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Hull ID for custom-built boat procedure?

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  • shemayalaurel
    Hi folks, I ve been in the process of getting a glasshouse Chebacco built, over the last year. Finally, it s almost there! Now I have to figure out about the
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
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      Hi folks,

      I've been in the process of getting a glasshouse Chebacco built, over
      the last year. Finally, it's almost there!

      Now I have to figure out about the hull ID number. Here's the catch:
      I didn't build the boat, and it isn't being built in a backyard.
      It's being built at New England Shipyard, in Rhode Island. But they
      never build boats from scratch -- they normally do restoration work.
      So they have no idea about the hull ID number either -- they think
      that's up to me. Which is fine with me, if it is -- but shouldn't
      the number have more to do with them because they built the boat?

      I'm in Massachusetts... which is where the boat will be registered.

      If anybody has any light to shed on this, that would be great. I
      tried searching in the old messages, but haven't had any luck so far
      with something that applies to this specific situation.

      Meantime, there are photos if anybody would like to see. The most
      recent ones aren't up yet, but will be soon.
      http://www.smountainlaurel.smugmug.com/gallery/4116147_7eCk9#389686713
      _j6wYy

      The design has been modified a bit to make a cockpit well, so that
      it's possible to move between the cabin and the cockpit without
      steps -- who says that flipped out knees should mean that you can't
      go sailing! There's a cover for the well that interlocks with the
      drop boards, to make the cockpit weather tight -- if you go back
      through the photos there are pictures of that.

      Best regards, and many thanks for any ideas on the hull ID number,

      Shemaya Laurel
      glasshouse Chebacco "Auklet"
      Holyoke, MA
    • Bill Parkes
      Are you kidding? Don t register the boat...ever! I ve never registered my Dovekie (or any other boat I ve built)anywhere and don t intend to. I know you
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
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        Are you kidding? Don't register the boat...ever!
        I've never registered my Dovekie (or any other boat
        I've built)anywhere and don't intend to. I know you
        Massachusetts types love your taxes, but I never
        dreamed you'd actually seek them out.
      • cecbell
        Here in NH people regularly get kicked off the water for not showing proper registration. The last time I went out this year the guy pulling his boat out in
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
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          Here in NH people regularly get kicked off the water for not showing
          proper registration. The last time I went out this year the guy pulling
          his boat out in front of me was bitching about being kicked off because
          he couldn't show his. You bet your bippy I register my little gem and
          keep it current. It ain't that expensive.

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parkes <icusa98@...> wrote:
          >
          > Are you kidding? Don't register the boat...ever!
          > I've never registered my Dovekie (or any other boat
          > I've built)anywhere and don't intend to. I know you
          > Massachusetts types love your taxes, but I never
          > dreamed you'd actually seek them out.
          >
        • JB
          Go to http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuilder/part1/subpartc.htm and it will tell you the who, how, why, what and where. I would assume you can apply
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
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            Go to http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuilder/part1/subpartc.htm and
            it will tell you the who, how, why, what and where. I would assume you can
            apply for the builders ID as you have had the boat built to your design.
            I'll bet the shipyard already knows about it but doesn't want the warranty
            responsibility, especially if you someday sell it.



            JB



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ben
            Here they impound your boat and after a year it s crushed or dismantled.Oh you also get a hefty fine and black listed by the company that owns/manages the
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 14, 2008
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              Here they impound your boat and after a year it's crushed or
              dismantled.Oh you also get a hefty fine and black listed by the
              company that owns/manages the lake.That keeps you off all the rest or
              at least gets you hasseled by th warden.

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "cecbell" <cecbell@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Here in NH people regularly get kicked off the water for not showing
              > proper registration. The last time I went out this year the guy
              pulling
              > his boat out in front of me was bitching about being kicked off
              because
              > he couldn't show his. You bet your bippy I register my little gem
              and
              > keep it current. It ain't that expensive.
              >
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parkes <icusa98@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Are you kidding? Don't register the boat...ever!
              > > I've never registered my Dovekie (or any other boat
              > > I've built)anywhere and don't intend to. I know you
              > > Massachusetts types love your taxes, but I never
              > > dreamed you'd actually seek them out.
              > >
              >
            • Roger Padvorac
              Hi Shemaya, I m glad you found a way to work around your knees and keep on boating. Each state has different rules about boat registration and how its done.
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 15, 2008
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                Hi Shemaya,
                I'm glad you found a way to work around your knees and keep on boating. Each state has different rules about boat registration and how its done. While Washington state is very insistent about boat registration (for boats large enough to require this), there isn't a requirement to have a hull ID or number.

                Since your state wants boats to be registered so its easier to track them and to collect yearly fees, likely they will be willing to answer all your questions on how to meet the requirements for registration. Your best bet is to contact them, ask them what they require for registration, and then ask them how to get this information. A state like Massachusetts is likely to have much of this online, so you might try searching the web for this.

                This web site
                www.boat-ed.com
                Provides official boating information and safety courses for 41 states in the US.

                This page from the Massachusetts course provides a starting point on boat registration and Hull IDs in that state.
                www.boat-ed.com/ma/course/p4-1_boatnumbers.htm

                Since the boat is being built out of state, and Massachusetts already has provisions to inspect boats and issue a Hull ID, getting Massachusetts to do this for your boat seems like it might be the simplest solution, even if its not their normal procedure.

                May your day be filled with clarity, grace, strength, progress, and warm laughter,
                Roger

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "shemayalaurel" <shemayalaurel@...>
                To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 3:16 PM
                Subject: [bolger] Hull ID for custom-built boat procedure?


