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Re: Learning to sail ..

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  • Loy Seal
    Here is a link to an article on small boat rudders. http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0715/index.htm#SMALL%20BOAT%20RUDDERS This is included in
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 3, 2008
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      Here is a link to an article on small boat rudders.
      http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0715/index.htm#SMALL%20BOAT%20RUDDERS

      This is included in Jim Michalak's book "Boatbuilding for Beginners."
      I built my Surf's kick up rudder using this. I have broken several
      leeboard arms inside the boat and have now switched to the Junebug
      leeboard mount which is a slot mounted on the gunwales and chines. It
      is made from 1 x 2's. Enjoy the build.
      Loy



      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <paradox_4@...> wrote:
      >
      > Since the common consensus seems to be with the Surf (Crab Skiff)I
      > decided to Purchase the Plans & Instant Boats today :)(via snail
      > mail). I've been doing a fair amount of reading on the topic and
      > there has been mention of two articles about Building the Surf that
      > were written does anyone know if these are still available or which
      > magazines they had been published in?. Also a few people have
      > mentioned a kick up rudder & modified centerboard - has anyone run
      > into a plan for these specific to the Surf? Other info is greatly
      > appreciated and thank you everyone for all your input thus far:)
      >
      > LOL Mr G West I can relate with the amused wife. I went over in a
      > Kayak last summer inside a Lock with my new sunglasses ($400 Revo's
      > ack) spent most of the day down river trying to dive for the glasses.
      > Needless to say I'm the proud new owner of cheapo replica's and the
      > wife still takes the odd poke about seeing the glint of Revo's on the
      > lake;)
      >
      > Steven R
      > Lesson of the day .... Don't wear your Revo's on the water :p
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gregory_west2001" <gwest@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Bolger's "Surf" is as easy to build as "Teal" (with chine logs that
      > > are about 16' long on the outside of the hull that you can have your
      > > local moulding supplier rip for you, along with the gunwales, if you
      > > don't want to mess with cutting them yourself), is a joy to sail, can
      > > be built fairly light (mine's just under 120 pounds), and can be
      > > bailed out if it goes over (provided you put in the flotation
      > > specified in the plans (which would probably make it a bit heavier
      > > than mine) or, as I did, just seal in under the fore and after decks
      > > and install access plates). It also rows great with one or two, and
      > > we often take it out just for a row.
      > >
      > > "Surf" also doesn't need any epoxy or fiberglass, since it was not
      > > designed as an "instant" boat. Mine is painted with semi-gloss house
      > > paint and has been outside now for four years and still looks fine
      > > (or at least as good as when I made it). It is a very quick build.
      > >
      > > If you like "Surf," I would strongly suggest a kick-up rudder if you
      > > are going to sail it anywhere except to and from a deepwater dock,
      > > since it is a real pain to crawl out over that long after deck
      > > without falling in to get at the rudder if the boat is aground. I
      > > tried to free the rudder three years ago out from Mystic Seaport at
      > > low tide, and fell overboard to my wife's neverending amusement. I
      > > spoke to Phil Bolger about that (not my falling overboard) a couple
      > > of years ago at the Wooden Boat show in Newport and he said it was
      > > designed before kick-up rudders were in vogue and he would certainly
      > > want a kickup rudder on the boat now.
      > >
      > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Steve,
      > > >
      > > > I haven't been back over each of these with you question in mind,
      > > but
      > > > - off the top - I'd say that the Bobcat would be the best boat to
      > > > learn to sail in. Small enough to handle by yourself, yet beamy and
      > > > stable enough to let you learn the ropes without worrying too much
      > > > about tipping over.
      > > >
      > > > I think I'll disagree about Teal. Too small and tippy for a
      > > neophyte.
      > > > One of my boating club has one. I'll post his foto and comment from
      > > an
      > > > outing last summer. His opinion hasn't changed with more
      > > familiarity.
      > > > And he's a moderately experienced sailor:
      > > >
      > > > http://waderweb.com/boats/160/080719_hagg/hagglake_start.htm
      > > >
      > > > If the Bobcat is too big a project... maybe Surf?
      > > >
      > > > Cheers,
      > > > David G
      > > >
      > > > "A little learning is a dangerous thing, but a lot of ignorance is
      > > > just as bad" -- Bob Edwards
      > > >
      > > > ***************
      > > >
      > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <paradox_4@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Any opinions on which boat would be the best for learning to sail
      > > on a
      > > > > Small Lake ... Plans I have been considering are the Pirate
      > > Racer, Car
      > > > > Topper, Bobcat, and possibly Rubens Nymph .. any thoughts or other
      > > > > plans to consider?
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks in Advance
      > > > > Steve
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • gregory_west2001
      I overbuilt the leeboard arms with stock 2x2 s (rather than the 3/4 x 1 1/2 shown as the minimum size on the plans) and have not had any problem with them. I
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 3, 2008
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        I overbuilt the leeboard arms with stock 2x2's (rather than the 3/4"
        x 1 1/2" shown as the minimum size on the plans) and have not had any
        problem with them.

