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Re: [bolger] PT decking?

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  • Giuliano Girometta
    Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure because i never seen
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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      Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year old building.
      The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone expert in woods.
      The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the real one.
      The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain fast growing threes.
      The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use such wood.
      In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for white oak.
      I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin Unsanctioned.
      I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum.
      About epoxy and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most  commonly found at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
       
      Giuliano 

      --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:

      From: Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...>
      Subject: Re: [bolger] PT decking?
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 9:02 PM






      If you live in the north, the pressure treated wood you get could be Red
      Pine (pinus resinosa, also called Norway Pine). This is lighter than SYP and
      nearly as strong as Douglas Fir. It takes pressure treating beautifully and
      doesn't need holes poked into it, like White Pine. Red Pine is an extremely
      tough wood. My logger friend says you can skid a log and wrap it around a
      tree and it won't break.

      Fred Schumacher

      On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:33 PM, dnjost <davidjost@verizon. net> wrote:

      > While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
      > treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
      > chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
      > epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
      >
      > Has anyone tried this?
      >
      > David Jost
      > "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
      Let me try to get this across again. In just the last few years they changed the chemistry by federal law for PT lumber. Old and new chemistry reacted with
      Message 2 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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        Let me try to get this across again. In just the last few years they
        changed the chemistry by federal law for PT lumber. Old and new
        chemistry reacted with glue bonding of any type and the new with most
        fasteners. Both chemistrys cycle salts to the surface with moisture
        content changes.

        MDO is great for boat building if it is a good grade of MDO good thing
        to check on. Exterior ply has notmaly thicker iner plys and thinner
        surface plyes. Marine has typicaly even thickness plys no voids on iner
        plys more plys for thickness and more of the same glue. MDO of a good
        grade will have even thickness iner plys a thin outer ply and the
        overlay good cores and even more of the same glue as marine. HDO is
        like MDO but the overlay is harder smoth and bonds poorly.
      • Chris Crandall
        Guiliano: What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf pine can
        Message 3 of 29 , Oct 2, 2008
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          Guiliano:

          What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many
          different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf
          pine can be categorized as SYP, and old-growth longleaf pine is a real
          treasure of a wood. Save it and use it wisely. It will take epoxy.

          Modern SYP is less good, and modern longleaf pine tends to be less good,
          too, in part because it is induced, as you say, to grow more quickly.
          This is part genetic, and part the way it is treated by foresters. The
          same is true these days with Douglas firin the opposite part of the
          country. The old growth stuff is amazing, the new stuff is pretty OK.



          > Posted by: "Giuliano Girometta" ggboat1@... ggboat1 Date: Wed
          > Oct 1, 2008 7:49 pm ((PDT))
          >
          > Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year
          > old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure
          > because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone
          > expert in woods. The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the
          > real one. The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different
          > because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain
          > fast growing threes. The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant
          > that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw
          > blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use
          > such wood. In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for
          > white oak. I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin
          > Unsanctioned. I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the
          > major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during
          > WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels
          > constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years
          > ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum. About epoxy
          > and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the
          > US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the
          > treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most commonly found
          > at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return
          > to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
          >
          > Giuliano
        • Giuliano Girometta
          Thank you for the correction. This is what I was meaning but I forgot to type correctly and I omit the world longleaf . That wood is like gold for me, is nice
          Message 4 of 29 , Oct 2, 2008
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            Thank you for the correction. This is what I was meaning but I forgot to type correctly and I omit the world "longleaf".
            That wood is like gold for me, is nice straight grained and was left for 85 years in a perfect enviroment (the attic of a Sunday School building at my church and the roof was always keept in good leak proof conditions since the construction). I wish there was more time to salvage more lumber but someone donated the money for the disposal containers and for the buldozzer so all went very quick and I got only one day to salvage the most I can, while all the remaining went in splinters max 24" long the very next day. (Really very sad to loose so much good wood) Unfortunatly the environmentalist found some traces of asbestos in the joint compound on the sheetrock and therefore the manual demolition was going to be extremely expensive if done by a contractor.
            I removed as much material I can with the help of two friends but at a certain point we were forced to leave the building in a hurry when we feel the ceiling dropping down about five inches under our feet.
             
            Giuliano

            --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:

            From: Chris Crandall <crandall@...>
            Subject: [bolger] Re: Re: PT decking?
            To: "No Reply" <notify-dg-bolger@yahoogroups.com>
            Cc: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 8:53 PM






            Guiliano:

            What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many
            different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf
            pine can be categorized as SYP, and old-growth longleaf pine is a real
            treasure of a wood. Save it and use it wisely. It will take epoxy.

