
              > I feel like your post is not so much in praise of square sided boats
              > is it is making fun of the super yacht racing designers who are just
              > copying Bolger, or/and Comadore Monroe. Was that your intent?? Any way
              > I agree with this 100%.
              > Doug
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
              > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
              > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
              > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Fred Schumacher
              A few years ago, when a RORO auto carrier was lying on its side in the Gulf of Alaska, it was remarkable how much it looked like an oversize Loose Moose II:
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 20, 2009
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                A few years ago, when a RORO auto carrier was lying on its side in the Gulf
                of Alaska, it was remarkable how much it looked like an oversize Loose Moose
                II: plumb, straight sides and rockered bottom. It's high sides kept it from
                swamping, and it was later towed into harbor. The taconite and coal carriers
                moving in and out of Duluth harbor are the same: plumb and straight; maximum
                capacity with minimum curves. Go to the Duluth harbor webcam (
                http://www.lsmma.com/webcam_large.htm) and take a look at the Walter
                McCarthy, a 1,000 foot-long coal hauling laker. (You'll have to wait till
                spring since the shipping season is over.)

                The Far Harbor 39 suffers from the limits of fiberglass construction, that
                is, it requires more curves than Loose Moose II because of the lack of
                stiffness of fiberglass in comparison to plywood. For years, I've been
                designing boats for fun. I've never published any of my designs. It's simply
                a relaxing thing to do. Right now I'm working on a shipping container
                motorsailer (I've been playing around with that concept for over 10 years)
                and am using Loose Moose II as a starting point.

                Fred Schumacher


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