        I have heard of people actually breaking the leeboards on this boat,
        but I have not had that problem either (nor any problem with it
        warping). I built my leeboard by epoxying together two sheets of
        1/4" marine plywood as shown on the plans. The plans suggest that a
        3/4" leeboard would be better.

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Loy Seal" <loyseal1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Here is a link to an article on small boat rudders.
        >
        http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0715/index.htm#SMALL
        %20BOAT%20RUDDERS
        >
        > This is included in Jim Michalak's book "Boatbuilding for
        Beginners."
        > I built my Surf's kick up rudder using this. I have broken several
        > leeboard arms inside the boat and have now switched to the Junebug
        > leeboard mount which is a slot mounted on the gunwales and chines.
        It
        > is made from 1 x 2's. Enjoy the build.
        > Loy
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <paradox_4@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Since the common consensus seems to be with the Surf (Crab Skiff)I
        > > decided to Purchase the Plans & Instant Boats today :)(via snail
        > > mail). I've been doing a fair amount of reading on the topic and
        > > there has been mention of two articles about Building the Surf
        that
        > > were written does anyone know if these are still available or
        which
        > > magazines they had been published in?. Also a few people have
        > > mentioned a kick up rudder & modified centerboard - has anyone
        run
        > > into a plan for these specific to the Surf? Other info is greatly
        > > appreciated and thank you everyone for all your input thus far:)
        > >
        > > LOL Mr G West I can relate with the amused wife. I went over in a
        > > Kayak last summer inside a Lock with my new sunglasses ($400
        Revo's
        > > ack) spent most of the day down river trying to dive for the
        glasses.
        > > Needless to say I'm the proud new owner of cheapo replica's and
        the
        > > wife still takes the odd poke about seeing the glint of Revo's on
        the
        > > lake;)
        > >
        > > Steven R
        > > Lesson of the day .... Don't wear your Revo's on the water :p
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gregory_west2001" <gwest@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Bolger's "Surf" is as easy to build as "Teal" (with chine logs
        that
        > > > are about 16' long on the outside of the hull that you can have
        your
        > > > local moulding supplier rip for you, along with the gunwales,
        if you
        > > > don't want to mess with cutting them yourself), is a joy to
        sail, can
        > > > be built fairly light (mine's just under 120 pounds), and can
        be
        > > > bailed out if it goes over (provided you put in the flotation
        > > > specified in the plans (which would probably make it a bit
        heavier
        > > > than mine) or, as I did, just seal in under the fore and after
        decks
        > > > and install access plates). It also rows great with one or
        two, and
        > > > we often take it out just for a row.
        > > >
        > > > "Surf" also doesn't need any epoxy or fiberglass, since it was
        not
        > > > designed as an "instant" boat. Mine is painted with semi-gloss
        house
        > > > paint and has been outside now for four years and still looks
        fine
        > > > (or at least as good as when I made it). It is a very quick
        build.
        > > >
        > > > If you like "Surf," I would strongly suggest a kick-up rudder
        if you
        > > > are going to sail it anywhere except to and from a deepwater
        dock,
        > > > since it is a real pain to crawl out over that long after deck
        > > > without falling in to get at the rudder if the boat is aground.
        I
        > > > tried to free the rudder three years ago out from Mystic
        Seaport at
        > > > low tide, and fell overboard to my wife's neverending
        amusement. I
        > > > spoke to Phil Bolger about that (not my falling overboard) a
        couple
        > > > of years ago at the Wooden Boat show in Newport and he said it
        was
        > > > designed before kick-up rudders were in vogue and he would
        certainly
        > > > want a kickup rudder on the boat now.
        > > >
        > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Steve,
        > > > >
        > > > > I haven't been back over each of these with you question in
        mind,
        > > > but
        > > > > - off the top - I'd say that the Bobcat would be the best
        boat to
        > > > > learn to sail in. Small enough to handle by yourself, yet
        beamy and
        > > > > stable enough to let you learn the ropes without worrying too
        much
        > > > > about tipping over.
        > > > >
        > > > > I think I'll disagree about Teal. Too small and tippy for a
        > > > neophyte.
        > > > > One of my boating club has one. I'll post his foto and
        comment from
        > > > an
        > > > > outing last summer. His opinion hasn't changed with more
        > > > familiarity.
        > > > > And he's a moderately experienced sailor:
        > > > >
        > > > > http://waderweb.com/boats/160/080719_hagg/hagglake_start.htm
        > > > >
        > > > > If the Bobcat is too big a project... maybe Surf?
        > > > >
        > > > > Cheers,
        > > > > David G
        > > > >
        > > > > "A little learning is a dangerous thing, but a lot of
        ignorance is
        > > > > just as bad" -- Bob Edwards
        > > > >
        > > > > ***************
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <paradox_4@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Any opinions on which boat would be the best for learning
        to sail
        > > > on a
        > > > > > Small Lake ... Plans I have been considering are the Pirate
        > > > Racer, Car
        > > > > > Topper, Bobcat, and possibly Rubens Nymph .. any thoughts
        or other
        > > > > > plans to consider?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Thanks in Advance
        > > > > > Steve
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Steve
        Bolger Surf (Crab Skiff).. Just got the plans by mail two days ago from Mr Payson. At the moment I am focusing on the kick up Rudder since many people have
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 21, 2008
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          Bolger Surf (Crab Skiff).. Just got the plans by mail two days ago
          from Mr Payson.