                > Hi folks,
                > ...
                > Now I have to figure out about the hull ID number. Here's the catch:
                > I didn't build the boat, and it isn't being built in a backyard.
                > It's being built at New England Shipyard, in Rhode Island. But they
                > never build boats from scratch -- they normally do restoration work.
                > So they have no idea about the hull ID number either -- they think
                > that's up to me. Which is fine with me, if it is -- but shouldn't
                > the number have more to do with them because they built the boat?
                >
                > I'm in Massachusetts... which is where the boat will be registered.
                >
                > If anybody has any light to shed on this, that would be great.
                > ...
                > Shemaya Laurel
                > glasshouse Chebacco "Auklet"
                > Holyoke, MA


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Michael Stratton
                There is a difference between a hull ID number and registration in most states.  Obtaining a hull ID number means that the folks that issue them have
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 15, 2008
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                  There is a difference between a hull ID number and registration in most states.  Obtaining a hull ID number means that the folks that issue them have inspected them for adequate construction (at least here in WV and Ohio).  You get two tags to permanently affix to the boat, and they suggest that one be in a place not easily found and removed.  That way, you have proof that boat is actually yours if it is ever taken.
                   
                  We had to have a hull ID number for the replica of a Viking faering we built, and took it to our local DNR watercraft office, where they inspected it for obvious flaws in construction (by the way, our little reproduction boat caused quite a stir!).
                   
                  Registration is like a liscense for a car in a state.  Here you get a small square sticker that afixes to the bow of your boat, with an expiration date.  If you don't have the sticker, you get a ticket and a fine.  To register the boat, you have to have a Hull ID number.  That's how it works here.  I can't imagine it being much different in other states.
                   
                  Mike

                  Life is like sailing -- you can steer a course, but sometimes, in the end, you have to go where the strongest wind takes you.

                  --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Roger Padvorac <roger@...> wrote:

                  From: Roger Padvorac <roger@...>
                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Hull ID for custom-built boat procedure?
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 1:52 PM

                  Hi Shemaya,
                  I'm glad you found a way to work around your knees and keep on boating.
                  Each state has different rules about boat registration and how its done. While
                  Washington state is very insistent about boat registration (for boats large
                  enough to require this), there isn't a requirement to have a hull ID or
                  number.

                  Since your state wants boats to be registered so its easier to track them and
                  to collect yearly fees, likely they will be willing to answer all your questions
                  on how to meet the requirements for registration. Your best bet is to contact
                  them, ask them what they require for registration, and then ask them how to get
                  this information. A state like Massachusetts is likely to have much of this
                  online, so you might try searching the web for this.

                  This web site
                  www.boat-ed.com
                  Provides official boating information and safety courses for 41 states in the
                  US.

                  This page from the Massachusetts course provides a starting point on boat
                  registration and Hull IDs in that state.
                  www.boat-ed.com/ma/course/p4-1_boatnumbers.htm

                  Since the boat is being built out of state, and Massachusetts already has
                  provisions to inspect boats and issue a Hull ID, getting Massachusetts to do
                  this for your boat seems like it might be the simplest solution, even if its not
                  their normal procedure.

                  May your day be filled with clarity, grace, strength, progress, and warm
                  laughter,
                  Roger

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "shemayalaurel" <shemayalaurel@...>
                  To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 3:16 PM
                  Subject: [bolger] Hull ID for custom-built boat procedure?


                  > Hi folks,
                  > ...
                  > Now I have to figure out about the hull ID number. Here's the catch:
                  > I didn't build the boat, and it isn't being built in a backyard.
                  > It's being built at New England Shipyard, in Rhode Island. But they
                  > never build boats from scratch -- they normally do restoration work.
                  > So they have no idea about the hull ID number either -- they think
                  > that's up to me. Which is fine with me, if it is -- but shouldn't

                  > the number have more to do with them because they built the boat?
                  >
                  > I'm in Massachusetts... which is where the boat will be registered.
                  >
                  > If anybody has any light to shed on this, that would be great.
                  > ...
                  > Shemaya Laurel
                  > glasshouse Chebacco "Auklet"
                  > Holyoke, MA


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Roger Padvorac
                  Hi Mike, Washington state policy is an interesting mix of libertarianism and socialism. They are really hot on people paying license and usage fees so the
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 15, 2008
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                    Hi Mike,
                    Washington state policy is an interesting mix of libertarianism and socialism. They are really hot on people paying license and usage fees so the people using natural resources are the ones paying for the state cost of managing those resources, and the people not using these resources aren't paying for them. They also have extensive state agencies managing and controlling natural resources for the public good, which are paid for by these license and usage fees.

                    In the same election Washington can vote far right on some issues, and far left on some other issues, so there isn't a consistent approach to state policy.

                    I based my comment on not having to have a Hull ID to register a boat in Washington state on this web page:
                    www.boat-ed.com/wa/handbook/register.htm
                    Which says - To title or register your vessel, you need to provide:
                    Vessel's hull identification number, if any

                    I looked around on the state licensing web site, and there wasn't any special procedure for getting at title and registration for owner built boats. The Vessel Title Application form is mostly about describing the boat and the intended usage of the boat, presumably for determining the applicable taxes (several) and for law enforcement identification in case of missing or forged Hull IDs.

                    Some of the common law for the far western states is significantly different from the eastern states, in part because some of the roots of the common law for western states are Spanish rather than English like for many eastern states. Its hard to second guess all this, and this is why law that isn't determined by federal control has to be taken on a state by state basis.

                    For boats not large enough to require documentation by the Coast Guard (or in a usage category the Coast Guard requires to be documented), its entirely up to the states what procedure they use to register them. Most of the western states are pretty hot on their rights to determine their own policies (or lack of them).

                    In Washington, boats without a motor and under 16 feet in length, don't have to be registered at all. In addition boats with a motor of 10 horsepower or less, that are less than 16 feet long, that are used only on non-federal waters, don't have to be registered either. So a popular boat length in Washington is 15 feet 10 inches. Happily, Bolger designed quite a few boats just under 16 feet in length.

