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Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please

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  • andrew_kieren
    My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all looking nautical . I
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 5, 2008
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      My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
      case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
      looking "nautical".

      I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
      are.
      1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
      2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
      fixed to or semicircular cross sections
      3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
      so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
      4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
      ply built up with epoxy

      I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.

      Andrew

      P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.
    • Kathy Kreamer
      FWIW, etc. Plywood is not real good for rub rails because of exposed end grain. Run a boat-length 2x4 through the table saw to get 3/8 or 1/2 strips, 1-1/2
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 5, 2008
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        FWIW, etc.

        Plywood is not real good for rub rails because of exposed end grain. Run a
        boat-length 2x4 through the table saw to get 3/8" or 1/2" strips, 1-1/2"
        wide. And maybe do a seventh piece, to split into square-section battens to
        cap the raw edges of the plywood sides. For the rub rails, laminate 3
        layers, on the outside. Later, add a bit of rail on the inside where you
        want to put oarlocks. The rail tops can be perpendicular to the sides, but
        making at least a slight slope to the outside.

        Make a bunch of clamps from 6" plywood squares & shims. Clamp it all up at
        once, and use small brads to prevent the strips from slipping. After six
        hours, pull out the brads that show on the outside. Grind everything smooth
        and round the corners. On pointy boats, dub off the bow to cover with a
        false stem piece. It goes together pretty quick once you get going.

        -Bill

        _____

        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        andrew_kieren
        Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:05 AM
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please



        My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
        case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
        looking "nautical".

        I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
        are.
        1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
        2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
        fixed to or semicircular cross sections
        3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
        so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
        4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
        ply built up with epoxy

        I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.

        Andrew

        P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... Much easier to rip a long 2x using a ripping guide on a portable circular saw. http://www.hallman.org/roar/Ripping.jpg http://www.arro.ie/32443.jpg
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 5, 2008
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          > Run a boat-length 2x4 through the table saw

          Much easier to rip a long 2x using a ripping guide on a portable circular saw.


          http://www.hallman.org/roar/Ripping.jpg
          http://www.arro.ie/32443.jpg
          http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/6/Skil-Power-Tools-95100-rw-94877-160482.jpg
          http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE2-984037reg.jpg



          I think I first learned about this trick from Dyanmite Payson,
          bringing the tool to the wood is easier than bringing the wood to the
          tool.
        • Brian Anderson
          If you are actually going to cartop the boat, then planing/sanding the gunwales level across the boat would be a good idea as they would then have a broader
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 5, 2008
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            If you are actually going to cartop the boat, then planing/sanding the
            gunwales level across the boat would be a good idea as they would then
            have a broader surface in contact with the roof rack (or if you
            transport it right-side-up, would be less likely to chafe the straps)
            and would be less likely to get dinged up during transport.

            I really like the looks of gunwales with an outside strip, hull,
            inside spacers and then an inside strip. It doesn't take a lot more
            time, adds some strength, and adds a lot to the looks of the boat. The
            spaces also are useful to tie stuff down, rig cargo nets, and whatnot.

            I would also suggest solid wood as opposed to plywood.

            I just finished a little one-man decked double paddle canoe in spruce
            and used the spaced gunwales. Weather and moving house has prevented
            me from the first splash, but a couple of neighbors have seen her, and
            the first and last comments are always the gunwales...

            Cheers, Brian

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "andrew_kieren" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
            >
            > My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
            > case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
            > looking "nautical".
            >
            > I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
            > are.
            > 1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
            > 2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
            > fixed to or semicircular cross sections
            > 3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
            > so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
            > 4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
            > ply built up with epoxy
            >
            > I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.
            >
            > Andrew
            >
            > P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.
            >
          • John and Kathy Trussell
            If you don t have a table saw or a big enough space to rip an 8 ft piece of wood, you can obtain good results with a rip fence attached to a skil saw. You can
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 5, 2008
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              If you don't have a table saw or a big enough space to rip an 8 ft piece of
              wood, you can obtain good results with a rip fence attached to a skil saw.
              You can also make up a jig with 2 levels-one to hold the work and the other
              to guide the base of the skil saw. This will enable you to make several 7
              to 1 cuts accurately and quickly.



              I find that a table saw is not particularly useful in boat building,
              primarily because so many boat pieces are big, floppy, unwieldy, and often
              heavy. Running work like this over a table saw, particularly in confined
              spaces scares me. I am much more comfortable using hand tools on stationary
              work which is stable and supported by a pair of saw horses. In addition,
              good quality power hand tools (my 'skil saw' is a Porter Cable worm drive)
              cost a fraction of the cost of mediocre stationary tools, and I think that
              the hand tool alternative is the best for most folks. Now if you have a 2000
              square foot shop and a large budget for stationary tools, my objections lose
              much of their logic.