          At the moment I am focusing on the kick up Rudder since many people
          have recommended it to me. An Autocad drawing that I have been working
          on was uploaded to the "Files" Section of this Group and also the
          Canadian Boat Builder Group. If anyone has any suggestions on it
          please let me know -- It is a work in progress; thus my drawing is
          just a first draft. I suspect some of the more salty members of this
          group will find mistakes right away. any input is appreciated! -34 Deg
          C (-29F) = lots of time to study plans :)


          Merry Christmas!
          Steve
        • Col
          Hi, From memory I think on my Surf I used the rudder design for Bolgers Gypsy, which is available in Paysons Instant Boats. It was easy to make and works
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 21, 2008
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            Hi,
            From memory I think on my Surf I used the rudder design for Bolgers
            Gypsy, which is available in Paysons Instant Boats. It was easy to
            make and works fine. I cast a bit of lead into mine to keep it from
            floating up.
            Cheers,
            Col

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <paradox_4@...> wrote:
            >
            > Bolger Surf (Crab Skiff).. Just got the plans by mail two days ago
            > from Mr Payson.
            >
            > At the moment I am focusing on the kick up Rudder since many people
            > have recommended it to me. An Autocad drawing that I have been
            working
            > on was uploaded to the "Files" Section of this Group and also the
            > Canadian Boat Builder Group. If anyone has any suggestions on it
            > please let me know -- It is a work in progress; thus my drawing is
            > just a first draft. I suspect some of the more salty members of
            this
            > group will find mistakes right away. any input is appreciated! -34
            Deg
            > C (-29F) = lots of time to study plans :)
            >
            >
            > Merry Christmas!
            > Steve
            >
          • David C.
            Steve - Don t over think the kick up rudder. As long as you re ruder blade hangs to the proper designed depth, it s just a blade hanging from a bolt. If you
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 22, 2008
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              Steve -

              Don't over think the kick up rudder. As long as you're ruder blade hangs to the proper designed depth, it's just a blade hanging from a bolt.

              If you haven't seen it yet, here's an essay about rudders from Jim Michalak. Just the little drawing (combined with your plans) gives you enough info to build a kick up rudder. Adding the lead sink weight at the bottom is key -- makes it so much more convenient.

              http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0715/index.htm#SMALL%20BOAT%20RUDDERS


              I've always loved the Surf - I've had the plans for years. Maybe it's that cute, little bowsprit, but it sure looks like a fine little boat.