                    May your day be filled with clarity, grace, strength, progress, and warm laughter,
                    Roger

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Michael Stratton" <mind.sailor@...>
                    To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:30 PM
                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Hull ID for custom-built boat procedure?

                    ...


                    Registration is like a liscense for a car in a state. Here you get a small square sticker that afixes to the bow of your boat, with an expiration date. If you don't have the sticker, you get a ticket and a fine. To register the boat, you have to have a Hull ID number. That's how it works here. I can't imagine it being much different in other states.

                    Mike



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Darnell
                    Hull ID? Are you sure you don t have registration and documenting mixed up. In most states to register you take you boat to the appropriate authority and
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 15, 2008
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                      Hull ID? Are you sure you don't have registration and documenting
                      mixed up. In most states to register you take you boat to the
                      appropriate authority and they give you a number and tell you where
                      to post it on your boat. To find this go to your state governments
                      Web site and search for boat registration. Doing this will get you
                      taxed, but you won't lose your boat or go to jail. In VA you number
                      is put on the boat near the bow and has a VA sticker placed in front
                      of it.

                      Documenting, usually is only for boats planning on going out of the
                      country (not including Canada, I believe) and thus having to have the
                      boat documented as a vessel owned by a US citizen. When documenting
                      the number assigned to your boat is carved into the inner keel or
                      some other form of permanent marking. Your boat under the new rules
                      must also be registered in the state.

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "shemayalaurel" <shemayalaurel@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi folks,
                      >
                      > I've been in the process of getting a glasshouse Chebacco built,
                      over
                      > the last year. Finally, it's almost there!
                      >
                      > Now I have to figure out about the hull ID number. Here's the
                      catch:
                      > I didn't build the boat, and it isn't being built in a backyard.
                      > It's being built at New England Shipyard, in Rhode Island. But
                      they
                      > never build boats from scratch -- they normally do restoration
                      work.
                      > So they have no idea about the hull ID number either -- they think
                      > that's up to me. Which is fine with me, if it is -- but shouldn't
                      > the number have more to do with them because they built the boat?
                      >
                      > I'm in Massachusetts... which is where the boat will be registered.
                      >
                      > If anybody has any light to shed on this, that would be great. I
                      > tried searching in the old messages, but haven't had any luck so
                      far
                      > with something that applies to this specific situation.
                      >
                      > Meantime, there are photos if anybody would like to see. The most
                      > recent ones aren't up yet, but will be soon.
                      >
                      http://www.smountainlaurel.smugmug.com/gallery/4116147_7eCk9#389686713
                      > _j6wYy
                      >
                      > The design has been modified a bit to make a cockpit well, so that
                      > it's possible to move between the cabin and the cockpit without
                      > steps -- who says that flipped out knees should mean that you can't
                      > go sailing! There's a cover for the well that interlocks with the
                      > drop boards, to make the cockpit weather tight -- if you go back
                      > through the photos there are pictures of that.
                      >
                      > Best regards, and many thanks for any ideas on the hull ID number,
                      >
                      > Shemaya Laurel
                      > glasshouse Chebacco "Auklet"
                      > Holyoke, MA
                      >
                    • Ben
                      Hull ID isa serial number given to a boat by the government.ALL BOATS are required to have it in order to be registered and titled.I just went thru this with
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 16, 2008
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                        Hull ID isa serial number given to a boat by the government.ALL BOATS
                        are required to have it in order to be registered and titled.I just
                        went thru this with one of my boats.It's a pain but it is required
                        nationally in the US.

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Darnell" <DTD@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hull ID? Are you sure you don't have registration and documenting
                        > mixed up. In most states to register you take you boat to the
                        > appropriate authority and they give you a number and tell you where
                        > to post it on your boat. To find this go to your state governments
                        > Web site and search for boat registration. Doing this will get you
                        > taxed, but you won't lose your boat or go to jail. In VA you number
                        > is put on the boat near the bow and has a VA sticker placed in front
                        > of it.
                        >
                        > Documenting, usually is only for boats planning on going out of the
                        > country (not including Canada, I believe) and thus having to have
                        the
                        > boat documented as a vessel owned by a US citizen. When documenting
                        > the number assigned to your boat is carved into the inner keel or
                        > some other form of permanent marking. Your boat under the new rules
                        > must also be registered in the state.
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "shemayalaurel" <shemayalaurel@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi folks,
                        > >
                        > > I've been in the process of getting a glasshouse Chebacco built,
                        > over
                        > > the last year. Finally, it's almost there!
                        > >
                        > > Now I have to figure out about the hull ID number. Here's the
                        > catch:
                        > > I didn't build the boat, and it isn't being built in a backyard.
                        > > It's being built at New England Shipyard, in Rhode Island. But
                        > they
                        > > never build boats from scratch -- they normally do restoration
                        > work.
                        > > So they have no idea about the hull ID number either -- they think
                        > > that's up to me. Which is fine with me, if it is -- but shouldn't
                        > > the number have more to do with them because they built the boat?
                        > >
                        > > I'm in Massachusetts... which is where the boat will be
                        registered.
                        > >
                        > > If anybody has any light to shed on this, that would be great. I
                        > > tried searching in the old messages, but haven't had any luck so
                        > far
                        > > with something that applies to this specific situation.
                        > >
                        > > Meantime, there are photos if anybody would like to see. The most
                        > > recent ones aren't up yet, but will be soon.
                        > >
                        >
                        http://www.smountainlaurel.smugmug.com/gallery/4116147_7eCk9#389686713
                        > > _j6wYy
                        > >
                        > > The design has been modified a bit to make a cockpit well, so that
                        > > it's possible to move between the cabin and the cockpit without
                        > > steps -- who says that flipped out knees should mean that you
                        can't
                        > > go sailing! There's a cover for the well that interlocks with the
                        > > drop boards, to make the cockpit weather tight -- if you go back
                        > > through the photos there are pictures of that.
                        > >
                        > > Best regards, and many thanks for any ideas on the hull ID number,
                        > >
                        > > Shemaya Laurel
                        > > glasshouse Chebacco "Auklet"
                        > > Holyoke, MA
                        > >
                        >
                      • shemayalaurel
                        Thanks to everybody for all your thoughts and suggestions on this question! From references offered here, and others that turned up, it seems that hin is
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 16, 2008
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                          Thanks to everybody for all your thoughts and suggestions on this
                          question! From references offered here, and others that turned up,
                          it seems that hin is federal, but if the boat is home built that
                          number is provided via the state boating agency. If you don't need
                          registration or insurance -- if the boat is small enough, no motor,
                          or whatever applies in a given state -- and you haven't sunk enough
                          money into it to be frightened into forking out insurance -- than it
                          appears that the hin doesn't matter. But if you need any of those
                          things like registration or insurance it becomes an issue.