              JohnT



              _____

              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Kathy Kreamer
              Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:33 AM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please



              FWIW, etc.

              Plywood is not real good for rub rails because of exposed end grain. Run a
              boat-length 2x4 through the table saw to get 3/8" or 1/2" strips, 1-1/2"
              wide. And maybe do a seventh piece, to split into square-section battens to
              cap the raw edges of the plywood sides. For the rub rails, laminate 3
              layers, on the outside. Later, add a bit of rail on the inside where you
              want to put oarlocks. The rail tops can be perpendicular to the sides, but
              making at least a slight slope to the outside.

              Make a bunch of clamps from 6" plywood squares & shims. Clamp it all up at
              once, and use small brads to prevent the strips from slipping. After six
              hours, pull out the brads that show on the outside. Grind everything smooth
              and round the corners. On pointy boats, dub off the bow to cover with a
              false stem piece. It goes together pretty quick once you get going.

              -Bill

              _____

              From: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
              [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
              Of
              andrew_kieren
              Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:05 AM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
              Subject: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please

              My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
              case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
              looking "nautical".

              I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
              are.
              1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
              2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
              fixed to or semicircular cross sections
              3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
              so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
              4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
              ply built up with epoxy

              I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.

              Andrew

              P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • welshman@ptialaska.net
              I think this is more a personal preference thing Bruce. I am blessed with a large and very well equipped boatshop and if I am going to rip anything for finish
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 5, 2008
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                I think this is more a personal preference thing Bruce. I am blessed with a large
                and very well equipped boatshop and if I am going to rip anything for finish work
                then it will be on the table saw.

                That being said many don't have a full sized stationary pro table saw table saw and
                a good skill saw can do a lot with guides and a mashita blade.

                HJ


                Run a boat-length 2x4 through the table saw
                >
                > Much easier to rip a long 2x using a ripping guide on a portable circular saw.
                >
                >
                > http://www.hallman.org/roar/Ripping.jpg
                > http://www.arro.ie/32443.jpg
                > http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/6/Skil-Power-Tools-95100-rw-94877-160482.jpg
                > http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE2-984037reg.jpg
                >
                >
                >
                > I think I first learned about this trick from Dyanmite Payson,
                > bringing the tool to the wood is easier than bringing the wood to the
                > tool.
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
                > 282-1349
                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups
                > Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Bruce Hallman
                I do own and use a table saw, but I tend to use more for precision angle cross cuts, in the mode advocated by Fred Bingham (with his SLAT , sliding auxiliary
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 5, 2008
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                  I do own and use a table saw, but I tend to use more for precision
                  angle cross cuts, in the mode advocated by Fred Bingham (with his
                  "SLAT", sliding auxiliary table).


                  http://books.google.com/books?id=W3ttLw5z9ywC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=sliding+auxiliary+table&source=web&ots=QcelNzs1qT&sig=P4VriDDCSLQusYu82MT2ERq11xI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result
                • titanicslim
                  There s another aspect to this here operation and that s required space/available space. I m always building one that s just a little too big for my
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 5, 2008
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                    There's another aspect to this here operation and that's required
                    space/available space. I'm always building one that's just a little
                    too big for my facilities and therefore am addicted to portable buzz
                    saws. Don't they eat up some batteries, though?