              DC


              ---- Steve <paradox_4@...> wrote:
              > Bolger Surf (Crab Skiff).. Just got the plans by mail two days ago
              > from Mr Payson.
              >
              > At the moment I am focusing on the kick up Rudder since many people
              > have recommended it to me. An Autocad drawing that I have been working
              > on was uploaded to the "Files" Section of this Group and also the
              > Canadian Boat Builder Group. If anyone has any suggestions on it
              > please let me know -- It is a work in progress; thus my drawing is
              > just a first draft. I suspect some of the more salty members of this
              > group will find mistakes right away. any input is appreciated! -34 Deg
              > C (-29F) = lots of time to study plans :)
              >
              >
              > Merry Christmas!
              > Steve
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------
            • gregory_west2001
              I found an old kickup rudder with a long tiller and aluminum side plates from an old dinghy (without a blade) for $30 at a local used sailboat parts store in
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 24, 2008
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                I found an old kickup rudder with a long tiller and aluminum side
                plates from an old dinghy (without a blade) for $30 at a local used
                sailboat parts store in St. Augustine (www.Sailors-Exchange.com) and
                cut a blade for it that roughly matched the plans. One thing you
                will want, however you make your kickup rudder, is a tiller that
                comes at least 6" into the cockpit.

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David C." <d.cassidy@...> wrote:
                >
                > Steve -
                >
                > Don't over think the kick up rudder. As long as you're ruder blade
                hangs to the proper designed depth, it's just a blade hanging from a
                bolt.
                >
                > If you haven't seen it yet, here's an essay about rudders from Jim
                Michalak. Just the little drawing (combined with your plans) gives
                you enough info to build a kick up rudder. Adding the lead sink
                weight at the bottom is key -- makes it so much more convenient.
                >
                >
                http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0715/index.htm#SMALL
                %20BOAT%20RUDDERS
                >
                >
                > I've always loved the Surf - I've had the plans for years. Maybe
                it's that cute, little bowsprit, but it sure looks like a fine little
                boat.
                >
                > DC
                >
                >
                > ---- Steve <paradox_4@...> wrote:
                > > Bolger Surf (Crab Skiff).. Just got the plans by mail two days ago
                > > from Mr Payson.
                > >
                > > At the moment I am focusing on the kick up Rudder since many
                people
                > > have recommended it to me. An Autocad drawing that I have been
                working
                > > on was uploaded to the "Files" Section of this Group and also the
                > > Canadian Boat Builder Group. If anyone has any suggestions on it
                > > please let me know -- It is a work in progress; thus my drawing is
                > > just a first draft. I suspect some of the more salty members of
                this
                > > group will find mistakes right away. any input is appreciated! -
                34 Deg
                > > C (-29F) = lots of time to study plans :)
                > >
                > >
                > > Merry Christmas!
                > > Steve
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ---------
                >
              • S Rose
                The procedure you sent was revised a bit when I got the plans from Mr Payson. It recommends a 58 long straight tiller also several other modifications (Mast
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 24, 2008
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                  The procedure you sent was revised a bit when I got the plans from Mr
                  Payson. It recommends a 58" long straight tiller also several other
                  modifications (Mast step, Bowspirit Slot, Chines, Tiller all have new notes)
                  I can send you a copy for future ref if your interested? I'm going to start
                  on some of the smaller pieces in my apartment over the next while since I
                  can easily take them when I move (LOL assuming my wife doesn't kill me
                  first).





                  Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!



                  Steve



                  _____

                  From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  gregory_west2001
                  Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:03 AM
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [bolger] Re: Learning to sail ..



                  I found an old kickup rudder with a long tiller and aluminum side
                  plates from an old dinghy (without a blade) for $30 at a local used
                  sailboat parts store in St. Augustine (www.Sailors-Exchange.com) and
                  cut a blade for it that roughly matched the plans. One thing you
                  will want, however you make your kickup rudder, is a tiller that
                  comes at least 6" into the cockpit.