                          For a boat to qualify as home built, it must not be intended for
                          sale. If it is intended for sale, then the builder is
                          a "manufacturer". The builder must apply to the feds for a
                          manufacturer code, which makes up the first part of the hin.

                          Home built hin's have a state code followed by the letter z in place
                          of the manufacturer code -- so the hin identifies the boat as home
                          built to the assorted agencies who care.

                          So anyway, if I do the home built routine for the hin, the boat would
                          be identified to the insurance folks as home built, which would
                          contradict what I was telling them about its cost. Since that cost
                          was high enough that I care quite a bit about insurance, I'm working
                          with the fellow who built it about him getting a manufacturer's code
                          so we can do it right. Here's hoping!

                          Thanks again,

                          Shemaya
                          glasshouse Chebacco "Auklet"
                        • ANDREW AIREY
                          Had a quick look at the USCG site - it looks a lot worse than what we have to put up with in the UK.Aren t there any exemptions for self builds,traditional
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 16, 2008
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                            Had a quick look at the USCG site - it looks a lot worse than what we have to put up with in the UK.Aren't there any exemptions for self builds,traditional designs etc
                            cheers
                            andy airey

                            Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                          • Grant MacLaren
                            http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.htm I have an I/O made by Four Winns. The Hull ID and engine ID contain a wealth of information in alpha/numeric
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 16, 2008
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                              http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.htm

                              I have an I/O made by Four Winns.
                              The Hull ID and engine ID contain a
                              wealth of information
                              in alpha/numeric code.
                              They are much like the VINs found on your car.
                              Both are good numbers to have and to know
                              if you are involved in repairs to the boat.

                              "Documenting" a vessel (in the USA) is tougher today
                              than it was a few years back -- that's because
                              a documented vessel was exempt from needing
                              state registration numbers. But now almost
                              all boats are required to have state registration.
                              See:

                              http://www.docyourboat.com/?gclid=CI7g_vaY-5YCFQIfswodHmyQWw

                              In Missouri and many other states, boat operators
                              licenses will soon be rquired. The lay is being
                              phased in by birth year. I was born in 1936, so
                              never be required to have a license, but I got
                              one in 2006, just for the heck of it.

                              http://www.boat-ed.com/mo/course/p6-1_responsibilities.htm

                              BTW -- I've built four boats and never got a hull
                              number for any of them.
                              : -)
                            • Bill
                              Shemaya, Just to muddy the waters a bit more... I got my HIN from the State of Ohio and it designates my Long Micro as a homebuilt. My marina requires
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
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                                Shemaya,
                                Just to muddy the waters a bit more...
                                I got my HIN from the State of Ohio and it designates my Long Micro
                                as a homebuilt. My marina requires insurance but my homeowners policy
                                has limited coverage for a boat (technically my LM is covered but it's
                                only for a few thousand dollars, so I didn't want to rely on my
                                homeowners policy to cover me).

                                I got my LM surveyed, then mailed the surveyor's report to Boat US,
                                and they wrote a policy. The coverage is decent and the premium is
                                reasonable. The hardest part of the process was finding a marine
                                surveyor who wasn't terrified of a homebuilt boat. I don't know if
                                this helps since someone is building the boat for you, but it may help
                                someone else on the list.

                                Bill, in Ohio (but formerly of Lowell)
                                LM Pugnacious


                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "shemayalaurel" <shemayalaurel@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Thanks to everybody for all your thoughts and suggestions on this
                                > question! From references offered here, and others that turned up,
                                > it seems that hin is federal, but if the boat is home built that
                                > number is provided via the state boating agency. If you don't need
                                > registration or insurance -- if the boat is small enough, no motor,
                                > or whatever applies in a given state -- and you haven't sunk enough
                                > money into it to be frightened into forking out insurance -- than it
                                > appears that the hin doesn't matter. But if you need any of those
                                > things like registration or insurance it becomes an issue.
                                >
                                > For a boat to qualify as home built, it must not be intended for
                                > sale. If it is intended for sale, then the builder is
                                > a "manufacturer". The builder must apply to the feds for a
                                > manufacturer code, which makes up the first part of the hin.
                                >
                                > Home built hin's have a state code followed by the letter z in place
                                > of the manufacturer code -- so the hin identifies the boat as home
                                > built to the assorted agencies who care.
                                >
                                > So anyway, if I do the home built routine for the hin, the boat would
                                > be identified to the insurance folks as home built, which would
                                > contradict what I was telling them about its cost. Since that cost
                                > was high enough that I care quite a bit about insurance, I'm working
                                > with the fellow who built it about him getting a manufacturer's code
                                > so we can do it right. Here's hoping!
                                >
                                > Thanks again,
                                >
                                > Shemaya
                                > glasshouse Chebacco "Auklet"
                                >
                              • ch_bunch
                                I m 98.7% sure the Hull Identification Number (HIN) is required by the Feds. I made a boat last winter and it took me about 3 months this spring/summer to get
                                Message 15 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
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                                  I'm 98.7% sure the Hull Identification Number (HIN) is required by
                                  the Feds. I made a boat last winter and it took me about 3 months
                                  this spring/summer to get through the process in IL. Mostly just
                                  waiting, but I could use my boat as long as I had copies of the
                                  paperwork with me.

