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[bolger] Light Scooner X 2?

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  • david@crumblingempire.com
    The teal in nearly done. I ve got a spit coat of white paint drying overnight, and a pot of red paint to finish her off. Maiden voyage is going to be a crab
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 25 5:25 PM
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      The teal in nearly done. I've got a spit coat of white paint drying
      overnight, and a pot of red paint to finish her off. Maiden voyage is
      going to be a crab killing mission on Georgica pond just as soon as the
      paint dries.

      After today's primer coat on the teal, we headed of to Napigue Harbor
      to kill some clams and my thought headed in the direction of the Light
      Scooner. For some reason, I can't ge the idea of doubling the
      dimentions out of my head, (if a 23.5 foot scooner is good, a 47 footer
      is twice as good!)

      My initial and rather simple minded thought is double everything. 1/2
      inch plywood, 2x2 inch chine logs, etc. However, the more cautious
      parts of my brain tell me that this would either be wildly over-built,
      or wildly under-built. For example, it seems that some extra bulkhead
      would be in order, and perhaps a little less canvas.

      If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them; especially
      those based on experience and/or expertise, (I've have access to a
      bountiful supply of beer fuel speculation.)

      TIA,

      David Ryan

      P.S. Carpentry is fun, finishing sucks!
    • G Carlson
      Hi David, Widlly underbuilt, for the same reason that elephant s legs are almost as fat as they are long and ants can pick up things many times larger than
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 25 7:58 PM
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        Hi David,

        Widlly underbuilt, for the same reason that elephant's legs are almost as
        fat as they are long and ants can pick up things many times larger than
        themselves but, luckily, can't grow as tall as buildings. 3-dimensional
        things grow as a cubic even when any single dimension grows linearly.

        So, for example, double a 1 foot boat to 2 feet: your volume has increased
        8-fold, from 1 ft3 to 8 ft3! Your 52' light schooner might go from 500
        pounds to 5000 - can't imagine something the mass of Surburan held together
        with 2x2's!
        Yikes!

        Gregg Carlson


        >My initial and rather simple minded thought is double everything. 1/2
        >inch plywood, 2x2 inch chine logs, etc. However, the more cautious
        >parts of my brain tell me that this would either be wildly over-built,
        >or wildly under-built. For example, it seems that some extra bulkhead
        >would be in order, and perhaps a little less canvas.
        >
        >If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them; especially
        >those based on experience and/or expertise, (I've have access to a
        >bountiful supply of beer fuel speculation.)
      • plea@entergy.com
        David, A rule of thumb is lengthen or shorten a boat by no more than 10% -- otherwise you need another design. The original designer may not be disposed to
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 26 6:08 AM
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          David,

          A rule of thumb is lengthen or shorten a boat by no more than 10% --
          otherwise you need another design. The original designer may not be
          disposed to lengthen one of his boats, and prefer to create a new boat.
          If choosing to lengthen a design, I would stick to the 10% change, and
          try to involve the designer. If he is unable to help, minimize the
          risk of disappointing results -- study yacht/boat design books (lots
          out there) and try something small in time and money.

          Phil Lea
          Russellville, AR.
          Building a modified June Bug

          <7ng9tt$q87-@egroups.com> wrote:
          original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=59
          > The teal in nearly done. I've got a spit coat of white paint drying
          > overnight, and a pot of red paint to finish her off. Maiden voyage is
          > going to be a crab killing mission on Georgica pond just as soon as
          the
          > paint dries.
          >
          > After today's primer coat on the teal, we headed of to Napigue Harbor
          > to kill some clams and my thought headed in the direction of the Light
          > Scooner. For some reason, I can't ge the idea of doubling the
          > dimentions out of my head, (if a 23.5 foot scooner is good, a 47
          footer
          > is twice as good!)
          >
          > My initial and rather simple minded thought is double everything. 1/2
          > inch plywood, 2x2 inch chine logs, etc. However, the more cautious
          > parts of my brain tell me that this would either be wildly over-built,
          > or wildly under-built. For example, it seems that some extra bulkhead
          > would be in order, and perhaps a little less canvas.
          >
          > If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them; especially
          > those based on experience and/or expertise, (I've have access to a
          > bountiful supply of beer fuel speculation.)
          >
          > TIA,
          >
          > David Ryan
          >
          > P.S. Carpentry is fun, finishing sucks!
          >
          >
          >
        • Richard Spelling
          As others have pointed out, it doesn t quite scale that way. Have you considered the Folding Schooner? It s 32ft long and was designed to be that way. You
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 26 6:34 AM
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            As others have pointed out, it doesn't quite scale that way.

            Have you considered the Folding Schooner? It's 32ft long and was designed to be
            that way. You could probably strectch it to be 36 or so, and still fit it on a
            small trailer.