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, "David C."
                  <d.cassidy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Steve -
                  >
                  > Don't over think the kick up rudder. As long as you're ruder blade
                  hangs to the proper designed depth, it's just a blade hanging from a
                  bolt.
                  >
                  > If you haven't seen it yet, here's an essay about rudders from Jim
                  Michalak. Just the little drawing (combined with your plans) gives
                  you enough info to build a kick up rudder. Adding the lead sink
                  weight at the bottom is key -- makes it so much more convenient.
                  >
                  >
                  http://marina.
                  <http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0715/index.htm#SMALL>
                  fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0715/index.htm#SMALL
                  %20BOAT%20RUDDERS
                  >
                  >
                  > I've always loved the Surf - I've had the plans for years. Maybe
                  it's that cute, little bowsprit, but it sure looks like a fine little
                  boat.
                  >
                  > DC
                  >
                  >
                  > ---- Steve <paradox_4@...> wrote:
                  > > Bolger Surf (Crab Skiff).. Just got the plans by mail two days ago
                  > > from Mr Payson.
                  > >
                  > > At the moment I am focusing on the kick up Rudder since many
                  people
                  > > have recommended it to me. An Autocad drawing that I have been
                  working
                  > > on was uploaded to the "Files" Section of this Group and also the
                  > > Canadian Boat Builder Group. If anyone has any suggestions on it
                  > > please let me know -- It is a work in progress; thus my drawing is
                  > > just a first draft. I suspect some of the more salty members of
                  this
                  > > group will find mistakes right away. any input is appreciated! -
                  34 Deg
                  > > C (-29F) = lots of time to study plans :)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Merry Christmas!
                  > > Steve
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---------
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • S Rose
                  The cover of this song bore the following note: There is a legend amongst sailors, that when a vessel is out at sea on Christmas Eve, the usual peal which on
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 24, 2008
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                    The cover of this song bore the following note:

                    There is a legend amongst sailors, that when a vessel is out at sea on
                    Christmas Eve, the usual peal which on land ushers in the great Christian
                    Festival from every church steeple is sometimes heard, however far from land
                    the ship may be, and is an assured sign of a prosperous voyage.

                    Sullivan's manuscript consists of three pages, the last of which is dated 21
                    October 1874 and signed by the composer. Sullivan also drafted a title page,
                    headed with the words "Dedicated to" although the song bore no dedication
                    when it was published.




                    Still the night and calm the ocean,
                    Dazzling bright each wintry star;
                    Scarcely felt the vessel's motion,
                    When we heard from out afar
                    Softly pealing,
                    Gently stealing,
                    Silv'ry bells in volleys ringing.
                    Ringing out in holy glee;
                    E'en to us glad tidings bringing,
                    E'en to us glad tidings bringing,
                    Christmas bells at sea.

                    Wrapt in awe around them gazing,
                    Mute the crew in wonder stand,
                    Whence could come those sounds amazing,
                    Far from sight or sound of land?
                    Rising, falling,
                    Home recalling,
                    Thoughts of home and heaven bringing,
                    Sure a silent mystery
                    'Twas to hear their silv'ry ringing,
                    'Twas to hear their silv'ry ringing,
                    Christmas Bells at sea.

                    Vain Thy ways, O Heaven, to measure:
                    Who thy secrets can divine?
                    In our hearts enough to treasure
                    Tokens of Thy love benign
                    Where no steeple
                    Calls its people
                    Tidings of a Saviour bringing,
                    Angel hands are set by Thee
                    From a cloud-built belfry ringing
                    From a cloud-built belfry ringing
                    Christmas Bells at sea.





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Joe Tribulato
                    The tiller on Surf is long over the aft deck. I rigged a loop of bungee through the aft cleat to keep it from swinging out of reach. Joe T
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 25, 2008
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                      The tiller on Surf is long over the aft deck. I rigged a loop of
                      bungee through the aft cleat to keep it from swinging out of reach.

                      Joe T
                    • Joe Tribulato
                      I taught myself to sail in Teal in a 100 acre lake. It worked fine there. I built it with a tombstone transom as in Surf because I wanted to eliminate that
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 25, 2008
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                        I taught myself to sail in Teal in a 100 acre lake. It worked fine
                        there. I built it with a tombstone transom as in Surf because I wanted
                        to eliminate that extension of the skeg. The rudder was modified
                        accordingly for a more upright attitude. It looks better to my eye and
                        works fine too. If I were doing it again I would build a kick up
                        rudder and leeboard. Michalak's book can show you how.

                        Joe T
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