                                  I filled out the paperwork for the HIN and the IL registration number
                                  and it was rejected because the decided I needed to be inspected (by
                                  the DNR, I think) not for safety, but to verify that I actually built
                                  the boat and wasn't trying to get a new ID for a found or stolen
                                  boat. The boat cops kept rescheduling on me, but when the guy
                                  finally made it out, he only took a few minutes and was very
                                  complementary towards my boat. I know there are other IL boat
                                  builders who did not have to get inspected. Un-luck of the draw for
                                  me? He gave me some additional paperwork to resubmit with my
                                  original paperwork and I month or so later I got my HIN, my IL
                                  registration number, and a title to the boat. Which made me feel all
                                  official and fuzzy inside. Really.

                                  The HIN needs to be affixed to the boat in a way to make it very
                                  difficult to remove. After several failed ideas, I made a really
                                  thick batch of epoxy and put about a 1/8 inch thick rectangle of it
                                  on the transom and another spot (2nd spot is supposed to be in a
                                  hidden area, but there's not much space that's hidden on my boat).
                                  Then I used a plastic number and letter set from a hobby shop (maybe
                                  $5) meant for making impressions in stepping stones to stamp in the
                                  HIN.

                                  The registration number is the number you see on the bow of most
                                  boats, usually beginning with the state abbreviation. I'm sure the
                                  rules for applying them will come with your notification.

                                  I personally wouldn't buck the system on this.

                                  carl
                                • lancasterdennis
                                  - Well folks, I just registered my Old Shoe last Friday. It was dirt simple here in the State of Washington. I simply had to show receipts of my building
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
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                                    -
                                    Well folks, I just registered my Old Shoe last Friday. It was dirt
                                    simple here in the State of Washington. I simply had to show
                                    receipts of my building materials and what that cost, set a value for
                                    the boat, pay the tax on boat value (tax that is already paid on
                                    materials purchased in state is deducted from the total material
                                    cost). What I received was a State sticker and my HIN number. All I
                                    have to do is buy some number/letter decals, attach to boat and
                                    attach my HIN number. Since my boat is 12ft and outboard is 2hp, I
                                    do not have to license the boat as long as I stay off federal waters.
                                    It was my personal choice to get both. My home owners insurance
                                    covers the boat nicely.

                                    regards,

                                    Dennis
                                    Bellingham, WA.




                                    -- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ch_bunch" <ch_bunch@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I'm 98.7% sure the Hull Identification Number (HIN) is required by
                                    > the Feds. I made a boat last winter and it took me about 3 months
                                    > this spring/summer to get through the process in IL. Mostly just
                                    > waiting, but I could use my boat as long as I had copies of the
                                    > paperwork with me.
                                    >
                                    > I filled out the paperwork for the HIN and the IL registration
                                    number
                                    > and it was rejected because the decided I needed to be inspected
                                    (by
                                    > the DNR, I think) not for safety, but to verify that I actually
                                    built
                                    > the boat and wasn't trying to get a new ID for a found or stolen
                                    > boat. The boat cops kept rescheduling on me, but when the guy
                                    > finally made it out, he only took a few minutes and was very
                                    > complementary towards my boat. I know there are other IL boat
                                    > builders who did not have to get inspected. Un-luck of the draw
                                    for
                                    > me? He gave me some additional paperwork to resubmit with my
                                    > original paperwork and I month or so later I got my HIN, my IL
                                    > registration number, and a title to the boat. Which made me feel
                                    all
                                    > official and fuzzy inside. Really.
                                    >
                                    > The HIN needs to be affixed to the boat in a way to make it very
                                    > difficult to remove. After several failed ideas, I made a really
                                    > thick batch of epoxy and put about a 1/8 inch thick rectangle of it
                                    > on the transom and another spot (2nd spot is supposed to be in a
                                    > hidden area, but there's not much space that's hidden on my boat).
                                    > Then I used a plastic number and letter set from a hobby shop
                                    (maybe
                                    > $5) meant for making impressions in stepping stones to stamp in the
                                    > HIN.
                                    >
                                    > The registration number is the number you see on the bow of most
                                    > boats, usually beginning with the state abbreviation. I'm sure the
                                    > rules for applying them will come with your notification.
                                    >
                                    > I personally wouldn't buck the system on this.
                                    >
                                    > carl
                                    >
                                  • shemayalaurel
                                    Hi Bill, Yeah, if I was the builder I d be all set -- the number comes from the state in that case, even though it s a federal thing. Today, one of the folks
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Nov 17, 2008
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                                      Hi Bill,

                                      Yeah, if I was the builder I'd be all set -- the number comes from
                                      the state in that case, even though it's a federal thing.

                                      Today, one of the folks at the shipyard turned up a connection with a
                                      marine insurance company that isn't worried about the hin, because
                                      they ordinarily insure "classic" boats. So the insurance thing looks
                                      like it'll work out any way around.

                                      But like what Dennis said about his experience, if I go for a home
                                      built hin, and it turns out that Massachusetts wants receipts for
                                      materials, that's not going to work out... so I'm still working on
                                      the builder for a proper manufacturers hin.

                                      But the good news is, now we have a few months for that to work out,
                                      without the boat being trapped in Rhode Island waiting for insurance,
                                      after they finish it in a couple weeks! I'm looking forward to going
                                      to work on the sailing rig hardware installation, and the electrical
                                      system, along with some stray bits of interior carpentry.