            Modern SYP is less good, and modern longleaf pine tends to be less good,
            too, in part because it is induced, as you say, to grow more quickly.
            This is part genetic, and part the way it is treated by foresters. The
            same is true these days with Douglas firin the opposite part of the
            country. The old growth stuff is amazing, the new stuff is pretty OK.

            > Posted by: "Giuliano Girometta" ggboat1@yahoo. com ggboat1 Date: Wed
            > Oct 1, 2008 7:49 pm ((PDT))
            >
            > Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year
            > old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure
            > because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone
            > expert in woods. The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the
            > real one. The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different
            > because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain
            > fast growing threes. The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant
            > that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw
            > blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use
            > such wood. In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for
            > white oak. I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin
            > Unsanctioned. I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the
            > major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during
            > WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels
            > constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years
            > ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum. About epoxy
            > and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the
            > US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the
            > treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most commonly found
            > at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return
            > to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
            >
            > Giuliano


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • .Randy Powell
            I don t want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of great choices for boat building without using substandard home products. I have removed
            Message 5 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
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              I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of great choices for boat building without using substandard "home" products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70 years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only to have your boat rot out much quicker.
              Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few. Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the Mahogany's.
              No job is worth doing by half
              Randy
              --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:

              From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
              Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM






              While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
              treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
              chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
              epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.

              Has anyone tried this?

              David Jost
              "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
















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            • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
              Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important is care after build
              Message 6 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
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                Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany
                and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important
                is care after build in the life of a boat for the way the boat is
                built and of what. Wetboats need to be taken cate of differentlythen
                dry boats and system for building and sealing are also different.
                What works for one will shorten the life of the other.

                Jon

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of
                great choices for boat building without using substandard "home"
                products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70
                years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the
                only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and
                effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only
                to have your boat rot out much quicker.
                > Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you
                Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few.
                Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the
                Mahogany's.
                > No job is worth doing by half
                > Randy
                > --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
                > Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
              • .Randy Powell
                You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair, that said proper coatings,
                Message 7 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
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                  You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair, that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only traditional coatings.
                  Randy 
                  --- On Sat, 10/4/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:

                  From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                  Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 6:43 PM






                  Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany
                  and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important
                  is care after build in the life of a boat for the way the boat is
                  built and of what. Wetboats need to be taken cate of differentlythen
                  dry boats and system for building and sealing are also different.
                  What works for one will shorten the life of the other.

                  Jon

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@ ...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of
                  great choices for boat building without using substandard "home"
                  products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70
                  years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the
                  only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and
                  effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only
                  to have your boat rot out much quicker.
                  > Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you
                  Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few.
                  Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the
                  Mahogany's.
                  > No job is worth doing by half
                  > Randy
                  > --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@. ..> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: dnjost <davidjost@. ..>
                  > Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
                  > To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
                  > Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
















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                • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                  It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain where split
                  Message 8 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
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                    It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was
                    inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain
                    where split pritty bad. The paint was marine with a high copper bottom
                    paint but the bright work was all but gone. Sister ribs where poorly
                    done and rot not tepaired or stoped. Think how long it would have
                    lasted if taken care of properly rather then half way. There are
                    lightnings 50, 60 and nearly 70 years old in good shape.

                    Jon

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are
                    Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair,
                    that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping
                    your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that
                    would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only
                    traditional coatings.
                    > Randy 
                  • .Randy Powell
                    Jon, Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy??? Randy ... From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking? To:
                    Message 9 of 29 , Oct 6, 2008
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                      Jon,
                      Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy???
                      Randy

                      --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:

                      From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                      Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Received: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 12:33 AM






                      It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was
                      inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain
                      where split pritty bad. The paint was marine with a high copper bottom
                      paint but the bright work was all but gone. Sister ribs where poorly
                      done and rot not tepaired or stoped. Think how long it would have
                      lasted if taken care of properly rather then half way. There are
                      lightnings 50, 60 and nearly 70 years old in good shape.

                      Jon

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@ ...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are
                      Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair,
                      that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping
                      your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that
                      would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only
                      traditional coatings.
                      > Randy 
















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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                      Need to do some more work now that the days are getting shorter and I have more time. Need to do some updateing too.
                      Message 10 of 29 , Oct 6, 2008
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                        Need to do some more work now that the days are getting shorter and I
                        have more time. Need to do some updateing too.
                        http://www.flickr.com/photos/jons_boat_building/sets/72157602709911781
                        /

                        Jon


                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Jon,
                        > Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy???
                        > Randy
                        >
                        > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                        > Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
                        > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                        > Received: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 12:33 AM
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