            G Carlson wrote:

            > Hi David,
            >
            > Widlly underbuilt, for the same reason that elephant's legs are almost as
            > fat as they are long and ants can pick up things many times larger than
            > themselves but, luckily, can't grow as tall as buildings. 3-dimensional
            > things grow as a cubic even when any single dimension grows linearly.
            >
            > So, for example, double a 1 foot boat to 2 feet: your volume has increased
            > 8-fold, from 1 ft3 to 8 ft3! Your 52' light schooner might go from 500
            > pounds to 5000 - can't imagine something the mass of Surburan held together
            > with 2x2's!
            > Yikes!
            >
            > Gregg Carlson
            >
            > >My initial and rather simple minded thought is double everything. 1/2
            > >inch plywood, 2x2 inch chine logs, etc. However, the more cautious
            > >parts of my brain tell me that this would either be wildly over-built,
            > >or wildly under-built. For example, it seems that some extra bulkhead
            > >would be in order, and perhaps a little less canvas.
            > >
            > >If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them; especially
            > >those based on experience and/or expertise, (I've have access to a
            > >bountiful supply of beer fuel speculation.)
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.
            > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/552
            >
            > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
            > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
          • david@crumblingempire.com
            The crabs got a reprieve today. It s been very humid so I spent the day waiting for my teal s paint to dry and casting about the Montauk boat building
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 26 8:59 PM
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              The crabs got a reprieve today. It's been very humid so I spent the day
              waiting for my teal's paint to dry and casting about the Montauk boat
              building community, Light Scooner plans in hand. Heres a smattering of
              thought on "Doubling the Scooner" from a few guys who make boats for a
              living (and a few who don't.)

              1: If you make her, DON'T take her offshore. Even if the boat didn't
              fall apart, the flat bottom would give you a terible pounding.

              2: She'd be great for cruising the sound, as long as you had one eye on
              the weather, (pounding from the flat bottom, knock downs, total failure
              of the hull and/or rigging, etc.)

              3: Most of the strength in any hull like this one comes from how hard
              it is to bend plywood along the flat axis, i.e. a rectanglular piece of
              plywood is hard to make into a paralellagram. The sticks (chines,
              gunnells, stringers) mostly encourage the plywood to stay in a hard to
              deflect orientation. 1/4 would probably be sufficient, provided it's
              backed up by bigger sticks and/or more sticks. (Two camps seemed to
              develop, one favoring 4x4's (just to be on the safe side), the other a
              more modest size increase, but adding more runners along the sides, top
              and bottom to match the maximum spans allowed in the original design.)

              4: The sail/balast/keel combination seems to be the most thorny issue.
              Dynamic balasting by the crew might be fun on a 23.5 footer, but simply
              gathering sufficient crew, (let alone choreographing them,) to keep a
              47 (with four times the sail area,) flat is obviouly not the right
              solution. This leads to the thought of a balasted keel; and this, along
              with trying to keep the masts from being broken or blown off leads to a
              cascading series of off reenforments that move the whole project out of
              the realm of a pirate ship you can build in your yard. A better thought
              is less canvas, but how much less is the big question. Start with the
              original rig and work up? If you build the dagger board(s) around a
              steel center, maybe you could carry a little more, but now we're
              reenforcing the trunk...it's a slippery slope.

              All and all, guys we're in favor of the idea. After all, it's not their
              time, money, or life. I'm sure as long as I had beer in the fridge I'd
              have plenty of help. How do get epoxy to set in 20-30 degree weather?

              The wind is suppose to be NW tomorrow, and as soon as the paint dries,
              the crabs' reprieve is up. If you're in the neighborhood, we stop by.
              We should have plenty.

              Best,

              David Ryan





              > Widlly underbuilt, for the same reason that elephant's legs are
              almost as
              > fat as they are long and ants can pick up things many times larger
              than
              > themselves but, luckily, can't grow as tall as buildings.
              3-dimensional
              > things grow as a cubic even when any single dimension grows linearly.
              >
              > So, for example, double a 1 foot boat to 2 feet: your volume has
              increased
              > 8-fold, from 1 ft3 to 8 ft3! Your 52' light schooner might go from
              500
              > pounds to 5000 - can't imagine something the mass of Surburan held
              together
              > with 2x2's!
              > Yikes!
              >
              > Gregg Carlson
              >
              >
              > >My initial and rather simple minded thought is double everything. 1/2
              > >inch plywood, 2x2 inch chine logs, etc. However, the more cautious
              > >parts of my brain tell me that this would either be wildly
              over-built,
              > >or wildly under-built. For example, it seems that some extra bulkhead
              > >would be in order, and perhaps a little less canvas.
              > >
              > >If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them; especially
              > >those based on experience and/or expertise, (I've have access to a
              > >bountiful supply of beer fuel speculation.)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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