                                      Shemaya



                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <kingw@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Shemaya,
                                      > Just to muddy the waters a bit more...
                                      > I got my HIN from the State of Ohio and it designates my Long Micro
                                      > as a homebuilt. My marina requires insurance but my homeowners
                                      policy
                                      > has limited coverage for a boat (technically my LM is covered but
                                      it's
                                      > only for a few thousand dollars, so I didn't want to rely on my
                                      > homeowners policy to cover me).
                                      >
                                      > I got my LM surveyed, then mailed the surveyor's report to Boat US,
                                      > and they wrote a policy. The coverage is decent and the premium is
                                      > reasonable. The hardest part of the process was finding a marine
                                      > surveyor who wasn't terrified of a homebuilt boat. I don't know if
                                      > this helps since someone is building the boat for you, but it may
                                      help
                                      > someone else on the list.
                                      >
                                      > Bill, in Ohio (but formerly of Lowell)
                                      > LM Pugnacious
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "shemayalaurel" <shemayalaurel@>
                                      wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks to everybody for all your thoughts and suggestions on this
                                      > > question! From references offered here, and others that turned
                                      up,
                                      > > it seems that hin is federal, but if the boat is home built that
                                      > > number is provided via the state boating agency. If you don't
                                      need
                                      > > registration or insurance -- if the boat is small enough, no
                                      motor,
                                      > > or whatever applies in a given state -- and you haven't sunk
                                      enough
                                      > > money into it to be frightened into forking out insurance -- than
                                      it
                                      > > appears that the hin doesn't matter. But if you need any of
                                      those
                                      > > things like registration or insurance it becomes an issue.
                                      > >
                                      > > For a boat to qualify as home built, it must not be intended for
                                      > > sale. If it is intended for sale, then the builder is
                                      > > a "manufacturer". The builder must apply to the feds for a
                                      > > manufacturer code, which makes up the first part of the hin.
                                      > >
                                      > > Home built hin's have a state code followed by the letter z in
                                      place
                                      > > of the manufacturer code -- so the hin identifies the boat as
                                      home
                                      > > built to the assorted agencies who care.
                                      > >
                                      > > So anyway, if I do the home built routine for the hin, the boat
                                      would
                                      > > be identified to the insurance folks as home built, which would
                                      > > contradict what I was telling them about its cost. Since that
                                      cost
                                      > > was high enough that I care quite a bit about insurance, I'm
                                      working
                                      > > with the fellow who built it about him getting a manufacturer's
                                      code
                                      > > so we can do it right. Here's hoping!
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks again,
                                      > >
                                      > > Shemaya
                                      > > glasshouse Chebacco "Auklet"
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Phillip Lea
                                      Why heck, that ain t easy. In Arkansas it s easy. Download the form from the internet, send it in with a PICTURE showing that the boat is homemade, and you
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Nov 18, 2008
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                                        Why heck, that ain't easy. In Arkansas it's easy. Download the
                                        form from the internet, send it in with a PICTURE showing that the
                                        boat is homemade, and you get your HID back in the mail in less than
                                        a week. Take the HID to the local DMV, pay $15 for registration and
                                        stick the numbers and HID on the boat. No other TAXES, no
                                        inspections. And the folks at the DMV can arrange the 2-year boat
                                        registration to fall on the same month as the 2-year trailer
                                        registration if you want--if you don't already have the PERMANENT
                                        $36 trailer registration.

                                        My wife Andrea, was just elected to the Arkansas state legislature.
                                        She doesn't know it yet, but she is the pro-boat legislator elect.

                                        Phillip Lea
                                        Russellville, Arkansas

                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "lancasterdennis" <dlancast@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > -
                                        > Well folks, I just registered my Old Shoe last Friday. It was
                                        dirt
                                        > simple here in the State of Washington. I simply had to show
                                        > receipts of my building materials and what that cost, set a value
                                        for
                                        > the boat, pay the tax on boat value (tax that is already paid on
                                        > materials purchased in state is deducted from the total material
                                        > cost). What I received was a State sticker and my HIN number.
                                        All I
                                        > have to do is buy some number/letter decals, attach to boat and
                                        > attach my HIN number. Since my boat is 12ft and outboard is 2hp,
                                        I
                                        > do not have to license the boat as long as I stay off federal
                                        waters.
                                        > It was my personal choice to get both. My home owners insurance
                                        > covers the boat nicely.
                                        >
                                        > regards,
                                        >
                                        > Dennis
                                        > Bellingham, WA.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ch_bunch" <ch_bunch@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > I'm 98.7% sure the Hull Identification Number (HIN) is required
                                        by
                                        > > the Feds. I made a boat last winter and it took me about 3
                                        months
                                        > > this spring/summer to get through the process in IL. Mostly
                                        just
                                        > > waiting, but I could use my boat as long as I had copies of the
                                        > > paperwork with me.
                                        > >
                                        > > I filled out the paperwork for the HIN and the IL registration
                                        > number
                                        > > and it was rejected because the decided I needed to be inspected
                                        > (by
                                        > > the DNR, I think) not for safety, but to verify that I actually
                                        > built
                                        > > the boat and wasn't trying to get a new ID for a found or stolen
                                        > > boat. The boat cops kept rescheduling on me, but when the guy
                                        > > finally made it out, he only took a few minutes and was very
                                        > > complementary towards my boat. I know there are other IL boat
                                        > > builders who did not have to get inspected. Un-luck of the draw
                                        > for
                                        > > me? He gave me some additional paperwork to resubmit with my
                                        > > original paperwork and I month or so later I got my HIN, my IL
                                        > > registration number, and a title to the boat. Which made me
                                        feel
                                        > all
                                        > > official and fuzzy inside. Really.
                                        > >
                                        > > The HIN needs to be affixed to the boat in a way to make it very
                                        > > difficult to remove. After several failed ideas, I made a
                                        really
                                        > > thick batch of epoxy and put about a 1/8 inch thick rectangle of
                                        it
                                        > > on the transom and another spot (2nd spot is supposed to be in a
                                        > > hidden area, but there's not much space that's hidden on my
                                        boat).
                                        > > Then I used a plastic number and letter set from a hobby shop
                                        > (maybe
                                        > > $5) meant for making impressions in stepping stones to stamp in
                                        the
                                        > > HIN.
                                        > >
                                        > > The registration number is the number you see on the bow of most
                                        > > boats, usually beginning with the state abbreviation. I'm sure
                                        the
                                        > > rules for applying them will come with your notification.
                                        > >
                                        > > I personally wouldn't buck the system on this.
                                        > >
                                        > > carl
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Brian Anderson
                                        Big congratulations to your wife on the new job, Phillip. You like cooking? :-) Brian
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Nov 18, 2008
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                                          Big congratulations to your wife on the new job, Phillip. You like
                                          cooking? :-)