                    Dave

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, welshman@... wrote:
                    >
                    > I think this is more a personal preference thing Bruce. I am blessed
                    with a large
                    > and very well equipped boatshop and if I am going to rip anything
                    for finish work
                    > then it will be on the table saw.
                    >
                    > That being said many don't have a full sized stationary pro table
                    saw table saw and
                    > a good skill saw can do a lot with guides and a mashita blade.
                    >
                    > HJ
                    >
                    >
                    > Run a boat-length 2x4 through the table saw
                    > >
                    > > Much easier to rip a long 2x using a ripping guide on a portable
                    circular saw.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > http://www.hallman.org/roar/Ripping.jpg
                    > > http://www.arro.ie/32443.jpg
                    > >
                    http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/6/Skil-Power-Tools-95100-rw-94877-160482.jpg
                    > > http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE2-984037reg.jpg
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I think I first learned about this trick from Dyanmite Payson,
                    > > bringing the tool to the wood is easier than bringing the wood to the
                    > > tool.
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Bolger rules!!!
                    > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                    > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
                    dead horses
                    > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
                    posts
                    > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                    > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                    01930, Fax: (978)
                    > > 282-1349
                    > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups
                    > > Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • .Randy Powell
                    Solid wood and spacers look very nice and offer lots of advantages. The spacers look great if they have a concave profile on the ends. To do this start with a
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 5, 2008
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                      Solid wood and spacers look very nice and offer lots of advantages. The spacers look great if they have a concave profile on the ends. To do this start with a block of wood 1/2" taller than your finished spacer size and about 1 1/2'' thick and 4 or 5 " long. Cut a slot in the bottom so the spacer just  passes through, then bore a3/8" hole from the top down about 1/2'' in from the end. Cut your spacer strips to a size easy to handle about 24" long. Clamp the block to your drill press lining up the hole with the 3/8" Forcener bit in the chuck. Slid the strip in and drill down near the end to create the concave end, push the strip through about 11/2' to 3" and drill again, and out pops a nice unit with 2 concave ends, repeat many times. Make up some clamps from 11/2" to 3" black plastic plumping pipe cut into 1" pieces with a slot cut through them length wise so you can squeeze them over the hull and gunwales. Different sized cuts in clamps allow for
                      different clamping pressure, have fun
                      Randy 


                      ________________________________
                      From: andrew_kieren <a.c.l.yen@...>
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2008 9:04:44 AM
                      Subject: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please


                      My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
                      case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
                      looking "nautical".

                      I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
                      are.
                      1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
                      2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
                      fixed to or semicircular cross sections
                      3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
                      so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
                      4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
                      ply built up with epoxy

                      I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.

                      Andrew

                      P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.




                      __________________________________________________________________
                      Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
                      http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Brian Anderson
                      One other (maybe obvious) trick is to take the time to lay out the spacers around any other things that are or will be on the gunwales. Ribs, oarlocks,
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 6, 2008
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                        One other (maybe obvious) trick is to take the time to lay out the
                        spacers around any other things that are or will be on the gunwales.
                        Ribs, oarlocks, thwarts, etc. can foul things up. It is also a good
                        idea to work both sides the same way - both aft, forward, or forward, aft.

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Solid wood and spacers look very nice and offer lots of advantages.
                        The spacers look great if they have a concave profile on the ends. To
                        do this start with a block of wood 1/2" taller than your finished
                        spacer size and about 1 1/2'' thick and 4 or 5 " long. Cut a slot in
                        the bottom so the spacer just �passes through, then bore a3/8" hole
                        from the top down about 1/2'' in from the end. Cut your spacer strips
                        to a size easy to handle about 24" long. Clamp the block to your drill
                        press lining up the hole with the 3/8" Forcener bit in the chuck. Slid
                        the strip in and drill down near the end to create the concave end,
                        push the strip through�about 11/2' to 3" and drill again, and out pops
                        a nice unit with 2 concave ends, repeat many times. Make up some
                        clamps from�11/2" to 3" black plastic plumping pipe cut into 1" pieces
                        with a slot cut through them length wise so you can squeeze them over
                        the hull and gunwales. Different sized cuts in clamps allow for
                        > different clamping pressure, have fun
                        > Randy�
                        >
                        >
                      • andrew_kieren
                        Great! thanks there are some really good ideas here. Now what about the ideal dimensions of a gunwale for a cartopper? Bill s post suggests to me 1/2 by 1
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 6, 2008
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                          Great! thanks there are some really good ideas here.

                          Now what about the ideal dimensions of a gunwale for a cartopper?

                          Bill's post suggests to me 1/2" by 1 1/2" strips inside and out. Does
                          that become 1/2" plus 1/2" spacer inside and 1/2" outside? That would
                          be a total of 1 3/4" including the 1/4" ply side.

                          Regards,

                          Andrew
                        • Brian Anderson
                          I used 3/8 (9mm) strips and spacers, which I think worked out really well, so I would imagine, proportionally, 1/2 would work well with the car topper.
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 6, 2008
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                            I used 3/8" (9mm) strips and spacers, which I think worked out really
                            well, so I would imagine, proportionally, 1/2" would work well with
                            the car topper.

                            Cheers, Brian


                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "andrew_kieren" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Great! thanks there are some really good ideas here.
                            >
                            > Now what about the ideal dimensions of a gunwale for a cartopper?
                            >
                            > Bill's post suggests to me 1/2" by 1 1/2" strips inside and out. Does
                            > that become 1/2" plus 1/2" spacer inside and 1/2" outside? That would
                            > be a total of 1 3/4" including the 1/4" ply side.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            >
                            > Andrew
                            >
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