                                          Brian

                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Phillip Lea" <phillip_lea@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Why heck, that ain't easy. In Arkansas it's easy. Download the
                                          > form from the internet, send it in with a PICTURE showing that the
                                          > boat is homemade, and you get your HID back in the mail in less than
                                          > a week. Take the HID to the local DMV, pay $15 for registration and
                                          > stick the numbers and HID on the boat. No other TAXES, no
                                          > inspections. And the folks at the DMV can arrange the 2-year boat
                                          > registration to fall on the same month as the 2-year trailer
                                          > registration if you want--if you don't already have the PERMANENT
                                          > $36 trailer registration.
                                          >
                                          > My wife Andrea, was just elected to the Arkansas state legislature.
                                          > She doesn't know it yet, but she is the pro-boat legislator elect.
                                          >
                                          > Phillip Lea
                                          > Russellville, Arkansas
                                          >
                                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "lancasterdennis" <dlancast@>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > -
                                          > > Well folks, I just registered my Old Shoe last Friday. It was
                                          > dirt
                                          > > simple here in the State of Washington. I simply had to show
                                          > > receipts of my building materials and what that cost, set a value
                                          > for
                                          > > the boat, pay the tax on boat value (tax that is already paid on
                                          > > materials purchased in state is deducted from the total material
                                          > > cost). What I received was a State sticker and my HIN number.
                                          > All I
                                          > > have to do is buy some number/letter decals, attach to boat and
                                          > > attach my HIN number. Since my boat is 12ft and outboard is 2hp,
                                          > I
                                          > > do not have to license the boat as long as I stay off federal
                                          > waters.
                                          > > It was my personal choice to get both. My home owners insurance
                                          > > covers the boat nicely.
                                          > >
                                          > > regards,
                                          > >
                                          > > Dennis
                                          > > Bellingham, WA.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > -- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ch_bunch" <ch_bunch@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I'm 98.7% sure the Hull Identification Number (HIN) is required
                                          > by
                                          > > > the Feds. I made a boat last winter and it took me about 3
                                          > months
                                          > > > this spring/summer to get through the process in IL. Mostly
                                          > just
                                          > > > waiting, but I could use my boat as long as I had copies of the
                                          > > > paperwork with me.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I filled out the paperwork for the HIN and the IL registration
                                          > > number
                                          > > > and it was rejected because the decided I needed to be inspected
                                          > > (by
                                          > > > the DNR, I think) not for safety, but to verify that I actually
                                          > > built
                                          > > > the boat and wasn't trying to get a new ID for a found or stolen
                                          > > > boat. The boat cops kept rescheduling on me, but when the guy
                                          > > > finally made it out, he only took a few minutes and was very
                                          > > > complementary towards my boat. I know there are other IL boat
                                          > > > builders who did not have to get inspected. Un-luck of the draw
                                          > > for
                                          > > > me? He gave me some additional paperwork to resubmit with my
                                          > > > original paperwork and I month or so later I got my HIN, my IL
                                          > > > registration number, and a title to the boat. Which made me
                                          > feel
                                          > > all
                                          > > > official and fuzzy inside. Really.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The HIN needs to be affixed to the boat in a way to make it very
                                          > > > difficult to remove. After several failed ideas, I made a
                                          > really
                                          > > > thick batch of epoxy and put about a 1/8 inch thick rectangle of
                                          > it
                                          > > > on the transom and another spot (2nd spot is supposed to be in a
                                          > > > hidden area, but there's not much space that's hidden on my
                                          > boat).
                                          > > > Then I used a plastic number and letter set from a hobby shop
                                          > > (maybe
                                          > > > $5) meant for making impressions in stepping stones to stamp in
                                          > the
                                          > > > HIN.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The registration number is the number you see on the bow of most
                                          > > > boats, usually beginning with the state abbreviation. I'm sure
                                          > the
                                          > > > rules for applying them will come with your notification.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I personally wouldn't buck the system on this.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > carl
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Chester Young
                                          Phillip: In today s world if a person is not political about their passions, the rules will very likely eliminate the object of their passion for them.
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Nov 19, 2008
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                                            Phillip:



                                            In today's world if a person is not political about their passions, the
                                            rules will very likely eliminate the object of their passion for them.
                                            Congratulations on being part of the active pro-boating sector of the
                                            population.



                                            Caloosarat



                                            _____

                                            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                            Phillip Lea
                                            Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:09 PM
                                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [bolger] Re: Hull ID for custom-built boat procedure?



                                            Why heck, that ain't easy. In Arkansas it's easy. Download the
                                            form from the internet, send it in with a PICTURE showing that the
                                            boat is homemade, and you get your HID back in the mail in less than
                                            a week. Take the HID to the local DMV, pay $15 for registration and
                                            stick the numbers and HID on the boat. No other TAXES, no
                                            inspections. And the folks at the DMV can arrange the 2-year boat
                                            registration to fall on the same month as the 2-year trailer
                                            registration if you want--if you don't already have the PERMANENT
                                            $36 trailer registration.

                                            My wife Andrea, was just elected to the Arkansas state legislature.
                                            She doesn't know it yet, but she is the pro-boat legislator elect.

                                            Phillip Lea
                                            Russellville, Arkansas

                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
                                            "lancasterdennis" <dlancast@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > -
                                            > Well folks, I just registered my Old Shoe last Friday. It was
                                            dirt
                                            > simple here in the State of Washington. I simply had to show
                                            > receipts of my building materials and what that cost, set a value
                                            for
                                            > the boat, pay the tax on boat value (tax that is already paid on
                                            > materials purchased in state is deducted from the total material
                                            > cost). What I received was a State sticker and my HIN number.
                                            All I
                                            > have to do is buy some number/letter decals, attach to boat and
                                            > attach my HIN number. Since my boat is 12ft and outboard is 2hp,
                                            I
                                            > do not have to license the boat as long as I stay off federal
                                            waters.
                                            > It was my personal choice to get both. My home owners insurance
                                            > covers the boat nicely.
                                            >
                                            > regards,
                                            >
                                            > Dennis
                                            > Bellingham, WA.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
                                            "ch_bunch" <ch_bunch@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > I'm 98.7% sure the Hull Identification Number (HIN) is required
                                            by
                                            > > the Feds. I made a boat last winter and it took me about 3
                                            months
                                            > > this spring/summer to get through the process in IL. Mostly
                                            just
                                            > > waiting, but I could use my boat as long as I had copies of the
                                            > > paperwork with me.
                                            > >
                                            > > I filled out the paperwork for the HIN and the IL registration
                                            > number
                                            > > and it was rejected because the decided I needed to be inspected
                                            > (by
                                            > > the DNR, I think) not for safety, but to verify that I actually
                                            > built
                                            > > the boat and wasn't trying to get a new ID for a found or stolen
                                            > > boat. The boat cops kept rescheduling on me, but when the guy
                                            > > finally made it out, he only took a few minutes and was very
                                            > > complementary towards my boat. I know there are other IL boat
                                            > > builders who did not have to get inspected. Un-luck of the draw
                                            > for
                                            > > me? He gave me some additional paperwork to resubmit with my
                                            > > original paperwork and I month or so later I got my HIN, my IL
                                            > > registration number, and a title to the boat. Which made me
                                            feel
                                            > all
                                            > > official and fuzzy inside. Really.
                                            > >
                                            > > The HIN needs to be affixed to the boat in a way to make it very
                                            > > difficult to remove. After several failed ideas, I made a
                                            really
                                            > > thick batch of epoxy and put about a 1/8 inch thick rectangle of
                                            it
                                            > > on the transom and another spot (2nd spot is supposed to be in a
                                            > > hidden area, but there's not much space that's hidden on my
                                            boat).
                                            > > Then I used a plastic number and letter set from a hobby shop
                                            > (maybe
                                            > > $5) meant for making impressions in stepping stones to stamp in
                                            the
                                            > > HIN.
                                            > >
                                            > > The registration number is the number you see on the bow of most
                                            > > boats, usually beginning with the state abbreviation. I'm sure
                                            the
                                            > > rules for applying them will come with your notification.
                                            > >
                                            > > I personally wouldn't buck the system on this.
                                            > >
                                            > > carl
                                            > >
                                            >





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Roger Padvorac
                                            Thanks so much Dennis for mentioning they check the receipts for material when you register your home built boat in Washington state, and then deduct the sales
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Nov 19, 2008
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                                              Thanks so much Dennis for mentioning they check the receipts for material when you register your home built boat in Washington state, and then deduct the sales tax from the usage tax. I don't normally save my sales receipts for building projects, and the boat I'm thinking of building is short enough that it won't require a registration.

                                              Now that I think about that, if I don't permanently save all the receipts for the boat, and change my mind later and decide to register the boat anyway, or some official says the boat should have been registered anyway for some reason, I'd end up paying the sales tax twice if I don't keep and store all the receipts from building and outfitting the boat.

                                              The sales tax where I live is 9%, and paying 9% twice on a $1,000 of materials and rigging would be really painful.

                                              The need to save boat construction receipts for home built boats is likely an issue in most jurisdictions that charge sales tax.

                                              May your day be filled with clarity, grace, strength, progress, and warm laughter,
                                              Roger

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "lancasterdennis" <dlancast@...>
                                              To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:38 AM
                                              Subject: [bolger] Re: Hull ID for custom-built boat procedure?


                                              > -
                                              > Well folks, I just registered my Old Shoe last Friday. It was dirt
                                              > simple here in the State of Washington.

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • james caldwell
                                              ... I never registered my Wisp and for 20 years the only person to catch it was a fellow boater from MN - not the NPS or CG. I did register my Wish II but
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Nov 26, 2008
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                                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parkes <icusa98@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Are you kidding? Don't register the boat...ever!
                                                > I've never registered my Dovekie (or any other boat
                                                > I've built)anywhere and don't intend to. I know you
                                                > Massachusetts types love your taxes, but I never
                                                > dreamed you'd actually seek them out.
                                                >
                                                I never registered my Wisp and for 20 years the only person to catch it
                                                was a fellow boater from MN - not the NPS or CG.
                                                I did register my Wish II but never put the numbers on and never got
                                                called on it by CG, Sherrifs or ACE from WI to LA including some real
                                                close looks by the all, including close approach by the pursuit CG when
                                                we towing a power boat with a dead engine!!
                                                This is all presumtuous however, so if you plan to go any farther than
                                                local, please register or you may get some real trouble if someone
                                                pressed the issue !!!
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